Would Satoshi Still Be Proud?

[Cyber_warrior]

Back then it was all about freedom, no banks, no government, just pure peer-to-peer money. But now it’s kinda different. Everything’s about KYC, taxes, regulations, and most people don’t even hold their own keys anymore, they just leave it on exchanges. Yeah sure, Bitcoin’s big now, worth a lot, everyone knows it… but that original “decentralized” spirit feels like it’s slowly dying. So if Satoshi saw all this today, maybe he’d smile a bit but also shake his head thinking, this isn’t what I wanted.

Bitcoin have been in existence since 2009, and up-till today bitcoin price keeps on growing, government have tried killing bitcoin, but they finding it impossible, bitcoin awareness keeps on spreading, I feel that alone is enough for satoshi to be proud.

Bitcoin primary aim was to serve as alternative currency, I will say bitcoin is still serving its purpose, actually most people are investing in bitcoin just to make profit, which is also part of bitcoin purpose. As we can see some people are already making transactions with bitcoin, you can now find different stores accepting bitcoin as payment method, so I will say bitcoin is already serving it’s purpose, just that few people are making use of bitcoin for transaction, and we don’t expect everyone to start making transaction with bitcoin, it’s going to be a gradual process, so bitcoin is still serving it’s purpose.

[ertil]

You don't need to do kyc or AML checks to use bitcoin.  Only if you want to convert your bitcoin to fiat using a centralized exchange or a bank

In the same way, you can say, that something works "everywhere except Windows and UEFI".

In general, if people won't be able to convert coins back and forth between fiat, and other currencies, then the whole coin will have a value comparable to testnet.

Also, using Bitcoin under KYC/AML is just like using Signet, where mining is centrally controlled: who cares, that you can do everything "inside" the system, if "edges" are the weakest link? The same is true with Tor, where you can be anonymous only when you are connected to onion sites. Edges are important, because this is what connects Bitcoin with the outside world. If that connection will be blocked, or heavily restricted, then 1 BTC could be worth millions, but taxes and fines can make it hard to legally use it (for example, where you will have an option to lose your anonymity, and pay 19% taxes, or to keep it, and risk 75% taxes, when someone will find you).

And then, if all of your neighbours went through KYC/AML, and you are the only non-KYCed person in a given transaction, then you can be easily detected. Which means, that you can have things as private, as in Monero, but it doesn't matter, if only your view key is hidden, or if all other keys are weak.

[Cookdata]

Sometimes I just think, if Satoshi Nakamoto is still around somewhere, watching how things went, would he even be happy with what Bitcoin has become?

Back then it was all about freedom, no banks, no government, just pure peer-to-peer money. But now it’s kinda different. Everything’s about KYC, taxes, regulations, and most people don’t even hold their own keys anymore, they just leave it on exchanges. Yeah sure, Bitcoin’s big now, worth a lot, everyone knows it… but that original “decentralized” spirit feels like it’s slowly dying. So if Satoshi saw all this today, maybe he’d smile a bit but also shake his head thinking, this isn’t what I wanted.

What makes you think that if Satoshi is alive it was going to make another difference? Let me tell you what is likely going to happen, Satoshi will be look for and maybe arrested to be force to make Bitcoin more controlling, so we might not really get what we wanted. Him going off the grid completely was the best thing that has happened to Bitcoin and that's the privilege many of us are  enjoying today, you can't make use of this kind of tech without giving him his credit.

If Satoshi was to be active, we ar going to have more people that are going to be sucking his balls because they might want to be the cool people than it would have been better. Just so you know, whether he around or not, the government will still implement KYC fully because its what they do, you can't use finance without KYC under he watch of the government, this isn't about government control it's about compliance with the financial regulators.

[Maslate]

I guess he saw this coming already. And that the government will never allow a totally decentralized asset gets ahead with a centralized one, and since bitcoin is inevitable, the government may accept it but with strict rules and regulations, and that’s exactly what’s happening now. However, despite of that, bitcoin is still untouchable, and just continue to impress the crowd. And with this, Satoshi must be proud of. It might not be exactly what he aims for bitcoin, but he knows bitcoin continue to work in process and in progress.

[Mpamaegbu]

Sometimes I just think, if Satoshi Nakamoto is still around somewhere, watching how things went, would he even be happy with what Bitcoin has become?

