The struggle for rare earth metals.

[STT]

Used in expensive missiles also I believe.  USA or many places could be the source of rare earths because they aren't rare, its about gigantic amounts of pollution and cheap labor that makes it possible.   I would hope there are ways to work around the exact need for such rare earths, alternate designs that rely on them less.

  I believe in time it wont quite the stranglehold it might be today, Ukraine probably should work to establish trade in this way if it stops the war via commerce that would be ideal over less productive  uses of elements like warfare.

[Mate2237]

The so called wars that are going on in the world is all about resource control the world super powers is struggling to decide which countries will become a dominant force in the world, that is why we are even seeing most of the alignments that are going on in the world because they know that any country that has control of these rare earth metals which improves in technology.



Unfortunately Africa has been on the center of these because Africa has suffered in the hands of these big countries what is disturbing to me is the way that these people has manipulated Africa leaders by corrupting them and even funding terrorism just to make sure that they destabilize the peace and unity of Africa just to make sure that they have unhindered access to these minerals.

[Moreno233]

Used in expensive missiles also I believe.  USA or many places could be the source of rare earths because they aren't rare, its about gigantic amounts of pollution and cheap labor that makes it possible.   I would hope there are ways to work around the exact need for such rare earths, alternate designs that rely on them less.

The reason they ate called rare is because they are not commonly found in large deposits in many places. The more you have them, the more it is to advance in technology. That is why wherever you see them in commercial quantity, the West will come for them even if it means creating wars in those places, they will not spare any effort to do that. That is why you are terrorism ravaging West Africa where these metals are found in commercial quantities.

[fillippone]

The Western world has been exploiting the resources of other nations for centuries. Lastly, it was China that handled all the industrial processing. Now the Western world points fingers at China because its CO2 emissions and pollution are unbearable. Too lazy.
I am wondering how Trump's plan to recover some industrial processing power will fit into this rhetoric, but it's a long shot, versus the incredible dynamics of his positions.

Just because one did a bad thing, doesn't justify other doing a bad thing. Western world and their colonization is the reason why they are so rich.

If you go back a thousand years ago, the gap between Europe and Asia wasn't as big as this, but now when you look at it, it's bigger, that is because of resources being plundered by them.

Should we be okay with another nation doing that? Absolutely not, that's still bad, call for reparations if you want, but not illegal mining.

I would say, a simple solution is right there; all of western world rejects ALL Chinese companies from selling in their nations, until they fix their CO2 emissions, suddenly, China will be the cleanest nation in the world to be allowed to sell again.

It doesn’t work like that.
Firstly, China has to go through exactly the same steps the Western world took. It might be shorter in time and quicker to learn, but they have to go the full route without skipping anything.
Secondly, the kind of retaliation you suggest would immediately be broken by some opportunistic player. It’s not a credible mechanism.

[alegotardo]

Crude oil and gas remain relevant mineral resources but we are gradually seeing another dimension of the struggle for resources. The invasion of Ukraine by Russia has been associated with the quest for these rare earth metals. Other struggles that could have been related to the drive for these raw materials are the coup in some part of West Africa, Donald Trump's intention for the US to take over Greenland and the US support deal with Ukraine.

Do you know what saddens me most about this rush for new gold?

As you said... it greatly affects illegal mining, foreign influx, environmental impact, local communities and others. These populations that have no power to dictate rule and prevent these "invasions". But there are worse... small countries ended selling out to major powers and giving up their sovereignty on exchange for investment promises that donot materialize.

Africa, for example, suffers greatly from this. They've already accepted billion dollars deals with China and the US and in return almost nothing are done to improve the situation of the population that living there. The goverment that should protecte them ended up selling their land for a few quick dollars that ended up being misinvested or stolen from the population through corruption.

Your account touches it very important point: how local communities are affected by a global dispute that in practice is far beyond their control. This relationship between illegal mining, foreign influx and environmental impact shows how geopolitical play unfolds within the borders of countries that lack the power to dictate the rules.

