SFR10
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May 12, 2025, 11:29:19 AM |
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Also, I fully expect there to be bugs I haven't noticed, so please let me know if you find anything and I'll fix it as soon as I can. Let me know what you think!
I spent a few minutes and noticed that SATMiner sometimes doesn't send mined coins to newly changed worker addresses [the temporary solution seems to be to stop the process, then start it again]. BTW, may I know why the Pay To field on Saturn Core requests clipboard read access, but the withdrawal address field on SatEx doesn't? - I don't think anyone is fine with giving your platform/website that kind of access, so you should change that part!
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askii (OP)
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May 12, 2025, 12:01:39 PM Last edit: May 12, 2025, 12:12:47 PM by askii |
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BTW, may I know why the Pay To field on Saturn Core requests clipboard read access, but the withdrawal address field on SatEx doesn't? - I don't think anyone is fine with giving your platform/website that kind of access, so you should change that part!
Whoops, that's my bad! I must've made that field readonly ages ago and just never realised. Should be fixed now, thanks for bringing it to my attention, you're right. I spent a few minutes and noticed that SATMiner sometimes doesn't send mined coins to newly changed worker addresses [the temporary solution seems to be to stop the process, then start it again].
I'm guessing what's happened here is that you've changed the address on one of your devices while the others are still running? Each device can be configured with unique settings, including being able to send it's coinbase reward to a unique address, as you might want to, for example, run a lucky solo miner while some of your other devices mine passive income through pools. Anytime you find a block, the game rolls the dice using the hashrates of your devices to figure out which device was the "winner", and the reward is paid out to the address set for that device. So I think it was just random chance and when you changed it, it looked like it was paying to the wrong address. But correct me if that wasn't the scenario because that seems like a pretty big issue that I need to recreate.
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proofofwork.gg (https://proofofwork.gg) | Bitcointalk Topic (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5538065.0)
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arabspaceship123
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May 13, 2025, 08:02:21 AM |
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I've checked it again you've done more work on your proof of work game it's cool. You should register how many ppl visit. I don't understand why you're using windows xp effects. Your program's about bitcoin not Win XP. A little update on this - I've got a "playable" prototype up and running over on: https://proof-of-work.net [a few tiny things don't render properly on FireFox, and Tor doesn't like to load fonts]"Playable" in quotes because it's still not much of an actual game just yet, but I figured I'd deploy what I have just so people can have a look-see. Things on my todo list right now: - Actual tutorial - I'll admit, right now the game's a bit intimidating and not super intuitive
- Better balancing/progression
- Device wear/tear from overheating
- Mining pools
- RingNET forum (this will take forever
) - Integrating the progression and components of real bitcoin history
- Lose condition, probably not being able to pay your bills
- More things that will probably come up (stats, and so on)
I'll come up with an actual fleshed out roadmap at some point. What you can do right now: - Change your wallpaper!
 - Scope out the UI and try mining some coins
- Take a look at the exchange, try out trading
- Buy devices to increase your hashrate (4 you can buy at the moment, there's more but they need to be layered into the 'story' and historical progression, GPUs/FPGAs/ASICSs etc)
- Use the ℹ️ info mode to learn about parts of the system (mostly in SATMiner for now). I will add a Clippy-esque character soon, I promise
 - If you're feeling fancy and are able to figure it out, try to 51% attack the network and pull off a double spend.
Saving isn't implemented yet since difficulty ramps up fast, and without mining pools, you'll probably hit a dead end after like 10-15 minutes. Refreshing will reset everything for now. Also, I fully expect there to be bugs I haven't noticed, so please let me know if you find anything and I'll fix it as soon as I can. Let me know what you think!
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SFR10
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May 13, 2025, 09:29:13 AM |
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Should be fixed now, thanks for bringing it to my attention, you're right.
You're very welcome and thank you as well for fixing it right away  I'm guessing what's happened here is that you've changed the address on one of your devices while the others are still running?
This is what happened the very first time, but the second time, I'm pretty sure I stopped the mining process on all of the miners... Having said that, I had no luck in reproducing it today [I'll screencast it if I experience it again].
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askii (OP)
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May 13, 2025, 12:21:41 PM |
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I've checked it again you've done more work on your proof of work game it's cool. You should register how many ppl visit. I don't understand why you're using windows xp effects. Your program's about bitcoin not Win XP.
