Congratulations, KYC Is Now a Vibe Check

[Pmalek]

It’s somehow rampant with CEXs though.. Went through same not too long  ~ but not actually news paper. Couldn’t let the money go just like that.. can’t mention the CEx either but any of them can actually do it anytime they want.
  had to chop it.. but that’s one out of many

It may sound weird calling certain KYC requirements normal or standard, but from what I can see on that chopped screenshot of yours, it looks pretty standard to me. I guess they asked you to hold your ID together with a piece of paper with a date and perhaps name of the exchange written on it. I have heard that many times. It's pretty standard. Buying newspapers and standing in front of address signs isn't. Since when is a scan of a recent utility bin not enough to prove your address, for example.

[acroman08]

This is scary as fuck, just imagining the possibility of where it could be used is unsettling. Just a few years back, there were people getting scammed because of AI voice mimicking the loved ones of the people they were trying to scam, but now they can add a video to make it more realistic. AI technology is advancing too fast, and people are not prepared for it.

[promise444c5]

[..]

It may sound weird calling certain KYC requirements normal or standard, but from what I can see on that chopped screenshot of yours, it looks pretty standard to me.

Yeah until you see other requests..like I mentioned, that was just one out of many and it was kinda ridiculous because I have my account verified already(as in all necessary  verification). They didn’t give a reasonable explanation but the funds was actually from my self-custody wallet.

I guess they asked you to hold your ID together with a piece of paper with a date and perhaps name of the exchange written on it. I have heard that many times. It's pretty standard. Buying newspapers and standing in front of address signs isn't

Yeah similar sh*ts I can’t mention..

Since when is a scan of a recent utility bin bill not enough to prove your address, for example.

Most don’t even accept this for verification anymore but could request it if you’re opt into similar “extra” verifications.

[X-ray]

This is scary as fuck, just imagining the possibility of where it could be used is unsettling. Just a few years back, there were people getting scammed because of AI voice mimicking the loved ones of the people they were trying to scam, but now they can add a video to make it more realistic. AI technology is advancing too fast, and people are not prepared for it.

Can imagine a random person impersonating someone and even using real time AI to change their face to scam elderly in the future and forging the ID from that KYC data being sold illegally.

The security relating to KYC data being held by some third party really need stricter measure to make sure the data isn't leaking. It's a dystopian world now and only proper regulation can save it.

[tread93]

https://x.com/venturetwins/status/2011285029541077033

Now that AI is capable enough to accurately mimic anyone if you have a camera, a laptop and an Internet connection, how reliable are current Know Your Customer measures? They aren't. So let's give some feedback to the exchange companies: What's the next measure for the exchange to reliably verify your identity? Go vote.

It's as if Know Your Customer is still put in place, not to prevent money laundering, but to push everyone to voluntarily hand over their bitcoin activity to the government. I know, a wild conspiracy theory that I read on X.

Yes KYC is a vibe check to verify accuracy and that who you're interacting with a real person and not just some bot. I feel like next phase will definitely be some kind of digital id or something that will be used eventally by everyone. The thing is that digital ID is scary when you talk about it from a religious standpoint this all points back to the mark of the beast. Also for the love of God I know someone can help me get past the "666" merit that is coming up on my next single merrit issued to me . It would be really nice if someone diid something to help me out with that.

[davis196]

https://x.com/venturetwins/status/2011285029541077033

Now that AI is capable enough to accurately mimic anyone if you have a camera, a laptop and an Internet connection, how reliable are current Know Your Customer measures? They aren't. So let's give some feedback to the exchange companies: What's the next measure for the exchange to reliably verify your identity? Go vote.

It's as if Know Your Customer is still put in place, not to prevent money laundering, but to push everyone to voluntarily hand over their bitcoin activity to the government. I know, a wild conspiracy theory that I read on X.

The next form of KYC would be having a videocall with a customer support representative of the crypto exchange. I know that this can be faked with AI as well, but the customer support representative should be smart enough to distinguish fake AI videos from an actual person behind the camera. The big advantage of this method is the video can't be pre-recorded and the customer support rep can tell you to do certain things in front of your camera. I doubt that any AI is advanced enough to handle such type of verification, but AI improves every day and we don't know what would happen if AGI becomes a thing.

