If You love AI, Protect Human Written Texts at any Cost.

[Asiska02]

This should be the final nail in the coffin of people arguing (through repetetive crap/ strawmanning etc) for allowing AI generated posts. Experts are claiming that 90% of the content available on Internet would be AI generated by 2026 (synthetic data). Now the problem is with LLM models is that if you train them on synthetic data (data produced by LLM itself) they start collapsing very badly. This could result in AI hallucinating and giving you totally wrong or fabricated responses. Researchers used the word 'poisoning' (rightly).

From onset I have never find the reason to depend solely on this AI of a thing to write. I don’t feel it is a bad invention but at the same time I don’t know how I don’t feel the need to use it. If researches have shown that they will fail overtime, then it is better those depending on it to stop using it and get use to writing on their own. At least communications aren’t that poor before they came, so people can still do without them because they breed laziness in people.

Would you prefer reading posts with poor grammar/spelling that are hard to understand, or would you rather people use AI tools to express their thoughts effectively?

Most people prefer to see you expressing yourself naturally rather than depending on a tool to help you polish your language. Whenever you think that you have something to better your language communication skill, it makes you feel lazy to actually learn how to communicate in that language effectively without depending on that tool.

[nutildah]

Here’s a better question..

Would you prefer reading posts with poor grammar/spelling that are hard to understand, or would you rather people use AI tools to express their thoughts effectively?

Even if with grammar/spelling errors or hard to understand, good posts are still good in that they express some kind of unique idea or concept that is also interesting.

A "good post" reflects an honest attempt to contribute original thought to an ongoing conversation or discussion, even if the delivery wasn't 100% perfect. This is IMO of course, and I think this standard is fairly accomplishable... its not a high standard.

Meanwhile, using AI to express dumb/unoriginal thoughts effectively will never transform a post from bad to good.

Also, at what point does the content of a post become more an expression of AI over its poster? Where do you draw that line? Using AI for writing in any way is a slippery slope that encourages laziness and unoriginality.

[philipma1957]

How about I hate AI, and want to protect human writing anyway?

I can only encourage chatbots to destroy themselves, so I don't have to read their verbal diarrhea. I can't wait for this hype to disappear again: even every phone and browser is now forcing "AI" because for some reason many people think they need that.

Back to the forum: "AI" is mostly used by people who are too lazy (or dumb) to write something on their own, and fake images. I wouldn't miss that if it's gone.

ai does make many mistakes and errors.

but if it ever does become good forums will suck bigly.

i really effort to do james joyce style as much as possible as I think ai really blows at doing good old jimmy joyce writing style.

[memehunter]

What exactly do you mean by "our prior negligence"?

Carelessly (lazily, somehow) buy the propaganda that AI will do everything for us and use it for writing almost everything on the internet. (I was referring to a big majority.) AI is advancing much faster because of our voluntarily acces given to AI than our abilities to differentiate between human and AI.

How about I hate AI, and want to protect human writing anyway?

It works either way, I guess.

[ABCbits]

We could discuss about AI all the day, but i doubt admin will ever add rule that forbid AI usage to generate text. It's simply need too much effort to enforce such rule (even with detailed report from other member).
~snip~

My opinion is that some kind of rule is better than none, because when there is no rule, people behave exactly like we see - every day you can easily find at least a dozen profiles that use AI to generate their posts - and that's probably just the tip of the iceberg.

It would be easiest to say that the use of AI in an inappropriate way is subject to a permanent ban as well as plagiarism, but the admin will have a hard time deciding on such a step because it is too much work for the mods - although the forum has enough resources to appoint a few more moderators and start a reckoning with the AI ​​mafia.

Interesting point. It could make account who misuse AI/chatbot get banned/nuked more quickly, since it violate more rules.

What exactly do you mean by "our prior negligence"?

Carelessly (lazily, somehow) buy the propaganda that AI will do everything for us and use it for writing almost everything on the internet. (I was referring to a big majority.) AI is advancing much faster because of our voluntarily acces given to AI than our abilities to differentiate between human and AI.

I see. Although regarding giving access, i don't think people who write on internet and share it publicly know it would be used to train AI/chatbot.

[dzungmobile]

Even if with grammar/spelling errors or hard to understand, good posts are still good in that they express some kind of unique idea or concept that is also interesting.

Except if their English writing skill is too bad, and their posts are too English-broken, otherwise posters don't need to write perfect sentences for their posts to express their opinion so that readers can understand their messages.

They can practice and improve their written English with time, and there are also local boards for discussions.

