Bitcoin would have averted this painful loss, shame on fiat

[Call_Me_Guru]

Bitcoin is boss, not by mouth only, you see what fiat cost that innocent guy trying to do a legitimate trading business. His money was useless for him by fiat bank arrangement, no one knows where the actual fault came from due to too many parties involvement and the banks will do it authoritatively, they set the price and charges as they like on your own money. This can't happen with Bitcoin, all transactions are transparent, you can easily know where the fault comes from and less than $0.3 will complete the transaction in minutes.

The bank transfer must have delayed his transaction for at least two days only to realize that almost €100 was charged for transferring €1,000 to the beneficiary account. Fiat is just silly, banks are crook and feeding fat on people's money.

[Ever-young]

There are also some common mistakes that happen when carrying out bitcoin transactions using the wrong wallet or when you, as the sender, don't understand what you are doing.
 
I have read in this forum and also in other places where some people overpay transaction fees as a result of using a faulty wallet or trying to customise their fee and end up spending an amount that is even higher than what they are sending out.
 
I'm not trying to justify what the bank did, but most times we can also check from both sides as the mistake is yet to be identified. The cause could be the sender's fault, or it could also be that of the bank app used. If it's a bitcoin transaction, with the transparency of the system, you can identify where the money went to (the wallet), but what you can't identify is who the owner of the wallet is, and you can't also reverse that transaction as the money can also be considered lost forever.

[MeGold666]

If you want your transfer on Bitcoin to be finished with the same speed as wire transfer, you will have to pay similar amount in network fees

Just look at the high fees people are paying:

https://mempool.space/

[Apocollapse]

Of course Bitcoin is good for cross border payments and big transaction, but for small amount and multiple times aren't worth.

but what you can't identify is who the owner of the wallet is, and you can't also reverse that transaction as the money can also be considered lost forever.

Those two are good thing.

I don't see both of them as the disadvantages of Bitcoin, there's no need to know who own the wallet and able to reverse transaction is bad, it provide zero guarantee if the money belong to us or it will revert back to the sender.

[MeGold666]

Of course Bitcoin is good for cross border payments and big transaction, but for small amount and multiple times aren't worth.

but what you can't identify is who the owner of the wallet is, and you can't also reverse that transaction as the money can also be considered lost forever.

Those two are good thing.

I don't see both of them as the disadvantages of Bitcoin, there's no need to know who own the wallet and able to reverse transaction is bad, it provide zero guarantee if the money belong to us or it will revert back to the sender.

RBF can be facilitated to reverse the transaction if the recipient does not wait for the confirmation and wallets can be easily identified if you're not computer savvy and your OpSec is not PERFECT.

[Ever-young]

Those two are good thing.

I don't see both of them as the disadvantages of Bitcoin, there's no need to know who own the wallet and able to reverse transaction is bad, it provide zero guarantee if the money belong to us or it will revert back to the sender.

I also don't see them as disadvantages either, as it's part of the good features of Bitcoin. I was just trying to correct the OP that if such a mistake happens on the Bitcoin network, you can only trace the flow of the fund, but there is literally nothing that could be done to get them back or know who to contact to ask for the refund.

RBF can be facilitated to reverse the transaction if the recipient does not wait for the confirmation and wallets can be easily identified if you're not computer savvy and your OpSec is not PERFECT.

I don't consider that as a reverse  but as transaction being cancelled; if the sender discovers it before the transaction is being confirmed, it's easier to solve that issue, but not when it has already undergone some confirmation. Even if it's just 1 confirmation, there is literally nothing that can be done about it.

My own definition of reverse is if the coin gets to the designated address and then you initiate a sendback, which will then bring back the coin from the wallet, which receives it back to the sender's address. Such things happen with bitcoin; they are only common on Altcoin, where the contract developer has such revoke access. 

