Second chance for mixers?

[bitmover]

I would not be surprised if Altcoinstalks owners/operators take a similar decision to theymos with regards to banning mixer but it seems highly unlikely now for two reasons. First is because the so-called crypto friendly US administration are making decisions. Second is because if they wanted to ban mixers they probably would have done it around the same time but they did not. As a precaution, the owners/operators might consider a ban on mixers or at least keep their options open.

That site wouldn't have any active users if not for allowing them to advertise mixers after Bitcointalk banned them.

I agree with LoyceV. That would probably kill altcoinstalks.

Forum has much smaller activity. SEO is basically inexistant (you can't find any topic in google searches), so organic traffic is very low.

 I like that forum, but it is a much smaller forum which can't afford to lose those advertisers now. I see no reason to do that. Specially now with Trump administration which will probably has a more friendly environment for mixers. lets see...

[Bitcoin_Arena]

I would not be surprised if Altcoinstalks owners/operators take a similar decision to theymos with regards to banning mixer but it seems highly unlikely now for two reasons. First is because the so-called crypto friendly US administration are making decisions. Second is because if they wanted to ban mixers they probably would have done it around the same time but they did not. As a precaution, the owners/operators might consider a ban on mixers or at least keep their options open.

In fact after the mixer ban here, I believe they tried to make it more accommodative to the new users who were joining it. It was an opportunity to increase the traffic over there and i think there was a change in the traffic stats in the following months.

The only way I would see them banning the mixer would be on the request by the law enforcement or some lawsuit threats.

[nutildah]

Specially now with Trump administration which will probably has a more friendly environment for mixers. lets see...

I don't think the US government - any part of it - will ever be "good" with crypto laundry services that accept coins from hacks associated with the Lazarus Group. To a lesser extent, I would also add to this list any large-scale thefts from ransomware services, exchange hacks, DeFi exploits, etc. Basically any time a no-KYC service operator accepts coins from a hack or theft, they will be scrutinized by US law enforcement, even if language against them has been toned down recently.

[JollyGood]

I tend to agree with you. It seems as though they have embraced the mixers advertising on their platform because it helped bring a new wave of members to their forum. They also would probably ban mixers if they thought it could bring negative attention to their forum.

In fact after the mixer ban here, I believe they tried to make it more accommodative to the new users who were joining it. It was an opportunity to increase the traffic over there and i think there was a change in the traffic stats in the following months.

The only way I would see them banning the mixer would be on the request by the law enforcement or some lawsuit threats.

[Synchronice]

I would not be surprised if Altcoinstalks owners/operators take a similar decision to theymos with regards to banning mixer but it seems highly unlikely now for two reasons. First is because the so-called crypto friendly US administration are making decisions. Second is because if they wanted to ban mixers they probably would have done it around the same time but they did not. As a precaution, the owners/operators might consider a ban on mixers or at least keep their options open.

That site wouldn't have any active users if not for allowing them to advertise mixers after Bitcointalk banned them.

I agree with LoyceV. That would probably kill altcoinstalks.

Forum has much smaller activity. SEO is basically inexistant (you can't find any topic in google searches), so organic traffic is very low.

 I like that forum, but it is a much smaller forum which can't afford to lose those advertisers now. I see no reason to do that. Specially now with Trump administration which will probably has a more friendly environment for mixers. lets see...

Will Trump really have a more friendl environment for mixers? I can't imagine that because that's basically government saying no to the ownership of money. They can't become friendly towards mixers because this means becoming friendly towards unregulated business. In the best case, they'll remain silent and ignore mixers but another question is, if media allows that to happen.

Altcoinstalks is a very small forum. At the moment they are small enough to not cause attention but if they caught another mixer and include altcoinstalks in reference like they did with Bitcointalk, then they'll have to think twice or the decision will be taken with consequences.

[LoyceV]

I can't imagine that because that's basically government saying no to the ownership of money. They can't become friendly towards mixers because this means becoming friendly towards unregulated business. In the best case, they'll remain silent and ignore mixers but another question is, if media allows that to happen.

They're unable to stop all mixers, so their existence is a given. What if they'll use this to create a few honeypot mixers?

[Lucius]

They're unable to stop all mixers, so their existence is a given. What if they'll use this to create a few honeypot mixers?

