Clear agreements in a Casual/P2P gambling is important to ensure fair gambling

[Cantsay]

Such a fun and dramatic experience but at the end of the day I learned that no matter how well we know someone too well, or even a friend or a brother we should always ensure that their money for the stake is given to a third party before any gamble is done. This is it to prevent argument and any person cheating and refusing to pay.

This is the reason why people turn to a middleman when they are doing anything that involves agreement like this or that involves people trading money or staking money between themselves. I don’t think I have a similar experience but if something like this had happened to me, it would depend on the amount and the person involved on what action I’d have taken.

The person in question probably trusted his ability on 8-balls that he thought he would never lost to you and thus the reason he went ahead to play with you but after realising that his opponent skill was beyond his he then went on with the “they didn’t stake anything trick” - but since you have learnt your lesson I believe you won’t make the mistake of playing against someone without first seeing the prize or handling the prize over to someone else for safe keeping or to guarantee that something like this doesn’t happen again.

[Coyster]

If you must gamble with someone without escrowing the funds, then it should be someone you completely trust and not just a random or casual friend. If you don't escrow funds when you gamble with strangers or casual pals, it is likely to end in quarrels, just as you found out, the loser might decide to default on the agreement and since it was just agreement through words of the mouth, then it is nothing concrete. One good lesson from this is that you now know that you should only gamble this way with people you completely trust.

[acroman08]

Unfortunately for the guy, I won him and he was supposed to pay. Then he refuses and said they did not stake anything. Everyone was surprised and refused to leave until he paid. It caused a lot of fight and arguments and a few people were injured then i have to leave the place.

HA! I've seen a number of these happening in my life and funnily enough it usually involves people gambling playing pool. anyway, sadly incidents like this are vound to happen especially if money is involves. luckily there weren't any serious injury. the ones I've seen, someone was needed to be rushed to the hospital because a guy used the pool stick a weapon and someone got hit in the head and wouldn't stop bleeding.

[Dave1]

Yesterday was a beautiful day hanging out with a friend. Just like any normal day, I would love to play the 8-ball pool. I was playing so well and i have won a lot of people even those who came to challenge a fair one. Not one guy challenged me on a bet, even on my refusal he insisted then my friend took up the challenge and they bet. The mistake i made was that I and the person there did not ensure that the money staked should be given to a middleman or brought out first before we continued the game. Unfortunately for the guy, I won him and he was supposed to pay. Then he refuses and said they did not stake anything. Everyone was surprised and refused to leave until he paid. It caused a lot of fight and arguments and a few people were injured then i have to leave the place.

Well if that happens in our place, for sure the person that didn't pay won't go out alive,  , just kidding. There could be at least a gentleman's agreement between the two of your and there are a lot of witnessed for sure that you and this guy have a bet in the line before the start of the game.

Shame on him, and again, if it is the case here, he could be ban in billiards from our place and his kind of attitude will be not tolerate as we all know that everyone knows everyone in pool or billiard and sooner or later no one is going to play against him, unless the money is with a middleman.

[TravelMug]

Yesterday was a beautiful day hanging out with a friend. Just like any normal day, I would love to play the 8-ball pool. I was playing so well and i have won a lot of people even those who came to challenge a fair one. Not one guy challenged me on a bet, even on my refusal he insisted then my friend took up the challenge and they bet. The mistake i made was that I and the person there did not ensure that the money staked should be given to a middleman or brought out first before we continued the game. Unfortunately for the guy, I won him and he was supposed to pay. Then he refuses and said they did not stake anything. Everyone was surprised and refused to leave until he paid. It caused a lot of fight and arguments and a few people were injured then i have to leave the place.

Such a fun and dramatic experience but at the end of the day I learned that no matter how well we know someone too well, or even a friend or a brother we should always ensure that their money for the stake is given to a third party before any gamble is done. This is it to prevent argument and any person cheating and refusing to pay.

In street gambling, you can always see this kind of person, maybe they think that they are superior than you and so he goes and play against you without putting money on the line. Yeah, it could be your mistake that you didn't put the stake money thru a middle man to avoid this kind of situation.

Just charge it to experience as they say, I have similar but it's a cock fighting, when the other side doesn't want to pay us that time. And they thought that we are rookie until one of my friends call his uncle who is a respected man in the cockpit and so those guys paid us immediately.

[Darker45]

Something like this is quite common here in my country also. That's why the rule should be money down before the match should even begin.
 
Pool is also a very common game here for betting. Many fights have taken place because of pool gambling. The problem, however, is that even if the bets from both parties are kept by a referee or a middleman, there will still be a lot of side bets. Those people watching the games are also bettors. These bettors don't have their bet money held by a middleman. That's why when a game is won, it can't be avoided that some won't pay.

[Fiatless]

Just charge it to experience as they say, I have similar but it's a cock fighting, when the other side doesn't want to pay us that time. And they thought that we are rookie until one of my friends call his uncle who is a respected man in the cockpit and so those guys paid us immediately.

