wallet recovery with 12 words seed phrase

[LordDeSith]

Hi everyone!

I have the 12 words seed phrase of a wallet I created back in 2015, which I now want to access again.

I cant remember with which software the seed was created, as far as I remember it must be Bitcoin Core or Electrum.

When I recover it with Electrum, no balance and no transactions are shown. But there should be some.

Recovery with Bitcoin Core is not preferred, because I dont want to sync for weeks.

Summarized: I have the wallet password, the datestamp and the BIP39 12 words seed phrase.

Are there any other options?

Thanks and best regards

[OmegaStarScream]

You cannot use a seedphrase on Bitcoin core so you can eliminate that from the equation. Electrum does uses seedphrases but it's not a BIP39 as you mentioned, so if you restored while checking the BIP39 in the oltions, tey to restore again without doing so.

I also believe Electrum used to have different type of seed back in 2015 (before version 2.0 or something) but I think it should be supported still, someone correct me if I'm wrong.

[LoyceV]

When I recover it with Electrum, no balance and no transactions are shown. But there should be some.

Any chance you extended the seed with a passphrase (also called "13^th word")? If you did, you'll need to add it again or you get a different wallet.

I also believe Electrum used to have different type of seed back in 2015 (before version 2.0 or something) but I think it should be supported still, someone correct me if I'm wrong.

As far as I know, Electrum seeds include the version number so they should always work correctly.

[LordDeSith]

Thanks for your help!

You cannot use a seedphrase on Bitcoin core so you can eliminate that from the equation. Electrum does uses seedphrases but it's not a BIP39 as you mentioned, so if you restored while checking the BIP39 in the oltions, tey to restore again without doing so.

I also believe Electrum used to have different type of seed back in 2015 (before version 2.0 or something) but I think it should be supported still, someone correct me if I'm wrong.

Okey, then I believe the seed was created with Electrum. When importing at Electrum I cannot select any other option than BIP39, otherwise I cannot click next.

When I recover it with Electrum, no balance and no transactions are shown. But there should be some.

Any chance you extended the seed with a passphrase (also called "13^th word")? If you did, you'll need to add it again or you get a different wallet.

I also believe Electrum used to have different type of seed back in 2015 (before version 2.0 or something) but I think it should be supported still, someone correct me if I'm wrong.

As far as I know, Electrum seeds include the version number so they should always work correctly.

I dont think so, that a passphrase was used. In that case I would have written that one down. I did not wrote down a version number, but a Datestamp in the format of ****/**, which is not an actual date. Could this be a hint for something?

[LoyceV]

a Datestamp in the format of ****/**, which is not an actual date. Could this be a hint for something?

I've never seen a datestamp for Electrum. Monero for instance uses those, to speed up synchronisation. Are you sure it's a Bitcoin seed?

[khaled0111]

I dont think so, that a passphrase was used. In that case I would have written that one down. I did not wrote down a version number, but a Datestamp in the format of ****/**, which is not an actual date. Could this be a hint for something?

That’s unlikely to be a timestamp, but more likely to be a derivation path.
Does it look something like this: m/84’/0'/0'?
If it does then it’s a derivation path and you will need it (along with the seed) to restore the correct wallet.

What you need to do, after typing the seed and selecting bip39 (assuming you are using electrum to restore your wallet), is to type that derivation path in the appropriate field then click Finish.

[nc50lc]

I believe the seed was created with Electrum.
When importing at Electrum I cannot select any other option than BIP39, otherwise I cannot click next.

With that, it's safe to assume that it isn't an Electrum seed phrase.

If you pasted an Electrum seed there, the 'Next' button should be clickable without ticking any options, if it's not an Electrum seed, it will not be clickable.
And based from its age, a note saying "Seed type: old" should be displayed below it.

Also, if you tick "BIP39 seed" option, it should display "BIP39 checksum ok" for it to be a valid BIP39 seed.
So if it shows that it has the correct checksum, that's your first clue.
Otherwise it's something from a non-standard mnemonic seed implementation or has at least one wrong word or arrangement.
Continuing will just force Electrum to derive keys from it because the 'Next' button will be clickable whether it's a valid BIP39 seed or not since you ticked "BIP39 seed" option.

[mcdouglasx]

If you enter your seed phrase and you can only move forward if you check the BIP39, it means that:

1- it is not a standard electrum seed phrase.

2--it has typos, you are adding an incorrect symbol or letter or spelling mistakes.

