How to maintain the seedphrase safely, so that no malicious person can find it?

[Forsyth Jones]

I'd like to know what strategies you use and if it's Ok for you to share.

We know that even if we use a passphrase to protect our wallet by creating a hidden wallet, we still have the challenge of hiding both the seedphrase and the passphrase that gives access to the hidden wallet.

If you keep both the seedphrase and the passphrase together, it is useless to use it since if someone finds these two items together, they will have no difficulty in accessing your hidden wallet.

The most obvious strategy is to store both items in completely geographically distinct places, such as:

Write down the seedphrase offline and the passphrase in a password manager like keepass, protected by a master password, but we would have to worry about how and where to store the master password safely, preferably offline.

Write down both the seedphrase and passphrase offline, but locally distinct.

Write down the seedphrase offline and memorize the passphrase, but we run the risk of losing the memory by accident or naturally losing the memory. Even more so if it is a very long and complex passphrase.

If there is no problem, I would like to hear what you have to think about how to solve this problem.

[Mia Chloe]

Yeah storing them in geographic regions that are far apart is a possible option. However what if one of the separated information gets destroyed or lost due to some natural disaster say something like a flood that recently happened in Bangladesh. There are different methods out there to store your seed phrase and buy the fact non is 100% safe. The best you could do is choose the one most suitable for you and I think you are good.

For me I suggest making use of probably 2 custom words that you can never forget, and if course those words should be clueless for people to guess. Using things like a pet name or your middle name may only jeopardize your funds more. As for memorising your seed phrase I don't really think it's going to be easy as not everyone has a sharp and retentive memory to remember random words vividly.

If you would agree with me, it would be easier to memorize custom words than the whole seed . Also remember that without your custom words, if someone gets hold of your seed they'll basically be getting a new wallet with zero funds that's the more reason those words need to b clueless.

[Hatchy]

I actually don't use a passphrase with my seed but then, from how I understand it's workings, since you literally are creating a hidden wallet by adding your passphrase. Then it's better to keep or store your seedphrase offline and the use a words only you can remember for the passphrase... Passphrase can be some combination of word you are usually used to or if you are using some randomly selected ones then it would be safer to store them using a password manager. But if the later, that is word you are sure to remember then you can memorize those words.

Write down the seedphrase offline and memorize the passphrase, but we run the risk of losing the memory by accident or naturally losing the memory. Even more so if it is a very long and complex passphrase.

If there is no problem, I would like to hear what you have to think about how to solve this problem.

I also had same taught but something a bit different. Would someone with lost memory even remember he owns Bitcoins? Or a wallet? Not talk more of a passphrase. So such situations would just be only lucky for such and would hope he remembers his memory..

[Churchillvv]

Write down both the seedphrase and passphrase offline, but locally distinct.

This is the best I can advise anyone to go for, if you use a steel plate or another tool to write down your seedphrase it would definitely be the hardest to find or break into if you're clever enough in keeping them.

Although I don't have enough bitcoin to be afraid that much so I just kept my seedphrase in a book which I kept in one of the safest place in my house but when I stack up enough, I plan to use this method of writing down both seed/pass phrase offline but locally distinct.

I saw this tool above and I feel it's best for me hence I will only have to drill a hole on my bed to put the tool into it.

Write down the seedphrase offline and memorize the passphrase, but we run the risk of losing the memory by accident or naturally losing the memory. Even more so if it is a very long and complex passphrase.

Naah this is probably the worst choice anyone can make in my own opinion.

[Amphenomenon]

Actually these practices just depends on how feasible it is to individuals, we have been given various solution on effectively storing and protecting our bitcoin but we ought to pick what is more feasible for us individually. Like me I don`t have a passphrase at the moment, though planning to have one later on, which would be a custom passphrase, that's really private about me, which does online and physical won't be able to get even if they unfortunately get hold of my seed phrase.

My reason for this is from the fact I don't want to have my seed phrase and passphrase offline especially from the fact that this seperation to geographically distinct region/places is not really feasible for me rather pose more risk of one being compromised easily I rather just store my seed phrase offline and then create a custom passphrase.

