Bitcoin Forum
April 05, 2026, 08:16:31 AM *
News: Latest Bitcoin Core release: 30.2 [Torrent]
 
   Home   Help Search Login Register More  
Pages: [1]
  Print  
Author Topic: Asymmetric Weighted Multi-Signature Wallets  (Read 148 times)
u8A8 (OP)
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 4
Merit: 27


View Profile
July 06, 2025, 12:52:44 AM
Merited by vapourminer (1)
 #1

There are a lot of benefits in creating Asymmetric weighted multi-sig wallets. These are wallets where not all keys are equal.

Currently, in a 3-of-5 wallet, all 5 keys are treated as equals. While this may be fine for a majority of uses, it might not be best for all.

Imagine a system where a corporation has a multi-sig wallet with keys held throughout the financial management structure, the CFO's key should not be weighted the same as a manager's key.

Or a traditional multi-sig wallet where you give contingency key(s) to family. You may not want their key to be worth as much as one of your own.

While these systems are *technically* possible right now by just giving higher-weighted entities more keys (e.g. the CFO gets two keys, everyone else gets one), there is no real system for this in Bitcoin.

This essentially moves multi-sig m-of-n keys to be m-of-n 'units', where a threshold of signature units must be met, and each key is worth a set number of units.
satscraper
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1428
Merit: 2627



View Profile
July 06, 2025, 07:51:33 AM
 #2


~
 there is no real system for this in Bitcoin.

This is not entirely accurate.

Liana wallet which has built-in support for Miniscriptallows users to create the wide range of advanced multisig schemes including the one you mentioned. With Liana, you can define flexible spending conditions and set up multiple backup keys, distributing them however you like.

▄▄███████████████████▄▄
▄███████████████████████▄
████████████████████████
█████████████████████████
████████████████████████
████████████▀██████▀████
████████████████████████
█████████▄▄▄▄███████████
██████████▄▄▄████████████
████████████████████████
████████████████▀▀███████
▀███████████████████████▀
▀▀███████████████████▀▀
 
 EARNBET 
██
██
██
██
██
██
██
██
██
██
██
██
██
███████▄▄███████████
████▄██████████████████
██▀▀███████████████▀▀███
▄████████████████████████
▄▄████████▀▀▀▀▀████████▄▄██
███████████████████████████
█████████▌██▀████████████
███████████████████████████
▀▀███████▄▄▄▄▄█████████▀▀██
▀█████████████████████▀██
██▄▄███████████████▄▄███
████▀██████████████████
███████▀▀███████████
██
██
██
██
██
██
██
██
██
██
██
██
██


▄▄▄
▄▄▄███████▐███▌███████▄▄▄
█████████████████████████
▀████▄▄▄███████▄▄▄████▀
█████████████████████
▐███████████████████▌
███████████████████
███████████████████
▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀

 King of The Castle 
 $200,000 in prizes
██
██
██
██
██
██
██
██
██
██
██
██
██

 62.5% 

 
RAKEBACK
BONUS
NotATether
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2296
Merit: 9606


┻┻ ︵㇏(°□°㇏)


View Profile WWW
July 06, 2025, 08:07:53 AM
Merited by vapourminer (1), apogio (1)
 #3

But how are you going to implement this with conventional threshold signature algorithsm?

I don't know of any multisig algorithms that work in fractions, they all work in terms of singular units.

I think the best way to go about this is to "emulate" fractions using a numerator (the number of keys YOU are assigned) and a denominator (total number of keys issued by the system).

It can be done right now, with no code changes required.

 
 b1exch.to 
  ETH      DAI   
  BTC      LTC   
  USDT     XMR    
.███████████▄▀▄▀
█████████▄█▄▀
███████████
███████▄█▀
█▀█
▄▄▀░░██▄▄
▄▀██▄▀█████▄
██▄▀░▄██████
███████░█████
█░████░█████████
█░█░█░████░█████
█░█░█░██░█████
▀▀▀▄█▄████▀▀▀
ABCbits
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 3570
Merit: 9901



View Profile
July 06, 2025, 09:04:22 AM
 #4

But how are you going to implement this with conventional threshold signature algorithsm?
--snip--

It's ugly approach, but you could create Taproot address where it's tapscript contain all possible spending condition based on weight/rule chosen by the user. I specifically mentioned Taproot, since Taproot doesn't reveal whole path/spending condition which is needed to maintain some privacy and reduce TX size.

