France Wants People to Work More for Less

[slapper]

I would like to discuss something I have read about France, but it seems that it can happen almost everywhere. The government there wants to cut two public holidays so people work more days. They claim it is to assist in resolving their massive debt issue, but when you examine what is actually occurring, it does not sit well

First, most of the French is opposed to it (eventually). Over 70% answered no to the loss of their holidays. The amount of money that the government would save (approximately 4 billion euros) is relatively little in comparison to the total debt of the country, and it is nearly equal to the amount they are spending additionally on the military. Therefore, individuals are being requested to work longer, yet they will not actually earn more

Most of my friends have had jobs where a day off is worth more than a small bonus. It is not even about money. What matters most to them (and me) are the simple things: family dinners, lazy afternoons, and time to read new ideas or work on new projects or just play games with the community (Yeah, I might talk about our bitcointalk Poker events haha). The governments keep asking normal people to sacrifice, while they avoid the real problems, like how work and taxes are set up

What would you do when your country attempted this? Would you work more days for the same money? Do you believe it does any good?

Or is it just another method of old systems to transfer the pain to ordinary people, and to pretend that things will be better soon?

[Solosanz]

In my country they don't have to propose something in order to be implemented, they can do whatever they want.

As we know any jobs will give one day free per week for their employees or 4 days per month, here many boss only give 1-2 days free per month, some of them don't even give any free day at all, so the employees are working like a robot.

The worker's right organization is so fucked up, hence the boss/companies didn't get any punishment.

[George Edward]

Honestly speaking, if such a thing would happen in my country, I will likely be frustrated like the stress would be too much to handle, especially for parents. They might not even have time for their kids or any loved ones.

 if this kind of event happens in my country, it will definitely cause protests. And the funny part is that there would be no benefits from any of it that is not fair  .

Well, whether it is good? I believe that there are plenty of ways to address economic issues than taking away people's free time. And an event like this will definitely cause disagreement between both citizens and the government.

[Free Market Capitalist]

France has an elephantine state that has been able to pay that way by plundering France Afrique, the thing is that it is a house of cards that has begun to fall. I don't know what you want, OP, to be paid more for working less? The countries that eat the world are the ones that increase their productivity and France is precisely the example of the opposite. Nothing unusual in Europe but in France elevated to the maximum expression. When the Euro was launched, the GDP of the USA and the EU was almost at par, while today the GDP of the USA is 50% higher. Ask yourself why.

Dedicating yourself to subsidizing people for not working, for building mosques and things like that you can do when you have money. When the money runs out you can still get into debt, but when the money runs out and you are already up to your eyebrows in debt, you get a reality check, which is what is happening here.

[passwordnow]

What would you do when your country attempted this? Would you work more days for the same money? Do you believe it does any good?

Or is it just another method of old systems to transfer the pain to ordinary people, and to pretend that things will be better soon?

It is slavery. People are dealing already with so much problem and they're removing the time that they can enjoy with their families or just some time to rest. Nowadays, people value work-life balance but those that have no choice and they can't leave their jobs for this the same purpose, they'll just agree to any new policy that will be applied to them because if they don't agree, they'll be removed. That's extortion but people do have a choice? if there is, you better choose your sanity and peace than to work more but with the same to lesser pay.

[_act_]

What would you do when your country attempted this? Would you work more days for the same money? Do you believe it does any good?

I have nothing to do and it will not be of any pain for me because I am not a government worker, I have my own business and I have to do it in order to make money. The more I work the more the money I will make. I will rather prefer to stay not saying anything about it.

Or is it just another method of old systems to transfer the pain to ordinary people, and to pretend that things will be better soon?

Yes, they just want to transfer the pain to people. The French government should do something about it and find alternatives instead.

[stadus]

There’s a law in our country that says benefits already given to workers can’t be taken back, but they can still add more. what’s happening now is the government wants to remove some holidays so people will work more.

I don’t think that really helps workers, especially if they’re already okay with what they’re earning. Those holidays are important too as it’s when they get to spend time with their families. So, a lot of people will definitely complain about it. But if it’s the government’s policy to boost the economy, then it’s tough to go against it. At the end of the day, if we’re employees, we just follow what the law says.

[slapper]

In my country they don't have to propose something in order to be implemented, they can do whatever they want.

As we know any jobs will give one day free per week for their employees or 4 days per month, here many boss only give 1-2 days free per month, some of them don't even give any free day at all, so the employees are working like a robot.