Well, it's nostalgic right? It's supposed to take you back in time to the early days of bitcoin, outdated, clunky software UI and websites... It's also part of the "aesthetic", I think it's nice eye-candy personally at least. Hit counter is cool, I'll see if I can do that some way without needing to use some sort of third party api or something. This is what happened the very first time, but the second time, I'm pretty sure I stopped the mining process on all of the miners... Having said that, I had no luck in reproducing it today [I'll screencast it if I experience it again].
I monitored them for a few minutes [I also restarted the page to make sure difficulty was low] and strongly believe rewards weren't going to any address at that time. The first address that I set was from the Saturn Core and the next one was from SatEx [I had to do it due to the clipboard issue that was present at that moment].
Thanks for taking the time to try and recreate it regardless. I must admit it is very odd, as I've never experienced that happening even once (I almost always split addresses between workers when I'm testing stuff, out of habit). Do you recall if the SATMiner actually showed that you had mined the block in the output log? Example: [INFO] (SOLVED) #295 | 0000001f41ea7c44b0cfa7eb92a5fb8730beadcf7fe581d7359a7aa909d13170 Either way I'll be on the lookout for it happening 
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proofofwork.gg (https://proofofwork.gg) | Bitcointalk Topic (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5538065.0)
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arabspaceship123
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May 13, 2025, 05:02:22 PM |
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For eye candy your Proof of Work project's fun because it's a reminder of early years. If ppl mined bitcoin at home they'll like your aesthetic honesty. How many ppl using crypto today knew about bitcoin in 2010 ? Well, it's nostalgic right? It's supposed to take you back in time to the early days of bitcoin, outdated, clunky software UI and websites... It's also part of the "aesthetic", I think it's nice eye-candy personally at least.
Hit counter is cool, I'll see if I can do that some way without needing to use some sort of third party api or something.
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NeuroticFish
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Looking for campaign manager? Contact icopress!
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May 13, 2025, 05:58:53 PM |
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I like the idea a lot and I wish you get real traction with this game. The idea is cool, you seem very active and wanting to do the right thing. A great combo that deserves success. I've bookmarked it and I will most probably try it out when I'll get a bit more free time.
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stwenhao
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there's not really much to do once the last sat has been mined Oh, there are many scenarios, which could happen in theory in that case. 1. Constant block reorganizations, to grab the last "new" satoshi, which didn't have any previous owner. 2. Changing the model of the coin, to synchronize from the point, where all coins are already pre-assigned, and only change hands. 3. Using the chain as a notarization platform, to commit to some data, even without moving any coins. 4. Moving the chain forward, to unlock some timelocked transactions or coins. 5. Working on some puzzles, if it would be more profitable to break a puzzle, than to mine a new block. 6. Introducing any coin-in-a-coin scheme, where you peg another coin to the chain, and exchange between the mainchain, and the sidechain. And probably much, much more. You can see, what is going on with testnet3, where almost all coins were mined. You can see, how testnet miners can get a lot of coins, for confirming a lot of spam on-chain. And you can also see, how some sidechains create no coins out of thin air, and which strategies they picked, to make it stable, when they have to focus only on transaction fees. for now my attention and focus will primarily be on singleplayer Then you can try to build your game on top of regtest. In this case, each player starts from the Genesis Block, and can test a lot of strategies, without disturbing other players. Making it multiplayer can be hard, because many test networks failed to keep being worthless. Now, testnet3 and testnet4 coins are traded, and new testnets may also be. Signet is another option, but then, players won't be able to mine blocks by themselves. Also, there already are some multiplayer games, like RollerCoin and, as you can see, real coins are involved. And if you want to avoid that, then it is hard to make a good, multiplayer game, where coins will stay worthless (because even Bitcoin Core developers failed to do so, and there are still some discussions, how to make a better testnet).