Its the same old vicious cycle: a country is very rich in its natural resources, but it canot exploit them without being exploited at the same time.

[Die_empty]

The Western world has been exploiting the resources of other nations for centuries. Lastly, it was China that handled all the industrial processing. Now the Western world points fingers at China because its CO2 emissions and pollution are unbearable. Too lazy.
I am wondering how Trump's plan to recover some industrial processing power will fit into this rhetoric, but it's a long shot, versus the incredible dynamics of his positions.

Just because one did a bad thing, doesn't justify other doing a bad thing. Western world and their colonization is the reason why they are so rich.

If you go back a thousand years ago, the gap between Europe and Asia wasn't as big as this, but now when you look at it, it's bigger, that is because of resources being plundered by them.

Should we be okay with another nation doing that? Absolutely not, that's still bad, call for reparations if you want, but not illegal mining.

I would say, a simple solution is right there; all of western world rejects ALL Chinese companies from selling in their nations, until they fix their CO2 emissions, suddenly, China will be the cleanest nation in the world to be allowed to sell again.

Claiming that the reason why they are not fully engaged in mining and processing is because of CO2 emissions and pollution, yet buying from China is hypocritical. For Europe to stop depending on China for these resources, it needs to get alternative suppliers. So the only way out is to get involved and make the process clean, if possible. New technologies that will make mining operations environmentally friendly would have to be discovered so that Europe can mine these resources domestically. China and Russia might have dominated the rare earth sector in Africa, but Europe can make it competitive by giving better deals.     

[Emjay24]

~snip

I became interested in this topic because of the current happenings in my area. We started seeing an increase in the population of foreigners (mainly Asians) around our community. Most of them are engaging in illegal mining of materials that we don't know. Some of them were arrested and we later discovered that they were mining some rare earth metals.    

Moving to another country to extract rare materials without permission already tells that there are flaws in the system.
Some parts of the Asian and Western world has always find interest in other people's rare earth metals, especially in those third world countries. What if someone was actually paid?. It happens a lot in so many third world countries. These foreigners makes a deal with either the government or anyone in charge, in exchange for their earth metals.

Sometimes these foreign companies do it smartly, but it's still robbery. Now they come into the country with one excuse of handling a different contract, then they secretly scout for where these rare earth metals are and when they detect some costly ones, they find a way of buying the properties, sealing the whole environment and secretly turning it into a mining and extraction site.

[The Sceptical Chymist]

I became interested in this topic because of the current happenings in my area. We started seeing an increase in the population of foreigners (mainly Asians) around our community. Most of them are engaging in illegal mining of materials that we don't know. Some of them were arrested and we later discovered that they were mining some rare earth metals.    

It's kind of sad that I get most of my world news from posts on this forum, but nevertheless I'm thankful that there are people here from all over the globe and that members like you write about thing like the above, which would probably never be reported on the TV news where I live (so thanks).

And being somewhat of a chemistry geek, I found that pictogram (or whatever the hell you call it) informative; some of those elements I was aware of in terms of their industrial importance--like copper and the platinum group metals, but bismuth and gallium and a few others I had no clue about.  So people are just barging into your area to dig up these metals?  That has got to cause some serious tension, not to mention legal issues.  I'm trying to picture that happening in the US, and my guess is that any foreign miners might last a day before law enforcement booted them out on their asses.  Man oh man.

<snip>

Ugh....I would have merited your post, but after looking way back in your post history it seems clear you've either studied English very studiously or you're getting some help from this forum's dreaded nemesis, AI.

[alegotardo]

Ugh....I would have merited your post, but after looking way back in your post history it seems clear you've either studied English very studiously or you're getting some help from this forum's dreaded nemesis, AI.

My English is basic.... At the past I used full translation and tools to write a perfect text... but I was warned about the dangers about this.
Today I use Google translate for some words or shorts sentences at my own ideas. Now I noticed that my past text have some errors.... I apologize, but I am here to practice and share ideas, not to write perfect English

I just sorry for lose the merits, but otherwise I am calm!