3- you created a custom BIP39:

Custom BIP39 seeds do not have a specific format so you can write whatever you want, it is essentially a brainwallet.
In this case, make sure you choose the correct address type and derivation path, if "detect existing accounts" does not work.



Do you remember anything specific? Software color, address type...?
Do you remember if the password was to enter the software or was it part of the seed?.

[LordDeSith]

Thank you guys for trying to help me!

I've never seen a datestamp for Electrum. Monero for instance uses those, to speed up synchronisation. Are you sure it's a Bitcoin seed?

Yes its for sure my old BTC wallet, i wrote it down next to the words.

That’s unlikely to be a timestamp, but more likely to be a derivation path.
Does it look something like this: m/84’/0'/0'?
If it does then it’s a derivation path and you will need it (along with the seed) to restore the correct wallet.

What you need to do, after typing the seed and selecting bip39 (assuming you are using electrum to restore your wallet), is to type that derivation path in the appropriate field then click Finish.

Dont think it is a derivation path, because I wrote "Datestamp: 1234/56". It is not 1234/56, just six random numbers, which are too big to be an actual date.

With that, it's safe to assume that it isn't an Electrum seed phrase.

If you pasted an Electrum seed there, the 'Next' button should be clickable without ticking any options, if it's not an Electrum seed, it will not be clickable.
And based from its age, a note saying "Seed type: old" should be displayed below it.

Also, if you tick "BIP39 seed" option, it should display "BIP39 checksum ok" for it to be a valid BIP39 seed.
So if it shows that it has the correct checksum, that's your first clue.
Otherwise it's something from a non-standard mnemonic seed implementation or has at least one wrong word or arrangement.
Continuing will just force Electrum to derive keys from it because the 'Next' button will be clickable whether it's a valid BIP39 seed or not since you ticked "BIP39 seed" option.

There is no hint about the correct checksum in Electrum. I triple checked every word and arrangement.

If you enter your seed phrase and you can only move forward if you check the BIP39, it means that:

1- it is not a standard electrum seed phrase.

2--it has typos, you are adding an incorrect symbol or letter or spelling mistakes.

3- you created a custom BIP39:

Custom BIP39 seeds do not have a specific format so you can write whatever you want, it is essentially a brainwallet.
In this case, make sure you choose the correct address type and derivation path, if "detect existing accounts" does not work.

https://www.talkimg.com/images/2025/02/03/ePAfb.png

Do you remember anything specific? Software color, address type...?
Do you remember if the password was to enter the software or was it part of the seed?.

Its not a custom BIP39, because every word is in the BIP39 word list. I cannot remember anything specific regarding the wallet. The password was just used to enter the software.

Is there a wallet, which supports a lot of different seed formats?

[mcdouglasx]

Dont think it is a derivation path, because I wrote "Datestamp: 1234/56". It is not 1234/56, just six random numbers, which are too big to be an actual date.

Maybe those numbers are the complement (passphrase) of your BIP39 or a personalized path.

There is no hint about the correct checksum in Electrum. I triple checked every word and arrangement.

If there is no warning of invalid checksums, it means your seed is valid.

Its not a custom BIP39, because every word is in the BIP39 word list. I cannot remember anything specific regarding the wallet. The password was just used to enter the software.

Is there a wallet, which supports a lot of different seed formats?

Another option is that you have extended the seed with an addition, as you can see in the image.



As for BIP39, it's a standard, but it's known that some older wallets have used their own derivation paths or customized word lists, so you would have to test each one individually.

[Cricktor]

If it doesn't pass as an Electrum mnemonic words seed, but checks out fine with no checksum error as BIP39 mnemonic words seed, then it is very likely the latter.

If the wallet is empty it can mean most likely two things: this mnemonic words seed is an unused wallet or it has been extended with an optional mnemonic passphrase where only the correct mnemonic passphrase will give you a wallet with history if it has been actually used.

Dont think it is a derivation path, because I wrote "Datestamp: 1234/56". It is not 1234/56, just six random numbers, which are too big to be an actual date.

If the numbers can't reasonably be some sort of datestamp but you wrote it as such, it probably means something and you failed to properly document for yourself what it means. Such poorly documented obfuscation usually shoots the creator in his foot, especially after some years have passed when memory about it considerably faded. Don't do such things!

You can try to think about it, maybe some memories resurface. Good luck is all I can wish you.

And the next time you create a wallet, document it better: purpose, which software, all details, derivation path, date of wallet birth, anything special about it, no funky obfuscation or hidden riddles.