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askii (OP)
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May 14, 2025, 06:18:46 AM Last edit: May 15, 2025, 11:00:33 AM by askii |
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for now my attention and focus will primarily be on singleplayer Then you can try to build your game on top of regtest. In this case, each player starts from the Genesis Block, and can test a lot of strategies, without disturbing other players. Making it multiplayer can be hard, because many test networks failed to keep being worthless. Now, testnet3 and testnet4 coins are traded, and new testnets may also be. Signet is another option, but then, players won't be able to mine blocks by themselves. Also, there already are some multiplayer games, like RollerCoin and, as you can see, real coins are involved. And if you want to avoid that, then it is hard to make a good, multiplayer game, where coins will stay worthless (because even Bitcoin Core developers failed to do so, and there are still some discussions, how to make a better testnet). Just to clarify - I'm not building this on top of the real bitcoin network or regtest/testnet(s). it's a faux chain in a self-contained JS simulation, in which I'm trying to capture all the important and interesting things about the blockchain without the complexity of it being tied to actual Bitcoin (and also doesn't require you to actually run a real miner  ). As previously linked, it's up on https://proofofwork.gg if you want to give it a quick spin to get a better idea of what it is. My goal ultimately for this game is probably to be somewhere like 70% between something super casual and idle like Rollercoin, and something real like regtest(leaning towards realism and regtest), to where the player can actually learn about proof of work mining in a hands on, but approachable (and appealing) way, where they might learn about the inner workings of a blockchain without even realising it  . And as you said, multiplayer is hard but it's okay because I can postpone that indefinitely at least for now  . 1. Constant block reorganizations, to grab the last "new" satoshi, which didn't have any previous owner. 2. Changing the model of the coin, to synchronize from the point, where all coins are already pre-assigned, and only change hands. 3. Using the chain as a notarization platform, to commit to some data, even without moving any coins. 4. Moving the chain forward, to unlock some timelocked transactions or coins. 5. Working on some puzzles, if it would be more profitable to break a puzzle, than to mine a new block. 6. Introducing any coin-in-a-coin scheme, where you peg another coin to the chain, and exchange between the mainchain, and the sidechain.
And probably much, much more. You can see, what is going on with testnet3, where almost all coins were mined. You can see, how testnet miners can get a lot of coins, for confirming a lot of spam on-chain. And you can also see, how some sidechains create no coins out of thin air, and which strategies they picked, to make it stable, when they have to focus only on transaction fees.
This is actually really interesting, and I was probably too short sighted in my original statement. Like I said multiplayer is still definitely out of scope for me right now but some of these ideas hold some pretty convincing arguments for a multiplayer game like that having an afterlife!
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proofofwork.gg (https://proofofwork.gg) | Bitcointalk Topic (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5538065.0)
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askii (OP)
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May 14, 2025, 11:16:32 AM Last edit: May 14, 2025, 12:59:33 PM by askii |
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You should register how many ppl visit.
Just added this, you can see it at the bottom of the home page of the WebKit Navigator (the ' UsersVisits: x' field). It counts page loads, not unique visits, for the sake of simplicity 
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DookieMcSniffer
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May 16, 2025, 04:07:56 AM |
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This is a sick concept! I'm def going to give it a play this afternoon! Do you think it's intuitive enough for me to show my kids (12 & 14) as an intro to btc history?
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askii (OP)
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May 17, 2025, 02:08:23 AM |
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This is a sick concept! I'm def going to give it a play this afternoon! Do you think it's intuitive enough for me to show my kids (12 & 14) as an intro to btc history?
I mean it's probably too incomplete right now for that to be worthwhile for them, but it's up to you  I'm working on adding more content in the background and crossing stuff on my to-do list but it'll be a while before a real demo is ready. Long term though, my goal is to make exactly that. Blockchain education is something that's become really important to me, and making a fun game about it is exactly what I want to do - maybe this can be the "Kerbal Space Program" of Bitcoin 
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joniboini
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May 17, 2025, 04:26:49 AM |
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Nice project. I visited your website with a dark reader extension enabled, and it seems to make the background black. If I disable it it shows just fine but the "app" window is too bright to my taste. Is there any plan to make a native dark mode or something similar in the future? I don't think it is a priority, but it would be nice if I could see the page in dark mode comfortably. Sorry if I missed that.
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askii (OP)
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May 17, 2025, 07:58:55 AM |
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Nice project. I visited your website with a dark reader extension enabled, and it seems to make the background black. If I disable it it shows just fine but the "app" window is too bright to my taste. Is there any plan to make a native dark mode or something similar in the future? I don't think it is a priority, but it would be nice if I could see the page in dark mode comfortably. Sorry if I missed that.
I've fixed the background not showing up, but I guess DarkReader is somewhat limited in what it can do because brightness/contrast changes seem to not impact some UI elements including the wallpaper. I'll add a native darkmode to my list of things to do, I'll probably push a version in the next few days with a proper settings menu to also adjust volume and stuff as well.