The worker's right organization is so fucked up, hence the boss/companies didn't get any punishment.

I read about these “debates” in Europe and I just think, wow, at least people there can argue and maybe win a little ground. Where you are, it is even worse. Just orders from the top, and everyone's supposed to swallow it. That is tough. do you think people have stopped fighting because nothing changes, or was there never really any culture of pushing back to start with?

I honestly do not know what is worse: a government that pretends to listen, or one that does not even bother. Either way, regular people end up losing their time and energy, right?

In my country they don't have to propose something in order to be implemented, they can do whatever they want.

As we know any jobs will give one day free per week for their employees or 4 days per month, here many boss only give 1-2 days free per month, some of them don't even give any free day at all, so the employees are working like a robot.

The worker's right organization is so fucked up, hence the boss/companies didn't get any punishment.

Many would feel that same stress if the government tried this in our own countries. Losing time with family (especially for parents) would hit hard. We all know that people making these decisions never had to choose between their job and being there for their kids. And yes, if there is no real benefit and just more pain for everyone, it only makes people angrier. Governments seem to forget that most folks are not just numbers or data point. We are real people with lives and relationships and emotion. When they take away the little free time we have, it is like they are taking away the last bit of breathing room we get in a busy world

There are always smarter ways to fix economic problems than just demanding people work more and live less. Maybe if leaders started by fixing waste, or by really listening to what people need, things would not blow up into street protests and mistrust

France has an elephantine state that has been able to pay that way by plundering France Afrique, the thing is that it is a house of cards that has begun to fall. I don't know what you want, OP, to be paid more for working less? The countries that eat the world are the ones that increase their productivity and France is precisely the example of the opposite. Nothing unusual in Europe but in France elevated to the maximum expression. When the Euro was launched, the GDP of the USA and the EU was almost at par, while today the GDP of the USA is 50% higher. Ask yourself why.

Dedicating yourself to subsidizing people for not working, for building mosques and things like that you can do when you have money. When the money runs out you can still get into debt, but when the money runs out and you are already up to your eyebrows in debt, you get a reality check, which is what is happening here.

France (and indeed, most of Europe) has lived large off a heavy state, easy money, and yes, some questionable foreign policies in Africa and elsewhere. But I believe what is actually collapsing is not just the French state, it is the whole linear idea that "work more = always win", no matter the cost to normie.

I do not think anyone here seriously believes you can just chill forever and get paid for nothing. But the total opposite, grinding everyone down with longer hours, less rest, and no vision, that does not make a country stronger. Look at the facts: French workers are already more productive per hour than many countries that brag about "hard work", and still the system hass broken. Why? Because the real issue is never about laziness, it is decades of political avoidance, wasted spending, and leaders buying time by taxing the hell out of normal people while ignoring the real cracks

Let's not pretend the US or China got ahead just by making everyone work more hours. There are a lot to do with innovation, flexibility, actually rewarding effort, not just squeezing people dry. When you turn every problem into "just work harder", you end up with burned out, angry citizens who start looking for something, anything, that can bring different

[Webetcoins]

It's a lot simpler to fix these type of nations issues with just two things, and yet they fail to see it. A government needs to spend a lot less on the military, and they need to cut back on government spending instead of trying to find more ways to get taxes from people.

Almost all governments all around the world are bloated, and if they were a company, they would have all been bankrupt by now. I love warren buffets idea, if government has deficit that year, all sitting members of the congress gets fired and not eligible for re-election. Do that, and see what kind of math they come up with, I guarantee you, they will find a way to cut back on spending. Or worse, they will steal even more to squeeze that into one single term, so it's risky.

[DeathAngel]

This doesn’t surprise me, all governments hate us. If they could get away with making us work for free, seven days a week they would. You have to make it on your own in the world because individually we mean nothing to our power hungry governments.

[Callido]

What would you do when your country attempted this? Would you work more days for the same money? Do you believe it does any good?

Or is it just another method of old systems to transfer the pain to ordinary people, and to pretend that things will be better soon?

Is the government giving them chance to make choices, irrespective of diverse opinions, will the government still go ahead to apply the order, that way there is no need of asking people what they think.

No i won't, working extra days means increasing salary, in a normal job any day you skip is cut out from your pay, i suggest an option whereby people have to decide whether to come work during holiday and get extra pay or skip for the holiday and take the same salary no extra.

[Reatim]

What would you do when your country attempted this? Would you work more days for the same money? Do you believe it does any good?

