Banned members should be indicated on their profile summary

[examplens]

And it would be easier to know if a user is banned or not simply by checking his profile summary. I believe a fix like this would help Fillipone continue his good services with a bit of ease and it would also make the forum profile summary a bit richer.

What are your thoughts on this?.

The BPIP.org extension is still working. With a recent Chrome update, some extensions got disabled by default. One of the affected extensions is bpip.org. If you are using chrome, you would have to manually re-enable it or just use Firefox

The suggestion you have made has been put up so many times and I guess Theymos is not willing to add anything. My suggestion is that you use the third party extension for now.

Here is a link https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5224821.0
I use it, although I don't think it's ideal in this case, because it doesn't always show the real situation. It seems that there are different reasons for a ban, and not everyone is treated the same. I also saw some that were not recognized by this extension.

[The Cryptovator]

Probably, Theymos will not implement this on the user profile, at least not recently. It doesn't make any difference, actually, whether users are marked as banned or not. Most probably, theymos don't want to underestimate banned users contributions to the forum. Let's say a trusted and reputed user has been banned for some reason; definitely other users will take it negatively and may hate him as well. We may ignore participation in discussions on banned users threads as well, even if it's informative and useful. I am just expressing my thoughts; theymos thoughts would be different.

Also, you can see on some boards the red tag hasn't been visible. If it was visible then also, we may ignore red-tag users posts and hate him as well. Even the post that is informative and useful, we may just ignore. Probably for the same reason, theymos don't want to show the banned mark on the profile.

[logfiles]

Unless this has changed, those bans are only from "autobans" that are done to newbie (?) accounts

This account was autobanned today, and it's a member account from 2017--> husnanparebok So it clearly doesn't happen to only newbie accounts. Maybe you meant to say "Nuke"

IIRC, the fact that someone is banned is not public because theymos doens't want people potentially trying to impersonate banned users to make it look like they are evading a ban.

Still doesn't make sense if the records are visible in the mod log that is public. It would make a bit of sense if it was only accessible to the mods and admins.

I use it, although I don't think it's ideal in this case, because it doesn't always show the real situation. It seems that there are different reasons for a ban, and not everyone is treated the same. I also saw some that were not recognized by this extension.

Temporary bans, perhaps?

[uchegod-21]

IIRC, the fact that someone is banned is not public because theymos doens't want people potentially trying to impersonate banned users to make it look like they are evading a ban.

The most valid reason I can agree with.
If this happens, there would be alot of drama in the meta board.

[logfiles]

The most valid reason I can agree with.
If this happens, there would be alot of drama in the meta board.

But the banned accounts are public. Information can easily be accessed by anyone from modlog, Loyce.club and bpip. Why isn't there any drama in meta yet?
If impersonation was such a serious thing here, then that means even inactive accounts would be much prone to this, but this is not even happening often and even when it does, the DT members can easily notice the impersonating account and tag it.

[uchegod-21]

The most valid reason I can agree with.
If this happens, there would be alot of drama in the meta board.

But the banned accounts are public. Information can easily be accessed by anyone from modlog, Loyce.club and bpip. Why isn't there any drama in meta yet?
If impersonation was such a serious thing here, then that means even inactive accounts would be much prone to this, but this is not even happening often and even when it does, the DT members can easily notice the impersonating account and tag it.

Ban information can easily be accessed by you and some other good users of the forum. The no-brainers will easily come up with abuse if it is directly displayed on the profile. Making small efforts to see the logs might be difficult for them.
Besides, theymos is not a fan of implementing much things that third party tools can handle.
DT members will surely discover impersonation, but it will take some drama before it will be discovered. This is because the banned account won't immediately raise alarm, unless by creating an alt.

[LoyceV]

Maybe, but I personally find it useless to send merit to any of those accounts as they can't send merit back to other members, meaning its wasted.

I guess it depends on your perspective: if you're a Merit source who "struggles" to empty his source, any good post is worth it. But if you have 1 sMerit left, I get that you'd rather send it to an active user with equally good posts.

I try not to send merit to banned accounts

I don't keep track of bans while Meriting, but based on this list I've been lucky in the past 180 days
I'm surprised to see so little Merit sent to banned users, that list used to be a lot longer.

[hugeblack]

I try not to send merit to banned accounts

I don't see any problem with sending merit to banned accounts as it is for high quality posts regardless of the account status.
But priority will be given to unbanned accounts as that means 0.5 sMerit that may be available.

[Sandra_hakeem]

Banned accounts, inactive accounts, accounts from died people are all deserved to receive merit for all good posts they have ver made before bans, deaths or dormancy.

Maybe, but I personally find it useless to send merit to any of those accounts as they can't send merit back to other members, meaning its wasted.

