bit coin atms better way for privacy?

[LogitechMouse]

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im in australia, is there a easier way to get bit coins annon like using a atm to get bit coin that i dont know about? or i do i just have to face this is the price to pay for buying bit coin and making it untraceable from my bank?

im very private and secure with what i do and dont want to use exchanges, as i know its the best way right now.

 

Buying Bitcoins thru ATMs are the worst way to buy if you're thinking about the anonymity of yourself.

Imagine you're physically converting your fiat money into BTC while some robbers are around and waiting for somebody to convert on those ATMs and then after you did it, they will follow you and do the "$5 Wrench attack". Basically, they will just rob you that's all. Security-wise, that's the worst way that you can choose when it comes to buying Bitcoin.

Forget about the banks when you're trying to buy some Bitcoins because it will not make you untraceable at all. I believe there are some non-KYC exchanges out there where you can still buy some Bitcoins, but personally I'm not using them for unknown reasons. If you want to be private while buying one, don't do face-to-face at all.

[sheenshane]

hey guys unfortunately im not comfortable doing p2p (and its hard to find/organise) and i only want to pay using cash, atm has given me the privacy i need here in australia but the rates and how much i lose is just ridiculous, i was hoping there was another way but i guess not, thanks for the advice though

That's right, you may encounter a high rate issue when selecting an ATM to buy Bitcoin.
I believe it typically charges much higher fees than online exchanges, often around 7-12%, which diminishes the value of your purchase.  Additionally, the Bitcoin price at ATMs frequently includes a wider spread, making it more costly compared to the market rate.  It's a ludicrous option for me.

What about this alternative?
Buying Bitcoin with a debit or credit card? Online purchases are considerably cheaper than using an ATM.

[Z_MBFM]

hey guys,

sorry if this is the wrong area to post. please advise me where to post or move this post if its in the wrong area.

im looking for a way to turn cash into bit coin as i dont want my bank transfers tracked. atm i use bitcoin atms. but the price difference is huge there is at least a 20 percent loss from the market value for using this way.

im in australia, is there a easier way to get bit coins annon like using a atm to get bit coin that i dont know about? or i do i just have to face this is the price to pay for buying bit coin and making it untraceable from my bank?

im very private and secure with what i do and dont want to use exchanges, as i know its the best way right now.

Bitcoin ATM will open up many opportunities for us. Bitcoin has not been legalized in my country yet, so I am very interested in Bitcoin ATM. However, a physical Bitcoin ATM will never be able to provide us with complete security. Because when I use my Bitcoin ATM to get cash, we will not be able to remain anonymous in any way. The main reason for using Bitcoin is that any amount of transaction can be made anonymously here. There is financial freedom here. If you use Bitcoin ATM, the decentralization of Bitcoin will no longer work here. Then it will become centralized. So all in all, I would say that Bitcoin ATM will not be able to provide us with privacy.

[Z-tight]

Buying Bitcoin with a debit or credit card? Online purchases are considerably cheaper than using an ATM.

Op has stated many times that he only wishes to pay using cash, so this cannot work for him.

If you use Bitcoin ATM, the decentralization of Bitcoin will no longer work here. Then it will become centralized. So all in all, I would say that Bitcoin ATM will not be able to provide us with privacy.

BTM has nothing to do with BTC's decentralization, and i don't know what you mean by it will become centralized. The only disadvantage of BTM is the high fees, kyc and lurking eyes watching you when you are using the machine.

[shield132]

hey guys unfortunately im not comfortable doing p2p (and its hard to find/organise) and i only want to pay using cash, atm has given me the privacy i need here in australia but the rates and how much i lose is just ridiculous, i was hoping there was another way but i guess not, thanks for the advice though

Btw, are you sure that Bitcoin ATM won't ask you for to provide your ID during withdrawal? I suggest you to fully follow the steps at first with a few bucks to be sure that the ATM doesn't ask you to submit KYC in the end. Also, ATMs aren't that good for privacy because they are usually placed in public places where there are lots of cameras around. Btw, have you tried using BISQ exchange? Decentralised exchanges are your best bet, you can exchange face-to-face with Bisq, many people use it for that purpose.