[Hanadawa]

The next form of KYC would be having a videocall with a customer support representative of the crypto exchange. I know that this can be faked with AI as well, but the customer support representative should be smart enough to distinguish fake AI videos from an actual person behind the camera. The big advantage of this method is the video can't be pre-recorded and the customer support rep can tell you to do certain things in front of your camera. I doubt that any AI is advanced enough to handle such type of verification, but AI improves every day and we don't know what would happen if AGI becomes a thing.

Perhaps in the future, customer service representatives will be trained to distinguish between AI and real people. While AI technology will become more sophisticated and be able to create realistic-looking video calls, it's possible that every KYC service exchange will have customer service representatives who are also experts in AI-based video analysis. AI will become even more sophisticated in the future, but unfortunately, people still struggle to adapt quickly. I have no doubts about trusted KYC services with strict procedures. However, I worry about fraudsters using AI technology to hijack our accounts by exploiting loopholes for human error. It would be very dangerous if our National Identification Number and the data on our ID cards  were exposed. I've done KYC on several websites in the past, and now I realize that KYC must be done carefully and that we must be sensitive with our personal data.

[Smartprofit]

I would give the following advice to cryptocurrency exchanges (I realize this sounds very naive in the current climate): you are commercial companies, not government agents. You should be focused on building business processes and generating profit, not spying on users. People trading cryptocurrency are your clients, and they generate your profits. If you are a commercial organization, you don't need to assume the functions of law enforcement. Law enforcement agencies should do their job better and catch criminals themselves. 🙋

In other words, I am against procedures such as KYC and AML. In my opinion, they violate such a fundamental legal principle as the presumption of innocence. No one can be found guilty except by a court decision. A suspect does not have to prove their innocence. On the contrary, the suspect's guilt must be proven by the investigative authorities. KYC and AML procedures completely devalue this fundamental legal principle.  🤷

So, if modern technology makes KYC procedures pointless, I'm only too happy about it. I don't see the need to advise governments on how to more effectively monitor their citizens. I don't want to be "the devil's advocate".🙅

[Satofan44]

It may sound weird calling certain KYC requirements normal or standard, but from what I can see on that chopped screenshot of yours, it looks pretty standard to me.

The appropriate way to label it would be common or standard since those tend to go along, but to call it normal is not correct. Things that are not normal can be temporarily common for whatever reason, KYC is a cancer that must be abolished.

I guess they asked you to hold your ID together with a piece of paper with a date and perhaps name of the exchange written on it. I have heard that many times. It's pretty standard. Buying newspapers and standing in front of address signs isn't. Since when is a scan of a recent utility bin not enough to prove your address, for example.

That is the thing, it was never real proof of anything to begin with -- it is trivially faked. You can create any utility bin yourself, or better if you have the PDF of a real utility bill that is used in some place then you can edit that more accurately with even less time investment. The whole thing was a joke and in most cases could be easily gamed, it is just that most users are honest and wouldn't game it anyway. It never served any purpose to begin with at all. To make things worse, with AI neither video verification is good enough in most cases at all -- these things are completely pointless. You can create a fake ID, fake utility bill and a fake person on a video and register someone who doesn't even exist. This is not theoretical theatrics as it would be from a regular respondent, I check these things regularly as part of my work. It does work if done properly. The hardest part for the average user may be hijacking the video feed of phone camera if the service in question only allows video verification on the phone.

Yeah until you see other requests..like I mentioned, that was just one out of many and it was kinda ridiculous because I have my account verified already(as in all necessary  verification). They didn’t give a reasonable explanation but the funds was actually from my self-custody wallet.

Since when is a scan of a recent utility bin bill not enough to prove your address, for example.

Most don’t even accept this for verification anymore but could request it if you’re opt into similar “extra” verifications.

As things continue to get regularly and more easily bypassed you are going to see more and more ridiculous asks when it comes to verification. The problem is that the services have to do it, they are not given a choice by the law. However, the prospect of having KYC abolished or even just paused for some time is extremely low -- even if it doesn't work at all.

