New battery type - game changer in global economy?

[X-ray]

all ev cars can not happen with out a standard drop in pack that works with every ev in the world.

it needs to be about 100 pounds and when you go for a fast fill up it can be pulled and switched out in 1-2 minutes giving you 75-120 miles depending on your evs efficiency.

now if this battery is reliable and you can do a fast swap to go 100 miles or so fine.

That is definitely the ideal solution, just switch battery in a station to get hundred miles worth of energy but for some reason most of EV manufacturers are doing it only to electric scooters.

Most of EV cars still requires hours of charging just to get good enough miles and for me, such EV is not worth the hassle. I ain't got time waiting hours just to get few hundred miles and if the charging station is bad, you gonna spend another few hours because the charging is slow.

With new battery technology if they could make the battery more compact with the same energy density, it might be possible for battery swap.

[DrBeer]

all ev cars can not happen with out a standard drop in pack that works with every ev in the world.

it needs to be about 100 pounds and when you go for a fast fill up it can be pulled and switched out in 1-2 minutes giving you 75-120 miles depending on your evs efficiency.

now if this battery is reliable and you can do a fast swap to go 100 miles or so fine.

That is definitely the ideal solution, just switch battery in a station to get hundred miles worth of energy but for some reason most of EV manufacturers are doing it only to electric scooters.

Most of EV cars still requires hours of charging just to get good enough miles and for me, such EV is not worth the hassle. I ain't got time waiting hours just to get few hundred miles and if the charging station is bad, you gonna spend another few hours because the charging is slow.

With new battery technology if they could make the battery more compact with the same energy density, it might be possible for battery swap.

 
As far as I understand, the problem with “replaceable batteries” lies in the complexity of their implementation in mass-market vehicles, primarily due to safety concerns. Why does it work on scooters and, for example, the Tesla Semi? Because of their different design and operating characteristics. Scooters do not have heavy batteries or high speeds. Plus, they are easy to replace.
 Even in an accident, they will not cause additional damage. The Tesla Semi is a large and powerful truck, built on a frame with a lot of rigid structures and enough space to accommodate the batteries.
 A passenger car carries batteries weighing an average of 500 kg. These batteries have to be placed between the underbody and the rest of the body to balance the car. Moreover, they must also be protected from external influences, i.e., PROTECTED by the underbody.
 As a result, we have an extremely inconvenient design (weight, dimensions, location) for replaceable units. When batteries become significantly lighter and more compact, passenger cars with replaceable batteries may appear.

[ovcijisir]

Few days ago I found interesting article about solid state battery developement and in article Chinese authority in EV batteries made interesting prediction how he forsees the milestones of solid state batteries:

According to Ouyang, the industrialisation of solid-state batteries will occur in three stages:

From 2025 to 2027: Development of graphite and low-silicon anode sulfide solid-state batteries with energy densities of 200-300Wh/kg, focusing on establishing the complete technology chain.

From 2027 to 2030: High-silicon anode sulfide solid-state batteries targeting 400Wh/kg and 800Wh/L, concentrating on high-capacity, low-expansion, long-cycling silicon-carbon anodes.

From 2030 to 2035: Lithium anode sulfide solid-state batteries aiming for 500Wh/kg and 1000Wh/L, with research focusing on advanced anodes and high-voltage, high-capacity cathodes.

Source: https://carnewschina.com/2026/03/15/chinas-top-ev-expert-ouyang-minggao-solid-state-batteries-need-years-to-mature-current-technology-already-good

[DrBeer]

Here's some great news from the “dubious project” There are REAL tests in REAL-world conditions.

"Donut Lab's breakthrough battery was tested for the first time on a real electric motorcycle
The Finnish company Donut Lab conducted the fourth public test of its breakthrough battery. This time, the test was not performed on individual cells in a laboratory, but on a full-scale 18 kWh battery pack installed on a Verge TS Pro motorcycle. The battery pack, installed on a real motorcycle and charged at a standard charging station, confirmed that it is ready to change perceptions about the convenience of electric vehicles.
The new battery’s design uses air cooling, which simplifies assembly and makes it suitable for both large and small vehicles. The test was conducted at a standard public fast-charging station, demonstrating the system’s performance under real-world operating conditions.
The test results were impressive. Charging began with the battery pack at a temperature of approximately 20 °C. The peak power delivered to the pack exceeded 100 kW (charging mode: 5C). The battery charged from 10% to 50% in about 5 minutes, to 70% in just over 9 minutes, and to 80% in about 12 minutes. This is roughly three times faster than what the standard lithium battery, which comes standard on this motorcycle model, could achieve.
The company emphasized that this is the first public test demonstrating the operation of multiple cells working together in an actual vehicle, rather than individually. As a result, the Verge TS Pro electric motorcycle has become the fastest-charging electric motorcycle in the world. Moreover, even with a standard lithium battery, Verge Motorcycles’ motorcycle made it into the Guinness World Records for the longest range on a single charge. And the Donut Lab battery could potentially increase that range by another 50–80%!"


https://interestingengineering.com/energy/donut-lab-solid-state-verge-motorcycle-battery-test

[ovcijisir]

Here's some great news from the “dubious project” There are REAL tests in REAL-world conditions.