Back then it was all about freedom, no banks, no government, just pure peer-to-peer money. But now it’s kinda different. Everything’s about KYC, taxes, regulations, and most people don’t even hold their own keys anymore, they just leave it on exchanges.

Also add the "asset" part of Bitcoin. That's even why most people hodl it now. I'm not sure Satoshi imagined that Bitcoin would be seen as a speculative tool rather than a payment option.

Yeah exchanges doesn’t really promote decentralized but I think they actually made it a lot more easy and usable for people, like they drew Bitcoin more closer to people and that’s innovation for me.

You're right. Sometimes when I rue why I didn't know about Bitcoin early enough like a year or two when it was created, I console myself that I could've been one of those who lost their Private Keys too. Presence of exchanges helped a lot of people keep theirs as all they need do is just remember the exchange they have their Bitcoin and then the email address used if they forgot their password. With noncustodial wallet, that opportunity isn't available. So, when people badmouth Cexs, they should remember this an an advantage.

[Miles2006]

Do you expect bitcoin to stay in one position only without another alternative, op asked a really nice question probably if bitcoin stayed decentralized till date do you think the value will still increase? So many curious questions to ask yet you just have to embrace bitcoin current purpose because bitcoin value still remains not minding several times people tried to talk negative about bitcoin. Asking if Satoshi is still proud about bitcoin is difficult to answer and you’ll never get the answer, from my perspective the purpose why bitcoin was created is not same as the first time viewing how the government wants to get involve, not just the government rather creating a regulation means as mentioned but, what I don’t get is bitcoin being treated as an investment (asset) I think Satoshi never had this in mind.

[Vaculin]

You don't need to do kyc or AML checks to use bitcoin.  Only if you want to convert your bitcoin to fiat using a centralized exchange or a bank

Bitcoin made life a lot easier for people in developed countries  I know because I live in Brazil

Nowadays anyone can buy bitcoin and send money basically for free anywhere in the world . Anyone can easily buy bitcoin and have some protecting against inflation. Life wasn't so easy 15 years ago, before bitcoin adoption. Now there is a decent adoption of bitcoin in the economy already.

That’s correct-  there’s no KYC if it’s only on-chain transactions. However, let’s be honest, Bitcoin is still very reliant on fiat since it’s not widely accepted around the world. For countries with high remittance fees, Bitcoin can definitely help, but at the end of the day, we still need to convert it to fiat to be able to spend it. So we can’t completely avoid KYC, and that’s the main point I’m trying to make.

Also add the "asset" part of Bitcoin. That's even why most people hodl it now. I'm not sure Satoshi imagined that Bitcoin would be seen as a speculative tool rather than a payment option.

“Asset” is just the government’s definition because they impose a tax called capital gains, which only applies to the sale of assets. But in reality, Bitcoin was meant for payment purposes. However, I’m sure they’re aware of its speculative value since it has a fixed supply. It follows a simple principle, when demand is high and supply is low, the price increases. That perfectly describes Bitcoin, given its limited supply.

[X-ray]

Doesn't matter what we think satoshi might think at the end of the day we aren't satoshi so we don't really know what he's thinking.

What I know is that satoshi made bitcoin to be truly decentralized, no single entity can control it, whatever comes after it will also be part of the decentralized nature of bitcoin.

Institutional is free to buy as well as individual, it's a blockchain for everyone after all. The current regulation and big player participation is just unavoidable future for an asset that grow very big.

[tottong]

Back then it was all about freedom, no banks, no government, just pure peer-to-peer money. But now it’s kinda different. Everything’s about KYC, taxes, regulations, and most people don’t even hold their own keys anymore, they just leave it on exchanges. Yeah sure, Bitcoin’s big now, worth a lot, everyone knows it… but that original “decentralized” spirit feels like it’s slowly dying. So if Satoshi saw all this today, maybe he’d smile a bit but also shake his head thinking, this isn’t what I wanted.

It's not Bitcoin's fault or failure in its pursuit of freedom, as it relates to its creator's concept, but rather the fault of its users when they store their assets on exchanges.
There are exchanges that don't require KYC and might work, or perhaps we have wallets that can in general safely store bitcoin without requiring KYC. So how does one use that? Perhaps both of these issues still seem aligned with the vision for which Bitcoin was created.

The difficulty lies in regulation, as perhaps every government sees this as a bridge to taxation from exchange revenues, as well as decentralization which we consider a freedom that is increasingly difficult to achieve.

