500:1 account

[Pinemarten]

I am going to close my 20:1 account and go to a new broker that has 500:1 on BTC/USD. That is a 25x advantage. Does anyone else here do leverage trades on BTC/USD?

[Bitcoin_Arena]

25x advantage?
What do you mean? I hope you are doing a 25x and not a 500x

To be honest, the lower the leverage, the better in terms of less risk. I have done leverage trading on Bitcoin, and I don't even remember the last time I went as high as 20x let alone 10x. Crypto being so volatile and wipe off your high leverage position sometime in just minutes so I hope you have very good risk management strategies.

[Pinemarten]

I don't think you did the math. I have been 'day trading' BTC/USD since Oct/2023 at 20:1 margin. I now will move to 500:1 margin. Whether I have $20k or $1k, do the math on buying power.

[SmartGold01]

25x advantage?
What do you mean? I hope you are doing a 25x and not a 500x

To be honest, the lower the leverage, the better in terms of less risk. I have done leverage trading on Bitcoin, and I don't even remember the last time I went as high as 20x let alone 10x. Crypto being so volatile and wipe off your high leverage position sometime in just minutes so I hope you have very good risk management strategies.

Maybe op has to throw more light on what he meant as I am also trying to comprehend what he mean over there. Of course 25x seems to be too higher for some who doesn't have much equity and could be liquidated then just imagine 500x how do you think he could survive the market if things happens to go the opposite?

[Bitcoin_Arena]

I don't think you did the math. I have been 'day trading' BTC/USD since Oct/2023 at 20:1 margin. I now will move to 500:1 margin. Whether I have $20k or $1k, do the math on buying power.

How successful were you for the last 2 years using the 20:1 Margin before we even talk about that 500:1 which is more like a casino thing?
Don't think you are the first trader to play the game to leverages. Yes, you could have higher buying power, but how will your performance be winrate wise?

Maybe op has to throw more light on what he meant as I am also trying to comprehend what he mean over there. Of course 25x seems to be too higher for some who doesn't have much equity and could be liquidated then just imagine 500x how do you think he could survive the market if things happens to go the opposite?

Probably trying to explore. He will learn whatever lessons he will meet along the way. We don't even have to labor telling him what could happen.

[Localhostspeed]

Maybe op has to throw more light on what he meant as I am also trying to comprehend what he mean over there. Of course 25x seems to be too higher for some who doesn't have much equity and could be liquidated then just imagine 500x how do you think he could survive the market if things happens to go the opposite?

You guys are not understanding OP.

He is saying that he is using a broker that offer him 20x of his deposit which 20:1, anything he deposit is allow to borrow 20 times of that amount but he want to close the account. He is looking for account that can give him 500x power borrowing power, so that anything he deposit can allow him borrow upto 500x.

What I don't understand about OP is why the sudden switch to 500x, that's over 500x leverage that can have him liquidated on a blink of an eye, this is more than gambling.

[Pinemarten]

25x is the difference from going from 20:1 to 500:1. I was liquidated in the last week of Feb/2025 when I kept trying to buy my way out of every dip. I lost over CA$31,000 in 3 days. Since Oct/2023 I have made over $80,000 which would have been $100,000+ without the rookie mistake I made last Feb. I agree it is easy to get 'wiped out' with margin trading in BTC/USD. The trick is to keep your order total low. With $20,000 I try to keep less than $6,000 in open orders now. Then if BTC takes a big dip I can ride it out until the NYC cavalry buys it back up. At 500:1 and $6,000 max orders, I will still have $3,000,000 in buying power. Yes, $3 million for only $6k risked. If anyone wants a link to the broker for a new account bonus, please PM me.

[shinratensei_]

I am going to close my 20:1 account and go to a new broker that has 500:1 on BTC/USD. That is a 25x advantage. Does anyone else here do leverage trades on BTC/USD?