~
The test results were impressive. Charging began with the battery pack at a temperature of approximately 20 °C. The peak power delivered to the pack exceeded 100 kW (charging mode: 5C). The battery charged from 10% to 50% in about 5 minutes, to 70% in just over 9 minutes, and to 80% in about 12 minutes. This is roughly three times faster than what the standard lithium battery, which comes standard on this motorcycle model, could achieve.
The company emphasized that this is the first public test demonstrating the operation of multiple cells working together in an actual vehicle, rather than individually. As a result, the Verge TS Pro electric motorcycle has become the fastest-charging electric motorcycle in the world. Moreover, even with a standard lithium battery, Verge Motorcycles’ motorcycle made it into the Guinness World Records for the longest range on a single charge. And the Donut Lab battery could potentially increase that range by another 50–80%!"


https://interestingengineering.com/energy/donut-lab-solid-state-verge-motorcycle-battery-test

Thank you for the article DrBeer! So far it seems that Donut lab is really on to something, as all the public tests show pretty impressive results.

But as lot of people in industry said that the battery with that kind of specifications is impossible to make. So I wonder if the results of the tests could be faked. I really hope that we will have revolution in battery design as Donut lab promises, but it is yet to see what will happen next.

[X-ray]

A passenger car carries batteries weighing an average of 500 kg. These batteries have to be placed between the underbody and the rest of the body to balance the car. Moreover, they must also be protected from external influences, i.e., PROTECTED by the underbody.
 As a result, we have an extremely inconvenient design (weight, dimensions, location) for replaceable units. When batteries become significantly lighter and more compact, passenger cars with replaceable batteries may appear.

That makes a lot of sense, if replacing battery is impossible due to the inconvenient design, then the only way is to wait for a battery that is more dense in energy density so the battery can be smaller making it possible for instant replacement.

Maybe using the new battery technology being used in chinese phone that recently able to double the energy while mantaining smaller form factor is the way even though it'd need a lot of testing.

[DrBeer]

Here's some great news from the “dubious project” There are REAL tests in REAL-world conditions.

~
The test results were impressive. Charging began with the battery pack at a temperature of approximately 20 °C. The peak power delivered to the pack exceeded 100 kW (charging mode: 5C). The battery charged from 10% to 50% in about 5 minutes, to 70% in just over 9 minutes, and to 80% in about 12 minutes. This is roughly three times faster than what the standard lithium battery, which comes standard on this motorcycle model, could achieve.
The company emphasized that this is the first public test demonstrating the operation of multiple cells working together in an actual vehicle, rather than individually. As a result, the Verge TS Pro electric motorcycle has become the fastest-charging electric motorcycle in the world. Moreover, even with a standard lithium battery, Verge Motorcycles’ motorcycle made it into the Guinness World Records for the longest range on a single charge. And the Donut Lab battery could potentially increase that range by another 50–80%!"


https://interestingengineering.com/energy/donut-lab-solid-state-verge-motorcycle-battery-test

Thank you for the article DrBeer! So far it seems that Donut lab is really on to something, as all the public tests show pretty impressive results.

But as lot of people in industry said that the battery with that kind of specifications is impossible to make. So I wonder if the results of the tests could be faked. I really hope that we will have revolution in battery design as Donut lab promises, but it is yet to see what will happen next.

Not so long ago, it was believed that “metal airplanes” couldn't fly Progress and new technologies are changing our world. What was impossible yesterday was likely impossible only because we didn't know “how it worked” or weren't aware of certain physical or chemical laws. But discoveries and dedicated work—they get results! Now we can see that this isn’t just theory but very real practice.