[jackpotmaster]

Recently, a huge reserve of rare Earth was discovered in Sweden. This deposit could be worth billions and shift the geopolitical balance between Europe and China. Yet that deposit won't be dug and used due to enormous environmental concerns about mining operations. The cost for a clean extraction would be too high.

Classic European dumb take, slowly going towards self-destruction and irrelevance with each passing year..

It doesn’t work like that.
Firstly, China has to go through exactly the same steps the Western world took. It might be shorter in time and quicker to learn, but they have to go the full route without skipping anything.
Secondly, the kind of retaliation you suggest would immediately be broken by some opportunistic player. It’s not a credible mechanism.

Learn what? Do you really think that the Chinese think the same as the people in the West? Have you ever been to China?   The problem of the Western mind is that it makes so many assumptions regarding the world, assumptions that it believes are the objective truth of reality. The Chinese will not take any such lessons from the West as there is no lesson here. Exploiting others works well. Why should they stop behavior that is the definition of capitalism?   China is the next super power, and they will dictate the terms. They don't need to follow what the West wants.

And being somewhat of a chemistry geek, I found that pictogram (or whatever the hell you call it) informative; some of those elements I was aware of in terms of their industrial importance--like copper and the platinum group metals, but bismuth and gallium and a few others I had no clue about.  So people are just barging into your area to dig up these metals?  That has got to cause some serious tension, not to mention legal issues.  I'm trying to picture that happening in the US, and my guess is that any foreign miners might last a day before law enforcement booted them out on their asses.  Man oh man.

Yeah they are the less common ones, bismuth is pharma and cosmetics I think and gallium is widely used in electronics. You could hear about it if you watch some physics shows.

[punk.zink]

The Western world has been exploiting the resources of other nations for centuries. Lastly, it was China that handled all the industrial processing. Now the Western world points fingers at China because its CO2 emissions and pollution are unbearable. Too lazy.
I am wondering how Trump's plan to recover some industrial processing power will fit into this rhetoric, but it's a long shot, versus the incredible dynamics of his positions.

Just because one did a bad thing, doesn't justify other doing a bad thing. Western world and their colonization is the reason why they are so rich.

If you go back a thousand years ago, the gap between Europe and Asia wasn't as big as this, but now when you look at it, it's bigger, that is because of resources being plundered by them.

Should we be okay with another nation doing that? Absolutely not, that's still bad, call for reparations if you want, but not illegal mining.

I would say, a simple solution is right there; all of western world rejects ALL Chinese companies from selling in their nations, until they fix their CO2 emissions, suddenly, China will be the cleanest nation in the world to be allowed to sell again.

It doesn’t work like that.
Firstly, China has to go through exactly the same steps the Western world took. It might be shorter in time and quicker to learn, but they have to go the full route without skipping anything.
Secondly, the kind of retaliation you suggest would immediately be broken by some opportunistic player. It’s not a credible mechanism.

REE = Rare Earth Element
REM = Rare Earth Mineral

The essence of business is maximizing profits with minimal capital. This is the application of economic principles, namely optimizing the use of limited resources (capital) to achieve maximum results or profits through effective and efficient management, not just minimal sacrifice. This is achieved by reducing production costs, seeking appropriate market opportunities, and marketing products intelligently. Free markets, as a result of liberalism and democracy, also apply economic principles: increasing market access, encouraging innovation and energy transfer, enriching consumer choices, creating jobs, and increasing foreign exchange. Although there are economic principles within free markets, such as comparative advantage, fair competition, and maximizing profits and minimizing losses, many countries perceive them differently (exploitation, new forms of colonialism, hegemony). The problem, however, is simply a different starting point. Because developed countries build their systems and developing countries follow suit, developing countries have no option but to change the established system.