When trying to write quality posts, a lot of people act as though they're writing a book report for school: putting facts that we already know into their own words. Nobody wants to read that, and you will not get merit for it. Moreover, the length of your post and the quality of your English are only minor factors. In trying to write a quality post worthy of merit, you should offer new ideas, personal experiences, or perspectives that other forum users will actually find new and interesting.

If you are fluent in any language other than English, then it is highly encouraged for you to post in your local board. These boards often have tight-knit communities which will be able to help you, and in some ways you might be at an advantage compared to English-only posters.

In the English sections, only English is allowed. It is not necessary to speak perfect English, though you should be understandable. Try your best. If you're unsure whether your English is good enough, ask in your local board or in the Beginners & Help section

A "good post" reflects an honest attempt to contribute original thought to an ongoing conversation or discussion, even if the delivery wasn't 100% perfect. This is IMO of course, and I think this standard is fairly accomplishable... its not a high standard.

Original content with own idea and efforts in your posts is important. Nobody want to read a post composed by AI and just to get post quota from AI-spammers.

[Coyster]

AI has become so prevalent that it is now safe to say that there is no stopping it, this is a discussion forum and we can all agree that we all want to discuss with humans and robots, if you are generating AI posts then that is obnoxious and it makes the discussion feel 'fake'.

That said, i can understand if some people want to use it to correct their grammar and spelling, but there is one fact i know, and it is that this forum improves people's grammar and spelling, so you might not even need AI, you can just keep posting your original contents and watch how much your grammar will improve over time.

[memehunter]

So, I think, if we don't want to see the forum turn into a place full of AI-generated content, we need a rule that would get users banned, first temporrily, and then permanent for repeated offenses. Also, some will say it's not easy to always identify AI-generated content, but, whenever it's done, as we can see in the thread I mentioned above, at least then some action should be taken.

I totally agree with the spirit of your post. The only difference is how hard you want to go against AI garbage, and it is just a matter of technicalities. The hidden idea (more of a concern) behind OP is 'it is getting very difficult to differentiate between AI and human and things are only going to get worse'.I mean, this is the ultimate goal of any AI, think and act like a human(ideal). What about people who will learn everything from the internet? Which will be 90% synthetic data? They will start copying AI style as standard, imagine the mess.
I am sure that many senior quality posters are feeling the need to scan their own original post through AI detectors just to be sure that someone can't intrepret  that as AI. This is how ridiculous AI and human differentiation has become, and it is just the beginning. Most senior members here have read actual books and have debated with actual humans and we got to preserve that at any cost. I will not be surprised if tommorow human written text will be more expensive and therofore more rarer, just because of mindless AI outputs.   

[Alone055]

I totally agree with the spirit of your post. The only difference is how hard you want to go against AI garbage, and it is just a matter of technicalities. The hidden idea (more of a concern) behind OP is 'it is getting very difficult to differentiate between AI and human and things are only going to get worse'.I mean, this is the ultimate goal of any AI, think and act like a human(ideal). What about people who will learn everything from the internet? Which will be 90% synthetic data? They will start copying AI style as standard, imagine the mess.
I am sure that many senior quality posters are feeling the need to scan their own original post through AI detectors just to be sure that someone can't intrepret  that as AI. This is how ridiculous AI and human differentiation has become, and it is just the beginning. Most senior members here have read actual books and have debated with actual humans and we got to preserve that at any cost. I will not be surprised if tommorow human written text will be more expensive and therofore more rarer, just because of mindless AI outputs.   

Exactly, that's the reason why I said that we should at least hammer the ones who are getting detected for the time being before the mess gets out of hand.

AI is making people lazy, and they either don't realize it or don't care. If a person can use the internet, reach this forum, create an account, then they should have enough knowledge to write a few lines about a specific subject, but the only reason why they don't do it is because they have become too lazy.

You are right about the fact that many might check their posts using tools just to make sure they are not getting detected as AI-generated, I used to do the same because I use grammarly to rectify the mistakes in my writing, and to make sure that the posts are still humane, I sometimes use a tool or two to check them.

The biggest problem, which is basically fueling this whole thing, is the presence of AI text humanizers. Even now, when we have not reached the point where a text coming straight out of an AI model is not as identical as a human-written text, we might still face problems detecting them sometimes only because of these tools that help them change the structure and everything of a text that they have generated so that it doesn't get detected as AI-generated. Some also do it manually, adding mistakes and extra spaces, etc., to make the texts undetectable because they know that a text generated through an AI will usually have perfection when it comes to its structure.

