Why I left BTC

[Raoul Duke]

The criminal angle continues to be stupid. Fiat is where most criminal activity takes place.

No way!?!?! 


I'm joking. Just in case it ain't obvious. Any instrument with which you can transact value will be used for criminal purposes.

[rebuilder]

Bitcoin is good for trading the volatility. The buy and hodl days are over. You are doing it all wrong.

This is why I am on the edge of leaving crypto like the op personally. Some of us have day jobs and we don't have the time or money to sit around all day buying at the dips playing day trader. I want an investment I can feel safe buying, turning off the computer and coming back 6 months later. I am still unsure if Bitcoin is this solvent and alts definitely aren't that at this moment either.

Where did you ever get the idea Bitcoin was anything like a safe investment? It's a new, barely-tested payment system and public ledger all in one. It's radical in many ways and no-one knows if it's going to work in the long term, or what that would even mean. Any potential as an investment is purely incidental and profits entirely unguaranteed.

It's like you saw a unicorn and thought it would make a pretty good racehorse if you bought it. Maybe it would, maybe it wouldn't, but man! It's a unicorn!

[solid12345]

Bitcoin is good for trading the volatility. The buy and hodl days are over. You are doing it all wrong.

This is why I am on the edge of leaving crypto like the op personally. Some of us have day jobs and we don't have the time or money to sit around all day buying at the dips playing day trader. I want an investment I can feel safe buying, turning off the computer and coming back 6 months later. I am still unsure if Bitcoin is this solvent and alts definitely aren't that at this moment either.

Nice signature! For someone "with a day job"  and looking for "investments were I feel safe buying" you sure have a lot of shitcoins...

They weren't shitcoins 3 months ago when I made my signature, but now everything is down in the dumps. Why the personal attack? If it's not the market being in the red severely it is the attitude among people around here that turns me off from crypto in general, it is very elitist.

[Ibian]

Bitcoin is good for trading the volatility. The buy and hodl days are over. You are doing it all wrong.

This is why I am on the edge of leaving crypto like the op personally. Some of us have day jobs and we don't have the time or money to sit around all day buying at the dips playing day trader. I want an investment I can feel safe buying, turning off the computer and coming back 6 months later. I am still unsure if Bitcoin is this solvent and alts definitely aren't that at this moment either.

Nice signature! For someone "with a day job"  and looking for "investments were I feel safe buying" you sure have a lot of shitcoins...

They weren't shitcoins 3 months ago when I made my signature, but now everything is down in the dumps. Why the personal attack? If it's not the market being in the red severely it is the attitude among people around here that turns me off from crypto in general, it is very elitist.

That's because those who actually understand what bitcoin is, how it works, the technological as well as the financial side, the implications for society on the longer term and maybe even an understanding of the exponential function and network effects, are elite. Most people simply do not have the mental capacity to understand all of that at once. So when someone like the op comes along, who only takes a months long look at things and fails to take into account even the past years price history, there is a reaction. It's a toddler telling a university student why he is a fool, and being smug about it.

And they were always shitcoins. They offered nothing useful and therefore failed.

[HeliKopterBen]

Oh, I was here to make money (and to learn more about Bitcoin), I don't think I have ever denied that? I did felt uncomfortable knowing that Bitcoin enabled criminals, but I don't believe it affected my decision to sell.
I was just pointing out that your intentions to have bitcoin might not be so pure as you want us (or yourself) to believe.

You must not have learned anything about bitcoin.

[jtsnau]

I did felt uncomfortable knowing that Bitcoin enabled criminals

If that's the case, then I hope you didn't cash them out to fiat, because that's used for more than 99% of criminal activities.

That's because those who actually understand what bitcoin is, how it works, the technological as well as the financial side, the implications for society on the longer term and maybe even an understanding of the exponential function and network effects, are elite. Most people simply do not have the mental capacity to understand all of that at once. So when someone like the op comes along, who only takes a months long look at things and fails to take into account even the past years price history, there is a reaction.

+1

[Jonivdb]

Bitcoin is good for trading the volatility. The buy and hodl days are over. You are doing it all wrong.

This is why I am on the edge of leaving crypto like the op personally. Some of us have day jobs and we don't have the time or money to sit around all day buying at the dips playing day trader. I want an investment I can feel safe buying, turning off the computer and coming back 6 months later. I am still unsure if Bitcoin is this solvent and alts definitely aren't that at this moment either.

Nice signature! For someone "with a day job"  and looking for "investments were I feel safe buying" you sure have a lot of shitcoins...