Well, this is exactly why the whole merit system has several different approaches, which is entirely based on the giver's discretion.
For me, Unless it's a huge proposal thread (could be technical related), or a function for adjustment on the some forum features, I can't send any merit.

If impersonation was such a serious thing here, then that means even inactive accounts would be much prone to this, but this is not even happening often and even when it does, the DT members can easily notice the impersonating account and tag it.

But wait a second, how do you impersonate an account that has been banned? Like, for what reason? If trying to keep the user's profile low-key is what comes to their mind, then what better profile does a banned account have? (Again unless it was for very special reasons/request)

[philipma1957]

You can raise your concern and ask for a SMF patch in Little things that bug you/me about the forum.

PowerGlove will take a look and add it to his to-do list (or not), but make sure you check whether it was asked there before.

You seem to understand it incorrectly, users can be banned but can be online. Banned users can log in accounts, read forum posts and are Online, but only are not allowed to post.

And there are a few real legal reasons for this.

One the banned user may have an extensive business list in his pm's and locking him out of the pm's is a problem for legal reason.

He may need to use an address or what ever else is in the pm's

[skarais]

~~~

I don't keep track of bans while Meriting, but based on this list I've been lucky in the past 180 days
I'm surprised to see so little Merit sent to banned users, that list used to be a lot longer.

I have checked the list and found that 30 users sent merit to permabanned users. Some of them may not realize it or they sent it intentionally for various reasons, ABCbits and fillippone lead the list by sending 54 and 14 merit. I personally am not surprised why the list is not as long as before, one of the reasons I would say is because many users can actually recognize users who have been permabanned because of the tools they use and some others because of changes in behavior or changes in mindset where they only want to distribute to active users so that it remains in circulation.

Like this one:

[β] BPIP Extension: user info & extra features add-on/extension, Firefox/Chrome

~~~

I don't see any problem with sending merit to banned accounts as it is for high quality posts regardless of the account status.
But priority will be given to unbanned accounts as that means 0.5 sMerit that may be available.

I also don't mind it so far, it's because every sender has their own reasons why they need to send merit to that user and one of them is as an appreciation for quality posts as you said. In the list of Top senders to permabanned users, last 180 days it seems you are in 5th place out of 30 users by sending 4 merit to permabanned users.

[Shadiq]

I have checked the list and found that 30 users sent merit to permabanned users. Some of them may not realize it or they sent it intentionally for various reasons, ABCbits and fillippone lead the list by sending 54 and 14 merit. I personally am not surprised why the list is not as long as before, one of the reasons I would say is because many users can actually recognize users who have been permabanned because of the tools they use and some others because of changes in behavior or changes in mindset where they only want to distribute to active users so that it remains in circulation.

The number of people who have sent merits to permanently banned accounts may be higher. Here is a list of the top 30. I can't say exactly how many, but if the full list is published, the number will probably increase and I estimate it to be more than 50. Identifying banned accounts is very difficult. But if you have a lot of merits, you can give merit to high-quality posters instead of looking at user profiles. Because, merit is not for a profile, but for good posts.