Since 1840, China has experienced repeated military invasions by imperialist powers, and each war ended in defeat. However, the war against Japanese aggression united the nation for the first time and ended in total victory, restoring China's self-confidence. This victory marked the beginning of the Chinese people's journey towards independence, prosperity, and progress. China subsequently became a founding member of the United Nations (UN) and a permanent member of the Security Council, marking the first time in modern history that China participated in shaping the international order as a great power.
China's role in fighting Japan and being a key ally of the United States in the Pacific War/World War II has been largely forgotten. The memory of the war taught a bitter lesson: that underdevelopment made China vulnerable to attack, which drove China to accelerate scientific and technological innovation.

Simply put, the industrial era can be seen in America, Europe, and China. The time interval is easier to understand. Furthermore, the complexity of post-war national development is very complex, based on priorities and limitations.

For REE itself, Deng Xiaoping made it a national asset and then utilized geological and cost advantages to support domestic industrialization with a pragmatic, non-militant approach, focusing on building domestic processing capacity by preparing a large production base and processing chain. Meanwhile, Xi Jing Ping made REE a geopolitical instrument and strategic value chain: consolidation, export control/export-regime, foreign investment to secure supply & move processing capacity and technology to the BRI corridor. China also uses processing technology assistance to bind regional partners, with coverage of Africa (mine consolidation & concessions), Southeast Asia (investment and processing facilities), Eurasia/Central Asia (sources & transit), and Oceania/Latin America (strategic mines).

[The Sceptical Chymist]

Yeah they are the less common ones, bismuth is pharma and cosmetics I think and gallium is widely used in electronics. You could hear about it if you watch some physics shows.

Bismuth is definitely used in pharmaceuticals like bismuth subsalicylate (Pepto Bismol, the pink stuff used for upset stomach), and for some reason there's a tiny voice ringing in my head that it might also be used in nuclear medicine--but in any case, I still had no idea that demand for it had grown.

And gallium....man, I was just re-reading Plastic Fantastic, a book about the physics fraud Jan Hendrik Schon (I don't know how to put that pair of electrons over the 'o' in his last name, as he's from Germany, lol) and early on there was mention of research being done with copper gallium selenide.  The physics of it has to do with n-type conduction, which is way beyond anything I studied in physics when I was in college, but my point is that it was studied decades ago by researchers in the semiconductor field and by this point might have actual utility in electronics--though that's just a guess on my part.

The above book is an excellent one, by the way, even if it goes back a few years.

[alegotardo]

Yeah they are the less common ones, bismuth is pharma and cosmetics I think and gallium is widely used in electronics. You could hear about it if you watch some physics shows.

