Private Keys vs Seed Phrases- What They Are and Why They Matter

[pooya87]

a public key (like your account number, which you can share to receive funds)

Considering that in Bitcoin and a lot of altcoins that copied the concept from Bitcoin, there is no such thing as "account number" calling public key that makes little sense.
Public key is just the public part of the duo that can be shared but in cryptocurrencies like Bitcoin, you don't share that. Instead you share your address that is computed using the public key.

The private key makes use of an alphanumeric string

A private key is just a big number (in almost all coins it is 256-bit) and that big integer can be encoded any way you like. In Bitcoin it is usually encoded using Base58 but you can encode it using any other algorithm yourself. For example here is a random private key encoded using BIP39 word list:

Code:

L1ejLLY7ixNwU1CrPtERLh8ZhXeskuJRNMwgZBPDbsqxuF5Ba1X2

loud series illness stereo ceiling gun define endless mechanic negative drop april junior half build quit strike shell ill dumb empower surface crawl cable

A seed phrase (also called a recovery phrase) is a group of 12 or 24 random words

It is worth knowing 12 or 24 are the most common number of words in a mnemonic. However depending on the algorithm, it can be any number.

[cryptoaddictchie]

It's easier to backup seed phrases because they are just words, private keys consists of signs that ever existed, some are even capital letters and small letters sensitive with signs depending on the crypto project blockchain, I've seen a lot.

True I actually prefer the seed phrase instead of the private key due to this matter. However does this seed phrase is prone to brutal force? I mean its words so its quite easily be cracked by some mfers out there or private key is easier? Do we have some info or scenario someone able to do cracked it?

[RockBell]

True I actually prefer the seed phrase instead of the private key due to this matter. However does this seed phrase is prone to brutal force? I mean its words so its quite easily be cracked by some mfers out there or private key is easier? Do we have some info or scenario someone able to do cracked it?

Both are actually important because when you don't keep them safe incase the holder don't have access to the wallet you will use any of the above to have access to the wallet and those that are holding for a long time need to keep both the seed phrase and the private key safe and majority of people actually prefer to use seed phrase than private key. The only challenge is that people are still finding it very difficult to keep it safe because since it contains a lot of latter's people are always trying to save it online which is a wrong thing to do because it been connected online it can be hacked.

[khaled0111]

True I actually prefer the seed phrase instead of the private key due to this matter.

That’s not the only advantage of using seeds, though. When you back up a seed, you back up a whole wallet (infinte number of addresses), while when you back up a private key, you back up a single address. Backing up private keys becomes impractical when you have many addresses.

However does this seed phrase is prone to brutal force? I mean its words so its quite easily be cracked by some mfers out there or private key is easier?

It depends on how many words you know. If you don’t know any of them, then it’s almost impossible to find a wallet with funds just by brute forcing its seed.

[MusaMohamed]

It is worth knowing 12 or 24 are the most common number of words in a mnemonic. However depending on the algorithm, it can be any number.

It can be different numbers than 12 and 24, and it can be different in security with same 12 words or 24 words.

This article from Jameson Lopp gave many examples of bad seed phrases.
How Many Bitcoin Seed Phrases Are Only One Repeated Word?

To be clear, the BIP39 specification allows for generation of seed phrases that consist of 3 / 6 / 9 / 12 / 15 / 18 / 21 / 24 words, but for brevity I'll stick to the most commonly used 12 and 24 word lengths.

It turns out there are 130 valid seed phrases that are the same word repeated 12 times:

They are examples of bad seed phrases need to be avoided. It can be only a test as I don't know any wallet softwares create such seed phrases as there is no reports on this issue as far as I know.

[cryptomaniac_xxx]

It's easier to backup seed phrases because they are just words, private keys consists of signs that ever existed, some are even capital letters and small letters sensitive with signs depending on the crypto project blockchain, I've seen a lot.

True I actually prefer the seed phrase instead of the private key due to this matter. However does this seed phrase is prone to brutal force? I mean its words so its quite easily be cracked by some mfers out there or private key is easier? Do we have some info or scenario someone able to do cracked it?

It might take some time to brute force a mnemonic phrase, if let's say BIP39.

12 word seed phrase has 128 bits of entropy.
24 word seed phrase that has 256 bits of entropy.

So the chance is really that tiny.