[348Judah]

Satoshi success today where er he might have been is to see bitcoin continue in serving its purpose and people are more interested in learning about it, sharing ideas and making use of it after the adoption in other to encourage others as well.

We should not be more worried about who Satoshi might really be, only if we can imagine on someone who only creates bitcoin for our use and privacy will now not also maintain the integrity of his own privacy, how possible, we should start to be thinking more about how we can also take part in some of these opportunities and not making unnecessary discussions that talks more about Satoshi when bitcoin is all we need.

[Mpamaegbu]

~snipped~

“Asset” is just the government’s definition because they impose a tax called capital gains, which only applies to the sale of assets. But in reality, Bitcoin was meant for payment purposes. However, I’m sure they’re aware of its speculative value since it has a fixed supply. It follows a simple principle, when demand is high and supply is low, the price increases. That perfectly describes Bitcoin, given its limited supply.

It's not even government who bestowed that "asset" thing on Bitcoin. It was there shortly after transactions began on the chain. It's a ripple effect of "hodl". It started when people realized they could "hodl" and profit from an artificial scarcity that it could create. It soon became more of a speculative tool than the necessary P2P it was intended for. So, it wasn't government.

By the way, Bitcoin didn't achieve this price level because of its max supply. Nah! There are coins with less max supply than Bitcoin but with far less price. Bitcoin got to this point because of its firm strong community base. Community is everything in this space.

[Rustam Meraj]

It is very deep question that best shows the fight between first idea of Bitcoin as freedom and its present state as large financial tool. Satoshi Nakamoto would have been unsure, smiling that Bitcoin survived and it became big part of world, proving that money free of governments is needed. But he would be angry that too many now rely too much on big exchanges not seeing fact that you are meant to keep your own keys, and that all new rules and KYC are making original peer to peer freedom to be lost. Success of Bitcoin has forced it to operate within system it was meant to avoid, and even though technology remains spread out, most individuals use it in centralized way, posing question of whether better tools and education will ever bring back user to original goal of having control over their money.

[m2017]

Sometimes I just think, if Satoshi Nakamoto is still around somewhere, watching how things went, would he even be happy with what Bitcoin has become?

If my "creation" were used in a manner completely opposite to what I "bequeathed," it certainly wouldn't make me happy.

Based on the purpose of bitcoin, what's written in the WP, and how this electronic digital money is used, I imagine Satoshi would be dissatisfied.

Back then it was all about freedom, no banks, no government, just pure peer-to-peer money. But now it’s kinda different. Everything’s about KYC, taxes, regulations, and most people don’t even hold their own keys anymore, they just leave it on exchanges. Yeah sure, Bitcoin’s big now, worth a lot, everyone knows it… but that original “decentralized” spirit feels like it’s slowly dying. So if Satoshi saw all this today, maybe he’d smile a bit but also shake his head thinking, this isn’t what I wanted.

You put it mildly. I imagine he wouldn't have smiled at what he saw (what's happening with bitcoin) and would have simply been upset by the current situation.

Bitcoin at its inception and Bitcoin today are like 2 completely different assets (in terms of application). While at 1st it were decentralized digital money, now it a centralized speculative asset. The reason for this, as you noted, is exchanges, KYC, regulation, and so on.

I seriously doubt bitcoin will be able to return to its original purpose.

Bitcoin is like "atomic energy", which can be used for good, for the sake of humanity, or for destruction. It seems to me that we're slowly moving toward the 2nd scenario (regulation, KYC, centralization, blockchain-based CBDC - Does that sound like digital freedom?).

[DanWalker]

Doesn't matter what we think satoshi might think at the end of the day we aren't satoshi so we don't really know what he's thinking.

Furthermore, even if we know what Satoshi thinks and wants, would we do what he wants? I bet we won't do what he says and wants either. We will still use bitcoin according to our instincts and thoughts, in a way that benefits us. Therefore, trying to guess what Satoshi would think about Bitcoin today if he were still alive is pointless, because we will still use Bitcoin in our own way.

Frankly, none of us care about Satoshi's thoughts and feelings, we only care about ourselves and our pockets.

[Z-tight]

How many times do we have to talk about this same thing. BTC is still a p2p electronic cash, it is up to you to use it that way. I always say, your keys, your coins, so you cannot tell people how to use their keys and how they use it does not change what BTC is. Because someone stores their BTC in a centralized exchange does not mean BTC is centralized, it is as simple as that.