Bismuth is definitely used in pharmaceuticals like bismuth subsalicylate (Pepto Bismol, the pink stuff used for upset stomach), and for some reason there's a tiny voice ringing in my head that it might also be used in nuclear medicine--but in any case, I still had no idea that demand for it had grown.

~~~

Physics neverhas my favorite field, so I'm sorry cant contribute to this topic. But now that I've see you talking about it, I've come to realize how these elements can seem "harmless" or even secondary... like bismuth, which is more for medical use or the allium for electronics, but when we look it at global scale, we see what they are critically important. But only in very few countries, and they end  become important elements for sectors that sorely lack them.

I need sayd to reinforcing the initial idea of ​​the OP... local comunities are pressured to allow uncontrolled miner, whicht is sometimes even legalized but with ridiculously low money and  will later become a resource of enormous value and strategic importance.

My question... why other countryes, more serious and honest can't join this fight too? Why don't they invest in these mining countries to build local factory that process these raw materials and generates wealth instead of practically stealing them?

[Darker45]

In the game of rare earth minerals, China is significantly ahead of the US, its closest rival. Looking at the numbers--China's 70% dominance on production and 90% on refining--and considering how this battle plays a significant role in the overall war of global dominance and power, it seems the world is about to be Chinafied.

It helps that China is a dirty player that's laser-focused on the game than on anything else. It's also a big factor that they can send human robots to do the dirty job illegally in many parts of the world. And since they don't care if their citizens are sacrificed in the process, arrested in foreign countries for illegal mining, because they have an unlimited supply and people are dispensable, their dominance is continuous. But it helps that the country has so much leverage in dealing with other countries so that their citizens are simply deported once arrested.

[justdimin]

Claiming that the reason why they are not fully engaged in mining and processing is because of CO2 emissions and pollution, yet buying from China is hypocritical. For Europe to stop depending on China for these resources, it needs to get alternative suppliers. So the only way out is to get involved and make the process clean, if possible. New technologies that will make mining operations environmentally friendly would have to be discovered so that Europe can mine these resources domestically. China and Russia might have dominated the rare earth sector in Africa, but Europe can make it competitive by giving better deals.     

While that is true, finances matter into this. I mean if finance wasn't an issue, we could have all these people just end up with building solar panels and wind turbines all over, in an instant, in 2 years, and would cover need of energy within, simply. Resources and finances matter. China has a lot, and sells cheap, so if Europe doesn't buy from them, they buy limited, and they buy expensive. That is why it's important to make that distinction and you are not going to end up finding that easily, it's going to be trouble.

We should expect this to take some time, but for that to work properly, we need to arrange it to be a lot different, and not like this. So focus on how to do better and get a lot better results for sure.

[Alpha Marine]

It helps that China is a dirty player that's laser-focused on the game than on anything else. It's also a big factor that they can send human robots to do the dirty job illegally in many parts of the world. And since they don't care if their citizens are sacrificed in the process, arrested in foreign countries for illegal mining, because they have an unlimited supply and people are dispensable, their dominance is continuous. But it helps that the country has so much leverage in dealing with other countries so that their citizens are simply deported once arrested.

Another reason why they've been able to do this is that they always appear like friends of the countries they're taking these rare earths from, especially African countries. They paint the US and the West as the bad guys and present themselves as the saviours of the countries. They're beating the US at its own game; it's almost interesting to see.
We can see how they lead the de-dollarisation campaign, all this is part of their ploy to present themselves as the saviours of these countries the US is marginalising, meanwhile, they're doing exactly the same thing, if not worse than what the US are or was doing.

They are also very smart in using the weaknesses of these countries to their advantage. They know how cheap labour is in those countries, so they go ahead and pay very little because no matter the amount they pay, there's always a long queue of workers willing to work.
I always wonder how people see them as the good guys. There are no good guys in this game.

[Ivystar5]

So people are just barging into your area to dig up these metals?  That has got to cause some serious tension, not to mention legal issues.  I'm trying to picture that happening in the US, and my guess is that any foreign miners might last a day before law enforcement booted them out on their asses.  Man oh man.

In most African countries where illegal mining happens, there is always a catalyst to it and some facilitators whom is probably in the government or have some level of power in the countries, so it's about privatisation there has led to illegal mining to erupt to such extent and yeah sure it's perhaps enough to cause a general tension in the country yet such informations are not covered by the news or media's unlike the US where everyone is keeping an eye on the environment.

[Darker45]

~snip~