[m2017]

Bitcoin is boss, not by mouth only, you see what fiat cost that innocent guy trying to do a legitimate trading business. His money was useless for him by fiat bank arrangement, no one knows where the actual fault came from due to too many parties involvement and the banks will do it authoritatively, they set the price and charges as they like on your own money. This can't happen with Bitcoin, all transactions are transparent, you can easily know where the fault comes from and less than $0.3 will complete the transaction in minutes.

Is it really true that something like this can't happen with bitcoin?

I paid as a fee over 0,7 btc. I can see the wallet address it was sent to. But i do not know how to find out who confirmed this transaction and who got this fee. Is there any way I can try to return it and how? 

The bank transfer must have delayed his transaction for at least two days only to realize that almost €100 was charged for transferring €1,000 to the beneficiary account. Fiat is just silly, banks are crook and feeding fat on people's money.

The traditional banking system is not perfect (note, before the advent of bitcoin you all silently used this system) and the world has not abandoned this system yet. But bitcoin too has its shortcomings. You somehow quickly forgot about last year (or so) of BTC-mempool load and the resulting transaction delays and high fees. You should not overestimate bitcoin, as well as underestimate fiat, but rather take a realistic look at existing financial instruments and use the advantages of this (having leveled out the disadvantages by using alternative solutions).

[MeGold666]

RBF can be facilitated to reverse the transaction if the recipient does not wait for the confirmation and wallets can be easily identified if you're not computer savvy and your OpSec is not PERFECT.

I don't consider that as a reverse  but as transaction being cancelled; if the sender discovers it before the transaction is being confirmed, it's easier to solve that issue, but not when it has already undergone some confirmation. Even if it's just 1 confirmation, there is literally nothing that can be done about it.

With RBF Bitcoin has lost capability of 0-conf transactions but with it's long queue and transactions dropping due to too long waiting time it wouldn't make sense anyway.
0-conf would work only if the scalability issues were fixed on L1 like with the dynamic block size that adjusts to the network demand.
Then we could have fast and cheap transactions on Bitcoin and it's adoption would probably skyrocket due to usage.

[Zaguru12]

The traditional banking system is not perfect (note, before the advent of bitcoin you all silently used this system) and the world has not abandoned this system yet. But bitcoin too has its shortcomings. You somehow quickly forgot about last year (or so) of BTC-mempool load and the resulting transaction delays and high fees. You should not overestimate bitcoin, as well as underestimate fiat, but rather take a realistic look at existing financial instruments and use the advantages of this (having leveled out the disadvantages by using alternative solutions).

I often see people totally discrediting the fiat currency or the bank system I know we all must have had a very terrible experience from this traditional banks but I will say they have some times I prefer to use them over bitcoin as at then it will be easier and that’s why we say bitcoin is an alternative to it and not to take over from it, although bitcoin edges over it way more to me.

But regarding this particular Situation bitcoin can never be like this, this a situation where the bank charges the fees without his prior knowledge which is very wrong. On bitcoin network you fees are what you set by yourself when you see excessive fees then it is usually the human error of the sender, no miner can take more than your fee. Look at the the price example you brought it was the sender that used 0.7bitcoin as fees

If you want your transfer on Bitcoin to be finished with the same speed as wire transfer, you will have to pay similar amount in network fees

Just look at the high fees people are paying:

https://mempool.space/

€100 is the fee charged there, this is not usually common with bitcoin although on some occasions when there is congestion we get this kind of fees but not right now. A $1 will get your confirmation into the next block if it is one input one output transaction

[Cryptohygenic]

And most annoying part about wiring with the fiats is that the bank you are sending from have their transaction fees and so also the bank you are sending from would also charge you.
And atoat cases, these charges would be taking the fund owner unaware that is to say the bank is not even negotiating with you, they adjust and takes whatever amount from your own hard earned money like the money is a general one. No wonder it is called a central financial system which means you work, earns and stil, you are limited to your funds custody unlike bitcoin which you have all right to decide what happens to your funds and you can always make your transactions within the sender and the receiver on self moderated.