███████████████████████████
███████▄████████████▄██████
████████▄████████▄████████
███▀█████▀▄███▄▀█████▀███
█████▀█▀▄██▀▀▀██▄▀█▀█████
███████▄███████████▄███████
███████████████████████████
███████▀███████████▀███████
████▄██▄▀██▄▄▄██▀▄██▄████
████▄████▄▀███▀▄████▄████
██▄███▀▀█▀██████▀█▀███▄███
██▀█▀████████████████▀█▀███
███████████████████████████
.
.Duelbits PREDICT..
█████████████████████████
█████████████████████████
███████████▀▀░░░░▀▀██████
██████████░░▄████▄░░████
█████████░░████████░░████
█████████░░████████░░████
█████████▄▀██████▀▄████
████████▀▀░░░▀▀▀▀░░▄█████
██████▀░░░░██▄▄▄▄████████
████▀░░░░▄███████████████
█████▄▄█████████████████
█████████████████████████
█████████████████████████
.
.WHERE EVERYTHING IS A MARKET..
█████
██
██







██
██
██████
Will Bitcoin hit $200,000
before January 1st 2027?

    No @1.15         Yes @6.00    
█████
██
██







██
██
██████

  CHECK MORE > 
1440000bytes
Jr. Member
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 35
Merit: 68


View Profile WWW
July 06, 2025, 09:20:57 AM
Merited by vapourminer (2)
 #5


Currently, in a 3-of-5 wallet, all 5 keys are treated as equals. While this may be fine for a majority of uses, it might not be best for all.


Lets assume there are 5 users (alice, bob, carol, david and eva). You can create a 3-of-5 multisig using miniscript in which alice and bob should be a part of 3 users that sign the spending transaction. The third signer could be anyone among the remaining.

It was possible to test miniscript and visually see different policies using bdk playground but it doesn't exist anymore.

Coinjoin implementation using nostr: https://joinstr.xyz
Ambatman
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 966
Merit: 1269


Don't tell anyone


View Profile WWW
July 06, 2025, 01:32:59 PM
 #6

I would come from an angle that isn't explicitly on it's complexity or technicality.
Multisig is usually done for security and sharing responsibility
Using weight same as concentrating power in fewer hands
Which can potentially increase the risk of targeted attacks on high value key holders.
Say compromising the CFO key could  weaken the wallet's security compared to a standard multisig setup.

Take using a 2 of 3 multisig and one with the highest weight becomes inactive.
It means the funds are lost forever.

███████████████████████████
███████▄████████████▄██████
████████▄████████▄████████
███▀█████▀▄███▄▀█████▀███
█████▀█▀▄██▀▀▀██▄▀█▀█████
███████▄███████████▄███████
███████████████████████████
███████▀███████████▀███████
████▄██▄▀██▄▄▄██▀▄██▄████
████▄████▄▀███▀▄████▄████
██▄███▀▀█▀██████▀█▀███▄███
██▀█▀████████████████▀█▀███
███████████████████████████
.
.Duelbits PREDICT..
█████████████████████████
█████████████████████████
███████████▀▀░░░░▀▀██████
██████████░░▄████▄░░████
█████████░░████████░░████
█████████░░████████░░████
█████████▄▀██████▀▄████
████████▀▀░░░▀▀▀▀░░▄█████
██████▀░░░░██▄▄▄▄████████
████▀░░░░▄███████████████
█████▄▄█████████████████
█████████████████████████
█████████████████████████
.
.WHERE EVERYTHING IS A MARKET..
█████
██
██







██
██
██████
Will Bitcoin hit $200,000
before January 1st 2027?

    No @1.15         Yes @6.00    
█████
██
██







██
██
██████

  CHECK MORE > 
NotATether
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2296
Merit: 9606


┻┻ ︵㇏(°□°㇏)


View Profile WWW
July 06, 2025, 02:29:19 PM
Merited by vapourminer (1)
 #7

Lets assume there are 5 users (alice, bob, carol, david and eva). You can create a 3-of-5 multisig using miniscript in which alice and bob should be a part of 3 users that sign the spending transaction. The third signer could be anyone among the remaining.

It was possible to test miniscript and visually see different policies using bdk playground but it doesn't exist anymore.