They weren't shitcoins 3 months ago when I made my signature, but now everything is down in the dumps. Why the personal attack? If it's not the market being in the red severely it is the attitude among people around here that turns me off from crypto in general, it is very elitist.

That's because those who actually understand what bitcoin is, how it works, the technological as well as the financial side, the implications for society on the longer term and maybe even an understanding of the exponential function and network effects, are elite. Most people simply do not have the mental capacity to understand all of that at once. So when someone like the op comes along, who only takes a months long look at things and fails to take into account even the past years price history, there is a reaction. It's a toddler telling a university student why he is a fool, and being smug about it.

And they were always shitcoins. They offered nothing useful and therefore failed.

The classical response if you sell it must be because you don't understand bitcoin. Or maybe I understand better how bitcoin works then you think. After all, I already completed University. I don't think because it crashed and recovered before it will do that again automatically. It's dangerous to assume so. Maybe it will but as I said, all the facts currently point in the other direction.

I will stop posting here now because I think I made my point, I heard no valid arguments against it, and some of the people who respond seem to have lost all sense with reality. I just hope people realize in time that the rocket to the moon has run out of fuel and is starting to drop.

[solid12345]

That's because those who actually understand what bitcoin is, how it works, the technological as well as the financial side, the implications for society on the longer term and maybe even an understanding of the exponential function and network effects, are elite. Most people simply do not have the mental capacity to understand all of that at once. So when someone like the op comes along, who only takes a months long look at things and fails to take into account even the past years price history, there is a reaction. It's a toddler telling a university student why he is a fool.

And they were always shitcoins. They offered nothing useful and therefore failed.

The issue though is I have no confidence in the people who claim to understand Bitcoin either. Shrem and Karpeles have turned out to be crooks, the BTC Foundation has been doing nothing but squabbling like children for the last few months now, I also never saw a case of more impotence when I saw all the reps trying to defend Bitcoin at the NY regulation conference a few weeks back. They casually sat there and allowed lies to be uttered in front of everyone by the establishment and did little to counter them, I know there is decorum and all but really come on.

To top it off you have exchanges like btc-e whose members constantly cry about "shitcoins" like Doge while propping up dead and equally useless coins like Feathercoin or Terracoin, the whole thing is like payola with the old established coins being kept alive because of politics and tyrannical mods like Koolio banning you for any mention of competition while he simultaneously is developing and selling ASICs to mine for all these "shit" scrypt coins. I find the incestous business relationships around here questionable, like how Litecoin is propped up as the "silver" to Bitcoin's gold while Charlie Lee's brother runs one of the biggest exchanges in the world. What better way to make a fortune than develop an alternative to Bitcoin, hype it up for a year, and then have your brother sell your own creation on his exchange? And people say a 1% premine by a dev is crooked.

It only gets worse now with this whole Operation Scamcoin thing, instead of fixing problems in your own house we got people running around here trying 51% attacks and threatening to DDOS projects they don't like, wanting to extort devs for money for the "permission" to make a coin (and where do you think this money is going, hmmmm)..

It is also kind of insulting to me that BTCtalk has been bantering around for months now about how Bitcoin is going to $100k a coin, maybe even a million dollars. This exuberant hype is what has been driving the newbies in, then the minute the Chinese sneeze everyone starts selling out leaving the newbies with the bags, yeah if you collected thousands of Bitcoins for pennies, a 50% drop in price might not be so bad when you are wealthy, but for working class schmucks who were promised a chance to escape the clutches of a debt-ridden society and rampant unemployment and who put up a good chunk of their salary to join the movement, it feels like a betrayal and only lends ammunition to the accusation BTC is a ponzi scheme. Where are all you hardcore libertarian types around to stand up to the Chicoms and tell them to screw off? You are dumping your coins and running off with fiat like scared little puppies. I thought Bitcoin users weren't supposed to care what oppressive governments think?

Finally the top 1% owning 80% of the Bitcoins doesn't speak well for decentralization, and how many of these coins are owned by immature teenagers who get their news from reddit?

Sorry but my experience so far in the last few months has been finding the whole thing to be amateur hour and a circus show.

And Satoshi needs to show himself. This "mysterious creator" bullshit is getting old, everyone attacked the creator of AUR for being equally anonymous but somehow think Satoshi gets to be immune from such criticism. I am still not even sure Bitcoin is not an NSA project. The movement needs a leader and a confidence boost and him revealing himself could do that.

[jtsnau]

maybe I understand better how bitcoin works then you think. After all, I already completed University.

So your argument is basically "Trust me - I'm a college graduate" ?

That might have worked in 1965, but these days a college graduate is a dime a dozen and carries no weight as an appeal to authority.