[lixer]

I highly doubt that AI would be good enough to mimic official documents yet, and you can always go with that. This way, you can get official documents for your name and you will get the best results and it would be trusted.

So far it was ID and photo, and while Photo is easily duplicated these days thanks to AI, there is still very low chance that national ID can be mimicked that easily, and even if they can start doing that, you can do something as easy as electricity bill or whatever and you will be fine.

[Satofan44]

I highly doubt that AI would be good enough to mimic official documents yet, and you can always go with that. This way, you can get official documents for your name and you will get the best results and it would be trusted.

So far it was ID and photo, and while Photo is easily duplicated these days thanks to AI, there is still very low chance that national ID can be mimicked that easily, and even if they can start doing that, you can do something as easy as electricity bill or whatever and you will be fine.

How about then not fucking talking about things that you have zero knowledge about, both theoretical and practical? Your opinion on these matters is completely meaningless, your value is zero. What matters is only the objective truth and what is actually happening in the real world. The KYC system does not have a method to check whether each person actually exists. You can't verify from a picture whether an ID is a real ID, a physical well-made fake, or a digitally made fake either. Furthermore, AI has already been used to both:
1) Bypass facial verification, both for people that exist and for people that don't exist.
2) Issue fake IDs, to make up people.

How can you idiots not get it from a simple example? To fake an utility bill you just need to edit some text, it takes less than 5 minutes. To fake an ID, not even AI is needed, someone skilled enough could do it with Photoshop. What AI does is:
1) Improve the quality of the fakes.
2) Reduce the time needed to produce the fakes.

Do some research next time before you post misinformation about KYC. Here are some starting points. The people from Sumsub sound like experts here, but I have bypassed their system with a number of methods too. No entity that does KYC as a business will publicly admit how bad they are at their job, and how everyone else is bad too.  

https://www.identity.org/ai-generated-fake-ids/
https://sumsub.com/blog/ai-fake-id-challenge-for-kyc/

[The Sceptical Chymist]

I came across this blog/article which deals with what institutions need to know to satisfy identity requirements and so forth vs. what information they actually ask for and get, and what they're getting is a whole bunch of ancillary data about people that can very likely end up screwing over individuals, while those institutions blithely go about their business without a care in the world how many ruined lives they left in their wake. 

I found this quote eye-opening, as I'd never considered any of this before:

Current know-your-customer (KYC) requirements force users to surrender comprehensive identity documents to every service requiring verification. Each disclosure creates a database that can be breached, subpoenaed, or misused. Zero-knowledge KYC (ZK-KYC) offers an alternative: prove compliance without disclosure. A user could prove "identity verified by licensed institution" without revealing the identity itself to downstream services. The compliance requirement is met; the surveillance infrastructure is not created.

This remains largely speculative as deployed regulation. Regulators accustomed to comprehensive disclosure may resist verification methods they cannot inspect. But the technical capability exists to satisfy regulatory purposes while minimizing privacy invasion. Whether regulators will accept ZK-KYC depends on policy choices, not technical limitations.

The privacy implications extend beyond individual transactions. Identity verification currently creates comprehensive profiles as a side effect. Each age check, address verification, and credential presentation adds to dossiers that follow individuals across contexts. Zero-knowledge verification prevents this accumulation. Each proof reveals only what that specific verification requires; nothing aggregates across verifications because nothing is revealed to aggregate.

[Asuspawer09]

This was some next-level stuff here, I mean, this could easily trick anyone. We already see a lot of deepfakes or faceswap online, but this one was another scary AI that is surely going to be a problem in the future.

This AI can easily trick KYC for sure but I guess if the platform that is doing the KYC is verifying the user completely this is not going to work for sure, I mean the face recognition for sure is going to work at some point, It was pretty realistic in the first place, so it might be easy to trick this KYC for a camera photo but most of the time the KYC is gonna required some more identifications like ID, another photo with your ID, and if they are going to actually verify the ID they could easily see if it is a fake one or a real one, if they are doing the actual verification of the IDs.

