Trump & Putin meeting in Alaska — peace talks or PR show?

[JeromeTash]

Yeah... Putin was welcomed not like war criminal, more like Trump's friend or partner. Any Western leaders didn't got such welcome by Trump. And looks that only winner of this meeting is Putin. Where all these promised ultimatums, sanctions and etc?
Putin got what he wanted. According to recent rumours, they agreed that Ukraine should cede remaining part of Donbas to Russia and then Russia will stop offense in South - Zaporizhia and Kherson. What a great deal!
Offcourse that Zelensky won't agree with this.

More or so with the ongoing genocide of Palestinians by Israel, backed by the same United States of America and Donald Trump, and they think they have a leverage over Putin or perhaps they think he doesn't know what is going on?
If Trump is so serious about peace, left him stop funding the murderers and also stop that Middle East massacre ASAP, otherwise that he is doing is just "PR"

[paxmao]

Trump having a B-2 bomber fly overhead when he meets Putin is such a BDE move. It’s almost unreal having a President will balls after the Biden Administration. So thankful.

BDE move?
I personally call it an "unwise" move. You have a peace deal to broker but then you go on to flex your weapons on the day of negotiations/talks. What a great way of trying to convince an egomaniac to stop a war 

You people really think Putin is that stupid?

Yeah... Putin was welcomed not like war criminal, more like Trump's friend or partner. Any Western leaders didn't got such welcome by Trump. And looks that only winner of this meeting is Putin. Where all these promised ultimatums, sanctions and etc?
Putin got what he wanted. According to recent rumours, they agreed that Ukraine should cede remaining part of Donbas to Russia and then Russia will stop offense in South - Zaporizhia and Kherson. What a great deal!
Offcourse that Zelensky won't agree with this.

I think Zelensky may agree, but probably not to hand over any territory, just accepting the control zones as they are.

Let me give you my ratioinale:

- This may be accepted as a de-facto situation, not recognising the borders or the legality.
- This may be accepted under pressure by the current US President - depending on how that pressure looks like.
- There may be conditions about prisoners, children and other matters.

You loose a lot, and it is not fair and it should not be profitable to invade - so morally, it is unacceptable. However, you keep Ukraine, you still have your choice of government and there is a good chance of creating a proper defence agreement with Europe - sufficient for Ruzzia to think twice about further adventures (anyway Putin is getting old).

Depending on other conditions such as army limitations, security and free choices for Ukranians, this may be the best option available as of now.

[LTU_btc]

I think Zelensky may agree, but probably not to hand over any territory, just accepting the control zones as they are.

Let me give you my ratioinale:

- This may be accepted as a de-facto situation, not recognising the borders or the legality.
- This may be accepted under pressure by the current US President - depending on how that pressure looks like.
- There may be conditions about prisoners, children and other matters.

You loose a lot, and it is not fair and it should not be profitable to invade - so morally, it is unacceptable. However, you keep Ukraine, you still have your choice of government and there is a good chance of creating a proper defence agreement with Europe - sufficient for Ruzzia to think twice about further adventures (anyway Putin is getting old).

Depending on other conditions such as army limitations, security and free choices for Ukranians, this may be the best option available as of now.

There is no talk about recognizing occupied territories as part of Russia officially. Just de facto, no de jure. I think that Zelensky may agree to froze conflict at current front line. But I don't see him to agree leaving whole Donbas to Russia. They would have to withdraw troops from cities like Kramatorsk, Slovyansk, Pokrovsk. They were holding these cities for so long. They were in conflict zone since the beginning in 2014.
Initially before mmeting Trump talked about territory exchanges between Ukraine and Russia. But now we have situation where only Ukraine would have to give away their territory, while Russia just would stop offensive in South without giving any territorial discounts.

[paxmao]

I think Zelensky may agree, but probably not to hand over any territory, just accepting the control zones as they are.

Let me give you my ratioinale:

- This may be accepted as a de-facto situation, not recognising the borders or the legality.
- This may be accepted under pressure by the current US President - depending on how that pressure looks like.
- There may be conditions about prisoners, children and other matters.