[skarais]

~~~

The number of people who have sent merits to permanently banned accounts may be higher. Here is a list of the top 30. I can't say exactly how many, but if the full list is published, the number will probably increase and I estimate it to be more than 50.

Of course, the number of users sending merit to permanently banned users is much higher if all the data is public. Unfortunately, I don't have access to the data and I don't know the exact number. But someone like LoyceV or DdmrDdmr might be able to help if their tools record it periodically. But what's the purpose?

Identifying banned accounts is very difficult.

It's not as hard as you might think. Use a tool to identify them like the bpip extension or find out the full list from loyce.club.

https://loyce.club/bans/banned.html

But if you have a lot of merits, you can give merit to high-quality posters instead of looking at user profiles. Because, merit is not for a profile, but for good posts.

I tried to do my best, but here is the data so far based on bpip.org even though I'm not a merit source. I don't look at profiles, of course, but I have to limit the scale so that my contribution goal of helping users rank up for their quality posts is achieved.

Has sent 1007 merit 895 times, to 220 profiles

[LoyceV]

Of course, the number of users sending merit to permanently banned users is much higher if all the data is public. Unfortunately, I don't have access to the data and I don't know the exact number.

The last data I have is from August 2023 (and I'm not planning to update it again).

[examplens]

I have checked the list and found that 30 users sent merit to permabanned users. Some of them may not realize it or they sent it intentionally for various reasons, ABCbits and fillippone lead the list by sending 54 and 14 merit. I personally am not surprised why the list is not as long as before, one of the reasons I would say is because many users can actually recognize users who have been permabanned because of the tools they use and some others because of changes in behavior or changes in mindset where they only want to distribute to active users so that it remains in circulation.

The number of people who have sent merits to permanently banned accounts may be higher. Here is a list of the top 30. I can't say exactly how many, but if the full list is published, the number will probably increase and I estimate it to be more than 50. Identifying banned accounts is very difficult. But if you have a lot of merits, you can give merit to high-quality posters instead of looking at user profiles. Because, merit is not for a profile, but for good posts.

How can we even distinguish whether merits were sent before or after the ban? Most of the merit was probably sent while the discussion was active (this is most common with merit sources like ABCbits and fillippone), and the ban came only after some investigation by other members.

[Btcdeybodi]

I support your motion as it's actually not making any meaning without knowing ban profiles and especially sending out merits to them while the already existing users needs it more than the banned accounts, though there is nothing bad giving out merits to ban account for their quality post but to me it seems to be waste and burning down the total circulation of merits.

I don't agree with you on this, if a user was once helpful and productive to the community through their posts and he/she got banned as a result of breaking forum rules, i don't think it is wrong to come across a quality post they once made and not award it merit if they are found merit worthy. Merit is for quality posts regardless of whether an account is flagged, red tagged, banned, inactive and so forth. Therefore giving merit to a banned account should not be restricted or prohibited. Merit represents an award for quality and productive posts made in the forum not minding the status of the user to which the merit is being awarded to.

[virasog]

I came accross few members who are having temporal signature bans on bpip.org and decided to visit their profiles. To my surprise, their was no difference between them and unbanned users who are just offline since their "Current status" shows just "Offline" and there was no indication of their ban appearing on their profile summary. This has caused a perceived difficulty like the one below:

So we are taking about the Signature ban users here ? As far as I understand, someone who is banned from wearing a signature can still post and do other activities on the forum, correct ? So there is no point in showing them as Signature banned on their profiles. Although most of these people would leave the forum once they know they couldn't put a signature and hence cannot participate in campaigns.

I don't see any problem with sending merit to banned accounts as it is for high quality posts regardless of the account status.
But priority will be given to unbanned accounts as that means 0.5 sMerit that may be available.

Can't the signature banned send the merits ?

[PX-Z]

I support your motion as it's actually not making any meaning without knowing ban profiles and especially sending out merits to them while the already existing users needs it more than the banned accounts, though there is nothing bad giving out merits to ban account for their quality post but to me it seems to be waste and burning down the total circulation of merits.

I don't agree with you on this, if a user was once helpful and productive to the community through their posts and he/she got banned as a result of breaking forum rules, i don't think it is wrong to come across a quality post they once made and not award it merit if they are found merit worthy. Merit is for quality posts regardless of whether an account is flagged, red tagged, banned, inactive and so forth. Therefore giving merit to a banned account should not be restricted or prohibited. Merit represents an award for quality and productive posts made in the forum not minding the status of the user to which the merit is being awarded to.

Maybe the best approach is to balance it, don't deliberately focus on banned accounts, but if you genuinely find a post helpful, giving it merit still honors the contribution (post), not the person.
In the end, it's about rewarding information and effort, not necessarily the current status of the user.

[Zwei]

If impersonation was such a serious thing here, then that means even inactive accounts would be much prone to this, but this is not even happening often and even when it does, the DT members can easily notice the impersonating account and tag it.

impersonating an inactive account is just stupid, like why would someone come back active from a new account instead of just using their original one?
and in the case of banned accounts, it's even more stupid. if someone tries to impersonate a banned account, i would imagine they will get nuked for ban evasion soon after.

Can't the signature banned send the merits ?

signatures have nothing to do with merits system, so yes.

[icebar]

I support your motion as it's actually not making any meaning without knowing ban profiles and especially sending out merits to them while the already existing users needs it more than the banned accounts, though there is nothing bad giving out merits to ban account for their quality post but to me it seems to be waste and burning down the total circulation of merits.

I don't agree with you on this, if a user was once helpful and productive to the community through their posts and he/she got banned as a result of breaking forum rules, i don't think it is wrong to come across a quality post they once made and not award it merit if they are found merit worthy. Merit is for quality posts regardless of whether an account is flagged, red tagged, banned, inactive and so forth. Therefore giving merit to a banned account should not be restricted or prohibited. Merit represents an award for quality and productive posts made in the forum not minding the status of the user to which the merit is being awarded to.

Sending out merits to banned accounts is not a crime if they are quality posters but we should consider sending merit to those accounts will only waste of the merits. If someone doesn't want to waste merit it is appropriate to ‍send another active good poster. Again, it is true when evaluating a good post, we cannot neglect sending merits. Whatever we think can be done based on the quality of the post and the discretion of the merit sender. In my perspective it is worthless to encourage deceased person.