Yeah storing them in geographic regions that are far apart is a possible option. However what if one of the separated information gets destroyed or lost due to some natural disaster say something like a flood that recently happened in Bangladesh. There are different methods out there to store your seed phrase and buy the fact non is 100% safe. The best you could do is choose the one most suitable for you and I think you are good.

This is true but if this is feasible for the individual, having these store in a geographically distinct regions/places then they can still get a steal or titanium seed plates in order to avoid fire/water hazard for making them lose their seed phrase and passphrase back up, similar to the image provided by Churchillvv.

[Forsyth Jones]

For me I suggest making use of probably 2 custom words that you can never forget, and if course those words should be clueless for people to guess. Using things like a pet name or your middle name may only jeopardize your funds more. As for memorising your seed phrase I don't really think it's going to be easy as not everyone has a sharp and retentive memory to remember random words vividly.

If you would agree with me, it would be easier to memorize custom words than the whole seed . Also remember that without your custom words, if someone gets hold of your seed they'll basically be getting a new wallet with zero funds that's the more reason those words need to b clueless.

Let's say that if someone finds my mnemonic phrase of 12/24 words and thinks that I have a hidden wallet on top of that mnemonic phrase, he can create a script that uses dictionary words, depending on the language of the dictionary used and if my custom words are from the same language, if my wallet has only 2 custom words it will be broken in around 2 hours or a few years or centuries depending on the words used and the bits of entropy provided by it. So I don't think it's a good option.

It would be better to use 6 words or more to make it unfeasible for any scrypt to break.

You can use this website: https://www.useapassphrase.com/ to do word simulations, it can automatically generate words for you and will tell you the estimate of how long it can be broken, although the website says that the passwords are generated in the browser and are not saved or sent anywhere, this is not the best option, I would use keepass for desktop which has a similar option and is not browser-based. But you can use it for testing and to base yourself on.

[Hatchy]

It would be better to use 6 words or more to make it unfeasible for any scrypt to break.

You can use this website: https://www.useapassphrase.com/ to do word simulations, it can automatically generate words for you and will tell you the estimate of how long it can be broken, although the website says that the passwords are generated in the browser and are not saved or sent anywhere, this is not the best option, I would use keepass for desktop which has a similar option and is not browser-based. But you can use it for testing and to base yourself on.

I'll prefer using a random combination and even a lengthy one at that, it will reduce the risk of the words being found by random scripts or word generators. I find it hard to trust these word generators though as not all of them can be trusted...

[pooya87]

Just using a physical/hard backup of the seed phrase is eliminating a lot of attack vectors by cutting the access to the internet (it is physical after all). That is the method I use as well. However, I never bothered adding a passphrase on top since my assumption is if someone can gain access to my physical backup (in my home) they can do a lot more like the "$5 wrench attack"!

You can use this website: https://www.useapassphrase.com/ to do word simulations, it can automatically generate words for you and will tell you the estimate of how long it can be broken

Although the estimates are decent, the logic sounds a bit weird to me. It assumes a fixed 10,000 guesses per second whereas this number can be wildly different depending on the algorithm. Not to mention that there is a significant difference between things like scrypt and PBKDF2 algorithms that they use in their assumption.

In addition the number is going to be a lot less in bitcoin context for brute forcing BIP-39 passphrase that has more unknown variables (eg. the derivation path and address type) and longer steps. Generally it includes 2048 rounds of PBKDF2 + 1 HMACSHA512 + unknown number of (HMACSHA512+ECMULT) depending on the unknown derivation path + a last ECMULT to derive the public key and HASH160 to derive the address(es) for comparison.

[NotATether]

Your options are to engrave the mnemonic phrase in metal using some system like steel washers, and writing it down on a piece of paper but putting it inside some water-proof box. I am not sure if the latter exists, but it is just a theory of mine. Since something like a safe is impractical for storing a seed and most people don't have one.

Of course you can also hide it in your house but somewhere very high where water can't reach.

[nc50lc]

I'd like to know what strategies you use and if it's Ok for you to share.

Tattoo you seed phrase or BIP39 passphrase on your crotch area.
That way, only the tattoo artist or your partner would see it. (unless you're a stripper)
DIY if you don't want to involve trust in the process  

If there is no problem, I would like to hear what you have to think about how to solve this problem.

If there's no problem, there's no problem to solve. what gives?