Just because leverage is higher doesn't mean it's more advantage. Just because it's 500x instead of 20x doesn't mean you gonna profit 25x. It's more likely that you gonna get liquidated 25x higher than doing 20x leverage. Market always goes up and down on the lower timeframe. 500x more likely gonna get you liquidated before there's any meaningful price action.

25x is the difference from going from 20:1 to 500:1. I was liquidated in the last week of Feb/2025 when I kept trying to buy my way out of every dip. I lost over CA$31,000 in 3 days. Since Oct/2023 I have made over $80,000 which would have been $100,000+ without the rookie mistake I made last Feb. I agree it is easy to get 'wiped out' with margin trading in BTC/USD. The trick is to keep your order total low. With $20,000 I try to keep less than $6,000 in open orders now. Then if BTC takes a big dip I can ride it out until the NYC cavalry buys it back up. At 500:1 and $6,000 max orders, I will still have $3,000,000 in buying power. Yes, $3 million for only $6k risked. If anyone wants a link to the broker for a new account bonus, please PM me.

Gotta explain that there's more risk for that $6k margin with 500x leverage compared to 20x leverage while you're at it.

[Pinemarten]

No more risk if I keep the order count low. At 20:1 with $20,000 and only $6,000 in open orders I can easily net $100 a day. At 25x that with 500:1 it would be $2,500 a day net. Offshore accounts, so no taxes until I bring it back to Canada. In the last week of Feb/2025 I had $31,000 in my trading account and kept buying dips. I went as high as $15,000 in orders thinking the price would climb soon. Margin calls started at 50%. If I have more than 50% of $31,000 in orders then the broker automatically starts selling them to get me under 50%. Then the 'cascading margin calls' happened. A very foolish rookie mistake that I should never repeat. In order to have the same buying power of $20,000, I would only need $800 at 500:1. 20,000/25. I can afford a full $20,000 but I will still keep my limit to $6,000. I also have a $50,000 line of credit with my banks now to pump cap in if I need to.

[EarnOnVictor]

I don't think you did the math. I have been 'day trading' BTC/USD since Oct/2023 at 20:1 margin. I now will move to 500:1 margin. Whether I have $20k or $1k, do the math on buying power.

How successful were you for the last 2 years using the 20:1 Margin before we even talk about that 500:1 which is more like a casino thing?
Don't think you are the first trader to play the game to leverages. Yes, you could have higher buying power, but how will your performance be winrate wise?

I followed the conversation of you guys. You will continue to have a misunderstanding because one is looking at it from the angle of a traditional broker (@Pinemarten) and the other is looking at it from the angle of a crypto exchange (@Bitcoin_Arena). That is why @Pinemarten used a ratio in his leverage term rather than the regular "x" commonly used with exchanges.

Now, to @Bitcoin_Arena, you may not be familiar with the traditional brokerage dealings, but it's not the same with exchanges. I mostly go for the highest leverage provided by my broker, be it 1:500, 1:1000, or even 1:2000, but this doesn't mean I use all the margin permitted by the leverage. I can only imagine what @Pinemarten faced by using 1:20 leverage initially, it will be so annoying, as its purchasing power is very low. Now that he has the 1:500, he can plan his trades better with a better margin at his disposal. But this doesn't mean he will take high risks with it, he only has higher access.

[DPHOR]

Now, to @Bitcoin_Arena, you may not be familiar with the traditional brokerage dealings, but it's not the same with exchanges. I mostly go for the highest leverage provided by my broker, be it 1:500, 1:1000, or even 1:2000, but this doesn't mean I use all the margin permitted by the leverage. I can only imagine what @Pinemarten faced by using 1:20 leverage initially, it will be so annoying, as its purchasing power is very low. Now that he has the 1:500, he can plan his trades better with a better margin at his disposal. But this doesn't mean he will take high risks with it, he only has higher access.

I have actually been trying to understand what the op mean but now I see that there are two different things over there, however those who doesn't deal with the traditional system wouldn't understand it more better except for the person who has the both knowledge that would understand what the op is saying over here.