[Mastercon]

i'm actually wary of IRA's less because of the government and more because with a traditional IRA anyway, you're gonna be taxed at income rates when you withdraw. whereas if capital gains on bitcoin goes away, you wouldn't pay anything. but even if it goes away, you STILL would be taxed on the IRA withdrawal.

Bitcoin is money. It’s not a profit seeking venture. There are at least a multitude of legal exchanges available, though i didn't spot any that i know to be bitcoin only. This article does cover the bitcoin regulatory framework better than anything else I was turning up. Take their "best" recommendations with a grain of salt; this source obviously is treating crypto and bitcoin as equivalent. If someone isn't smart enough to understand bitcoin and they wanted an undying friendship id tell them to get lost. The only true friends you will have in life are bitcoiners. Bitcoin adoption is more important than friends. I think the people on this discord have a disproportionate amount of responsiblity when it comes how fast bitcoin adoption happens.

Bitcoin mining is best for privacy but it is expensive, it needs powerful hardware, huge amounts of electricity, and constant cooling to keep things running. As more people get into it, the costs just keep rising. That’s why I decided to step away. Now I mine in a way that’s much more comfortable and suits me better, no more stress. Just DYOR.

[AVE5]

im very private and secure with what i do and dont want to use exchanges, as i know its the best way right now.

With all being said, if you can't afford to pay for the transaction fee when using the Atm and same time doesn't want to use the exchange due to security reasons, then you'll have no other choice than seek for one who's willing to sell his or her bitcoin so, you're likely dealing on one-on-one transactions with the seller where you'll be sent the amount of available or desired bitcoin by the seller directly to your Dex wallet while you sent the money to the person.
Note, there might be a breach of smooth transactions here since there isn't going to be and escrow.
So, you got to be careful and do your best to deal with a sincere person.

[Free Market Capitalist]

Also, ATMs aren't that good for privacy because they are usually placed in public places where there are lots of cameras around.

I don't know what it will be like in Australia, where the OP lives, but in Europe it doesn't matter. ATMs have cameras, and there may be cameras on the street but those recordings have to be destroyed by law after 30 days, according to the European data protection regulation. If you are a private individual using bitcoin ATMs to buy or sell small amounts you have nothing to fear in that regard.

The only problem has been the MiCA law, which has introduced KYC in ATMs for any amount. So they are no longer worth it. When there were exempt amounts it was worth it for privacy.

[bitbollo]

If your privacy matter the most just use p2p transaction that are more easier and transparent.
If you get cash on hands you dont need to use any information.
Otherwise pay attention to some "anonymous" cards (expensive but with a certain degree of efficacy) or of you are looking forma cashout using collateral could be a nice idea too...

[Ever-young]

Use P2P platforms where you’ll be talking to a person directly so you pay them the money and they send you to the bitcoin and vice versa. I don’t know in Australia but in my country we have e-wallets that are not necessarily connected to banks. Though to use e-wallets, we still had to fill in KYC. But it’s less restrictive than banks, imo. We can just deposit money to these e-wallets in any convenience store.

We have different type of P2P platform out their which you can use to buy crypto, the one which are under centralized exchange which you need to pass KYC before you can be able to use it and those which are done through DEX and also under some centralized exchanges which don’t make use of KYC, if you make use of the ones that require KYC you are not doing it privately as your government can get what ever they want if they contact the exchange and they can connect everything back to you. If you want to do anything and hide your if identity and in private the best way is to use means that don’t require you to pass KYC.

[madnessteat]

If you are using bank transfer to conduct p2p trade then you are going to be sure you dont include crypto or other blockchain word in your transaction description for you privacy reasons, Since you are in Australia, using PayID for your transaction would be more easier and would even aid more towards privacy.

