You still think Bitcoin is uncontrollable?

[Dogedegen]

Well, yeah. But doing such a thing becomes counter-intuitive. Because printing more money will lead towards the devaluation of Fiat. This means a higher-priced Bitcoin over the long term. It'll be impossible to buy all of the circulating supply this way.

Buying all bitcoins in circulation is truly impossible but even impossible mission is done, it is not enough to control Bitcoin network this way. The Bitcoin blockchain, its network and its coin circulation are all different.

Not even buying half of Bitcoin in circulation is possible without increasing the price to a ridiculous level. Anyhow if they got 51% of all the supply, so what? They could kill Ethereum and Solana this way but not Bitcoin.

Two tools as calculators on 51% attack success probability can help understand this impossible mission better.
https://jlopp.github.io/bitcoin-confirmation-risk-calculator/
https://web.archive.org/web/20181231045818/https://people.xiph.org/~greg/attack_success.html

In Bitcoin network and mining history, there were times with very big and dominating Bitcoin mining pools that were able to do 51% attacks but they did not do it. They knew that if they did 51% attacks, they won't win any game but they will trigger a fail game for themselves.
The evolution of mining pools and miners’ behaviors in the Bitcoin blockchain.

There is absolutely no way a 51% attack is going to take place ever. People who repeat these theoretical attacks with extremely low probability of happening due to complex incentive structures within Bitcoin are those that have only basic knowledge. If they had better they would talk about better topics such as actual attacks that are taking place today.

Having Bitcoin does not give you any control over it. They can influence the market price of Bitcoin but this is because they are manipulating people. That is they are controlling people, they are not controlling Bitcoin! That is the irony of human understanding. You got this point entirely backwards, the humans are the ones that are the issue. Bitcoin is not controllable.

Exactly, having bitcoin does guarantee any one to control about bitcoin price actually many user only have few percent of bitcoin supply on their wallet, just trying to influence how to controlling the other get panic moment when bitcoin dump drastically to sell at lower price. I think ironic with many people mindset about bitcoin is uncontrollable when price suddenly decreasing due any bad decision made by government or top influence people.

We understand each other well. It is the same people who are very emotionally vulnerable that talk about these things having an impact. I for example find myself often among the last people to find out that Bitcoin crashed in fiat terms. I just don't look at all for days. It doesn't matter to me at all.

In the end it is only the people that can be fully controlled and it is those that are controlled the easiest that have an issue with admitting this truth of life.

[iBaba]

You can never control Bitcoin by printing paper money, because if you buy Bitcoin with paper money, you will have to create a lot of paper notes and buy Bitcoin with them. The more paper notes you create, the more the value of money will decrease and even if you want to, you will not be able to maintain the value of your fiat currency. Then you will face more danger, because the demand for Bitcoin is increasing day by day because large holders are holding Bitcoin.

Yes, Bitcoin can be purchased manually with paper money, but the amount of paper money that will be spent to buy it seems like a lot of money will have to be printed. Even if money is not printed, a lot of money will be spent on one side. Bitcoin can never be controlled by doing these things. Uncontrolled Bitcoin will continue like this. Thinking about buying Bitcoin with paper money will only increase inflation.

I can tell you that there is no any reasonable people that will want to convert printed money to gambling unless it is not a money that was gotten from legitimate way. I don't want to just conclude to that though because I'm aware of big businessmen in the north who do not necessarily have their money stored in the bank. Some of them have their money stacked in their vaults in cash.

If such kind of people want to buy bitcoin today, they will need to explore either of these options, either for them to take the money to the bank then transfer it to the recipient of the p2p, which is not safe. Because that could kind of raise alarm in a way or if they want to do a physical transaction it is very possible too but even more risky because both the sender and the reciever are endangered because any of them can get robbed.

[LeyMonte]

Every effort the government tends to use to control Bitcoin often backfires. Most governments are already realising this, that is why we see that they are now becoming more bitcoin friendly. What is the hate for when it has brought no benefits, instead it keeps strengthening Bitcoin?

No, there is no objection to bitcoin here but I said it in response to the OP's post. The government cannot do anything to control bitcoin. Not just the government, but no one in the world can do anything. Bitcoin will gradually become stronger and everyone will have more confidence in bitcoin.