[o48o]

Bitcoin is boss, not by mouth only, you see what fiat cost that innocent guy trying to do a legitimate trading business. His money was useless for him by fiat bank arrangement, no one knows where the actual fault came from due to too many parties involvement and the banks will do it authoritatively, they set the price and charges as they like on your own money. This can't happen with Bitcoin, all transactions are transparent, you can easily know where the fault comes from and less than $0.3 will complete the transaction in minutes.

The bank transfer must have delayed his transaction for at least two days only to realize that almost €100 was charged for transferring €1,000 to the beneficiary account. Fiat is just silly, banks are crook and feeding fat on people's money.

More like shame on that bank who too the fee. You wouldn't blame bitcoin for big fees if a cex you withdrawn it from wanted €100 for the transaction either.

But i guess that it's a good selling point that you will always need some kind of bank that takes a fee when you send fiat money. It's just not often that much, depending where you are sending it to and from what kind of account. And sure, sending it from your own wallet is cheaper than with banks any day.

And selling point for fiat money on the other hand is that banks have lots of more safety measures in place, than one person without any tech skills could provide for themselves.

[AmoreJaz]

And most annoying part about wiring with the fiats is that the bank you are sending from have their transaction fees and so also the bank you are sending from would also charge you.
And atoat cases, these charges would be taking the fund owner unaware that is to say the bank is not even negotiating with you, they adjust and takes whatever amount from your own hard earned money like the money is a general one. No wonder it is called a central financial system which means you work, earns and stil, you are limited to your funds custody unlike bitcoin which you have all right to decide what happens to your funds and you can always make your transactions within the sender and the receiver on self moderated.

This is why if an ordinary people start learning the world of crypto, they will be amazed of what benefits it can bring to them especially with transaction fees and its speed. They will appreciate this market as fiat transactions are really becoming expensive and would require a lot of documents if you try to send high amount of money to other people especially with cross-border payments.

As people who are here in the forum already experienced the swiftness of crypto transactions, they just wish that it is also true with fiat payments. For those noncrypto users, they won't understand this market up until they tried creating their first transaction. The first transaction is usually the make or break for any person.

[Sandra_hakeem]

Bitcoin is boss, not by mouth only, you see what fiat cost that innocent guy trying to do a legitimate trading business. His money was useless for him by fiat bank arrangement, no one knows where the actual fault came from due to too many parties involvement and the banks will do it authoritatively, they set the price and charges as they like on your own money.

That's a big lie! There's always a middleman in every transaction from the host bank to another bank (if need arises) . In this case, according to the scraps of information about the case, this wasn't a bank to bank transfer so HTF were they not able to trace where the fault was from?

The bank transfer must have delayed his transaction for at least two days only to realize that almost €100 was charged for transferring €1,000 to the beneficiary account. Fiat is just silly, banks are crook and feeding fat on people's money.

A beneficiary account? This is a different case... I think there's a complication somewhere; €100 can't be surcharged for a transaction of €1000... The fiat system has never operated without compliant.  Sometimes when I decide to fill out the withdrawal slips in the bank, the number of people queuing up, waiting for the customer care rep to attend to their diverse cases is enough to tell anyone the truth.
He should just visit and make a complain in his local bank or better still, call on their hotline.

[Ambatman]

TBH never experienced such in case of such large fee
Though banks may delay transactions due to various issue
It could be easily resolved though strenuous sometimes if it comes from the side of the Bank.
Why are you so sure the issue isn't from the broker fusion market and I would like to know the method to transfer Bitcoin of €1K euro for a fee of $0.3.
This would help solve Bitcoin scalabilty issue (I'm definitely been sarcastic)

Now where Bitcoin shine here is the transparency
You can check fee, who received and when.

[coolcoinz]

This reminds me of a situation I've experienced in person. I used to write texts and translate stuff and one contractor wanted to pay me $500 for a job and sent me the money through paypal, but when I got the money it was only $470 or something like that, which used to be a large hit for me. Maybe for many of yo $30 isn't a big deal, but back in the day when I was studying, I'd spend $10 a day on groceries, so $30 was a big deal. For instance, a cinema ticket was $10 and you'd pay $3 for a beer in a pub. They wouldn't charge the guy that paid me, he thought he was sending me $500, but they'd for some reason charge me, the recipient.

