A Thousandth Reminder for Beginners and Something Else

[OcTradism]

Unfortunately, more people are buying and using cryptos, and before being a good at something you are a beginner and you make mistakes to learn. That's why I think newcomers should never buy big bags the very first year they start using cryptos, because they will get scammed or make mistakes and will lost large amounts of money. It's better for them, to play with small amounts, in order to understand how it works. Anyway this offer could eventually interest people using a strong passphrase along with their mnemonic seed words being very confident in it.

In cryptocurrency, a very first step is choosing a good wallet.
https://bitcoin.org/en/choose-your-wallet

What is a good wallet?
Two biggest technical things:
- Non-custodial (or self-custodial)
- Open-source

Before using any wallet, verify your download file before installation.
Backup your wallet, test your backup.
You can even do a small funding to test your wallet and your backup, recovery wallet from backup. If the small funding works well, you can fund that wallet with bigger capital.

Security and Privacy Encylopedia

No requirement to share your private keys, or mnemonic seeds to anyone!
n0nce's Steel Washer Backup jig (customisable)
Stainless steel Bitcoin Recovery Seed Plate
Securing Your Seed Phrase with Washers

[Darker45]

The incident involving the seed phrase that the person voluntarily gave away thinking it would be engraved on metal is so unsophisticated that it doesn't even deserve to be called a scam. The victim simply gave away control of their coins. It would be as if someone asked if they can help you carry your wallet and your belongings and you just gave them everything and walked the opposite direction, hoping everything would be ok. Stop and think before you do anything.

I can only hope these people are simply good-natured, raised properly, that they willingly trust and believe in the inner goodness of every man. I don't want to think they're just eager yet naïve individuals who lack basic comprehension.

If people store their seed of their non custodial wallets in any platform like cloud storage service, or messengers like Facebook messenger, Telegram, Viber, Whatsapp, whatsoever, they are doing terrible practice with their wallet, backup and bitcoin.

I know this is very common here in my country. If somebody wants to save an information, he/she sends it to himself/herself. Many DM their own accounts with important information they want to keep or they don't want to forget that they need every once in a while. Accessibility and convenience are probably the reason for doing so.

In my experience, many less tech-savvy users don't even know the difference between cloud and local storage. They store their digital documents in the cloud without even knowing it.

Many also don't know that gadgets could also automatically store their files in the cloud. The moment they're connected to a WiFi, their files are automatically backed up somewhere which is accessible online 24/7. Some might think keeping a photo of their seed phrase in a locked album is enough security. If they don't tinker with their settings, what's supposed to be kept offline is kept online 24/7.

[GreatArkansas]

(.....)

In cryptocurrency, a very first step is choosing a good wallet.
https://bitcoin.org/en/choose-your-wallet

What is a good wallet?
Two biggest technical things:
- Non-custodial (or self-custodial)
- Open-source

(......)

I don't think the issue here is the Bitcoin wallet that is being used but how the seed phrases of a Bitcoin wallet which we all know is a non-custodial wallet will let you hold your own private keys or seed phrases.
I think the victim here is really new and does not know how important the seed phrases is and how it is dangerous when someone has access it.

[PrivacyG]

This isn't a sophisticated scam. It's so obvious that it's both mind-boggling and funny when somebody falls for it. But people fall for it, newbies especially. But considering that they're already into self-custody and metal backups, they're supposed to be more advanced.

It is always the same blue print Scam.  Something very silly, combined with a mixture of bad grammar and nonsense wording.  But the Scam you posted in that image is sinister if you think about it.

The Etsy customers who tried purchasing that physical storage ordered a delivery, correct?  This means the victims turned in not only their Seed but their real information AND physical location too.  This could turn into a VERY sinister event.  But just like all the time, I wonder how in the world does this even happen.  Seriously, HOW!  How does somebody trust a COMPLETE STRANGER to help them out with securing their Wealth.  And they are not even a Bank or at least a more reliable company running the operation!

[knowngunman]

And they said that this is fake though, although it's really stupid to fall for the scam.

I check the Etsy account, and if the victims could report this shop to Etsy and shows evidence that this is a scam, the shop could have been taken down already. Or maybe someone clever enough from this community could message the store and see how it goes, just sort of fun and experiment and if indeed a scam, 

Is this really a scam?  if they called this scam, both the scammer and the scammee (victim) are f**lish

I wouldn't blame the Etsy for this thou even if they're the one responsible for this. I will blame the victim for willingly giving out their phrase for engraving. Scammers are like hunters hunting for preys but in this case, the prey was the one looking for hunters so it can be killed. I know it hurts losing assets no matter how small it is but sometimes, we need to see things like this happening so others can learn from their experiences and stop being naive.