However, why are you worried about what Satoshi thinks or would have thought, all of that isn't necessary. Even if Satoshi was still around, he wouldn't have fought the government and prevented regulations, it was always bound to happen. Neither would he have stopped adoption from countries or institutional investors, because what he created is censorship resistant. So what are you really complaining about here?

[tabas]

Sometimes I just think, if Satoshi Nakamoto is still around somewhere, watching how things went, would he even be happy with what Bitcoin has become?

Back then it was all about freedom, no banks, no government, just pure peer-to-peer money. But now it’s kinda different. Everything’s about KYC, taxes, regulations, and most people don’t even hold their own keys anymore, they just leave it on exchanges. Yeah sure, Bitcoin’s big now, worth a lot, everyone knows it… but that original “decentralized” spirit feels like it’s slowly dying. So if Satoshi saw all this today, maybe he’d smile a bit but also shake his head thinking, this isn’t what I wanted.

We will never know but I guess from someone who's invented another financial system that's now being used globally, he'd be proud of what he has made. While he might not like the intervention of the government but it's possible that's what he wants to happen as well. From having nothing in value through the adoption of the people and now, with the governments. It means that it's a valuable creation and that's why the government never touches anything that doesn't have any value at all.

[nemesis_incarnate]

Furthermore, even if we know what Satoshi thinks and wants, would we do what he wants? I bet we won't do what he says and wants either. We will still use bitcoin according to our instincts and thoughts, in a way that benefits us. Therefore, trying to guess what Satoshi would think about Bitcoin today if he were still alive is pointless, because we will still use Bitcoin in our own way.

Frankly, none of us care about Satoshi's thoughts and feelings, we only care about ourselves and our pockets.

Yep, everybody thinks for themselves in that regard.

And that's good we don't just blindly follow Satoshi, or his vision, or what he would want - we do everything looking at it from different standpoints, it's the right way.

[GeorgeJohn]

Sometimes I just think, if Satoshi Nakamoto is still around somewhere, watching how things went, would he even be happy with what Bitcoin has become?

Satoshi Nakamoto is not dead, he is somewhere observing what's happening in Bitcoin....For me if time is not taken, I would have say Satoshi Nakamoto is still in Bitcointalk and watch what is happening here also...

Satoshi will be happy to Bitcoin, because what he created have gain dominance...if you were Satoshi, won't you be excited for what you have created gaining dominance across the world, it's obvious that you will be happy, maybe Satoshi never knew that bitcoin will be fast in growing but he knew that his currency been bitcoin will be spread and accepted across the world.

[Satofan44]

Yeah sure, Bitcoin’s big now, worth a lot, everyone knows it… but that original “decentralized” spirit feels like it’s slowly dying.

Nonsense. Your observations about the situation are completely flawed. Bitcoin was initially mostly adopted by tech-savvy people and other people who resonated with the cypherpunk ideals. This was a very small amount of people. These days there are millions of people that are involved in Bitcoin to different extent. You want to blame Bitcoin and say that it is somehow negatively impacted by this? Instead you should be blaming yourself, your family and other people you know for being average NPCs that don't value decentralization. Put the responsibility where it is, the humans are to blame.

Bitcoin will always be what it is. None of this has any impact on the essence of Bitcoin. Meanwhile, actually the number of people who have strong decentralization ideals in their spirit is much greater than the total number of users that Bitcoin had in the early days.

Satoshi Nakamoto is not dead, he is somewhere observing what's happening in Bitcoin....For me if time is not taken, I would have say Satoshi Nakamoto is still in Bitcointalk and watch what is happening here also...

You do not know that, don't declare things that you have no proof of.

[FortuneFollower]

Sometimes I just think, if Satoshi Nakamoto is still around somewhere, watching how things went, would he even be happy with what Bitcoin has become?

Satoshi Nakamoto is not dead, he is somewhere observing what's happening in Bitcoin....For me if time is not taken, I would have say Satoshi Nakamoto is still in Bitcointalk and watch what is happening here also...

Satoshi will be happy to Bitcoin, because what he created have gain dominance...if you were Satoshi, won't you be excited for what you have created gaining dominance across the world, it's obvious that you will be happy, maybe Satoshi never knew that bitcoin will be fast in growing but he knew that his currency been bitcoin will be spread and accepted across the world.

We can't say what's up with Satoshi with certainty, I sure do hope he is well and is getting a time of his life anywhere he is, but we may never know about his real state.