[Hyphen(-)]

Well explained on the difference, Both our seed phrase and private key are very useful and personal informations that must be stored very well. So while it's not bad to store your seed phrase on paper, it's better to store them in a fireproof safe or it can be engraved on a steel plate for a better long term security for your wallet And also, the best practices for this is to always have more than one copy of your seed phrases stored, just in case because who knows anything can happen it's better to stay ahead of any mistakes or incident that will compromise the asses to your wallet.

Exactly, written them on paper is one of the ways to save the seed phrase, but it is advisable to duplicate the copy and store them in a very safe place where only you will have access to.
However, against natural disasters like fire out brake, earthquakes, and floods; you can engrave the words in a metallic material to avoid being  washed away by water, or being burned by fire; doing this can be the best form of saving your seed phrase.

Saving your seed phrase online is the in either emails or saving them in your phone notes can be the worst method of saving your seed phrase because many of us feels so lazy to write the seed phrase down, they prefer ti screenshot the words and leave it in their phones which is very risky.

[tbct_mt2]

Exactly, written them on paper is one of the ways to save the seed phrase, but it is advisable to duplicate the copy and store them in a very safe place where only you will have access to.
However, against natural disasters like fire out brake, earthquakes, and floods; you can engrave the words in a metallic material to avoid being  washed away by water, or being burned by fire; doing this can be the best form of saving your seed phrase.

It is recommended to have mulitple backups because having only one single backup is so risky. There is possibility that you are in a situation when you lost both your original wallet and the only wallet backup. It, if happens, will turn to a nightmare for you because without anything left for wallet recovery, you lost that wallet forever.

The advice is always make multiple wallet backups, that you said, but it's not enough. Make multiple wallet backups in different formats in order to avoid situation when one format is damaged or even destroyed, you will have the others to use. It is also recommended to store different wallet backups at different places, just in case disaster comes in one place, you will have other usable backups in other locations.

How to back up a seed phrase.

[knowngunman]

Exactly, written them on paper is one of the ways to save the seed phrase, but it is advisable to duplicate the copy and store them in a very safe place where only you will have access to.
However, against natural disasters like fire out brake, earthquakes, and floods; you can engrave the words in a metallic material to avoid being  washed away by water, or being burned by fire; doing this can be the best form of saving your seed phrase.

Although, having a multiple copy of your seed or private key should enhance the safety of your funds but in some cases, it poses a set back to your security due to misplacement or inability to safeguard all at the same time. Having access to any of other copies will render the main one useless no matter how secure it is.

Saving your seed phrase online is the in either emails or saving them in your phone notes can be the worst method of saving your seed phrase because many of us feels so lazy to write the seed phrase down, they prefer ti screenshot the words and leave it in their phones which is very risky.

If this is still happening, it means people are not learning anything about securing their assets. Having your private keys screenshot on phone is exposing you to (1) your close friends or family who might have access to your phone and (2) the app developers whom you grant access to your file by using their app on your phone. At this stage, we should have outgrown the habit of storing our keys online or having them screenshot.

[reagansimms]

After understanding the importance of private keys and seed phrases, it is also necessary to explain why they need to be kept secret and stored in the safest place. It's important to emphasize that if you don't own your seed phrase/private key, you don't own your Bitcoin. Therefore, your private key/seed phrase is the most important part of owning Bitcoin and other crypto assets. Security needs to be enhanced to prevent your assets from being easily lost or hacked by malicious parties.

There are so many ways to store it, but everyone has a different method that is considered safe, comfortable and easy. Usually most crypto users store it on computers, flash drives and other devices, but most senior users on the Bitcointalk forum do not recommend storing PK/SP on these devices because they are very vulnerable to attacks and other unexpected things.

Always improve your discipline and get used to keeping it out of reach of people to protect the assets stored in your wallet. Writing on paper is also not a bad idea, but if you feel that paper is easily damaged or the writing fades when it comes into contact with water, maybe you can try printing it on metal.

[Callido]

True I actually prefer the seed phrase instead of the private key due to this matter. However does this seed phrase is prone to brutal force? I mean its words so its quite easily be cracked by some mfers out there or private key is easier? Do we have some info or scenario someone able to do cracked it?