[CodexUddin]

Since the government can print money excessively, i believe that this is enough to have power over Bitcoin.

Before you say that "me been gullible to my own thoughts" is in fully effect, take a minute to reason with me.

All I have to do if I have the power is turn on the printer, buy as much Bitcoin as I can, since I can print I will keep changing all that fiat to Bitcoin, eventually I will have a lot of Bitcoin.

Tell me how this is not a big problem? One sneeze from me on the social media will disrupt the value of Bitcoin, it means I am in control.

Am I been gullible to my own thoughts after all? Undo the blindfold then, thank you.

In my opinion if the government starts printing money and buying Bitcoin, then the excess fiat currency will cause inflation and the value of fiat will decrease. Moreover, the supply of Bitcoin in the market is limited, so the more the government buys the higher the price will be and it will not be possible to maintain control as before. The main idea of Bitcoin is decentralization that is no single organization can control the entire system.

[Abiky]

There is no way for the government to make Bitcoin centralized in these days.

It can be said they had the opportunity to do that in the early days, when bitcoin was not popular, the bitcoin network had not become too decentralized. Because at that time there were not many miners, the number of nodes was small and concentrated in one country like the US, Europe or China. But now the number of miners and nodes has increased many times and is distributed globally, the community has also become stronger. The bitcoin network has become more decentralized than ever. Therefore, trying to centralize bitcoin these days is nothing short of mission impossible.

Perhaps you're right. If nodes and miners remain geographically-distributed, it would be impossible to centralize Bitcoin. The farthest they could go is centralize the whole crypto market. Which by the way, has been accomplished so far. Centralized exchanges and "Wall Street" are the dominating force of the market. They control most of the BTC in circulation. Governments can manipulate prices to their hearts' content whenever they want to. Having a large amount of BTC in their reserves will allow them to dump it all on the market (effectively resulting in a huge dip in market prices).

Bitcoin will never go to zero, but it will lose so much of its value, that almost no one would want to invest in it. That's what I think will happen in the long run. Who knows what surprises we'll find in the future?

[Dogedegen]

If such kind of people want to buy bitcoin today, they will need to explore either of these options, either for them to take the money to the bank then transfer it to the recipient of the p2p, which is not safe. Because that could kind of raise alarm in a way or if they want to do a physical transaction it is very possible too but even more risky because both the sender and the reciever are endangered because any of them can get robbed.

Please don't use this as an argument. Business people of every level so even the smallest one tend to regularly engage in risky behavior. This is not really a valid argument for the case of them not adopting it.

No, there is no objection to bitcoin here but I said it in response to the OP's post. The government cannot do anything to control bitcoin. Not just the government, but no one in the world can do anything. Bitcoin will gradually become stronger and everyone will have more confidence in bitcoin.

What people often forget that with every day that Bitcoin survives it is stronger and harder to destroy. The probability that it will succeed beyond our wildest imagination is growing every day!

In my opinion if the government starts printing money and buying Bitcoin, then the excess fiat currency will cause inflation and the value of fiat will decrease. Moreover, the supply of Bitcoin in the market is limited, so the more the government buys the higher the price will be and it will not be possible to maintain control as before. The main idea of Bitcoin is decentralization that is no single organization can control the entire system.

This is already happening so what you are describing is nothing special. Every day they are printing money and every day it is decreasing the value of fiat. What they use the money for does not have an impact on the decrease of the value in this essence.

Perhaps you're right. If nodes and miners remain geographically-distributed, it would be impossible to centralize Bitcoin. The farthest they could go is centralize the whole crypto market. Which by the way, has been accomplished so far. Centralized exchanges and "Wall Street" are the dominating force of the market. They control most of the BTC in circulation.

This is not true yet, most of the coins are not with them. Anyway that is the expected outcome for any growing asset. What else would you have happen? That the people with the least amount of money own most of the coins? That is not possible at all.

Governments can manipulate prices to their hearts' content whenever they want to. Having a large amount of BTC in their reserves will allow them to dump it all on the market (effectively resulting in a huge dip in market prices).

This has never happened yet and no government owns that much of Bitcoin. Private entities own more.