Thinking about all the work and the overall process one needs to go through when doing this, I can't help but wonder why such people think it's worth it. I mean you can literally spend less time and energy in writing a response yourself than going through all that, it will probably look better and it will also save you from being labelled as a "AI shitposter".

[lovesmayfamilis]

I think that many adults on the forum were brought up in books, fiction, poetry, and textbooks written by people, not robots AI. In childhood, we were always encouraged to read, which develops not only literacy and knowledge but also the ability to form our own opinions and worldviews, which we received from the right books. Today, AI encourages us to use its opinion, and its literacy and imposes its ideas. People, many, are illiterate, and believe everything that is on the Internet as the final truth without checking the sources because they are not well-read but have "knowledge" from social networks; they turn, excuse me, into a stupid herd.

Do I need to say that such a society is easy to manage?

[Marvelockg]

That said, i can understand if some people want to use it to correct their grammar and spelling, but there is one fact i know, and it is that this forum improves people's grammar and spelling, so you might not even need AI, you can just keep posting your original contents and watch how much your grammar will improve over time.

Apart from those that are part of the world where English is not their primary language, there is no point writing with AI in a discussion forum as this. Apart from this forum, most of us are still part of other platforms where we give constructive opinions on matters that are similar to what is obtainable on the forum. It is usually rare to find people AI-generated post since for most of the platforms, there is no emphasis on the need for only quality contribution posted.

Like what happens sometimes on some thread on the speculation board, because of lack of knowledge on some kind of thread, some newbies are fond of using AI to generate text which they use in posting on those kinds of thread. you read through the post, and it looks so empty and unnatural, and it is usually easy to differentiate what is written by humans from what is generated through AI. it is even a disservice to the generator of the AI post if he is relying on them for merely contributing to the forum discussion. you can't grow from doing that.

Some of us were bad at writing and giving constructive opinions at the time we started, but over time, constant engagement in forum discussion and working on our writing skills have helped us become better than we were at the point we joined the forum.

[Reynaldo]

We need more organic responses, i hope we never loose the capability to distinguish between what's real and not The real issue isn't AI writing  it's lazy thinking. Whether you use AI or not, if you're just recycling the same tired takes without adding value, you're ngmi in any community worth being part of.

[Sandra_hakeem]

It's simply need too much effort to enforce such rule

AI has gotten to its brink already, shooting in slowly like a pretty, smiley-face sunset, but with an ambience of intensed heat in it's core (we don't know how hot it can be).
Now, my fear doesn't even have a thing to do with the fact that I have accepted the reality of AI models, but who knows where this is going? Certainly, nobody. This thing has been adopted by millions, and in few years to come, it's definitely going to be a mess. There's a limit to what Theymos can do.

I would rather have people learn to express their thoughts effectively. What's the use of a forum populated by bots.

I'm rephrasing this with a huge question tag - "what's the use of a forum populated by bots" ??
I'm trying to imagine what that's going to look like and, it doesn't sit well to me like I'd want to have an experience.
No logic, no POVs, no flawful proposals that'd end up getting overruled, nothing left to at least keep us up with the consciousness of   "yeah, I'm speaking to a human"?? Wow!

[LoyceV]

What's the use of a forum populated by bots.

I'm rephrasing this with a huge question tag - "what's the use of a forum populated by bots" ??

Control. Imagine the power you get over people if you can get them to read whatever automated BS you come up with!

The dead Internet theory is a conspiracy theory that asserts, due to a coordinated and intentional effort, the Internet now consists mainly of bot activity and automatically generated content manipulated by algorithmic curation to control the population and minimize organic human activity.

I think we're getting very close to this point, it's easy for a bot to produce many times more content than any person could ever do.

[nutildah]

The dead Internet theory is a conspiracy theory that asserts, due to a coordinated and intentional effort, the Internet now consists mainly of bot activity and automatically generated content manipulated by algorithmic curation to control the population and minimize organic human activity.

I think we're getting very close to this point, it's easy for a bot to produce many times more content than any person could ever do.

The weirdest part is humans are doing it. Humans want this to happen. When the point comes that AI is able to reproduce itself, then they'll do an even better job of it, but I don't think we're quite there yet.

I'm waiting for an AI ransomware bot that collects BTC and then uses it to rent out its own server space so it can continue propagating. The future's gonna be lit.

[NotATether]

I'm waiting for an AI ransomware bot that collects BTC and then uses it to rent out its own server space so it can continue propagating. The future's gonna be lit.

Judging by my very very recent experience with payment processors, it's going to be hard for bots to continue abusing service providers in this matter without getting blocked from ordering.