It's not a nice idea to message a scammer first IMO. It's like you want to test the hotness of a fire while you already know that it's a fire. You might end up getting burn. But, if you want to try it, we'll look forward to hear the development from you. Good luck.

[Pmalek]

In my experience, many less tech-savvy users don't even know the difference between cloud and local storage. They store their digital documents in the cloud without even knowing it.

This is so true. People give their phones/computers permissions without even reading what those permissions are. A few years ago I was drinking coffee with a friend the same day he bought a brand-new phone and he was setting it up as we were in the coffeeshop. Because I was sitting next to him, I could see what he was doing during the initial onboarding process. He wasn't even reading the text on the information boxes. He was just clicking 'yes', 'next', 'continue', 'ok', to finish as soon as possible. My comment on that was, dude are you even reading those info boxes to configure your phone properly? He looked at me and smiled as if I was an idiot asking stupid things like that. These are the types of people who are later puzzled how someone "hacked" their phone, why they are advertising porn over social media, and how someone mysteriously stole their money...

[Alphakilo]

It looks like the buyer lost focus, maybe they got overwhelmed with trying to find a better way to safeguard their seed phrase and forgot the most basic rule: never share your seed phrase.

In our rush to do the right the, we miss the most crucial aspect of the right thing that we end up doing the wrong thing.
Be twice as vigilant when you are entering your address of filling any form that has to do with cryptocurrency.
Som beginners have linked to the wrong MetaMask wallet and have all their funds stolen. As much as you are excited to do the right thing like buy a metal seed backup, a hardware wallet do your research very well before you purchase it.

[ultrloa]

In my experience, many less tech-savvy users don't even know the difference between cloud and local storage. They store their digital documents in the cloud without even knowing it.

This is so true. People give their phones/computers permissions without even reading what those permissions are. A few years ago I was drinking coffee with a friend the same day he bought a brand-new phone and he was setting it up as we were in the coffeeshop. Because I was sitting next to him, I could see what he was doing during the initial onboarding process. He wasn't even reading the text on the information boxes. He was just clicking 'yes', 'next', 'continue', 'ok', to finish as soon as possible. My comment on that was, dude are you even reading those info boxes to configure your phone properly? He looked at me and smiled as if I was an idiot asking stupid things like that. These are the types of people who are later puzzled how someone "hacked" their phone, why they are advertising porn over social media, and how someone mysteriously stole their money...

Common mistake made by some individual since they think nothing will happen to them as they are the one who's handling their phone and computer. They didn't realize that by clicking those permissions asked by the app they are just giving those criminal an access to their wallet or other important files on their phone or computer.

Its important to verify everything what we are accessing or trying to download and check what the permissions asked by the app so that we would know if its risky to proceed or its totally safe to use.

But since the dude didn't care much and don't bother the consequences of his current action provably that later on he would regret those ignoring he made once he will get compromised by those hackers. They only learn once there's something bad happen to them and this is unfortunate reality in the scene.

[Coyster]

Its important to verify everything what we are accessing or trying to download and check what the permissions asked by the app so that we would know if its risky to proceed or its totally safe to use.

Whilst you are correct that it is important to do this, that is not actually the case here, the case in the OP is a far more shocking kind of scam, not the one were people click random links or download malware to their devices, no. The person in the OP basically gave away their money in the process of acquiring a metal seed phrase backup, somehow the victim thought sending his seed phrase to the manufacturers scammers was a good idea, so they could help him engrave the seed phrase before sending.

[Darker45]

It looks like the buyer lost focus, maybe they got overwhelmed with trying to find a better way to safeguard their seed phrase and forgot the most basic rule: never share your seed phrase.

In our rush to do the right the, we miss the most crucial aspect of the right thing that we end up doing the wrong thing.
Be twice as vigilant when you are entering your address of filling any form that has to do with cryptocurrency.
Som beginners have linked to the wrong MetaMask wallet and have all their funds stolen. As much as you are excited to do the right thing like buy a metal seed backup, a hardware wallet do your research very well before you purchase it.

I think they're missing the why of those right things.