Bitcoin will never go to zero, but it will lose so much of its value, that almost no one would want to invest in it. That's what I think will happen in the long run. Who knows what surprises we'll find in the future?

You are in a forum called Bitcointalk and you are spreading fear about Bitcoin What is wrong with you?

[Catenaccio]

There is absolutely no way a 51% attack is going to take place ever. People who repeat these theoretical attacks with extremely low probability of happening due to complex incentive structures within Bitcoin are those that have only basic knowledge. If they had better they would talk about better topics such as actual attacks that are taking place today.

Attacks in theory can be possible to do if some big mining pools have partnership and copperate with each others  for doing 51% attack on Bitcoin blockchain. The reason why they did not do it in the past when they had several chances to do attacks, is a clear consequence for Bitcoin value then the attackers is massively drop of Bitcoin blockchain security, bitcoin value then bitcoin price on the market will be dumped to very umimaginable low prices.

They knew this fact, this terrible consequence and they knew that they are not exceptions, so they see no reason to do attacks.

[Synchronice]

Since the government can print money excessively, i believe that this is enough to have power over Bitcoin.

Before you say that "me been gullible to my own thoughts" is in fully effect, take a minute to reason with me.

All I have to do if I have the power is turn on the printer, buy as much Bitcoin as I can, since I can print I will keep changing all that fiat to Bitcoin, eventually I will have a lot of Bitcoin.

Tell me how this is not a big problem? One sneeze from me on the social media will disrupt the value of Bitcoin, it means I am in control.

Am I been gullible to my own thoughts after all? Undo the blindfold then, thank you.

There is not only one government in the world that can print money and acquire all the Bitcoins, so this strategy won't work and it's also pointless because if there is a huge inflation, the purchasing value of the coin doesn't increase, the price only increases because of inflation.

Anyways, Bitcoin is not uncontrollable. It's partially controlled, partially uncontrolled at the moment. The real control will come if the governments together manage to censor miners and get unwanted transactions unconfirmed but it will be very difficult to happen worldwide because then all country has to agree with that.

The most important problem that we have with Bitcoin right now is that it can be heavily and instantly speculated by some guys.

[tabas]

While that can be done by any country but it will reflect on their economy, the rise of inflation will certainly hit them if they'd just print more fiat for them to buy more bitcoin. You've got a point that countries like El Salvador can take advantage of that situation. But the question is why they're not doing that? because the retaliation of it on them economically is going to be bad. More supply of fiat means that the money there becomes more useless. And I think that there are international bodies that are monitoring these money printing.

[Adams0001]

Every effort the government tends to use to control Bitcoin often backfires. Most governments are already realising this, that is why we see that they are now becoming more bitcoin friendly. What is the hate for when it has brought no benefits, instead it keeps strengthening Bitcoin?

No, there is no objection to bitcoin here but I said it in response to the OP's post. The government cannot do anything to control bitcoin. Not just the government, but no one in the world can do anything. Bitcoin will gradually become stronger and everyone will have more confidence in bitcoin.

Many government that don't like bitcoin have try alot on how to control bitcoin but unfortunately they didn't succeed and making illegal in there countries. Anything you can't control usually difficult for you to do anything wrong with it, because if government get access and have the power to control bitcoin he won't have too much of value anymore because he will definitely lose value and the market won't be volatile. If bitcoin can be control am sure everyone will be rich currently because everyone will wait, when they see the the price will increase everyone will just invest huge amounts so that they can get huge returns immediately the price increases. The volatile make us believe that you can't be profitable in Bitcoin if you didn't invest in long term. Bitcoin will continue growing and many people will surly believe in bitcoin and anyone that have funds will always have the interest to invest some of there funds in bitcoin.

[WhoYouCantKill]

Your thinking is a sharp one, yet this is the catch, even though government prints limitless money, it won't be able to buy up the Bitcoin. The more it busy, the higher the price will go, and sellers will reduce. The supply of Bitcoin is fixed, and it has instant reaction in its market. To add, flooding fiat weakens the value of the currency, therefore the government may just be hurting itself. Theoretically, yes, large buying can shake the market for a short-term, but complete control is almost impossible as ownership of Bitcoin is international and decentralized.

