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Author Topic: How to fix bitcoin  (Read 9163 times)
QuantPlus
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April 09, 2011, 11:39:47 PM
 #81

This discussion is now about how to "fix" Bitcoin.

$5,875,000 may sound nice and be "exponential"...
But it's a "small, disappointing Christmas bonus" on Wall Street.

The big mistake I see is the $40-50 "lottery" payout methodology...
Which is aimed at Bot Nets and Western geeks.

Consider, if a man could generate $0.25-0.50/day STEADY...
And in Eurasia a big loaf of bread costs about $0.10...
And if 10,000,000 people had $10 in BitCoins...
All of the sudden you are looking at $100,000,000...
And then it only starts to grow.

Get every Third World bazaar to use BitCoins...
And it becomes an existential threat to all Governments.
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MoonShadow
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April 09, 2011, 11:48:59 PM
 #82

This discussion is now about how to "fix" Bitcoin.


Consider, if a man could generate $0.25-0.50/day STEADY...
And in Eurasia a big loaf of bread costs about $0.10...
And if 10,000,000 people had $10 in BitCoins...
All of the sudden you are looking at $100,000,000...
And then it only starts to grow.


That is the general idea.

"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."

- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
QuantPlus
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April 10, 2011, 02:34:54 AM
 #83

This discussion is now about how to "fix" Bitcoin.


Consider, if a man could generate $0.25-0.50/day STEADY...
And in Eurasia a big loaf of bread costs about $0.10...
And if 10,000,000 people had $10 in BitCoins...
All of the sudden you are looking at $100,000,000...
And then it only starts to grow.


That is the general idea.

The viral, exponential growth is Bottom Up... not Top Down...
Like YouTube, not Hollywood...
What happens with BitCoin in Russia >>> more important than USA...
Another tool for tipping fat bloggers is not revolutionary.

You guys know this...
But electricity is cheapest by far in the Americas...
I'm still trying to discover/understand features tailored for Third World.
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April 10, 2011, 04:37:25 AM
 #84

This discussion is now about how to "fix" Bitcoin.


Consider, if a man could generate $0.25-0.50/day STEADY...
And in Eurasia a big loaf of bread costs about $0.10...
And if 10,000,000 people had $10 in BitCoins...
All of the sudden you are looking at $100,000,000...
And then it only starts to grow.


That is the general idea.

The viral, exponential growth is Bottom Up... not Top Down...
Like YouTube, not Hollywood...
What happens with BitCoin in Russia >>> more important than USA...
Another tool for tipping fat bloggers is not revolutionary.

You guys know this...
But electricity is cheapest by far in the Americas...
I'm still trying to discover/understand features tailored for Third World.

Bitcoin is not tailored for anyone, but nor does it discriminate for anyone either.  That alone means that Bitcoin is a more favorable monetary system for third world nations than anything that the UN or the US has presented them with thus far.  Your claim about electricity is false, as there are forum members who have reported very low power costs in Russia, Iceland and elsewhere.

"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."

- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
cypherdoc
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April 10, 2011, 02:09:53 PM
 #85

electricity has very little to do with bitcoin in the long run, if not now.  from talking to a few early participants it has already become almost impossible to generate bitcoins with the average persons home computer from a probabilistic standpoint.  therefore, the average person will have to buy bitcoins in the future.  how does the person w/o a computer or smartphone do this?  especially if one is unfortunate enough to be homeless?  i could see an evolution to paper bitcoins.  this would be a 2 edged sword however.  while it would put money into the hands of the non tech community, it would also lead to a decrease in the bitcoin money supply.  this is a problem as things would become even less expensive as the bitcoin value soars.  bitcoin ppl would love it but everyone else would hate it.  whats interesting is, the more one thinks about starting a new currency, the more one becomes to sympathize (just a bit) with the existing money manipulators.
Alex Beckenham
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April 10, 2011, 02:17:16 PM
 #86

Bitcoin is not tailored for anyone, but nor does it discriminate for anyone either.  That alone means that Bitcoin is a more favorable monetary system for third world nations than anything that the UN or the US has presented them with thus far.

Don't you need computer/internet access to make use of Bitcoin? I'd say that rules out a lot of people, especially in third-world countries.

Gavin Andresen
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April 10, 2011, 04:23:02 PM
 #87

Don't you need computer/internet access to make use of Bitcoin? I'd say that rules out a lot of people, especially in third-world countries.