You loose a lot, and it is not fair and it should not be profitable to invade - so morally, it is unacceptable. However, you keep Ukraine, you still have your choice of government and there is a good chance of creating a proper defence agreement with Europe - sufficient for Ruzzia to think twice about further adventures (anyway Putin is getting old).

Depending on other conditions such as army limitations, security and free choices for Ukranians, this may be the best option available as of now.

There is no talk about recognizing occupied territories as part of Russia officially. Just de facto, no de jure. I think that Zelensky may agree to froze conflict at current front line. But I don't see him to agree leaving whole Donbas to Russia. They would have to withdraw troops from cities like Kramatorsk, Slovyansk, Pokrovsk. They were holding these cities for so long. They were in conflict zone since the beginning in 2014.
Initially before mmeting Trump talked about territory exchanges between Ukraine and Russia. But now we have situation where only Ukraine would have to give away their territory, while Russia just would stop offensive in South without giving any territorial discounts.

I agree, giving away territory is probably out of the question. The current defensive line of those localities is something that Ukraine needs for current and future defence. It is a deterrent in itself. Freezing the current line, with minor interchanges to avoid dividing cities and stuff like that may be possible.

The most important part of any deal is what is not quite known yet. The security guarantees that Ukraine needs.

[Marykeller]

I think that's not PR show. For me it looks that Trump really want to end his war and get Nobel Peace Prize for it. But some of his statements looks that he is living in alternative reality.
I wish that this meeting would give results, it's time to end this war. But I'm afraid that again it will end without any result. First because fate of Ukraine can't be decided without Ukraine. And also because it looks that Putin isn't ready to make any discounts on their requirements.

I don’t think these talks will lead to anything. Trump just wants that Peace Prize for his own ego, not real change. Russians won’t stop at what they’ve taken — they’ll just regroup and start again. It’s hard to negotiate with them when they’ve got little left to lose.

For Putin to honor Trump's visit to Alaska, that means the deal will lead to a positive outcome. Putin and Trump wouldn't meet over nothing meaningful without a good outcome. We saw the way Trump invited Zelensky to the white house just to bash him to draw Putin's attention. I think that paid out for Trump to win Putin over because if it were Biden, Putin wouldn't honor his visitation, the war between Ukraine and Russia would be escalating. But with this meeting, we look forward to complete ceasefire between Russia and Ukraine

[o48o]

For Putin to honor Trump's visit to Alaska, that means the deal will lead to a positive outcome. Putin and Trump wouldn't meet over nothing meaningful without a good outcome. We saw the way Trump invited Zelensky to the white house just to bash him to draw Putin's attention. I think that paid out for Trump to win Putin over because if it were Biden, Putin wouldn't honor his visitation, the war between Ukraine and Russia would be escalating. But with this meeting, we look forward to complete ceasefire between Russia and Ukraine

Are you kidding me? Have you paid any attention to this? I mean good outcome for whom? Trump openly sides with Putin and says that peace is up to Zelenskyy surrendering now. I mean you posted this today, so have you read the news about this today?

Or how would you like a deal where guy from another country makes a deal with your neighbor, that he can take over half of your house, and it's now up to you to honor this deal. Putin hasn't done anything to de-escalate the situation. Neither has Trump.

[montaga]

The meeting was more like a date or the moneymaster summon the apprentice. (Lol thinking back, six times bankrupt and teaching how its done  )

China at this stage could invade Russia without shooting, simple manpower would overrun eastern Russia.
Russia now lost 4000 tanks have no more meaningful airdefence and a train from Moscow takes a week to bring reenforcement  and supply.
One single saboteur could even stop that lifeline.

The date was intended to shape a narrative, mediapower. (It was a fake Putin anyway)
https://youtu.be/gInFfkaayJI

[coolcoinz]

It's funny that Putin, who knows he can't take over Ukraine because he's out tanks and can only move forward by meters with large loss of men and equipment, still demands the same things. Terms that Ukraine cannot meet, like giving away all the occupied territories. They could give Russia Crimea, which they took over so long ago that it doesn't really matter, but Putin is greedy. He wants to show his people that all the losses were worth it because he won something for Russia.

IMO they are not going to get anywhere with such demands, especially when we all see satellite images. We know that Putin is out of vehicles and his refineries are burning. He should take anything he can get at this point.