Who says they haven't done that a long time ago? Realistically, such a service could be an ideal tool for what "no such agency" has been doing for over 10 years when it comes to BTC. The goal is always the same, to convince someone that they are improving their privacy, while on the other hand they are actually losing it.

[bitmover]

Specially now with Trump administration which will probably has a more friendly environment for mixers. lets see...

I don't think the US government - any part of it - will ever be "good" with crypto laundry services that accept coins from hacks associated with the Lazarus Group.

Well. I don't think mixers and  kyc-free exchanges are crypto laundry services. They can be used like that, but they are not this.

It is the same as saying cars are a banking robbing machine. They can be used to do that, but that is not the best definition of a car.

I think that those coins associated to hacks shouldn't be accepted by any service. They should be immediately confiscated and donated to open source projects or other causes, like eXch did.

[LoyceV]

The goal is always the same, to convince someone that they are improving their privacy, while on the other hand they are actually losing it.

mixer.gov

[nutildah]

Well. I don't think mixers and  kyc-free exchanges are crypto laundry services. They can be used like that, but they are not this.

It is the same as saying cars are a banking robbing machine. They can be used to do that, but that is not the best definition of a car.

I see what you're saying, but cars don't face a moral quandry as to whether or not they should help the bank robber. They just do as their told, which makes them more similar to something like Thorchain, to continue the analogy.

I think that those coins associated to hacks shouldn't be accepted by any service.

This part I'm in agreement with, and its possible that some exchanges/mixers/etc. don't even realize they are laundering hacked/stolen funds before its too late.

[bitmover]

I think that those coins associated to hacks shouldn't be accepted by any service.

This part I'm in agreement with, and its possible that some exchanges/mixers/etc. don't even realize they are laundering hacked/stolen funds before its too late.

I agree.

Hackers are too quick and they probably are able to move the funds and send to those services even before authorities realize.

Maybe AI, automatic bots and automatic  warnings could make those services react faster.

However, I don't see much discussions about that. Just kyc, seized services  etc  

[joker_josue]

I think that those coins associated to hacks shouldn't be accepted by any service.

This part I'm in agreement with, and its possible that some exchanges/mixers/etc. don't even realize they are laundering hacked/stolen funds before its too late.

I agree.

Hackers are too quick and they probably are able to move the funds and send to those services even before authorities realize.

Maybe AI, automatic bots and automatic  warnings could make those services react faster.

However, I don't see much discussions about that. Just kyc, seized services  etc  

Unless there is information sharing between all platforms, it is virtually impossible to block funds everywhere after a hack alert.

First, the hack is rarely detected minutes after it happens, it usually takes a few hours to be detected.
Even when it is detected almost immediately, it will still take a few hours before the information reaches all possible platforms for thieves to use.

In addition, I still think that on the dark net there will be much more efficient mixer services than the ones that are widely known.

The problem is when the focus is on the tool used, instead of being the bad guy.

They made an analogy with the car, but the most appropriate is the train. The bandit robs a bank and escapes, gets on a train to go far away. Let's blame the train company, because it transported a bandit.

[JollyGood]

Hackers mostly seem to be one step ahead, that is why they are very successful when they hack. I doubt hackers would steal funds unless they already decided how to move the funds around and that is where mixers form an essential part of their planning. A scary thought about AI is what would happen if hackers start using it help them break in to systems deemed secure.

Thankfully we do not hear news about hacks taking place every week but when they are announced, it is clear hackers are getting away phenomenal amounts of money.

I agree.

Hackers are too quick and they probably are able to move the funds and send to those services even before authorities realize.

Maybe AI, automatic bots and automatic  warnings could make those services react faster.

However, I don't see much discussions about that. Just kyc, seized services  etc  

[EarnOnVictor]

I would not be surprised if Altcoinstalks owners/operators take a similar decision to theymos with regards to banning mixer but it seems highly unlikely now for two reasons. First is because the so-called crypto friendly US administration are making decisions. Second is because if they wanted to ban mixers they probably would have done it around the same time but they did not. As a precaution, the owners/operators might consider a ban on mixers or at least keep their options open.

You are right! As to why they may not ban mixers, Bitcointalk wasn't created for the enrichment of the management, but with what Altcoinstalks does, it shows that it's practically created to make money by the creator. So they are willing and desperate to take more risks on mixers than Bitcointalk would take.