[nc50lc]

Also, if you tick "BIP39 seed" option, it should display "BIP39 checksum ok" for it to be a valid BIP39 seed.
So if it shows that it has the correct checksum, that's your first clue.

There is no hint about the correct checksum in Electrum. I triple checked every word and arrangement.

Okay I checked, they've (silently) removed the message: "Checksum: ok" if the BIP39 seed is valid and will just show "Checksum failed" if invalid. (in Dec 6, last year)
In this commit: github.com/spesmilo/electrum/commit/b87d091a6d1666333e93a6be57b25a5cc4103d7f

But like I've said in that quote, that message about the checksum will only be displayed once you ticked "BIP39 seed" option and you didn't typed an invalid word.
If none is ticked, Electrum will always assume that you're typing an Electrum-generated seed phrase which doesn't use that kind of checksum.
If it's ticked and none is displayed, assume that it's a valid BIP39 seed, arrangement and words.

Your next step is to remember if you've used a "BIP39 passphrase" a.k.a. "13 word" or "Extension".
As well as if you've used a non-standard derivation path.

For starters, use the "Detect Existing Accounts" in that create new wallet select script type menu (for BIP39 seed) it should search for funded addresses within these derivation paths,
This file contains that list: https://github.com/spesmilo/electrum/blob/master/electrum/bip39_wallet_formats.json
If that button didn't find any, your wallet's derivation path should be different from those in the list or your seed phrase has a passphrase.

I wrote "Datestamp: 1234/56". It is not 1234/56, just six random numbers, which are too big to be an actual date.

Perhaps that's simply in "Unix TimeStamp" which is about 10 digits long?

[tbct_mt2]

If it doesn't pass as an Electrum mnemonic words seed, but checks out fine with no checksum error as BIP39 mnemonic words seed, then it is very likely the latter.

If the wallet is empty it can mean most likely two things: this mnemonic words seed is an unused wallet or it has been extended with an optional mnemonic passphrase where only the correct mnemonic passphrase will give you a wallet with history if it has been actually used.

He can check mnemonic words with BIP39 word list or can use this software for checking (offline!)

The FinderOuter, a bitcoin recovery tool.
If issue is with extended passphrase, things will be harder and more complicated with higher risk of losing that wallet if recovery fails but he can try too.

6. Missing mnomonic (seed) words
This option works for both BIP-39 and Electrum mnemonics that have some missing words. It requires knowing one child (private/public) key or address created from that seed and the exact derivation path of it.

7. Missing mnemonic passphrase
This option is used to recover the extension words (aka passphrase) used in mnemonics. It works for both BIP-39 and Electrum mnemonics algorithms. The available passphrase recovery modes are:
a. Alphanumeric: This is when the passphrase consists of letter, numbers and symbols and is random. Example: OT!pA?8i
b. CustomChars: This mode allows user to define their own set of characters to be used in the passphrase. c. soon

[Abdussamad]

Multibit HD used to provide a date stamp with its seed mnemonic. You probably need to enter the correct derivation path in step 2b below:

https://bitcoinelectrum.com/restoring-your-multibithd-wallet-in-electrum/

m/0' is what you need to enter there.

[LordDeSith]

Thank you all for your kind help.

I will try out some derivation paths and passphrases as 13th word.

I also will try this tool for recovery.

The next time I will write down some more information about the seed generation...

[LoyceV]

The next time I will write down some more information about the seed generation...

Even better if you test recovery before funding your address, so you know for sure you have everything you need in your backup. Ideally, you shouldn't do this on an online device for safety.

[tbct_mt2]

The next time I will write down some more information about the seed generation...

Even better if you test recovery before funding your address, so you know for sure you have everything you need in your backup. Ideally, you shouldn't do this on an online device for safety.

It's a vital step in doing a wallet backup!
There are people who did not make wallet backup that is terrible, but there are other people who did made wallet backup but did not know how to use it for wallet recovery, and even made mistake in their writing for backup, and it's terrible too.

It's advised in How to backup a seed phrase? too.

Test Your Backup

Regardless of which backup scheme you choose, if you don't actually do a test run of restoring a wallet from it, you can't be confident that it will work when you actually need it.

How should you go about testing your backup?

Create a new wallet.
Create your seed phrase backups.
Deposit a small amount of funds into the wallet, like $10 or $20 worth.
If possible, create a new wallet with a different name, otherwise delete your current wallet.
Initialize the new wallet using your seed phrase backup, make sure the funds appear in the wallet, and that you can spend them.