[Dogedegen]

Attacks in theory can be possible to do if some big mining pools have partnership and copperate with each others  for doing 51% attack on Bitcoin blockchain. The reason why they did not do it in the past when they had several chances to do attacks, is a clear consequence for Bitcoin value then the attackers is massively drop of Bitcoin blockchain security, bitcoin value then bitcoin price on the market will be dumped to very umimaginable low prices. They knew this fact, this terrible consequence and they knew that they are not exceptions, so they see no reason to do attacks.

You don't see your contradiction, do you? You are saying that it is possible and that in the past someone was able to do it but they didn't do it. The reason why they didn't do it is the mechanism that guarantees that this is not going to happen. A 51% attack is not an issue. You can only do it once. You won't accomplish anything. You will bankrupt your mining investments and Bitcoin will survive using another algorithm. In terms of ranking threats to Bitcoin, a 51% attack is completely irrelevant.

Anyways, Bitcoin is not uncontrollable. It's partially controlled, partially uncontrolled at the moment. The real control will come if the governments together manage to censor miners and get unwanted transactions unconfirmed but it will be very difficult to happen worldwide because then all country has to agree with that.

You can't unconfirm transactions no matter how much you disagree with them.

While that can be done by any country but it will reflect on their economy, the rise of inflation will certainly hit them if they'd just print more fiat for them to buy more bitcoin. You've got a point that countries like El Salvador can take advantage of that situation. But the question is why they're not doing that? because the retaliation of it on them economically is going to be bad. More supply of fiat means that the money there becomes more useless. And I think that there are international bodies that are monitoring these money printing.

You didn't do your research on this one, did you? El Salvador does not have its own currency and therefore it can not print fiat. They are using the USD. Don't even start with some argument how they could create their own currency, that is naive. They are not allowed to, the US would not allow that.

[NurseHub]

Every effort the government tends to use to control Bitcoin often backfires. Most governments are already realising this, that is why we see that they are now becoming more bitcoin friendly. What is the hate for when it has brought no benefits, instead it keeps strengthening Bitcoin?

No, there is no objection to bitcoin here but I said it in response to the OP's post. The government cannot do anything to control bitcoin. Not just the government, but no one in the world can do anything. Bitcoin will gradually become stronger and everyone will have more confidence in bitcoin.

I agree hat government can not  control bitcoin in terms of how it's spent, mined, and generated but can control the use of bitcoin, this fact most people always try to disagree but it's the truth, they can stop many people from using it within their territory of control  it that doesn't mean bitcoin itself will be controlled because it's far from the centralisation which government operate on.

[WeThePe0ple]

Tell me how this is not a big problem? One sneeze from me on the social media will disrupt the value of Bitcoin, it means I am in control.

You can print as much currency as you like. This will not allow you to buy the BTC that is already in someone elses coldstorage.
You can only push up the price of the small supply that is left.

In fact printing loads of currency is a great thing for those who already own BTC.

So no, currency printing by whoever holds the printer will not allow them to buy the entire market.
It's more about who got there first.

[DiMarxist]

Your thinking is a sharp one, yet this is the catch, even though government prints limitless money, it won't be able to buy up the Bitcoin. The more it busy, the higher the price will go, and sellers will reduce. The supply of Bitcoin is fixed, and it has instant reaction in its market. To add, flooding fiat weakens the value of the currency, therefore the government may just be hurting itself. Theoretically, yes, large buying can shake the market for a short-term, but complete control is almost impossible as ownership of Bitcoin is international and decentralized.

Well said and I completely agree with your reasoning. Bitcoin fixed supply truly makes it resistant to government manipulation, no matter how much fiat money they print. Once they start buying heavily, scarcity kicks in, prices soar, and fewer holders are willing to sell. Plus, as you said, flooding the market with fiat to buy Bitcoin only devalues their own currency, creating a self defeating loop.

[tabas]

While that can be done by any country but it will reflect on their economy, the rise of inflation will certainly hit them if they'd just print more fiat for them to buy more bitcoin. You've got a point that countries like El Salvador can take advantage of that situation. But the question is why they're not doing that? because the retaliation of it on them economically is going to be bad. More supply of fiat means that the money there becomes more useless. And I think that there are international bodies that are monitoring these money printing.