Another reason why they've been able to do this is that they always appear like friends of the countries they're taking these rare earths from, especially African countries. They paint the US and the West as the bad guys and present themselves as the saviours of the countries. They're beating the US at its own game; it's almost interesting to see.
We can see how they lead the de-dollarisation campaign, all this is part of their ploy to present themselves as the saviours of these countries the US is marginalising, meanwhile, they're doing exactly the same thing, if not worse than what the US are or was doing.

It's quite easy for them to do that because, first, the US has long been bullying other countries and, second, they come with gifts that don't carry a long list of conditions.

China would build you bridges and airports and ports without asking you to change your style of governance, improve human rights condition, boost freedom of the press, and so on. They don't care much if you're a dictator who kills dissidents in a country that treats women poorly, doesn't educate children, and so forth.

And so they're easily welcomed. And so they're freely allowed to desecrate foreign lands mining rare earth minerals.

They are also very smart in using the weaknesses of these countries to their advantage. They know how cheap labour is in those countries, so they go ahead and pay very little because no matter the amount they pay, there's always a long queue of workers willing to work.
I always wonder how people see them as the good guys. There are no good guys in this game.

They even carry with them their own laborers. That's the chinese way. Poverty in their country is so rampant chinese contractors and huge businesses enter foreign countries bringing with them their own disposable slaves who do all the dirty and inhumane jobs 24 hours a day 7 days a week.

[Jostern]

I agree with you that the goals of Russia invading Ukraine wasn't mainly for rare earth metals, but this reason became essential later in negotation file with USA and Europe. Russia first goal is to forbid NATO from setting power army in its frontieres after Ukraine showed its ambitions to join the military ally with NATO. Putin decided to invade Cremea before invading all other regions to create like a safe armyless land between the two countries. Usually there is no single reason to start a war.

The argument between Trump and Zelensky during his visit to America, as well as Trump's pressure on Zelensky to end the war, stemmed from Ukraine's inability to pay the war costs incurred by the United States. The rare earth mineral map Zelensky provided was based on Soviet-era mineral data and has not been verified by modern means. Most of Ukraine's rare earth reserves are based on Soviet-era geological surveys and have not been revalidated since Ukraine's independence. The majority of deposits, including those containing rare earths and lithium, are located in areas under Russian control. Zelensky offered Trump a winning plan, while the reality is that rare earth reserves are virtually non-existent. These reserves may not be economically viable due to high extraction costs and the need for advanced refining technology. Therefore, none of Ukraine's rare earth reserves are internationally recognized as economically viable.

Do you mean that Ukraine had no way to encourage USA but to offer its rare metals map in exchange for logistic and military support? I think you have a point here. All the facts valid what you just said. Those metals are not economically considered accessible so neither Trump or Putin looks really interested on them. While Zelensky has no other offer to give mainly to US because he already garanted the continious support from Europe for geostrategic reasons.

I think the US wouldn’t be helping Ukraine and also the European Union wouldn’t be helping them without knowing there is something they will stand to achieve in aftermath of the war, we know rare metals are quite enormous in Ukraine, I think they must have promised US access to this mineral resources that is why the US seems to be helping and supporting them, and Vladimir Putin knows this things that is why he is also fighting to have possession of this land, Donald Trump meeting with Vladimir Putin they must have discussed the conditions of stopping this war, and Putin might also be asking for the lands where this reserves are, Trump would know this things and it would be a factor of stopping the war.

[Lucius]

~snip~
This is another aspect of the discussion. Exploration of these raw materials would cause more harm than good. One will begin to wonder which technology the US will adopt to explore the resources in Ukraine when exploration starts.

Do you think that the US, with its current policy, will care at all about what kind of technology will be used in the mining of all those rare materials? I'm sure they won't worry too much about environmental protection, because they don't worry too much about it even in their own backyard.

~snip~
I would say, a simple solution is right there; all of western world rejects ALL Chinese companies from selling in their nations, until they fix their CO2 emissions, suddenly, China will be the cleanest nation in the world to be allowed to sell again.

That's impossible, the world depends on China much more than many people think. As many as 7 of the 10 largest seaports are located in China, and the cost of their workforce and the productivity they achieve make them extremely competitive in the world. Just look at how many smartphones are produced in China every year, and what they have been doing with their car industry in recent years is fascinating.

By the way, do you think China is not investing in renewable forms of energy?

China is the world's top electricity producer from renewable energy sources. China's renewable energy capacity is growing faster than its fossil fuels and nuclear power capacity. China Installed over 373 GW of renewables in 2024, reaching a total installed renewable capacity of 1,878 GW by the end of the year. The country aims to have 80% of its total energy mix come from non-fossil fuel sources by 2060, and achieve a combined 1,200 GW of solar and wind capacity by 2030.