Have you ever wondered why banks charge you so much money for exchanging foreign currency? Why their rates are always so much worse than what private exchanges offer? Why does it take 5% or something like that for moving money abroad? What if you have a million to move abroad? Why do you have to pay them your yearly wage to do it if it's just numbers on a server?

[Z-tight]

If you make a post like this, you should give us the context, posting an image is not enough and i don't really know the full story behind the image you posted. Was it a domestic or an international wire transfer? And i don't think the customer should have been charged as high as that, and even the customer rep said the same thing.

Fiat is just silly, banks are crook and feeding fat on people's money.

Calm down, BTC tx's can also be very high sometimes, just like a few months ago when ordinals and runes tx's were 'spamming' the network. I am pro BTC, but you can't deny that all of us still have bank accounts to our names, and we use it.

[adaseb]

I;ve had similar issues also with bank transfers. In my opinion the worst is a bank wire because you need to pay a fee both ways. You pay to send this type of wire and you also pay to receive a bank wire. So if you are sending a small amount, like less than $10K, then its a huge fee. There is no avoiding that. Honestly best never to send any small wires.

Similar situation in bitcoin. When fees are high, its also not wise to send any small amounts. Right now fees are low but there are times when you end up paying $10 just to send a single UTXO. And Ethereum is worst at times. I remember during the conjestion days having to spend $50 just to move 1 stablecoin. And their onchain swaps were worst, when I had to pay $75-$100 just for a simple ETH-USDT trade.

[jrrsparkles]

Let me tell you some facts about bitcoin aka be your own bank, we humans more often tends to make mistakes and with bitcoin people can often pay wrong amount and especially there are multiple cases the users paid million dollars in the fee itself due to simple fault from their wallet or due to their own ignorance. And I am telling you this just to make my point the reason of bitcoin existence is much bigger than the banking issues that can delay the payments, its against the whole system and who are in control of it.

[Stepstowealth]

Let me tell you some facts about bitcoin aka be your own bank, we humans more often tends to make mistakes and with bitcoin people can often pay wrong amount and especially there are multiple cases the users paid million dollars in the fee itself due to simple fault from their wallet or due to their own ignorance. And I am telling you this just to make my point the reason of bitcoin existence is much bigger than the banking issues that can delay the payments, its against the whole system and who are in control of it.

People still make losses in bitcoin, losses is not just secluded to fiats. If someone is obviously not careful with crypto transactions, they can make costly mistakes, and what makes it bad is that usually when a mistake has been made, it is irreversible and costly.  New crypto investors need to be sure of self-custody because it has it's risk too. Some people have made some mistakes in bitcoin that made them regret investing in it, know mistakes so you avoid them.

[Ojima-ojo]

RBF can be facilitated to reverse the transaction if the recipient does not wait for the confirmation and wallets can be easily identified if you're not computer savvy and your OpSec is not PERFECT.

I don't consider that as a reverse  but as transaction being cancelled; if the sender discovers it before the transaction is being confirmed, it's easier to solve that issue, but not when it has already undergone some confirmation. Even if it's just 1 confirmation, there is literally nothing that can be done about it.

With RBF Bitcoin has lost capability of 0-conf transactions but with it's long queue and transactions dropping due to too long waiting time it wouldn't make sense anyway.
0-conf would work only if the scalability issues were fixed on L1 like with the dynamic block size that adjusts to the network demand.
Then we could have fast and cheap transactions on Bitcoin and it's adoption would probably skyrocket due to usage.

I believe on the long run bitcoin can offer zero transactions fees and faster transactions speeds only then will bitcoin represent what you taking it to be as a replacement of fiat in terms of Cross Border transactions, until that happens, we have to keep the wait on and accept the fact that many pays higher fees than just that 100 euros paid on that transactions.

Although we have what we call double charges on a transactions which is what probably happen with this transactions which can happen also with bitcoin if the sender is not professional and careful enough.