You didn't do your research on this one, did you? El Salvador does not have its own currency and therefore it can not print fiat. They are using the USD. Don't even start with some argument how they could create their own currency, that is naive. They are not allowed to, the US would not allow that.

What I am saying, since El Salvador has made Bitcoin as their legal tender and yes, they rely on USD. They can take advantage of the situation and do what OP has given as an example. I've only given as an example and what with counties does now is for their own sake, you'll never know what might happen for each of them do in able to survive economically.

[Fara Chan]

<<<

In my opinion if the government starts printing money and buying Bitcoin, then the excess fiat currency will cause inflation and the value of fiat will decrease. Moreover, the supply of Bitcoin in the market is limited, so the more the government buys the higher the price will be and it will not be possible to maintain control as before. The main idea of Bitcoin is decentralization that is no single organization can control the entire system.

Even if governments don't buy Bitcoin, the value of fiat currencies will never remain stable and their value will continue to be eroded by inflation because ordinary citizens will never know when the government will print new money and bring it into the market. I prefer that all countries and important parties within them buy Bitcoin and hold it for the long term, so that the price of Bitcoin can reach a much higher level than it is now. This will certainly surprise everyone when they see the price of Bitcoin soaring, and they never imagined its value would reach such a high level.

[Hazink]

No, there is no objection to bitcoin here but I said it in response to the OP's post. The government cannot do anything to control bitcoin. Not just the government, but no one in the world can do anything. Bitcoin will gradually become stronger and everyone will have more confidence in bitcoin.

Governments won't be able to control Bitcoin on their own. I mean they don't have the access to detect what is will happen on the network, but they have the workforce to manipulate the market, and then again, you don't have to say no one can be able to control Bitcoin,

If everyone who runs Bitcoin nodes can be convinced to agree on one thing, and they decide to implement it, they could cause a measure change in the network which could alter how Bitcoin is seen, and if the core team releases an upgrade which permits censorship, is that not control? I know the chances of all those happening are slim, but you don't have to say it as if it couldn't happen.

[Synchronice]

Anyways, Bitcoin is not uncontrollable. It's partially controlled, partially uncontrolled at the moment. The real control will come if the governments together manage to censor miners and get unwanted transactions unconfirmed but it will be very difficult to happen worldwide because then all country has to agree with that.

You can't unconfirm transactions no matter how much you disagree with them.

Sorry, I meant that if they censor miners, then they'll be able to filter incoming transactions and only approve those that they want to get confirmed and block those that they have blacklisted.

What I am saying, since El Salvador has made Bitcoin as their legal tender and yes, they rely on USD. They can take advantage of the situation and do what OP has given as an example. I've only given as an example and what with counties does now is for their own sake, you'll never know what might happen for each of them do in able to survive economically.

How can they take the advantage of the situation that OP has given as an example? They use USD, which is printed by the United States.
Also, I want to say that you can't just print your money and buy lots of Bitcoins. Bitcoin's value is determined in USD and when your country prints lots of money, their exchange rate against USD decreases because of inflation. Money can't be made out of thin air, someone has to pay the debt and when country prints lots of money, their citizens pay the debt, which might cause lots of political issues inside the country if the government prints excessively high amount of money. Also, no other country wants your inflated national currency.

[Taskford]

No, there is no objection to bitcoin here but I said it in response to the OP's post. The government cannot do anything to control bitcoin. Not just the government, but no one in the world can do anything. Bitcoin will gradually become stronger and everyone will have more confidence in bitcoin.

Governments won't be able to control Bitcoin on their own. I mean they don't have the access to detect what is happening on the network, but they have the workforce to manipulate the market, and then again, you don't have to say no one can be able to control Bitcoin, 

If everyone who runs Bitcoin nodes can be convinced to agree on one thing, and they decide to implement it, they could cause a measure change in the network which could alter how Bitcoin is seen, and if the core team releases an upgrade which permits censorship, is that not control? I know the chances of all those happening are slim, but you don't have to say it as if it couldn't happen.

Yeah maybe they cannot control the network, but they can control those institutions and platform that accepts BTC on their country.

That's why we have this KYC since they want to control or limiting its anonymity. They want to know the transactions of people and also with that they can manipulate the sentiments of people.

We have seen so many times that this politicians made a circus which affect the price of Bitcoin.