Private keys can be generated from seed phrase, one seed phrase can generate multiple private keys. Both seed phrase and private keys allow access to wallet, once they are tampered anyone can have access to Bitcoin stored in the wallet. As of now, brute forcing seems impossible but in the near future with more computing, it might become possible to brute force a wallet secured with a seed phrase or private key.

[Cookdata]

True I actually prefer the seed phrase instead of the private key due to this matter. However does this seed phrase is prone to brutal force? I mean its words so its quite easily be cracked by some mfers out there or private key is easier? Do we have some info or scenario someone able to do cracked it?

Private keys can be generated from seed phrase, one seed phrase can generate multiple private keys. Both seed phrase and private keys allow access to wallet, once they are tampered anyone can have access to Bitcoin stored in the wallet. As of now, brute forcing seems impossible but in the near future with more computing, it might become possible to brute force a wallet secured with a seed phrase or private key.

Brute force right now is like you don't have anything to do and you want to some of your time. It's true that there are speculations about quantum computers and how they can break cryptographic functions of Bitcoin but the way approval of public used will have to come from the government first before it's public and with the way it's predicted to do alot of damage, government will not let it become a public tool, imagine if it's becomes something military used to spy on each other, Bitcoin is going to be their least concern because they hold it too.

If Quantum computer becomes a regular thing, rest assure there is going to be a new development to safely encrypt Bitcoin that no any other computer can break. Go back and check the history of cryptographic functions that were all strong and difficult to decrypt back in the days, modern computers were able to bypass them and solve them but new ones are available that this new modern computers can decrypt, that's going to be the faith of quantum computers when the time is right.

[alegotardo]

Great explanation! You demonstrated the similarity between the two points very well, and I think could add some points that the most people overlook in practice. For veterans, you already know that most crypto losses dont happen because have a failure in the blockchain or wallet, but rather due to carelessness with the private key or seed phrase.

In fact, its not uncommon to see newbies sharing screenshots of this, saving them to a notepad in their phone, by email or even uploading them in the cloud. This is a perfect opportunity for hackers, or even close relatives and friends who have easy access to this.

But something you didn't mention is that no one thinks about inheritance. What if something happens to you and someone in your family or someone you trust has access to your wallets and can recover them? There's no bank or other major entity that will help them gain this access. Having a plan for this will prevent your coins from being trapped forever.

So...keep it safe, but allow it to be retrieved by people you trust.

[Popkon6]

- Store them offline (write them on paper or make use of a hardware backup).
-Avoid saving them in your phone or computer where they could be hacked.

Yes, it is true that the more secure the private key of a wallet, the more secure his wallet is. So of course, these keys should never be left unattended, the more secure you keep them, the more careful you are. I have heard stories of many wallets being hacked, just because the pictures are left unattended and in an unsecured place, many of them get hacked and a lot of money is lost.
So it is best to write down the keys of these crypto wallets on a piece of paper in a diary and keep it in the safest and most secure place.

[EluguHcman]

Great explanation! You demonstrated the similarity between the two points very well, and I think could add some points that the most people overlook in practice. For veterans, you already know that most crypto losses dont happen because have a failure in the blockchain or wallet, but rather due to carelessness with the private key or seed phrase.

In fact, its not uncommon to see newbies sharing screenshots of this, saving them to a notepad in their phone, by email or even uploading them in the cloud. This is a perfect opportunity for hackers, or even close relatives and friends who have easy access to this.

It is very crucial for beginners to stay aware and highlighted about the risks of loosing funds to third parties which is pegged on the storage system of their secrets keys.
The means by which those private keys are handled determines the security terms of your funds.

There are varieties to store wallets keys secured which can best be determined by our surroundings if it is an off-line storage. On-line storage might not really be a full threat neither trusted but being more than conscious so that you don't associate or link it storage system to a public accessibility or storing to vulnerable online system where hackers can smuggle in and gains access to your supposed privacy.

But something you didn't mention is that no one thinks about inheritance. What if something happens to you and someone in your family or someone you trust has access to your wallets and can recover them? There's no bank or other major entity that will help them gain this access. Having a plan for this will prevent your coins from being trapped forever.

So...keep it safe, but allow it to be retrieved by people you trust.

Here is where other problems of keeping safe lies because you will have to consider betraying as the case maybe, humans are liable to compromise untimely. But in any case, there is always necessity to atleast trust someone for one thing because at a critical times, you might be in need for intervention.