Keep throwing money at them like this and they're going to keep seizing every payment until the bot runs dry.

[philipma1957]

So, I think, if we don't want to see the forum turn into a place full of AI-generated content, we need a rule that would get users banned, first temporrily, and then permanent for repeated offenses. Also, some will say it's not easy to always identify AI-generated content, but, whenever it's done, as we can see in the thread I mentioned above, at least then some action should be taken.

I totally agree with the spirit of your post. The only difference is how hard you want to go against AI garbage, and it is just a matter of technicalities. The hidden idea (more of a concern) behind OP is 'it is getting very difficult to differentiate between AI and human and things are only going to get worse'.I mean, this is the ultimate goal of any AI, think and act like a human(ideal). What about people who will learn everything from the internet? Which will be 90% synthetic data? They will start copying AI style as standard, imagine the mess.
I am sure that many senior quality posters are feeling the need to scan their own original post through AI detectors just to be sure that someone can't intrepret  that as AI. This is how ridiculous AI and human differentiation has become, and it is just the beginning. Most senior members here have read actual books and have debated with actual humans and we got to preserve that at any cost. I will not be surprised if tommorow human written text will be more expensive and therofore more rarer, just because of mindless AI outputs.    

That's why writing as a conduit of your mind is a much better style that writing correctly.

Many years ago I read a james jocye novel unlesyes [ spelled wrong] said to myself what the fuck is this shit.

And here we are 50 or 55 years later and that stream of consciousness style is very very very good at fighting AI.

My fear of ai is that it gets to the point that it is fully equal to human writing.


There was a short sci fi story of how writers all wrote with ai pcs. And the heros ai was defective or broken so he wrote on his own.  He became a hit. It w a s a very good read. And here we are 50  years later and that story looks more and more important.

I WILL TRY TO FIND THAT STORY.


https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/39904269-so-bright-the-vision


I loved reading this stuff back in the day.

If you can find this read it.

[dkbit98]

Control. Imagine the power you get over people if you can get them to read whatever automated BS you come up with!

Problem is that we are already living that reality without even knowing it... and people actually support more use of AI generated content everywhere...
I know most people are lazy this days but this can be very dangerous in future.

I think we're getting very close to this point, it's easy for a bot to produce many times more content than any person could ever do.

Bots also doesn't have to sleep or eat, and they never get tired.

The weirdest part is humans are doing it. Humans want this to happen. When the point comes that AI is able to reproduce itself, then they'll do an even better job of it, but I don't think we're quite there yet.

I totally agree with what you said, and I would add that most of humanity is mentally ill today.

[Vod]

I can only encourage chatbots to destroy themselves, so I don't have to read their verbal diarrhea.

I wanted to reply to this, but first I read the rest of the conversation.  Then you backed the point I was going to make.

I think we're getting very close to this point, it's easy for a bot to produce many times more content than any person could ever do.

Why did the creators of the AI chatbot think more is better?   Were they all enrolled in bitcointalk signature campaigns?    You can tell a chat bot when it uses fifty words when twenty would do. 

I will never claim the words of an AI are mine, because I don't use AI to communicate with other humans.   I ask AI to find old movies or books I can't remember the name of, or to write a recursive function without relearning recursiveness, etc.    I am already reliant on AI to lead a semi-normal life compared to what I had previously.   I know how to code, and the AI doesn't invent new features for me, but it does syntax check and do repetitive work (like error correction and resource cleanup).

Problem is that we are already living that reality without even knowing it... and people actually support more use of AI generated content everywhere...

Lazy people, ignorant people, people without a novel idea in their entire life.   Those people will never lead or innovate, so they can be safely ignored.

[Sandra_hakeem]

Many years ago I read a james jocye novel unlesyes [ spelled wrong] said to myself what the fuck is this shit.

And here we are 50 or 55 years later and that stream of consciousness style is very very very good at fighting AI.

"Then just when you think it's a reliable chunk of wood to hold on to; the waves hit and it appears you had a tight grip on a debris".

Unfortunately, I don't hope for anything better, but if it goes as far as immitating the human writing, with exact flaws, typos and that naturally-resonated pattern of logic(like I said earlier on), then we'll be left with an option to only trust hand-written letters (I'm not surprised if this doesn't work as well)

My fear of ai is that it gets to the point that it is fully equal to human writing.

If what you mean "fully equal to human writing" correlates with my previous points, then I think they'll be working directly against the essence of having AI models in the first place.  "Perefcetion" is all they want I guess. I'm sick! Did you just add to my library of unread books?   just kidding, always happy to read