Damn, I don't really know miniscript that much but I think I should revive this. Maybe I'll put it on my old site (notatether.com)

 
 b1exch.to 
  ETH      DAI   
  BTC      LTC   
  USDT     XMR    
.███████████▄▀▄▀
█████████▄█▄▀
███████████
███████▄█▀
█▀█
▄▄▀░░██▄▄
▄▀██▄▀█████▄
██▄▀░▄██████
███████░█████
█░████░█████████
█░█░█░████░█████
█░█░█░██░█████
▀▀▀▄█▄████▀▀▀
Obim34
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 938
Merit: 670



View Profile WWW
July 06, 2025, 11:18:01 PM
Merited by fillippone (1)
 #8

Take using a 2 of 3 multisig and one with the highest weight becomes inactive.
It means the funds are lost forever.
In this case you can't use 2 of 3. If the wallets used has customizable m of n then it can be adjusted until balance. According to how OP explained using a 3 of 5 is best, the higher weights gets double the keys.

Which can potentially increase the risk of targeted attacks on high value key holders.
If the multisig is set up by the CFO, to keep informations discrete he doesn't need to mention the part where he holds the bigger weight.


███████▄▄███▄███▄
███▄▄████████▌██
▄█████████████▐██▌
██▄███████████▌█▌
███████▀██████▐▌█
██████████████▌▌▐
████████▄███████▐▐
█████████████████
███████████████▄██▄
██████████████▀▀▀
█████▀███▀▀▀

▄▄▄██████▄▄▄███████▄▄▄
███████████████████████████
███▌█████▀███▌█████▀▀███████████▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄
███▌█████▄███▌█████▄███▐███████████████████▄
▐████████████▀███████▄██████████▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀████▀
▐████████████▄██▄███████████▌█████████▄████▀
▐█████████▀█████████▌█████████████▄▄████▀
██████████▄███████████▐███▌██▄██████▀
██████████████▀███▐███▌██████████████████████
████▀██████▀▀█████████▌███▀▀▀▀███▀▀▀▀▀▀▀████▌
 
      P R E M I E R   B I T C O I N   C A S I N O   &   S P O R T S B O O K      

█▀▀









▀▀▀

▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀

  98%  
RTP

 
▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀

▀▀█









▀▀▀

█▀▀









▀▀▀

▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀

 HIGH 
ODDS

 
▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀

▀▀█









▀▀▀
 
..PLAY NOW..
pooya87
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 4102
Merit: 12279



View Profile
July 07, 2025, 04:39:30 AM
 #9

Currently, in a 3-of-5 wallet, all 5 keys are treated as equals. While this may be fine for a majority of uses, it might not be best for all.

Imagine a system where a corporation has a multi-sig wallet with keys held throughout the financial management structure, the CFO's key should not be weighted the same as a manager's key.

While these systems are *technically* possible right now by just giving higher-weighted entities more keys (e.g. the CFO gets two keys, everyone else gets one), there is no real system for this in Bitcoin.
You don't need to give them more keys, you just have to modify the smart contract aka the script that is used to lock those coins up. For example in a 3 of 5 setup you want the CFO's key to have a "higher weight" then do something like this:
Code:
<CFO pubkey> OP_CHECKSIGVERIFY
OP_2 <pubkey 2> <pubkey 3> <pubkey 4> <pubkey 5> OP_4 OP_CHECKMULTISIG
This is a 3 of 5 multisig where the CFO pubkey and signature is mandatory and has a higher weight.

███████████████████████████
███████▄████████████▄██████
████████▄████████▄████████
███▀█████▀▄███▄▀█████▀███
█████▀█▀▄██▀▀▀██▄▀█▀█████
███████▄███████████▄███████
███████████████████████████
███████▀███████████▀███████
████▄██▄▀██▄▄▄██▀▄██▄████
████▄████▄▀███▀▄████▄████
██▄███▀▀█▀██████▀█▀███▄███
██▀█▀████████████████▀█▀███
███████████████████████████
.
.Duelbits PREDICT..
█████████████████████████
█████████████████████████
███████████▀▀░░░░▀▀██████
██████████░░▄████▄░░████
█████████░░████████░░████
█████████░░████████░░████
█████████▄▀██████▀▄████
████████▀▀░░░▀▀▀▀░░▄█████
██████▀░░░░██▄▄▄▄████████
████▀░░░░▄███████████████
█████▄▄█████████████████
█████████████████████████
█████████████████████████
.
.WHERE EVERYTHING IS A MARKET..
█████
██
██







██
██
██████
Will Bitcoin hit $200,000
before January 1st 2027?

    No @1.15         Yes @6.00    
█████
██
██







██
██
██████

  CHECK MORE > 
Pages: [1]
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!