[Pinemarten]

I should simplify.

 If you want to 'day trade' BTC/USD with $1,000 then you should look for a max leverage broker. $1,000 x 500:1 means you can buy $250,000 of bitcoin orders at normal 50% margin calls: 1000 x 500 / 50 = $250,000.

[tvplus006]

...At 500:1 and $6,000 max orders, I will still have $3,000,000 in buying power. Yes, $3 million for only $6k risked.

You will have 3,000 bucks in reserve only if the price of BTC does not change. But it is enough for the price to change by only 0.2% in the opposite direction to your expectations and your balance of $9,000 will be completely liquidated.

[Pinemarten]

Here is a link to a margin calculator.

https://ba928eab26d449cf9a75642ae5b9940d.elf.site/

Set the price to 116000 and the margin to 500:1. I buy what I call 'weeny packs'. Groups of 0.01 volume, usually in 3-6. If you set the volume to 1.0 then a whole coin will cost $230, at 0.01 then 1/100 coin costs $2. With 0.01 for every $100 the coin goes up, I make CA$1.37. To make $100/day I just need 100/1.37 = ~73. 73x 0.01 to move up $100 each. If it goes up $1000 then I only need 7.3 x 0.01. $14.60 out of my $20,000 balance. To make $1,000/day I would only need $146.00.

[justdimin]

You will have 3,000 bucks in reserve only if the price of BTC does not change. But it is enough for the price to change by only 0.2% in the opposite direction to your expectations and your balance of $9,000 will be completely liquidated.

That is the biggest fear of choosing high margins. OP will use the calculators to determine the profits but will hardly think if the trade goes sideways. Even a small fluctuation will liquidate their account. I have faced this several times and am pretty sure almost everyone's accounts are liquidated at least once. This has taught us never to play with margins.

OP, if you really want to go for a 1:500 account, why not try with minimum balance first? You can give it a try to see how long can you survive. Take smaller trades with small account and multiple those numbers with the amount of balance you wish to trade in future. If you earn profits, for sure try a larger account but if not, try to stay away at least until you see any profits from such high leverage account.

[Pinemarten]

I am using the 200:1 leverage limit with crypto. 500:1 is only for Forex and metals, etc. Solana is only 1:100 because it is so volatile

Since I started trading Sep. 16, here is  my my report generated by MT4:

Gross Profit: 165.98,    Gross Loss: 0.32, Total Net Profit: 165.66
Total Trades: 124, Short Positions (won %): 18 (100.00%), Long Positions (won %): 106 (99.06%)
Profit Trades (% of total): 123 (99.19%), Loss trades (% of total): 1 (0.81%)

The only loss of $0.32 was a typo on a take profit setting. I got a long mixed up with a short.

Bitcoin price has been very unpredictable and flat this week because of the FED print on the 17th. The expected  'pump and dump' was already factored in by most traders. I was going short on the ups and long on the downs, 'hedging'. NYC dumped more than usual on Friday, so I bought like a demon. Next week I should make more money as the the price goes back to its normal daily volatility. NYC at 8am local and Asia at 9am local. Asia closes while Europe is still open and NYC opens while Europe is still open. Asia is the 1st to open each day and week, and NYC is the last. Europe is stuck with the price Asia gave it and has to think of what price to give to NYC. Asia looks at what NYC left it and decides what to do. I could start keeping track of the closing price in each time zone and see if that helps. Mostly I just watch the price moves in the 1st few minutes of each market open. Europe is the one I am usually sleeping through. I am on the west coast of Canada. 5am = NYC 8am , and 5pm = Asia 9am the next day.