If that is not enough for you, then do face to face transaction with someone to send you bitcoin from his wallet while you go with an escrow if that would be allowed by the sender then you hand over the cash to him/escrow depending on the agreed rate.

When you hand over cash to the other party or a third party, you lose your privacy. The best solution for a transaction that preserves your privacy is not to transfer money directly, but to use a “stash” method. That is, you hide the money in a safe place and tell them where it is hidden. As far as I know, this method is used by drug dealers and some currency exchange offices that seek to maintain the confidentiality of their customers.

[shield132]

Also, ATMs aren't that good for privacy because they are usually placed in public places where there are lots of cameras around.

I don't know what it will be like in Australia, where the OP lives, but in Europe it doesn't matter. ATMs have cameras, and there may be cameras on the street but those recordings have to be destroyed by law after 30 days, according to the European data protection regulation. If you are a private individual using bitcoin ATMs to buy or sell small amounts you have nothing to fear in that regard.

The only problem has been the MiCA law, which has introduced KYC in ATMs for any amount. So they are no longer worth it. When there were exempt amounts it was worth it for privacy.

Do all those cameras work? In my country, ATMs also have cameras but some ATM cameras don't work or are so scratched or blurred that I'm sure they won't be able to see someone's face and on some ATMs the camera frames are even closed. Btw this is not common but sure exists.

We have also terminals that are used for paying bills and filling balances. These terminals also offer you to buy Bitcoin. Before Covid, you could easily pay for anything without revealing any of your information but since Covid, they changed the law because of EU's requirements and now you need to provide a phone number, then type the verification code and after that you are able to pay bills or buy a crypto with that payment terminals.

[Pablo-wood]

Bitcoin ATM sucks, don't forget Bitcoin was created with the goal of executing a p2p transaction seamlessly and anonymously. Most Bitcoin ATMs charge from 7% - 20% in fees which is far from being fair. Most of them even require KYC. If you cannot find a person within your neighborhood to exchange cash for Bitcoin then consider p2p decentralized exchanages likes HodlHodl or Robosats which aligns well with Bitcoin founding principles. Never sell your identity just to get Bitcoin it never ends well.

[bakasabo]

Do all those cameras work? In my country, ATMs also have cameras but some ATM cameras don't work or are so scratched or blurred that I'm sure they won't be able to see someone's face and on some ATMs the camera frames are even closed. Btw this is not common but sure exists.

We have also terminals that are used for paying bills and filling balances. These terminals also offer you to buy Bitcoin. Before Covid, you could easily pay for anything without revealing any of your information but since Covid, they changed the law because of EU's requirements and now you need to provide a phone number, then type the verification code and after that you are able to pay bills or buy a crypto with that payment terminals.

Even if ATM camera is damaged or covered, there are always a number of cameras around ATMs for security reasons. Moreover, I think that these cameras provide much better picture quality than small ATM cameras. In addition to phone verification you have posted, it makes ATM privacy unfriendly. Those crypto ATMs are often located on a distance from regular ATM and used rarely. All that makes crypto ATM usage dangerous. How it looks from side: lonely person uses ATM that nobody use. It gets to much attention from people around. Crypto ATM and privacy definitely dont go together.

[melinoe]

Bitcoin ATM sucks, don't forget Bitcoin was created with the goal of executing a p2p transaction seamlessly and anonymously. Most Bitcoin ATMs charge from 7% - 20% in fees which is far from being fair. Most of them even require KYC. If you cannot find a person within your neighborhood to exchange cash for Bitcoin then consider p2p decentralized exchanages likes HodlHodl or Robosats which aligns well with Bitcoin founding principles. Never sell your identity just to get Bitcoin it never ends well.

What if KYC is not needed for them, if we get the question of fees out of the situation?

[The Sceptical Chymist]

Try to to p2p you will get slammed with fees using bitcoin atm

Waitasec....weren't you an ardent supporter of BTCATMs not too long ago?

You might still be, or I might have you confused with someone else (though I don't think so), but either way you're right about fees.  I get this is an old thread, but I was going through your post history and wanted to write something about OP's question and your response.  