[dropt]

In a perfect world I wouldn't really care, you can hide your money from the state if you want to. But we don't live in a perfect world. And we need to pay taxes for the services we get, even if we don't want to.
If everyone followed the law there would be no issues there. But there problem is that not everyone does follow the law, and any kind of criminal activity is very thankful for providing means for them to hide their dirty money, made from drug traffic, slavery, extortion, theft,smuggling,..these are the kind of activities you enable.

So don't kid yourself thinking you are here for the benefit of others, and that Bitcoin will make the world a better place to live in. You are here for selfish reasons, as you yourself have stated.

    This fuckin' guy...

[Ibian]

That's because those who actually understand what bitcoin is, how it works, the technological as well as the financial side, the implications for society on the longer term and maybe even an understanding of the exponential function and network effects, are elite. Most people simply do not have the mental capacity to understand all of that at once. So when someone like the op comes along, who only takes a months long look at things and fails to take into account even the past years price history, there is a reaction. It's a toddler telling a university student why he is a fool.

And they were always shitcoins. They offered nothing useful and therefore failed.

The issue though is I have no confidence in the people who claim to understand Bitcoin either. Shrem and Karpeles have turned out to be crooks, the BTC Foundation has been doing nothing but squabbling like children for the last few months now, I also never saw a case of more impotence when I saw all the reps trying to defend Bitcoin at the NY regulation conference a few weeks back. They casually sat there and allowed lies to be uttered in front of everyone by the establishment and did little to counter them, I know there is decorum and all but really come on.

To top it off you have exchanges like btc-e whose members constantly cry about "shitcoins" like Doge while propping up dead and equally useless coins like Feathercoin or Terracoin, the whole thing is like payola with the old established coins being kept alive because of politics and tyrannical mods like Koolio banning you for any mention of competition while he simultaneously is developing and selling ASICs to mine for all these "shit" scrypt coins. I find the incestous business relationships around here questionable, like how Litecoin is propped up as the "silver" to Bitcoin's gold while Charlie Lee's brother runs one of the biggest exchanges in the world. What better way to make a fortune than develop an alternative to Bitcoin, hype it up for a year, and then have your brother sell your own creation on his exchange? And people say a 1% premine by a dev is crooked.

It only gets worse now with this whole Operation Scamcoin thing, instead of fixing problems in your own house we got people running around here trying 51% attacks and threatening to DDOS projects they don't like, extorting devs for money for the "permission" to make a coin (and where do you think this money is going, hmmmm)..

It is also kind of insulting to me that BTCtalk has been bantering around for months now about how Bitcoin is going to $100k a coin, maybe even a million dollars. This exuberant hype is what has been driving the newbies in, then the minute the Chinese sneeze everyone starts selling out leaving the newbies with the bags, yeah if you collected thousands of Bitcoins for pennies, a 50% drop in price might not be so bad when you are wealthy, but for working class schmucks who were promised a chance to escape the clutches of a debt-ridden society and rampant unemployment and who put up a good chunk of their salary to join the movement, it feels like a betrayal and only lends ammunition to the accusation BTC is a ponzi scheme. Where are all you hardcore libertarian types around to stand up to the Chicoms and tell them to screw off? You are dumping your coins and running off with fiat like scared little puppies. I thought Bitcoin users weren't supposed to care what oppressive governments think?

Finally the top 1% owning 80% of the Bitcoins doesn't speak well for decentralization, and how many of these coins are owned by immature teenagers who get their news from reddit?

Sorry but my experience so far in the last few months has been finding the whole thing to be amateur hour and a circus show.

And Satoshi needs to show himself. This "mysterious creator" bullshit is getting old, everyone attacked the creator of AUR for being equally anonymous but somehow think Satoshi gets to be immune from such criticism. I am still not even sure Bitcoin is not an NSA project. The movement needs a leader and a confidence boost and him revealing himself could do that.

So don't trust, learn. Don't use exchanges you don't trust, you wouldn't be the first. Don't invest in shitcoins (that would be almost all of them). Place a bet on the price on bitbet if you are sure enough, like others have done, put your money where your mouth is. Don't invest or trade on emotion. None of that changes fundamentals, your complaint is with human nature and not with the technology itself.

On btc-e specifically, I don't use it anymore due to several red flags popping up over the past few months. Most recently, I noticed they banned the IP my VPN uses. Even if I trusted them, it would be impossible to use them safely over wifis when traveling which is a requirement for me.

[bclcjunkie]

nice... one pair of weak hands down more to go...

[log2exp]

Define criminals. There are ones that doing the drug trafficking is the apparent one, how about the ones got bailed out by our tax money and still enjoying their lavish lifestyle. For all stocks, the ultimate winners are the very few in the board meeting of that company.