Talking about after live is something crucial to be put in considerations because it will been of no essence if family or loved ones can not inherit your labour (funds) if they don't have the access to your wallet.

[Awaklara]

Talking about after live is something crucial to be put in considerations because it will been of no essence if family or loved ones can not inherit your labour (funds) if they don't have the access to your wallet.

You cannot possibly live as a family without trusting at least one member of your family. You certainly have concerns and judgments about your wife or children, who are closest to you, with whom you can share stories about your crypto asset ownership. You may not need to share your recovery seed and private keys with them. When the time comes, you should inform them about what you have and what you can pass on.
Currently, Bitcoin is no longer a highly secretive asset. In the future, every child may already have knowledge and even possess their own Bitcoin.

[Juicyhome]

You cannot possibly live as a family without trusting at least one member of your family. You certainly have concerns and judgments about your wife or children, who are closest to you, with whom you can share stories about your crypto asset ownership. You may not need to share your recovery seed and private keys with them. When the time comes, you should inform them about what you have and what you can pass on.
Currently, Bitcoin is no longer a highly secretive asset. In the future, every child may already have knowledge and even possess their own Bitcoin.

You are right mate, if you do not trust any member of your family then, you are the problem. In the past have lost my very first trust wallet till date, no trace of the secrete phrases and i have some crypto assets in it. I lost my phone and relocated, my jotter where i wrote it, i could not find it. That is how i lost huge sum of dollars.  I did not share my secret phrases with any of my siblings because the academy that taught me crypto advised us not to share it with any one. Have learnt my lesson, now my brothers have all my passwords and secrete pharse, if they want to scam me let it be family.

[NotATether]

You are right mate, if you do not trust any member of your family then, you are the problem. In the past have lost my very first trust wallet till date, no trace of the secrete phrases and i have some crypto assets in it. I lost my phone and relocated, my jotter where i wrote it, i could not find it. That is how i lost huge sum of dollars.  I did not share my secret phrases with any of my siblings because the academy that taught me crypto advised us not to share it with any one. Have learnt my lesson, now my brothers have all my passwords and secrete pharse, if they want to scam me let it be family.

Hmm... I disagree. Money can destroy a lot of families. It makes them resort to borrowing money from people, arguing with each other constantly about money, and even stealing from each other. In fact, it looks like it is destroying my own now, not that there is much I can do about it.

That is the reason why I don't tell anyone about Bitcoin.

Then again, I am planning to move out, so there's that.

[pooya87]

It is worth knowing 12 or 24 are the most common number of words in a mnemonic. However depending on the algorithm, it can be any number.

It can be different numbers than 12 and 24, and it can be different in security with same 12 words or 24 words.

This article from Jameson Lopp gave many examples of bad seed phrases.
How Many Bitcoin Seed Phrases Are Only One Repeated Word?

To be clear, the BIP39 specification allows for generation of seed phrases that consist of 3 / 6 / 9 / 12 / 15 / 18 / 21 / 24 words, but for brevity I'll stick to the most commonly used 12 and 24 word lengths.

They are examples of bad seed phrases need to be avoided. It can be only a test as I don't know any wallet softwares create such seed phrases as there is no reports on this issue as far as I know.

Actually the BIP-39 text is very clearly stating that "The allowed size of ENT is 128-256 bits" which means it does NOT allow generation of any mnemonic with entropy that is smaller than 128 bits (12 words).

What I said above about the "algorithm" was about other mnemonic algorithms out there that allow other word lists with different lengths that can produce a mnemonic with smaller number of words but with the same security. Remember that these words are just encoding of an underlying entropy and as long as that entropy is bigger than 128 bits, the derives keys are considered secure.

Ref: https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/blob/master/bip-0039.mediawiki

[Awaklara]

Have learnt my lesson, now my brothers have all my passwords and secrete pharse, if they want to scam me let it be family.

Can't you still copy another recovery seed and store it in a different place if you don't want to repeat your experience? Actually, you don’t have to share the password and recovery seed with all your siblings. You can share stories related to your asset ownership but don’t share everything, including password details and recovery seeds. You really need to understand your siblings' character well. Surely you have heard of family stories that were destroyed because of money. But you have judgment about your siblings.