Or is it just another method of old systems to transfer the pain to ordinary people, and to pretend that things will be better soon?

Is the government giving them chance to make choices, irrespective of diverse opinions, will the government still go ahead to apply the order, that way there is no need of asking people what they think.

yeah i mean after all it’s your company who decides whether you should come in and earn how much the government just suggests a specific way of doing it but the final decision lies on your workplace. not by us here at the forum

No i won't, working extra days means increasing salary, in a normal job any day you skip is cut out from your pay, i suggest an option whereby people have to decide whether to come work during holiday and get extra pay or skip for the holiday and take the same salary no extra.

it might be cruel but is there any other choice really?

[ARTOIS]

Humans are not machines ,humans need time off it's not just a benefit It's what separates living from surviving what we stand to lose when policies are created using spreadsheets rather than human understanding is highlighted by your point about leisurely afternoons, family time, and even neighbourhood gatherings like poker nights (yes, that counts too!)

[Haunebu]

French are actually some of the luckiest people in the world thanks to a 5 day, 35 hours work week to be honest since majority of the countries make their people work for around 10 hours or more, 5 days a week.

Some countries even make their people work like animals for 7 days a week without any break in between. This is why I get why the French are opposing this bullshit. Who in their right mind wouldn't?

[happybitcoinph]

Why are others here focusing on "people to work more for less" as stated in the thread subject? It's just part of the proposed plan for spending cuts, as they are aiming to improve the country's budget deficit in the following years.

Besides, it's only 2 public holidays there that will be affected, and the reasons for selecting those are reasonable for me. Like for example, Easter Monday in France is a public holiday. In my country, there's no Easter Monday holiday. The long weekend is surely enough from Holy Thursday to Easter Sunday. No need to extend it on Monday and make it a working day instead.

Please read the article and don't focus on the thread title. It won't be a harm at all if only 2 public holidays are cut the entire year. The selection criteria is even great as only holidays that extend after the weekend are considered.

[Fortify]

That's one way to frame it, but it misses out some key facts around the setup in France. Firstly they have 11 national holidays which is already fairly high but employers are still free to provide their employees extra paid holidays to make up for the difference, if they can accept a little bit less profit. It's also quite common in France to do 35 hour weeks, which is below the average for most other countries and will impact productivity too. They're also lagging behind some other European nations in raising their retirement age, as it relates to state benefits. Altogether it's an effort to allow companies to have people working more days in the year which can help fund these other perks that exist. If the country starts to go bankrupt then many more citizens will ultimately suffer, so sometimes you have to put a little bit extra in to keep the good times flowing.

[uneng]

What would you do when your country attempted this? Would you work more days for the same money? Do you believe it does any good?

Or is it just another method of old systems to transfer the pain to ordinary people, and to pretend that things will be better soon?

I don't think it would work in my country. The government isn't even crazy to do this, because they know people would revolt on the streets and cause urban chaos. However, it doesn't mean the government here doesn't try to raise recipe over ordinary citizens. It just mean they do this through more sutile means, such as creating new taxes or raising the existing ones. Then people pay without questioning, because they don't understand it very well, besides the taxes being hidden behind products and services' costs.

The system will always act like this, instead of cutting their own benefits and wages in order to save money to pay the national debt.

[coupable]

What would you do when your country attempted this? Would you work more days for the same money? Do you believe it does any good?

Or is it just another method of old systems to transfer the pain to ordinary people, and to pretend that things will be better soon?

In my country, only some national holidays can be cut because of ideological purposes, mainly when rulers change and had different perspectives. For example we had one week vacancy during November month which the month in which the president took the power. Once the president changed, the new one canceled the full holiday and change it to just one day dated the day he took the power and called it "Revolution Day". This is ironic, isn't it?

[SUPERSAIAN]

There's probably no one who wouldn't object to the government's demand that we work more. People aren't just here to work; this is the perception all governments create, and they normalize it in people, making it seem like we just have to work, but it's not like that. It's not a necessity, and we're not machines, we have to work long hours.

In my country, working hours are already very high and wages are very low, but that doesn't matter; no matter which country, the balance between work and wages needs to be humane.

[r_victory]

Regarding holidays here in Brazil, there's a better chance of creating new ones than eliminating them. Those who work on holidays earn a little more. In my opinion, that's what shifts are for: while one works, the other rests, and the economy keeps going. Some people like to work paid overtime, work on Sundays and holidays, I did this a lot for ten years, but I got paid, and those who prefer to rest...

Pay less for more work, that's exploitation!