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proofofwork.gg (https://proofofwork.gg) | Bitcointalk Topic (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5538065.0)
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stwenhao
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May 18, 2025, 09:54:42 AM |
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Why sending to myself is "invalid transaction"? It is a normal thing in Bitcoin, and it may be profitable to consolidate UTXOs, by sending your coins to yourself, to avoid higher transaction fees in the future.
Edit: By the way, the original client created a different address for each and every coinbase transaction, so it was not that obvious, who owned what, if you analyzed the chain. And in general, a single user had a lot of addresses.
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askii (OP)
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May 18, 2025, 11:22:41 AM |
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Why sending to myself is "invalid transaction"? It is a normal thing in Bitcoin, and it may be profitable to consolidate UTXOs, by sending your coins to yourself, to avoid higher transaction fees in the future.
Edit: By the way, the original client created a different address for each and every coinbase transaction, so it was not that obvious, who owned what, if you analyzed the chain. And in general, a single user had a lot of addresses.
Yeah, I'm aware. There's just no point in spending to yourself right now because individual UTXOs are not simulated (there is nothing to consolidate), I mentioned this somewhere in the original post: Regarding the full simulation aspect — It seems a bit pointless to me to simulate and record every single UTXO that is created and manage scriptPubKeys and scriptSigs, yada yada yada (though, I am still very much open to hearing suggestions about how to incorporate this type of stuff in gameplay). I’ve managed to compress every block into about 16 bytes (though i’ll likely be optimising this further to make space for other stuff), and everything is generated and assigned deterministically to keep the game feeling realistic/immersive but also very lightweight
What I also mentioned in the post is BIPs being introduced as you play over time (e.g., an HD address update to your wallet, consensus softforks with new address types, etc). Anyhow I think there's a spot for a higher level simulation of UTXOs somewhere (as you mentioned, privacy and such). I'm going to add a 'coinjoin' mechanic in future versions and this will pair nicely with that, but at the moment it wouldn't make a lot of sense to the average casual player. In the final game, things will more than likely be a lot more accurate to the real thing (including what you've described), right now this is something of a test run/proof of concept. You might've also noticed the coinbases don't include block fees yet (and also transactions incur zero fees), that's something I want to soon implement/model with real bitcoin historical data. Also, on a side point, I've added this now, it's in the start menu. I'll add a native darkmode to my list of things to do, I'll probably push a version in the next few days with a proper settings menu to also adjust volume and stuff as well.
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proofofwork.gg (https://proofofwork.gg) | Bitcointalk Topic (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5538065.0)
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stwenhao
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May 18, 2025, 01:16:46 PM |
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I wondered, why there are around 300 blocks initially mined. Now I think I know why: because when I reorganized the chain, and my minority fork won, then it was no longer possible to buy any coins from the exchange, and it failed with "Unknown Error: Transaction failed". Now I am trying to test some edge cases, like "what happens, when I will keep reorging everyone else's blocks all the time, and all coins will be mine". But as I can see, the rest of the network can catch up quite quickly, because the best miners have only 54 MH/s, and the network can grow faster, than I can purchase and run them. I also wonder, if the exchange rate should always go upwards in the long-term. Because if 300 initial blocks are reorged with 100 stronger blocks, on top of the Genesis Block, then I guess it would affect the prize as well (and I would rather expect something like miner exodus, rather than constant growth, and ignoring the attacker, as if nothing happened). There's just no point in spending to yourself right now because individual UTXOs are not simulated Well, in general, if this exchange is trustworthy, and you can send coins only between yourself, and the exchange, then there is no point in having your own address at all. Mining on exchange's address works much better in that case, because you can do everything, without touching the Core client, and there are no problems like "exchange hack". higher level simulation of UTXOs somewhere (as you mentioned, privacy and such) Not only that. Some BIPs, like P2SH, introduced sending to Script-based addresses. Which means, that you would need some kind of Script implementation (which is hard by the way, and even in the official client, you don't have GUI-based scripting, but only some console-based stuff). I'm going to add a 'coinjoin' mechanic in future versions Well, as long as this game is single-player (or as long as you are playing only against single exchange, and nobody else), there is no need for any kind of CoinJoin. If you have two users (you, and the computer), then everyone knows, who owns what (if a given coin is not mine, then it belongs to the bot; and if the bot would be "aware", then it could use the same reasoning). right now this is something of a test run/proof of concept Yes, for version 1.0, I think it is very impressive. I am still trying to test some edge cases, but in general, it works much better than I expected.