Joking aside, you may also keep a copy of your safely encrypted wallet file backup in a flash drive stored somewhere else.
Having a strong password to protect the wallet's keys is good but it's better to encrypt it for disguise, any reputable open-source archive tool with AES encryption option is effective enough but you can be creative as long as you have other backups to rely on.

Since there's no foolproof plan on keeping your backups safe, you'll need to diversify it in order to have better success of recovery in case of a fire or flood.

[satscraper]

I'd like to know what strategies you use and if it's Ok for you to share.

My pleasure to share the technique used by me  to keep my SEED phrase safely on digital media namely on SD cards or flash drives ^{(your choice)}. Even this media fall into malicious  actor's clutches he would not be liable to get to SEED.  Besides of this, my media with SEED  can be be easily cloned and geographically distributed.  Feel free to reap the advantages of such method.

[Frankolala]

Yeah storing them in geographic regions that are far apart is a possible option. However what if one of the separated information gets destroyed or lost due to some natural disaster say something like a flood that recently happened in Bangladesh. There are different methods out there to store your seed phrase and buy the fact non is 100% safe. The best you could do is choose the one most suitable for you and I think you are good.

This is why you should have the three duplicate of your custom words and your seed phrase each so that if one of them is damage, you will still have access to them.

For me I suggest making use of probably 2 custom words that you can never forget, and if course those words should be clueless for people to guess. Using things like a pet name or your middle name may only jeopardize your funds more. As for memorising your seed phrase I don't really think it's going to be easy as not everyone has a sharp and retentive memory to remember random words vividly.

If you would agree with me, it would be easier to memorize custom words than the whole seed . Also remember that without your custom words, if someone gets hold of your seed they'll basically be getting a new wallet with zero funds that's the more reason those words need to b clueless.

Accident can affect your memory and you might forget the words no matter how few the alphabets are because it is not one or two words but for 12 words. Human can also forget it easily because it is not what you need daily to have access to somewhere. Seed phrase are being checked on once a while. This is why I think writing it down on a piece of paper or steel plate and keep the passphrase separate from the seed phrase  is safe.

[knowngunman]

I'd like to know what strategies you use and if it's Ok for you to share.

My pleasure to share the technique used by me  to keep my SEED phrase safely on digital media namely on SD cards or flash drives ^{(your choice)}. Even this media fall into malicious  actor's clutches he would not be liable to get to SEED.  Besides of this, my media with SEED  can be be easily cloned and geographically distributed.  Feel free to reap the advantages of such method.

I haven't try saving seed phrase in flash drives or SD card but I have used both of these for another purpose, I don't see it as better option to store something as valuable as wallet seed phrase. I remember during my undergraduate days, I used flash drives to store some project materials but unfortunately I couldn't access the files anymore when I needed it. It was completely corrupt and displaying error formats until I have to format the flash but lost every document it contains. I don't know if you are referring to a different flash drives other than the one I know. The same goes to SD card especially if kept for long without using it. I will rather go with Op methods than using any of either flash or SD card. I read through your other thread and it's educative thou.

[nakamura12]

Have you tried storing your seed phrase like storing it the way you store things in your house?. Writing your seed phrase is very simple and doesn't require lots of money to keep it safe and you can even try to make a puzzle out of it like if you solve the puzzle you will get the seed phrase and of course, you are the only one who knows it. Saving it in flash drives also okay in my opinion as long as it is never connected to the Internet not even a second in order to avoid it being leaked or taken online where you can only open it in a device that's not connected to the Internet and use other device to connect the wallet if you want to access it.

[libert19]

I have my things wrapped up in an offline password manager, with password stored in my brain, I don't think I'll forget this password and it's equivalently hard to guess — that if someone somehow can get access to backup files; if memory becomes weak to remember this password then it'll be probably be time to die anyway, but if there are symptoms beforehand necessary arrangements will be made.

[dzungmobile]

I have my things wrapped up in an offline password manager, with password stored in my brain, I don't think I'll forget this password and it's equivalently hard to guess — that if someone somehow can get access to backup files; if memory becomes weak to remember this password then it'll be probably be time to die anyway, but if there are symptoms beforehand necessary arrangements will be made.