[BADecker]

It's funny that Putin, who knows he can't take over Ukraine because he's out tanks and can only move forward by meters with large loss of men and equipment, still demands the same things. Terms that Ukraine cannot meet, like giving away all the occupied territories. They could give Russia Crimea, which they took over so long ago that it doesn't really matter, but Putin is greedy. He wants to show his people that all the losses were worth it because he won something for Russia.

IMO they are not going to get anywhere with such demands, especially when we all see satellite images. We know that Putin is out of vehicles and his refineries are burning. He should take anything he can get at this point.

It's funny that Putin, who knows that he can wipe Ukraine out in a day, with Oreshnik and now with Burevestnik, sits around and plays the game like he can't win any faster than he is winning.

Btw, Oreshnik and Burevestnik barely have anything that can stop them anywhere in the world. And if you add all the nukes in subs, Russia would own the world if she only took action.

Gotta get into the mind and spirit of Russians and Putin to see why they just don't take over the world.

[Judith87403]

Yeah... Putin was welcomed not like war criminal, more like Trump's friend or partner. Any Western leaders didn't got such welcome by Trump. And looks that only winner of this meeting is Putin. Where all these promised ultimatums, sanctions and etc?
Putin got what he wanted. According to recent rumours, they agreed that Ukraine should cede remaining part of Donbas to Russia and then Russia will stop offense in South - Zaporizhia and Kherson. What a great deal!
Offcourse that Zelensky won't agree with this.

More or so with the ongoing genocide of Palestinians by Israel, backed by the same United States of America and Donald Trump, and they think they have a leverage over Putin or perhaps they think he doesn't know what is going on?
If Trump is so serious about peace, left him stop funding the murderers and also stop that Middle East massacre ASAP, otherwise that he is doing is just "PR"

The world already knows better unlythose who only chooses to act ignorant of what's really going on in the middle east and eastern europe. Lots of people still doesn't know that israel committed a lot of genocide and are still doing same till date on gaza and funny enough they are backed by this very united states of america and not just trump because different adminstration has been doing exactly the same thing to the people of gaza. Since all these years, no sanction on israel but they were so quick to sanction russia after they invaded ukraine three years ago. We know better why they are sanctioned russia and we know almost exactly why putin is fighting them.

[paxmao]

For Putin to honor Trump's visit to Alaska, that means the deal will lead to a positive outcome. Putin and Trump wouldn't meet over nothing meaningful without a good outcome. We saw the way Trump invited Zelensky to the white house just to bash him to draw Putin's attention. I think that paid out for Trump to win Putin over because if it were Biden, Putin wouldn't honor his visitation, the war between Ukraine and Russia would be escalating. But with this meeting, we look forward to complete ceasefire between Russia and Ukraine

Are you kidding me? Have you paid any attention to this? I mean good outcome for whom? Trump openly sides with Putin and says that peace is up to Zelenskyy surrendering now. I mean you posted this today, so have you read the news about this today?

Or how would you like a deal where guy from another country makes a deal with your neighbor, that he can take over half of your house, and it's now up to you to honor this deal. Putin hasn't done anything to de-escalate the situation. Neither has Trump.

Yep. Either whatever was discussed with Putin has been previously discussed with EU / UK and Ukraine behind the scenes and discretly or the deal would need to be imposed by the US upon a number of countries - not just Ukraine, but all EU.

Trump is willing to play hard, but imposing a deal that is unacceptable to Ukraine and Europe would be considered nearly an adversarial move, rather than what you'd expect from trading partners and culturaly close liberal democracies. Trump is all about displaying force in public, but even he may understand that the US strenght is large but not unlimited.

One of the keys is how much of a real, physical and internationally commited security guarantee does Ukraine get. Anything like we pause the war but we can go again at any moment means that it is better then to keep the fight now that Ruzzia is in a worse position.

[IjawMan]

The personalities that can end the Russia and Ukraine war is Putin and Zelenskyy, not Trump with what he decides or from sanctions he orders. If Putin and Zelenskyy will be willing to sincerely concede those contending territories and give way to a no loser no vanquish solution, the Russia and Ukraine war will die a natural death. 