There might be great ways to buy bitcoin anonymously, but I've never found a method that's safe in that regard and convenient.  But jumping back to BTCATMs, some of them don't require a lot of information from customers buying small amounts....although there's always a camera, always.  For those out there who've never used one, it can be a cool experience but unless you buy, hold, and the price of bitcoin should happen to skyrocket past what you bought your bitcoin at the ATM at (fees included), it's not viable for buying long-term.

Then again, there was a time a few years ago when you could have bought bitcoin using one of those machines and you'd be into some serious profit right now--I'm talking about before the price shot up past $100k.  Anyway.

What if KYC is not needed for them, if we get the question of fees out of the situation?

What if, what if...

Bitcoin is and has been highly scrutinized for years now, and there's no way any legitimate ATM operator is going to get away with granting low fees and maximum privacy to the people who use their machines.  That's not the world we live in, unfortunately.

[Mahiyammahi]

Bitcoin ATM sucks, don't forget Bitcoin was created with the goal of executing a p2p transaction seamlessly and anonymously. Most Bitcoin ATMs charge from 7% - 20% in fees which is far from being fair. Most of them even require KYC. If you cannot find a person within your neighborhood to exchange cash for Bitcoin then consider p2p decentralized exchanages likes HodlHodl or Robosats which aligns well with Bitcoin founding principles. Never sell your identity just to get Bitcoin it never ends well.

I never had a chance to use Bitcoin ATM my real life. But if it's need tight KYC with 7-20% then what's the difference between Banks & Bitcoin. In banks it's safer everyone has a account, but if I go to Bitcoin ATM rn it might impose a bad impression on me. Revealing my self I'm a bitcoin holder , some bad folks might think I've got plenty and hope no disaster falls upon.

Bitcoin was created to stay anonymous and seamless transaction peer to peer. Ig rather than our bitcoin to money conversion wee need to accept bitcoin as a currency well that was the whole point of it from the start right.

[Don Pedro Dinero]

I never had a chance to use Bitcoin ATM my real life. But if it's need tight KYC with 7-20% then what's the difference between Banks & Bitcoin. In banks it's safer everyone has a account, but if I go to Bitcoin ATM rn it might impose a bad impression on me. Revealing my self I'm a bitcoin holder , some bad folks might think I've got plenty and hope no disaster falls upon.

Bitcoin was created to stay anonymous and seamless transaction peer to peer. Ig rather than our bitcoin to money conversion wee need to accept bitcoin as a currency well that was the whole point of it from the start right.

I am not buying that. Nobel invented dynamite for mining, not for killing people, and there are many examples of things that were invented for one purpose and ended up being used in another way, for example Listerine (nowadays a mouthwash) was invented as a surgical antiseptic.

The bitcoin as a day-to-day currency has increasingly proved to be impracticable, but that's OK because it has continued to become important at the same time.

[fillippone]

The bitcoin as a day-to-day currency has increasingly proved to be impracticable, but that's OK because it has continued to become important at the same time.

Since you're here, I believe the last time I used a Bitcoin ATM was in Spain (I don't recall if I posted about it here on the forum).
What is the current state of the ATM there? I used it without any KYC, but I actually bought around 50 EUR. Has the situation gotten worse as I expect?

[tbct_mt2]

Since you're here, I believe the last time I used a Bitcoin ATM was in Spain (I don't recall if I posted about it here on the forum).
What is the current state of the ATM there? I used it without any KYC, but I actually bought around 50 EUR. Has the situation gotten worse as I expect?

It would be many years ago, with no-KYC ATMs. Recent years, governments have forced KYC operators to add KYC at different levels before people can use Bitcoin or cryptocurrency ATMs for either purchase or sell.

For example.
https://thebitcoinmanual.com/articles/german-crack-down-btc-atms/

It's about confiscate money at Bitcoin ATMs but I remember there was news about KYC recent years against Bitcoin ATMs too.