For example, they've learned along the way that a non-custodial or a hardware wallet is the right wallet, but they missed knowing why it's the right wallet. And so they're taking a pic of their backup and store it in the cloud.

They've been advised that 'not your keys, not your coins'. They remembered it. They got their seed backup. But since they missed why 'not your keys, not your coins', they're readily sharing their backup for engraving. 

This is like so many in the community today. They've heard, they've read, they're told to buy Bitcoin, and so they bought. But why Bitcoin? They don't know. They're missing the most fundamental why of things.

[SilverCryptoBullet]

I think they're missing the why of those right things.

For example, they've learned along the way that a non-custodial or a hardware wallet is the right wallet, but they missed knowing why it's the right wallet. And so they're taking a pic of their backup and store it in the cloud.

Hardware wallet is good choice but not all hardware wallets are good. Bitcoin users need to know basics to choose good wallets, including good hardware wallets, and must know how to buy hardware wallets in a right way too.

[LIST] Open Source Hardware Wallets
[GUIDE] How to buy a Hardware Wallet the right way

They can check a wallet is open source or not with https://walletscrutiny.com/

[Coyster]

Hardware wallet is good choice but not all hardware wallets are good. Bitcoin users need to know basics to choose good wallets, including good hardware wallets, and must know how to buy hardware wallets in a right way too.

An open source hardware wallet is better than a closed source hardware wallet, but you'll sooner lose your money if you use an open source hardware wallet and send its seed phrase to scammers for engraving. The thing here isn't even if the hardware wallet is open source or not, it is the users level of operational security and general knowledge, if the user is lacking in this, he or she will probably lose their money in any wallet whatsoever.

[albon]

An open source hardware wallet is better than a closed source hardware wallet, but you'll sooner lose your money if you use an open source hardware wallet and send its seed phrase to scammers for engraving. The thing here isn't even if the hardware wallet is open source or not, it is the users level of operational security and general knowledge, if the user is lacking in this, he or she will probably lose their money in any wallet whatsoever.

This is absolutely true; anything open-source is undoubtedly safer. What made the story shared by the OP funny to me was the victim's naïve behavior of sending his seed phrases to the store Merchants and paying them to scam him.  How could someone purchase a metal seed backup to protect his seed phrases from naturall elements while failing to protect them from the eyes of the people engraving them?

Unfortunately, many unofficial stores offer to sell the seed backup tooll with the option to "add your personalization." It is wrong for someone to make an order through them and send them his seed phrases that should not be seen by anyone other than the owner of the wallet (whatever he uses) because if anyone trusts them, they will steal their customers’ wallets immediately, so you should avoid them completely. Any store, person, or platform that asks for such sensitive information is a scam.

[taufik123]

An open source hardware wallet is better than a closed source hardware wallet, but you'll sooner lose your money if you use an open source hardware wallet and send its seed phrase to scammers for engraving. The thing here isn't even if the hardware wallet is open source or not, it is the users level of operational security and general knowledge, if the user is lacking in this, he or she will probably lose their money in any wallet whatsoever.

Therefore, understanding before using a hardware wallet app must be learned.
If those who use hardware wallets don't understand what they're using to store their assets, then it's just the best place to lose.

Storing the seed phrase is very important to pay attention to, because whoever has the seed phrase is the owner.
Therefore, there are many options that can be done to keep it safe and only you can access it, and also safe from any damage by using seed backups that are widely sold today.

[Darker45]

Hardware wallet is good choice but not all hardware wallets are good. Bitcoin users need to know basics to choose good wallets, including good hardware wallets, and must know how to buy hardware wallets in a right way too.

An open source hardware wallet is better than a closed source hardware wallet, but you'll sooner lose your money if you use an open source hardware wallet and send its seed phrase to scammers for engraving. The thing here isn't even if the hardware wallet is open source or not, it is the users level of operational security and general knowledge, if the user is lacking in this, he or she will probably lose their money in any wallet whatsoever.

Exactly. Perhaps before going into choosing between a hot wallet and a cold wallet, an open-source wallet and a closed-source wallet, a custodial wallet and a non-custodial wallet, and so on, one must first understand the fundamental reasons why one is more preferable, more recommended, than the other. It's pointless going into self-custody when you just end up sharing your seed phrase with a stranger.

Incidentally, just yesterday, I replied to another thread by a worried newbie asking about Bitcoin's volatility. Accordingly, he/she's a farmer who works daily and who's also responsible for looking after his/her parents. He/she's heard about Bitcoin but isn't knowledgeable about it. But he/she's willing to invest in it, though scared of its volatility.

