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Author Topic: BIP ?: Reduced Data Temporary Softfork  (Read 638 times)
BlackHatCoiner
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November 05, 2025, 06:24:06 PM
 #21

If it breaks scripts by design, can it really be called a soft fork?
Softfork is invaliding some of what is currently valid. For example, invalidating any transaction that contains OP_RETURN after block 1,000,000 is a softfork, because it breaks all the wallet software that makes uses of OP_RETURN. But it also breaks all theoretical scripts that can be used to solutions that haven't been penned yet. Samourai Wallet used OP_RETURN in whirlpool coinjoin transactions long after it was only used for including arbitrary data.

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d5000
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November 05, 2025, 08:19:18 PM
 #22

Meanwhile, back in 2018, researchers who recognized the potential danger of arbitrary data in transactions have proposed the solution that includes "text detector to identify transactions carrying text or ASCII-based files and (ii) a known-file detector to identify binary files such as images or archives". They also highlited the importance of " mandatory minimum transaction fees to make content insertion economically infeasible".
Apart from the issues already mentioned by ABCbits, I'd add the following problems:

- a text/image detector can only identify codecs that already exist, and here we are again with the cat and mouse games ... the spammers are always faster.
- mandatory minimum fees: We have seen in the Ordinals wave that in the situation of such a "fad", spammers will be willing to pay very high fees (thousands of dollars in some cases, hundreds in many ...). The fees would thus have to be prohibitively high (higher than in the Ordinals wave fee top), so they practically would make Bitcoin unaffordable for all uses with exception of high value transactions.

By the way, @gmaxwell thanks for your explanation, while I think old P2PK outputs would then not be in danger, a lot of protocols would indeed.

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stwenhao
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November 05, 2025, 09:20:33 PM
Merited by pooya87 (4), d5000 (3), vapourminer (2)
 #23

Quote
If it breaks scripts by design, can it really be called a soft fork?
Each and every soft-fork breaks something "by design". It is always about making something invalid tomorrow, which is valid today. Before Taproot, all scripts in the form of "OP_1 <32 bytes>" were valid, as long as these 32 bytes were non-zero. Now, they no longer are, and you need a valid Schnorr signature, or a valid TapScript.

The main problem with this specific soft-fork, is that it can invalidate transactions, which were standard for years (for example 2-of-3 bare multisig). Usually, marking transactions as non-standard, and dropping them, is needed, to discourage usage of things, which could be invalidated by a future soft-forks. But if some mining pools will lift more and more rules, then next soft-forks will be more confiscatory, than they were; or they wouldn't happen at all, if their creators wouldn't know, how to make it properly, without breaking some presigned transactions.

Also, soft-forks can go very far, and it is known since at least 2016, if not earlier: https://petertodd.org/2016/forced-soft-forks#radical-changes

Proof of Work puzzle in mainnet, testnet4 and signet.
gmaxwell
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November 06, 2025, 07:09:27 AM
Last edit: November 06, 2025, 07:22:50 AM by gmaxwell
Merited by vapourminer (4), pooya87 (4), d5000 (3), stwenhao (1), Satofan44 (1)
 #24

You can use one definition of a softfork that is literally just "a strict tightening of the rules"-- and under that umbrella all sorts of things are "possible" like confiscating everyone's coins.

But that kind of free wheeling anything goes softfork is not something the network has ever accepted, and I expect would never accept.  What has been accepted is a much narrower kind of softfork,  but one we don't have a clear name or conscious definition of.

One element I think that backs every prior softfork and every one that ever will be successful is that it won't have a meaningful risk of confiscating anyone's coins, or at least anyone who wasn't doing something weird and stupid that could easily have been predicted to cause coin loss.  (Bitcoin isn't your mommy and if you want to fire bullets at your feet that's your own decision-- the networks obligation to save you from the reasonable and expected consequences of your bad choices is not significant.)

So, for example, most prior softforks (after Satoshi at least) have used explicit forward-compatibility mechanisms such as future tx-version numbers, segwit version numbers, or NOP-codes.   Now some maniac could have been using those do-nothing fields and caused themselves funds loss when they later got used as intended, but if they were it was an error and for no purpose except perhaps intentionally screwing things up.  For tapscript OP_SUCCESS makes it even harder for any prospective maniacs since any premature use of the forward compat renders the entire script insecure.

There are probably a dozen other such criteria that all existing softfork fits and that any successful one would need to meet... they're not part of a definition of "soft fork" and no one has written them all down or given a name to the class yet but that doesn't prevent them from being requirements and doesn't prevent them from making "but softforks could do almost anything" a useless argument as a prediction about what the network might actually do in the future.

Failing to acknowledge that is kind of like saying bitcoin could be expected to hardfork lots because a hardfork is a rule change, and given that Bitcoin has adopted many softforks (which are also rule changes) it can be expected to make other rule changes like hardforks.  It's a false equivalence that comes from being overly general.

ABCbits (OP)
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November 17, 2025, 09:47:17 AM
 #25

Author of BIP announced he made few changes 4 days ago[1]. The general specification isn't changed that much though.

Specification

Blocks with a height from 934864 until and including 987424 are checked with these additional rules:

    1. New output scriptPubKeys exceeding 34 bytes are invalid, unless the first opcode is OP_RETURN, in which case up to 83 bytes are valid.
    2. OP_PUSHDATA* with payloads larger than 256 bytes are invalid, except for the redeemScript push in BIP16 scriptSigs.
    3. Spending undefined witness (or Tapleaf) versions (ie, not Witness v0/BIP 141, Taproot/BIP 341, or P2A) is invalid. (Creating outputs with undefined witness versions is still valid.)
    4. Witness stacks with a Taproot annex are invalid.
    5. Taproot control blocks larger than 257 bytes (a merkle tree with 128 script leaves) are invalid.
    6. Tapscripts including OP_SUCCESS* opcodes anywhere (even unexecuted) are invalid.
    7. Tapscripts executing the OP_IF or OP_NOTIF instruction (regardless of result) are invalid.

Inputs spending UTXOs that were created before the activation height are exempt from the new rules. Once the softfork expires, UTXOs of all heights are once again unrestricted.

[1] https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/pull/2017#issuecomment-3524711494

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.Duelbits PREDICT..
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.WHERE EVERYTHING IS A MARKET..
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Will Bitcoin hit $200,000
before January 1st 2027?

    No @1.15         Yes @6.00    
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Greg Tonoski
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November 21, 2025, 08:11:12 PM
Last edit: November 22, 2025, 10:02:12 AM by Greg Tonoski
 #26

There is the website short URL to the Bitcoin Improvement Proposal BIP-444: "https://bip444.github.io".
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