In 2009:
Quote
over 65 percent of the African population had access to mobile phone service, with. 93 percent covered in North Africa and 60 percent in sub-Saharan Africa
  Source
All mobile phones will be internet-enabled in 10 years, and I think it is pretty safe to assume that most people on the planet will have some access.  It won't surprise me if bitcoin first goes mainstream in an up-and-coming third-world country or region.


How often do you get the chance to work on a potentially world-changing project?
Alex Beckenham
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April 10, 2011, 04:26:17 PM
 #88

Thanks Gavin, that's both interesting and surprising.

I wonder what kind of handsets those 65% of Africans have at the moment?

I'm sure the smartphones will trickle through eventually as you suggest.

eMansipater
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April 10, 2011, 08:51:42 PM
 #89

Yup, the whole world will basically come online within the next two decades.

If you found my post helpful, feel free to send a small tip to 1QGukeKbBQbXHtV6LgkQa977LJ3YHXXW8B
Visit the BitCoin Q&A Site to ask questions or share knowledge.
0.009 BTC too confusing?  Use mBTC instead!  Details at www.em-bit.org or visit the project thread to help make Bitcoin prices more human-friendly.
em3rgentOrdr
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youtube.com/ericfontainejazz now accepts bitcoin


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April 10, 2011, 08:52:05 PM
 #90

The big mistake I see is the $40-50 "lottery" payout methodology...
Which is aimed at Bot Nets and Western geeks.

Answer: pooled mining.

"We will not find a solution to political problems in cryptography, but we can win a major battle in the arms race and gain a new territory of freedom for several years.

Governments are good at cutting off the heads of a centrally controlled networks, but pure P2P networks are holding their own."
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April 10, 2011, 09:50:09 PM
 #91

Pool mining. Something to add to every client?
MoonShadow
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April 11, 2011, 04:39:22 AM
 #92

Bitcoin is not tailored for anyone, but nor does it discriminate for anyone either.  That alone means that Bitcoin is a more favorable monetary system for third world nations than anything that the UN or the US has presented them with thus far.

Don't you need computer/internet access to make use of Bitcoin? I'd say that rules out a lot of people, especially in third-world countries.


Unless you are actively generating, then an end user only needs occasional access to the internet.  Or to be precise, occasional access to another client with greater access to other clients.  An end user doesn't need live access to the Internet to spend his already confirmed coins.  At present, only the receiver needs live access to the Bitcoin network in any given trade, so long as the two parties' devices have some digital method of communicating otherwise, (i.e. Dash7, Near-field or ad-hoc wifi) and only if he has need for independent confirmation that a valid transaction has just occurred.  IRL, the vast majority of cash in person transactions do not need this level of certainty to happen as it is today.  There is no reason that, in a Bitcoin future, an established shop in Africa couldn't accept a transaction produced by a walk-in customer's smartphone based only upon checking it against his local copy of the blockchain to make certain that said customer owned said coins the last time he updated his blockchain.  The double spend attack is technically difficult on many levels, so unless it were to start to become a common form of fraud in the distant trading posts, a blockchain a day out of date is unlikely to be a problem for the purchase of a coke and a candy bar.  In a future where only 3% of the population uses Bitcoin once or more a week (which would be a dramatic success) a continuous digital broadcast of the blockchain, via sat downlink or shortwave data undercarrier methods (i.e. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Radio_Mondiale) is downright likely in places where Internet access is rare or insufficient, and not out of the question even in North America.  Imagine if XM radio were to commit one channel to a continuous feed of the blockchain.

Even that level of Bitcoin infrastructure might not be necessary if Dash7 radios were to become as common as wifi radios on smartphones, because of the nature of Dash7, an aware Bitcoin client could (and therefore would) mesh with most of the other Dash7 devices within a max kilometer radius, trading blocks and transactions in an open and dynamic network.  A network dynamic enough that nodes move around a cityscape throughout the course of a day, constantly trading said packets whenever more recent data is discovered.  I don't know if you're a radio geek like myself, but to a radio geek, the opprotunistic mesh network that has an average node range of over half a klick, and the potential for wide and deep node penetration, is a surreal concept.  If only 2% of cell phone users in NYC had Dash7 phones, and kept them on all day, there would literally be no place within the city that was beyond the reach of a signal; excepting (maybe) the sewer system and a closed bank vault.  One would literally have to be standing in a faraday cage to not be able to see at least one other Dash7 node with an average radius of half a click, and there is great likelyhood that a well made Dash7 node would do far better than half a klick.  Network saturation is a different issue, of course; since Dash7 is limited to about 200kbps sustained transfer rate.

"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."

- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
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