This might be the reason why most of these unconventional gambling activities are organised or controlled by violent gang leaders. Most of these dreaded gangstas usually serve as escrows. Bettors cannot dispute or argue about lost bets because they are scared of these escrows. Most of these escrows receive some percentage of the bet, which is not a bad idea.

Something like this is quite common here in my country also. That's why the rule should be money down before the match should even begin.
 
Pool is also a very common game here for betting. Many fights have taken place because of pool gambling. The problem, however, is that even if the bets from both parties are kept by a referee or a middleman, there will still be a lot of side bets. Those people watching the games are also bettors. These bettors don't have their bet money held by a middleman. That's why when a game is won, it can't be avoided that some won't pay.

The only way to still handle the situation is to also have a middleman for side bets. Alternatively, it will be better to bet with only people you trust. In my neighbourhood, some gamblers are well-known for their dishonest attitude because have exhibited this attitude two or more times. Many people wouldn't dare to gamble with them unless there is an escrow.   

[xLays]

Something like this is quite common here in my country also. That's why the rule should be money down before the match should even begin.
 
Pool is also a very common game here for betting. Many fights have taken place because of pool gambling. The problem, however, is that even if the bets from both parties are kept by a referee or a middleman, there will still be a lot of side bets. Those people watching the games are also bettors. These bettors don't have their bet money held by a middleman. That's why when a game is won, it can't be avoided that some won't pay.

True, that's really common here in the Philippines. I think OP is also from the Philippines. This also often happens with public basketball game in the Philippines. I've experienced this several times, especially when you're playing away (Dayo) and there's no 'witness' (Kase) for the bet. After the game, it's almost always a scam (Estafa). We've learned our lesson, so the rule now is that the visiting (Dayo) team should hold the money. That's why fights often break out when people don't pay up after a bet.

[crwth]

People who encounter like that just means that the person didn’t want to take accountability for accepting the bet that he made. I think it’s fortunate for you that you won, but I think it would be the same if he won. Meaning he would want you to take up on it and you would lose money because of that.

I do think that the best way you could do it

[klidex]

Why didn't anyone there realize from the start that the person hadn't put out his money to place a bet? Isn't it mandatory for bettors to put out their money before starting the game to find out how much money they are betting? From what I see, it seems like the person just wants to play with you, pretending to challenge you to bet and then hoping to win and if you lose, the person will ask for your bet money, and luckily you win so the person can't ask for your money, but the funny thing is that he is shameless because he dares to challenge but doesn't accept losing and losing his money
It is important to always ask our opponents whether they are going to place a bet or not so as not to cause any misunderstandings in the end.

[davis196]

Yesterday was a beautiful day hanging out with a friend. Just like any normal day, I would love to play the 8-ball pool. I was playing so well and i have won a lot of people even those who came to challenge a fair one. Not one guy challenged me on a bet, even on my refusal he insisted then my friend took up the challenge and they bet. The mistake i made was that I and the person there did not ensure that the money staked should be given to a middleman or brought out first before we continued the game. Unfortunately for the guy, I won him and he was supposed to pay. Then he refuses and said they did not stake anything. Everyone was surprised and refused to leave until he paid. It caused a lot of fight and arguments and a few people were injured then i have to leave the place.

Such a fun and dramatic experience but at the end of the day I learned that no matter how well we know someone too well, or even a friend or a brother we should always ensure that their money for the stake is given to a third party before any gamble is done. This is it to prevent argument and any person cheating and refusing to pay.

Casual gambling attracts cheaters. Maybe that's why casinos(both local and online) are the most preferred way of gambling.
The casino sets the rules and the environment, so that the cheaters can't cheat the honest players.
By the way, gambling on skill based games(8-ball pool) seems like a stupid idea. I would bet money only on luck based games.
Even if there was a middleman in your case, are you sure that the middleman is trusted? What if the middleman is a friend of the other guy(the guy, who refused to pay). Casual gambling(outside a casino) is something I wouldn't do.

[_act_]

If you must gamble with someone without escrowing the funds, then it should be someone you completely trust and not just a random or casual friend. If you don't escrow funds when you gamble with strangers or casual pals, it is likely to end in quarrels, just as you found out, the loser might decide to default on the agreement and since it was just agreement through words of the mouth, then it is nothing concrete. One good lesson from this is that you now know that you should only gamble this way with people you completely trust.

What I will say is that even if you trust someone, you should not gamble with trust. Be it you trust the person or not, it is better to escrow the fund with a trusted person. The only time you may not decide to escrow the fund is when the person has something to lose. Example are two reputed members on this forum that is in $100 campaign that bet $100 each. They will not want to lose their reputation on this forum because of $100.

[Baofeng]

Something like this is quite common here in my country also. That's why the rule should be money down before the match should even begin.

Yep that is the number one rule in our country mate, and we have seen a lot of videos of Filipinos playing pool with a lot of wagers in the side, could be as high as million pesos per game.