Remember your passwords by brain and memory, is only possible if you have one, two or very few passwords. If you have many passwords, how do you remember them all by memory.

I agree that with very important accounts, it makes sense to back up the passwords in different methods, on paper, in password manager application and of course our brain, but as said, it's impossible (I am sure) for you to remember all your passwords.

If your practice is like small differences at start or end of your passwords to make it more easily memorable, it's risky practice and not recommended.

[libert19]

I have my things wrapped up in an offline password manager, with password stored in my brain, I don't think I'll forget this password and it's equivalently hard to guess — that if someone somehow can get access to backup files; if memory becomes weak to remember this password then it'll be probably be time to die anyway, but if there are symptoms beforehand necessary arrangements will be made.

Remember your passwords by brain and memory, is only possible if you have one, two or very few passwords. If you have many passwords, how do you remember them all by memory.

I agree that with very important accounts, it makes sense to back up the passwords in different methods, on paper, in password manager application and of course our brain, but as said, it's impossible (I am sure) for you to remember all your passwords.

That's true, that's why you use password managers, put your all data there, and take care of that one password dear to your heart.

[Taskford]

I have my things wrapped up in an offline password manager, with password stored in my brain, I don't think I'll forget this password and it's equivalently hard to guess — that if someone somehow can get access to backup files; if memory becomes weak to remember this password then it'll be probably be time to die anyway, but if there are symptoms beforehand necessary arrangements will be made.

Remember your passwords by brain and memory, is only possible if you have one, two or very few passwords. If you have many passwords, how do you remember them all by memory.

I agree that with very important accounts, it makes sense to back up the passwords in different methods, on paper, in password manager application and of course our brain, but as said, it's impossible (I am sure) for you to remember all your passwords.

If your practice is like small differences at start or end of your passwords to make it more easily memorable, it's risky practice and not recommended.

I find it risky its because for sure there would be a time that provably we will forgot our password if we do that. There are lots of things we do online and lots of platforms we register to access their site so provably those situation could contribute that we will get confused on all the password we use. Then with that the problem provably will start since there's huge chance that this might be the reason on why we lose our wallets with those cases.

They could just write their seedphrase on piece of paper or notebook. If they are doubting that people could still see it, then maybe they should create a poem then insert those codes there and make it looks like they are cracking a code for sure this will be hard to identify especially to people doesn't have an idea about what you are doing.

[dzungmobile]

That's true, that's why you use password managers, put your all data there, and take care of that one password dear to your heart.

Only one or two or very few super important passwords.

I find it risky its because for sure there would be a time that provably we will forgot our password if we do that. There are lots of things we do online and lots of platforms we register to access their site so provably those situation could contribute that we will get confused on all the password we use.

As clearly said, brain back up is a supplementary method, and should not the only one or main one.

Risk of accidental brain and memory damage is not small and surely we should never rely on it and put all our fund safety to our brain and memory.

Some good advice on passwords from Antonopoulos.
Crypto Security: Passwords and Authentication

[cryptoWODL]

I have my things wrapped up in an offline password manager, with password stored in my brain, I don't think I'll forget this password and it's equivalently hard to guess — that if someone somehow can get access to backup files; if memory becomes weak to remember this password then it'll be probably be time to die anyway, but if there are symptoms beforehand necessary arrangements will be made.

Remember your passwords by brain and memory, is only possible if you have one, two or very few passwords. If you have many passwords, how do you remember them all by memory.

I agree that with very important accounts, it makes sense to back up the passwords in different methods, on paper, in password manager application and of course our brain, but as said, it's impossible (I am sure) for you to remember all your passwords.

If your practice is like small differences at start or end of your passwords to make it more easily memorable, it's risky practice and not recommended.

Yes it is true how a person can memorize his password maybe he can forget anytime, human is not a robot who will have everything set in his brain. Securing the crypto wallet is an important responsibility of every crypto enthusiast and investor because if he does not keep his wallet seed phrase properly secured then it can be easily accessed by malicious persons.

Instead of memorizing the wallet seed phrase, we can store it securely on paper or in a password manager software application. When we store our passwords in Password Manager, it uses strong encryption algorithms that help keep passwords more secure. So I don't want to support people who decide to memorize passwords.