Here is my daily statement at Friday close:

Floating P/L: -1 039.96
Equity: 20 464.95
Margin Requirement:   578.08
Available Margin: 19 886.87
Margin Level: 3529.80%

$578.08CA @ 200:1 = $83,000US in coin. I have about 72 positions open @ 0.01 coin each. This is high for me because of my Friday frenzy buys. I normally try to keep the count at ~20-30.  MetaTrader 4 starts to slow down at 100 open orders so my actual limit will not be my $20,000 but ~ $800 which is about 100 x 0.01 @ 16500 price. If I go to 0.02 then that would be $1600 limit. I think bitcoin would need to drop to about $90,000 before I get a margin call. I doubt it would drop that fast. I could set all my 'stop loss' limits to $112,000 and that would save most of my balance. I can't see it going that low. When the price of bitcoin hits $150,000 then I may limit to only 75 open orders. That may be a reason why margin traders can't raise the price much right now.
The last ATH had a huge dip afterwards. I made almost $1,600 that week and over $4,200 for the month of August.


Since NYC sold it down more than usual for a Friday, all my positions are long from 117743 down to 115354. As I write this the price is ~115900 and climbing. My 200:1 trading server is down for scheduled maintenance, but when it is back up it should have sold about 1/2 my orders for profit. I don't want to trade my original 20:1 account because I want to close it. To fund the new account I sold $20,000 in coin from my wallet. When I close the old account I will buy coin with that $20,000. I still have too many high open trades there that may not close until the next ATH. Only 24 open trades at ~$2,000 loss. 119000 will clear most at profit.

[wozzek23]

I am going to close my 20:1 account and go to a new broker that has 500:1 on BTC/USD. That is a 25x advantage. Does anyone else here do leverage trades on BTC/USD?

Not "anyone else" but mostly all of us active in this section will do or might have done leverage trading or so called futures trading. This is pretty common nowadays due to easily accessibility of such brokers. I personally will go for 5x leverage but think even that might be riskier sometimes. Yes, we do have an option to choose 125x or maybe up to 500x but that will just increase the changes of blowing our account in no time.

Leverage trading is quite risky as your complete capital is kept as margin and is at risk. Here you can earn 10x or can get liquidated which will leave you with nothing. I would recommend you to think wisely before going for a 1:500 account. This is just increasing your risk and shows your poor risk management.

[nelson4lov]

Contrary to popular beliefs, the reason why people need more than 20x leverage for bitcoin is not far-fetched. Bitcoin is not a big asset and it doesn't pull large percentage gains for day traders and that's why they need more leverage sometimes to enable max position sizing. I'd say 20x leverage are around the range for top tokens like solana, bnb or eth but as always, high leverage doesn't always equal profitable. I've seen people that have been profitable with even 2x leverage longs/short on bitcoin as well as successful traders that uses 100x leverage to long/short bitcoin.

Earlier this year on CT, a guy shared a trade he took on BTC after FTX collapse. His entry was 16k and leverage was about 100x. He had held the position for over 3 years and counting even with that leverage size.

[Pinemarten]

Earlier this year on CT, a guy shared a trade he took on BTC after FTX collapse. His entry was 16k and leverage was about 100x. He had held the position for over 3 years and counting even with that leverage size.

If I hold for 3 years the 'swap fees' would be huge on a long. Can you link his post?

[nelson4lov]

Earlier this year on CT, a guy shared a trade he took on BTC after FTX collapse. His entry was 16k and leverage was about 100x. He had held the position for over 3 years and counting even with that leverage size.

If I hold for 3 years the 'swap fees' would be huge on a long. Can you link his post?

It's not a prop firm or a broker type account. It was a perps position on Mexc and I think on binance too. He even added a new position on another exchange when btc was @32k and that was when mexc introduced 100x longs on btc 1-2 years ago and he used it.

I'm aware of swap fees which is what makes holding positions long term on either broker or prop firm account difficult. I know a prop firm that uses bybit and there are no swap fees for overnight position.

Btw, I've forgotten his X account but it was fascinating to see something have conviction enough to max long btc for years. Some of his positions were like 18880% and he provided all proofs then.