Pool is also a very common game here for betting. Many fights have taken place because of pool gambling. The problem, however, is that even if the bets from both parties are kept by a referee or a middleman, there will still be a lot of side bets. Those people watching the games are also bettors. These bettors don't have their bet money held by a middleman. That's why when a game is won, it can't be avoided that some won't pay.

Yes, we have the GOAT in Efren Bata Reyes and so everyone of his is inspired by him to play and win big money too. But if ever you will be playing like in street corners, then at least the owner of that place is the one to be the middle man, or someone being trusted to hold the money and enforce the rule. No lay down money on the table, no game at all.

[Hirose UK]

What is quite surprising is trust other people or third parties to hold the betting money, if it is direct bet between players then the money can be brought by each and later given to the winner in the game.
This is ridiculous but I myself have never and will not do all that because it has the potential for various bad things to happen and can even cause disputes like what has happened and you have experienced.
Indeed, an agreement must be made from the start to be able to provide justice that can be obtained by both parties who bet money, they should be able to find better point of agreement for the sake of mutual comfort and security.
I sure it was pretty disappointing experience and made people who bet might not be able to accept it, but on the other hand it can provide valuable lesson not to repeat the same thing.

[Don Pedro Dinero]

<...> I won him and he was supposed to pay. Then he refuses and said they did not stake anything. Everyone was surprised and refused to leave until he paid. It caused a lot of fight and arguments and a few people were injured then i have to leave the place.

Such a fun and dramatic experience but at the end of the day I learned that no matter how well we know someone too well, or even a friend or a brother we should always ensure that their money for the stake is given to a third party before any gamble is done. This is it to prevent argument and any person cheating and refusing to pay.

I agree. The problem in those cases is that sometimes you bet with people of a certain confidence or friends and things like this happen, that people refuse to pay when they lose, although I haven't observed anything similar since I was quite young. Anyway, any bet of relative importance has to be made with a third party escrow as you say, to avoid these cases.

[ethereumhunter]

That is why we must know about the rules or other things before we playing gambling so we don't have to face a problem. If that is related to money, people can change easily and many times they will do something that we can not imagine because they want the money. Many things can happens in the offline casino especially if that is related to the money that we use to bet with other people so we must clear with the rules to prevents the thing you are experienced.

That will be our lesson too when we playing gambling in the offline casino so we will not involve in a bad situation. Although the chance still be there, we can minimize the bad thing that we can get and we don't have to get the problem. Besides that, you must get a trusty person who will hold the funds so we can make sure that the gambling will be fair to gamblers.

[lovesmayfamilis]

However, if your opponent had won, he would have demanded the winnings. Well, he would have put a cross on his reputation for a long time, and if this had happened in my country and the players were playing cards, then until the loser paid the debt, he would not have been allowed to live in peace. After all, everything happened in front of witnesses, right? Of course, when playing for money, it is necessary to prove that both players have the necessary amount, and it is better for a third party to have it. However, it is not at all manly to "hide your head in the sand," to be a coward, and not pay debts. Just understand and accept the OP; you were playing with a woman . And they can be forgiven for everything.

[Julien_Olynpic]

In any games between users, as well as in trading, for example, money must be in some kind of collateral, which will, so to speak, guarantee the availability of funds to execute the transaction. It almost never happens that someone pays money after the game, without even proving that he had money before the game. Although in general the phenomenon of games between users directly, bypassing a casino or bookmaker's office is very interesting. It shows that gambling is at the DNA level of a person. The desire to earn money, have fun and predict the future is what attracts people.

[Davidvictorson]

Such a fun and dramatic experience but at the end of the day I learned that no matter how well we know someone too well, or even a friend or a brother we should always ensure that their money for the stake is given to a third party before any gamble is done. This is it to prevent argument and any person cheating and refusing to pay.

If the person was an upright person with a good principle, they would know that such a behavior is totally unacceptable. I wouldn't blame you much because it was an informal setting and then we expect that people will be true to their words. If the reverse had been the case I guess that all hell would have been let loose. It is such a good lesson that you learned. Like the streets is dangerous and one must be streetwise. Maybe for the next time stick with formal gambling channels as it will save you the whole stress you had to put yourself through in your narration.

[Darker45]

Pool is also a very common game here for betting. Many fights have taken place because of pool gambling. The problem, however, is that even if the bets from both parties are kept by a referee or a middleman, there will still be a lot of side bets. Those people watching the games are also bettors. These bettors don't have their bet money held by a middleman. That's why when a game is won, it can't be avoided that some won't pay.

But if ever you will be playing like in street corners, then at least the owner of that place is the one to be the middle man, or someone being trusted to hold the money and enforce the rule. No lay down money on the table, no game at all.

If only there's a better way to do that, but it's next to impossible it seems. You've probably been to such kind of match and you've probably noticed how difficult it is to collect all bets and remember accurately which bet is from whom, how much is from which bettor, and whose money a bet is against. It also doesn't help that there are also handicap calls and even different odds. It is really hard to gather all the bets and match them properly.

I guess it can only be made possible if betting is to be centralized and bets are placed against the house or the operator. Even this design is hard to implement in reality.