This sounds impossible and impracticable due to the tied interest from both ends of the warring nations but it's the only rationale to peace been a reality. Several meetings by Trump hosting Zelenskyy or Putin won't end the situation as these meetings are mostly closed  with a PR view.

[coolcoinz]

It's funny that Putin, who knows that he can wipe Ukraine out in a day, with Oreshnik and now with Burevestnik, sits around and plays the game like he can't win any faster than he is winning.

Btw, Oreshnik and Burevestnik barely have anything that can stop them anywhere in the world. And if you add all the nukes in subs, Russia would own the world if she only took action.

Gotta get into the mind and spirit of Russians and Putin to see why they just don't take over the world.

What are you even talking about? We all know what using a nuclear weapon would mean globally, not to mention that he doesn't have the authority to give the order himself. He'd need the support of the Parliament and he's not going to get that because nobody wants to start a global nuclear war. Do you think a nuclear genocide in Ukraine would end at that? Nobody would respond and just let the contaminated air and water flow through Europe and the Black Sea?

[paxmao]

It's funny that Putin, who knows that he can wipe Ukraine out in a day, with Oreshnik and now with Burevestnik, sits around and plays the game like he can't win any faster than he is winning.

Btw, Oreshnik and Burevestnik barely have anything that can stop them anywhere in the world. And if you add all the nukes in subs, Russia would own the world if she only took action.

Gotta get into the mind and spirit of Russians and Putin to see why they just don't take over the world.

What are you even talking about? We all know what using a nuclear weapon would mean globally, not to mention that he doesn't have the authority to give the order himself. He'd need the support of the Parliament and he's not going to get that because nobody wants to start a global nuclear war. Do you think a nuclear genocide in Ukraine would end at that? Nobody would respond and just let the contaminated air and water flow through Europe and the Black Sea?

BA is always speaking of nukes and thinks that a ballistic missile is something exceptional - yes, that is technology from 60 years ago, he just discovered it exists.

Putin has nothing to win from a nuclear escalation - compared that what he may loose like a full NATO involvement and probably a coup and himself killed. That is why that escalation has not happened. It is that simple.

[hellflame]

[_Miracle]

A Trump 2028 hat ---> I cannot with our current storyline it's   worthy except that he means it. No Kings in America ;-)

[paxmao]

A Trump 2028 hat ---> I cannot with our current storyline it's   worthy except that he means it. No Kings in America ;-)

I do not think is going to be as simple as that. While Europe cannot replace fully the US support to Ukraine, there has been plenty of EU money for that purpose. And there can be more and perhaps enough to make things difficult for Ruzzia for a long time.

If Trump wants to get to be a candidate to the Nobel price - which is all his aim if we are honest - he will need to make sure Europe feels there's enough security for the future. I am inclined to think that Europe needs to be nearly self sufficient in defence for the future.

[hellflame]

A Trump 2028 hat ---> I cannot with our current storyline it's   worthy except that he means it. No Kings in America ;-)

TPTB would like to see OBAMA back for 2028 so maybe the maga muggles will get the opposite of what they hoped for if daddy manages to convince everybody it's a good idea.

[Lucius]

Trump having a B-2 bomber fly overhead when he meets Putin is such a BDE move. It’s almost unreal having a President will balls after the Biden Administration. So thankful.

If your president had what he doesn't really have, then he would end the war in 24 hours, as he promised. Instead, he invites a man accused of war crimes to the US and welcomes him with all state honors, and at the same time tells Ukraine that it must give up its territory in order for peace to come.

It is not a contribution to peace, as he wants to show it, but a legitimization of the aggressor country and its actions in the past 3+ years. Ukraine and most EU countries were appalled by the show, but that's nothing new from your kitchen - the guarantees given by the US are obviously worthless, because if you had fulfilled the ones you gave in 1994, then this war would not have happened.

[JeromeTash]

If your president had what he doesn't really have, then he would end the war in 24 hours, as he promised.

Better still, let him go to Moscow and broker the peace deal and end the war. Let him also call out Benjamin Netanyahu and his pack of murders right away, stop supporting them and sanctions them as soon as possible. Now that will be a BDE move, not just selectively picking some show of aircraft in his own State