I do not think they have active members because mixers are banned here. The other forum has been around for years and many people did use it before the mixer ban. Most probably the numbers registering as new members and the traffic flow must have taken a turn when theymos banned mixers.

That site wouldn't have any active users if not for allowing them to advertise mixers after Bitcointalk banned them.

To what point, bro?

I don't expect anyone to see this differently from LoyceV, it's a well-known fact. I knew Altcointalks even before I joined Bitcointalk, but it's like almost an almost dead forum, that's the truth. Not that there aren't some activities, but can you compare, for instance, the social media handle with active followers of 12k with the one with 40 million active followers? The mixers ban here was a blessing to the forum.

[Lucius]

The goal is always the same, to convince someone that they are improving their privacy, while on the other hand they are actually losing it.

mixer.gov

I've already written somewhere that no one should be surprised if some TrumpMix appears - and considering how the DOJ surprised us recently, it seems that anything is possible. The company's slogan could be "Trust us with your mix, only clean government seized coins"

[LoyceV]

I've already written somewhere that no one should be surprised if some TrumpMix appears - and considering how the DOJ surprised us recently, it seems that anything is possible. The company's slogan could be "Trust us with your mix, only clean government seized coins"

On a more serious note: it'll depend on who you're trying to hide from. Anyone who's not that government still won't know which coins trace back to you. But a normal centralized exchange can break that on-chain link a lot cheaper.

[Bitcoin_Arena]

I think that those coins associated to hacks shouldn't be accepted by any service. They should be immediately confiscated and donated to open source projects or other causes, like eXch did.

Some services tried to blacklist coins or addresses associated with the hackers some years back, and we went down that familiar path of censorship and how bad it is to the freedom to privacy in crypto. 
Basically, not every one will be happy, even those who don't support the hacking but are pro censorship resistance in crypto or at least Bitcoin.

[JollyGood]

The thought had not even crossed my mind but not that you mention it, TrumpMix does have a certain ring to it  

On a serious note, I did not expect the Trump administration to be taking a lenient stance against crypto (and it is very lenient compared to the Biden administration). Now that Musk will step back from his advisory role (whatever that means) after sales of Tesla have fallen by 71% net income from the same quarter last year, he might not have the same influence on Trump as far as being a pro-crypto advisor is concerned.

I hope this does not negatively affect their policy towards crypto.

I've already written somewhere that no one should be surprised if some TrumpMix appears - and considering how the DOJ surprised us recently, it seems that anything is possible. The company's slogan could be "Trust us with your mix, only clean government seized coins"

[Lucius]

The thought had not even crossed my mind but not that you mention it, TrumpMix does have a certain ring to it  

Why not? A man launched a meme coin from his position as president and used his influence to promote it and no doubt make a lot of money - if someone whispered this idea to him I think he might show interest

On a serious note, I did not expect the Trump administration to be taking a lenient stance against crypto (and it is very lenient compared to the Biden administration). Now that Musk will step back from his advisory role (whatever that means) after sales of Tesla have fallen by 71% net income from the same quarter last year, he might not have the same influence on Trump as far as being a pro-crypto advisor is concerned.

The previous president was a career politician, the current one is a businessman who will accept anything in which he sees his personal benefit. As for Mr. Mars, I don't think he's generally pro-crypto, we all know he had good, then bad opinions about BTC, today the question is what he thinks about the same thing.
I don't believe he is one of those who plays a crucial role in advising on cryptocurrencies.

I hope this does not negatively affect their policy towards crypto.

I don't believe that something like that will happen, because why kill the goose that lays the golden eggs?

[Free Market Capitalist]

On a serious note, I did not expect the Trump administration to be taking a lenient stance against crypto (and it is very lenient compared to the Biden administration). Now that Musk will step back from his advisory role (whatever that means) after sales of Tesla have fallen by 71% net income from the same quarter last year, he might not have the same influence on Trump as far as being a pro-crypto advisor is concerned.

I hope this does not negatively affect their policy towards crypto.

I'm not the least bit worried about it.

Half a dozen members of Trump’s cabinet hold Bitcoin assets, disclosures reveal, with a combined total worth millions