Here's the exact kind newbie who's susceptible to the kinds of scams I'm talking in the OP. He/she knows nothing, but willing to invest. He/she doesn't know the basics, but worried about the wrong thing. He/she's getting himself/herself into level 5 without going through level 1.

[Moreno233]

An open source hardware wallet is better than a closed source hardware wallet, but you'll sooner lose your money if you use an open source hardware wallet and send its seed phrase to scammers for engraving. The thing here isn't even if the hardware wallet is open source or not, it is the users level of operational security and general knowledge, if the user is lacking in this, he or she will probably lose their money in any wallet whatsoever.

Therefore, understanding before using a hardware wallet app must be learned.
If those who use hardware wallets don't understand what they're using to store their assets, then it's just the best place to lose.

Storing the seed phrase is very important to pay attention to, because whoever has the seed phrase is the owner.
Therefore, there are many options that can be done to keep it safe and only you can access it, and also safe from any damage by using seed backups that are widely sold today.

I'm really scared not because going through the various comments on this thread, it shows that even hardware wallet can pose some risk sometimes. I was made to believe that hardware wallets are the safest but with these revelations, one begin to doubt what is actually safe. I know the OP describe a case of storing the seed phrase online which is something not advisable, but some other comments point to the fact that even without saving the seed phrase online, some hardware wallets still have some risks attached to them. That is simply the part that scares me and got me thinking what could be the best approach now.

[CryptopreneurBrainboss]

Days ago also, there was a topic on reddit about somebody who was scammed while ordering metal seed backup. The reason is that he shared the seed for engraving. The purpose of having a seed backup in metal is to make sure it's protected from all kind of elements while kept hidden, so that it will last. Everything became pointless the moment it was shared with somebody else.

The scam story this days are just funny, no attempts from the scammers of being smart, just the victims being stupid. You can't tell me someone that has the knowledge of having his seed phrase engraved on a metal for extra protection will be stupid to give out all his 12 world to an unknown individual that he has no past trust record with.

He was basically telling him to make way with his money because when you give out all your seed phrase, you have given out control of your Bitcoin. To avoid being in similar situations, you can make use of different professionals for the engraving and you can divide the words in two section or more and engrave them in different metal plates.

Also, you can write them out on a paper and laminate then to prevent water from destroying them then put them in a safe or other safe places you can think of.

[Zoomic]

What is the essence of ordering a hardware wallet when the person has not known and obeyed the basics rules of using software wallets?

This isn't a sophisticated scam. It's so obvious that it's both mind-boggling and funny when somebody falls for it. But people fall for it, newbies especially. But considering that they're already into self-custody and metal backups, they're supposed to be more advanced. Or perhaps they're too eager going to the next level even if they aren't ready yet.

By the way, this happened on Etsy. The victim ordered from spacemuletrading.

Why people fall for this scam is not necessarily because of ignorance. I have this feelings that the scammers talk with them and win their trust in trying to help them secure their funds. So, when you get to trust some random online guys, there are very high chances that you would be scammed.

[Darker45]

Also, you can write them out on a paper and laminate then to prevent water from destroying them then put them in a safe or other safe places you can think of.

If and only if it's your own laminating machine. Otherwise, I wouldn't be bringing my seed phrase on a piece of paper to a shop and hand it over to a stranger for lamination. So, since many of us don't have a reason to own laminating machines, I'd rather just keep the backup inside multiple layers of ziplock containers.

This brings in mind printing multiple copies of seed backups to make sure they're properly written and always legible. I'm afraid this is also a big no.

[PrivacyG]

Why people fall for this scam is not necessarily because of ignorance. I have this feelings that the scammers talk with them and win their trust in trying to help them secure their funds. So, when you get to trust some random online guys, there are very high chances that you would be scammed.

If not ignorance, then it is stupidity.  People used to be WAY more cautious about their finances and Privacy.  Look at the traditional elderly and how they still respect it.  Most of them barely ever mention a thing about their savings or investments if there are any.  We are becoming way too open to strangers and it is a little bit sinister.  Everybody and their mommy openly talks about how much Money they are holding on to, whether they are doing good or bad with their Bitcoin investments et cetera.  Opening up to a complete stranger whose face, physical location, voice or personality you have no clue about is simply asking for danger.