Still I could easily see this being use in a lot of scams, on social media, I know a lot of people getting scammed when my friend's parent's social media account got hack, then the hacker chat all of the parents friends on that account and ask for money saying that it's some kind of emergency if they are going to use this like video call then say that they just needed help it is going to work, I mean a lot of people cannot even Identify the AI video to a realistic one.

[Hanadawa]

This is scary as fuck, just imagining the possibility of where it could be used is unsettling. Just a few years back, there were people getting scammed because of AI voice mimicking the loved ones of the people they were trying to scam, but now they can add a video to make it more realistic. AI technology is advancing too fast, and people are not prepared for it.

People used to laugh at AI-generated videos because they were so ugly and unnatural. That was just a few years ago. Now, AI technology is getting even crazier. Generated videos look natural. The generated voices are almost identical to real voices. And editing for KYC can be very easy by utilizing AI-generated videos, images, and sounds. The problem is, for most people, their personal data has been leaked on social media. At least they've uploaded their ID cards to scam sites. I'm also worried because during the ICO scam era, I once gave my ID card data to an ICO site that's now gone/scammed. Of the three OP options above, I don't see any that can minimize this. Yes, sending a pigeon is a good idea, but only if the company requesting KYC is within your pigeon's coverage area  .

[betswift]

This is scary as fuck, just imagining the possibility of where it could be used is unsettling. Just a few years back, there were people getting scammed because of AI voice mimicking the loved ones of the people they were trying to scam, but now they can add a video to make it more realistic. AI technology is advancing too fast, and people are not prepared for it.

People used to laugh at AI-generated videos because they were so ugly and unnatural. That was just a few years ago. Now, AI technology is getting even crazier. Generated videos look natural. The generated voices are almost identical to real voices. And editing for KYC can be very easy by utilizing AI-generated videos, images, and sounds. The problem is, for most people, their personal data has been leaked on social media. At least they've uploaded their ID cards to scam sites. I'm also worried because during the ICO scam era, I once gave my ID card data to an ICO site that's now gone/scammed. Of the three OP options above, I don't see any that can minimize this. Yes, sending a pigeon is a good idea, but only if the company requesting KYC is within your pigeon's coverage area  .

I wouldn't call it scary, more like loopholes being developed by AI advancing that much.

Eventually, the counter-systems will keep up with them, and we will enter this loop again.

[Satofan44]

I came across this blog/article which deals with what institutions need to know to satisfy identity requirements and so forth vs. what information they actually ask for and get, and what they're getting is a whole bunch of ancillary data about people that can very likely end up screwing over individuals, while those institutions blithely go about their business without a care in the world how many ruined lives they left in their wake.  

The whole system is broken. I can guarantee you that most entities who work with these things actually do not care whether your KYC data is real or not, they just care about satisfying the green checkboxes in those systems. They themselves may or may not be aware how flawed this system is, but in any case most of them do not care at all. Think about a bank employee. When you are registering in a bank, do you really think that the employee cares at all if what data you provided him is accurate or not? Only if he is a fool of the system would he care in his underpaid and wage-slaving job. We have a very dangerous system, but you can do a variety of things to get around it including submitting false data. If you know what you are doing, it will never be discovered. Only people who draw attention to themselves in certain ways are deeply investigated, but if you are such a person you are already in much more trouble than you would be for submitting some false KYC data.

Generally I see lots of people claiming to be against KYC in these parts, but if pressured on what to do about it they back into a corner. Most solutions, if you need to use some of these system, will involve doing some sort of fraud except in cases of very complicated and expensive solutions. This is where most people get afraid to state publicly that you should do a crime. But what is a crime in a totalitarian and oppressive system?   It is mostly pointless to be against something and not do anything about it. By the time most people wake up and decide whether they are willing to commit a "crime", you will have to do a KYC and DNA scan to exit your house. At that point it will be mostly too late, but these people should know that they have did this to us -- not any people that are in power, but the people that refused to resist the gradual measures as they came for ridiculous and whiny reasons. I'd rather be a criminal and die for freedom than to live in an oppressive surveillance system.

Appropriate place to write this: Fuck the EU and most Europeans.