Bitcoin is about bring power back to the masses, you failed to see the ever growing applications on top of this protocol.

[solid12345]

nice... one pair of weak hands down more to go...

See this is exactly my problem with crypto at the moment, it feels like one big game to extort more money and more Bitcoins from the next new pool of new victims, it feels less like a "community" but everyone here is trying to outcon everybody else, obviously the alt game is more rife with it because with lower volume the price manipulation is more apparent but don't kid yourself Bitcoin and Litecoin has the same problem it just moves at a slower pace.

I know this is just the way the finance world works but if Bitcoin were more evenly distributed, such manipulations would be harder to do, but all it takes is a few big whales who are gluttonous with Bitcoin crashing the market just to get more coins, it doesn't help mass adoption at all.

I think the biggest mistake Satoshi made was not making mining for Bitcoin difficult in its early stages that it allowed a few people to hoard most of the coins for just a few dollars of electricity.

[FeedbackLoop]

Define criminals. There are ones that doing the drug trafficking is the apparent one, how about the ones got bailed out by our tax money and still enjoying their lavish lifestyle. For all stocks, the ultimate winners are the very few in the board meeting of that company.

Bitcoin is about bring power back to the masses, you failed to see the ever growing applications on top of this protocol.

I am also interested in a definition of criminals. Fiat is very much generated by criminal organizations at this stage.

[bclcjunkie]

dude don't get me wrong it's trading 101, you're absolutely free to invest/sell/buy anyway you like, but don't expect someone to come and hug you for your loss... you don't get that for losing on stock trading floor right? i do get pissed off at weak hands and i'm not denying it because weak hands to me is weak hands, these breed jump ship as soon as it starts shaking and undermine bitcoin ecosystem, they never learn, they get burnt once and start whining rest of their lives instead of getting up and keep trying... we need bitcoin believers and not flaky hands that exit as soon as they smell blood on the street... it's a free market and if you feel you're being extorted it's because you allow yourself to be... by now everyone should be aware that bitcoin is under attack by manipulators and everything else is either pure fud or temporary shift in the way things are going to be... but fundamentally it's still the same... so either you take advantage of it and make that work against them or you walk away... i'll welcome anyone to my community who has balls big enough to withstand all this fud and finally realize in long term benefits of bitcoin...

nice... one pair of weak hands down more to go...

See this is exactly my problem with crypto at the moment, it feels like one big game to extort more money and more Bitcoins from the next new pool of new victims, it feels less like a "community" but everyone here is trying to outcon everybody else, obviously the alt game is more rife with it because with lower volume the price manipulation is more apparent but don't kid yourself Bitcoin and Litecoin has the same problem it just moves at a slower pace.

I know this is just the way the finance world works but if Bitcoin were more evenly distributed, such manipulations would be harder to do, but all it takes is a few big whales who are gluttonous with Bitcoin crashing the market just to get more coins, it doesn't help mass adoption at all.

I think the biggest mistake Satoshi made was not making mining for Bitcoin difficult in its early stages that it allowed a few people to hoard most of the coins for just a few dollars of electricity.

[solid12345]

dude don't get me wrong it's trading 101, you're absolutely free to invest/sell/buy anyway you like, but don't expect someone to come and hug you for your loss... you don't get that for losing on stock trading floor right?

I'm not asking for anyone to hug me, if anything i've been punished for NOT having weak hands, have lost a few BTC holding onto crappy alts that just sank deeper and deeper and I held strong and didn't sell out and got burned in the end. All i'm saying is whales should think of the ramifications of what they are doing, is it worth harming the future of Bitcoin just to make a few extra coins, that's all. Playing the dips for 1-2% gains is one thing, but conspiring with other whales to tank the market as much as 50-60% and scoop up all the coins from the weak hands doesn't do anyone good in the long run. This extreme volatility only hurts mass adoption, doesn't help it.

[Equus]

I still don't understand why you would get out completely.

Buy back in today and congratulate yourself for your short trade.   Put the BTC in a wallet, and start looking for fun things to buy with them.


The key is to consider all the money you sink into BTC an immediate loss.  Then, any value you find in it is bonus money.

[favelle75]

if a stock doesn't give you any profit for 3 months it is unlikely it will give you profit over the course of the year, so consider to sell

That is literally the stupidest thing I have ever heard. Sorry.

[MoreFun]

if a stock doesn't give you any profit for 3 months it is unlikely it will give you profit over the course of the year, so consider to sell

That is literally the stupidest thing I have ever heard. Sorry.

Your are not alone.