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askii (OP)
Jr. Member
Offline
Activity: 44
Merit: 95
better with code than with words
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May 19, 2025, 09:15:11 AM |
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Now I am trying to test some edge cases, like "what happens, when I will keep reorging everyone else's blocks all the time, and all coins will be mine". But as I can see, the rest of the network can catch up quite quickly, because the best miners have only 54 MH/s, and the network can grow faster, than I can purchase and run them.
Yeah, I'll add more devices soon, mirroring the dawn of FPGAs and ASICs. I also wonder, if the exchange rate should always go upwards in the long-term. Because if 300 initial blocks are reorged with 100 stronger blocks, on top of the Genesis Block, then I guess it would affect the prize as well (and I would rather expect something like miner exodus, rather than constant growth, and ignoring the attacker, as if nothing happened).
It doesn't always go up in the long term, it just does a lot at the start to make the introduction more engaging, allowing you to buy devices and stuff. The price broadly follows a set of milestones right now, like this: [ { 'time': 0, 'price': 0.05 }, { 'time': 100, 'price': 0.08 }, { 'time': 240, 'price': 0.6 }, { 'time': 700, 'price': 2.5 }, { 'time': 2038, 'price': 20 }, ... etc] It can be tweaked in the short term to briefly respond to player actions (like a successful attack) which is something I will be adding moving forwards, in addition to, for example, exchanges etc increasing their deposit confirmation time, and even community hardforks if you pull off attacks enough times. Well, in general, if this exchange is trustworthy, and you can send coins only between yourself, and the exchange, then there is no point in having your own address at all. Mining on exchange's address works much better in that case, because you can do everything, without touching the Core client, and there are no problems like "exchange hack". - Well, as long as this game is single-player (or as long as you are playing only against single exchange, and nobody else), there is no need for any kind of CoinJoin. If you have two users (you, and the computer), then everyone knows, who owns what (if a given coin is not mine, then it belongs to the bot; and if the bot would be "aware", then it could use the same reasoning).
Well that's the thing, SatEx mirrors MtGox, I think you can predict what will happen in game...  (when I implement that hack/crash and more exchanges). So what I mean by coinjoin is purely for gameplay purposes - e.g., as you're playing in the later stages, governments will try to track you and "confiscate" your coins, so you buy a coinjoin upgrade to cover your tracks and mix up your outputs. At the bottom of the core client, you can also see the number of connected peers, later on, this will be relevant when "attackers" spam your node with bad information and try to DDoS you, and you need to go into the console or what have you and block/ban those peers. These are all mini games basically. Not only that. Some BIPs, like P2SH, introduced sending to Script-based addresses. Which means, that you would need some kind of Script implementation (which is hard by the way, and even in the official client, you don't have GUI-based scripting, but only some console-based stuff).
Yeah this could be quite cool, I think more on the other end though, instead of letting the player create p2sh transactions, perhaps they can find some mysterious p2sh transactions sitting in blocks like little puzzles that they can claim the outputs of if they can solve it. E.g., they might get DMs from a user on the RingNET forum telling them about a suspicious transaction they spotted on the chain and its TXID, and that's kind of like a clue to look into it further. Yes, for version 1.0, I think it is very impressive. I am still trying to test some edge cases, but in general, it works much better than I expected.
Yeah cheers man, I appreciate all of your insight and feedback!
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proofofwork.gg (https://proofofwork.gg) | Bitcointalk Topic (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5538065.0)
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joniboini
Legendary
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Activity: 2590
Merit: 1837
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May 20, 2025, 02:19:07 AM |
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I've fixed the background not showing up, but I guess DarkReader is somewhat limited in what it can do because brightness/contrast changes seem to not impact some UI elements including the wallpaper. I'll add a native darkmode to my list of things to do, I'll probably push a version in the next few days with a proper settings menu to also adjust volume and stuff as well.
That's good to hear. Yeah, they have other algorithms to filter which things to filter (in the theme generation part), and users can customize it with CSS, but I believe most of them won't bother with it. A native dark mode would be much better for them. It's hard to expect them to stay and try things out if they can't see some parts of the UI.
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stwenhao
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May 20, 2025, 03:44:48 AM |
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How to save a game, to load it later?  Reaching 3k blocks again, and waiting for 6 halvings, will take some time.
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