[DrBeer]

A few more updates on the project:

"Donut Lab’s solid-state battery did not catch fire and continued to function even after being punctured
The Finnish startup Donut Lab continues to conduct a series of independent tests on its solid-state battery in collaboration with the state-run research center VTT. According to the company, this battery possesses characteristics unattainable by conventional lithium batteries, which the company intends to prove in collaboration with independent experts. And so far, they’ve been successful, though questions remain.
One of the latest experiments focused on testing the battery’s behavior when damaged.
 Earlier, during a test involving extreme operating heat (up to 100 °C), the sealed battery pack swelled and “lost its vacuum,” which in conventional lithium-ion batteries often leads to thermal runaway and fire. With a damaged sample in hand, the company decided to test how safely it would operate in this condition.
The experiment consisted of three stages: a baseline charge-discharge cycle at 1C (26 A charge current), followed by an intensive test comprising 50 cycles of accelerated charging at 5C with a 130 A current, and a repeat baseline cycle to assess degradation. As a result, the cell capacity, which was 24.7 Ah at baseline, dropped to 11.2 Ah in the swollen state, losing approximately 55%, and the battery efficiency decreased from 89.6% to 83%, while the pack thickness increased by 17%. However, the battery’s operating temperature remained stable, and there were no heating spikes or fires.
Unlike traditional lithium-ion batteries, where a breach in the seal often leads to catastrophic consequences, Donut Lab’s solid-state battery “failed gracefully”—it continued to operate at reduced capacity without posing a danger to the user. The company emphasized: “No temperature spikes, no fire risk”. According to the developers, this demonstrates the potential advantage of solid-state technologies for the safety of electric cars and motorcycles, especially in emergency situations."

[mindrust]

Unless the car recharges in 5 minutes, has 1000 km range per charge and the battery doesn’t degrade in 10 years, performs the same in cold and hot weather, electric vehiches can fuck right off. It is not because I hate ev’s for no reason. It is because clearly gas powered cars are way more practical.

You refill your fuel tank in 5 mins, don’t give a damn about the weather, do 800 to 1000 kilometers regardless of the car’s age… What do EV’s offer? Worse of everything. No ty.

**I just noticed I forgot the safety angle. Driving on top of a chemical explosive is not the brightest idea either. Not sure how does this new battery compare to the lithium ones but if they light up and fry everything in seconds, again; no ty.

[DrBeer]

Unless the car recharges in 5 minutes, has 1000 km range per charge and the battery doesn’t degrade in 10 years, performs the same in cold and hot weather, electric vehiches can fuck right off. It is not because I hate ev’s for no reason. It is because clearly gas powered cars are way more practical.

You refill your fuel tank in 5 mins, don’t give a damn about the weather, do 800 to 1000 kilometers regardless of the car’s age… What do EV’s offer? Worse of everything. No ty.

**I just noticed I forgot the safety angle. Driving on top of a chemical explosive is not the brightest idea either. Not sure how does this new battery compare to the lithium ones but if they light up and fry everything in seconds, again; no ty.

In the early days of mechanical engineering, the range wasn’t great either But… people kept making them anyway.
Gasoline is flammable, explosive, and environmentally unfriendly—yet we use internal combustion engines everywhere.
Right now, we’re actually seeing the initial stage of the transition from internal combustion engines to battery-powered electric motors. New technologies are being actively developed, safety is improving, and other characteristics are being enhanced.
Regarding fire hazard—this is specific to lithium batteries due to the active component in the batteries, which leads to “infernal burning”; for example, lead-acid batteries do not use lithium in the form of a flammable component

[philipma1957]

A passenger car carries batteries weighing an average of 500 kg. These batteries have to be placed between the underbody and the rest of the body to balance the car. Moreover, they must also be protected from external influences, i.e., PROTECTED by the underbody.
 As a result, we have an extremely inconvenient design (weight, dimensions, location) for replaceable units. When batteries become significantly lighter and more compact, passenger cars with replaceable batteries may appear.

That makes a lot of sense, if replacing battery is impossible due to the inconvenient design, then the only way is to wait for a battery that is more dense in energy density so the battery can be smaller making it possible for instant replacement.

Maybe using the new battery technology being used in chinese phone that recently able to double the energy while mantaining smaller form factor is the way even though it'd need a lot of testing.

Even a dual battery system.

A large one with new tech you charge at your home maybe it gets 1000 miles

A smaller quick swap  at the fuel station gives  100 miles.

It was nice to see a full charge in 12 minutes on the motorcycle battery but still too slow.

My hybrid fills up with gas in about 90 seconds and I can drive 600 miles on it.

So 12 Minutes for a fill up is too slow . If you are in line with 3 cars in front of you it takes 36minutes to start while the three in front of you. Then 12 for you. 48 minutes to fill your car does not work.

I think this new tech could make a hybrid do 2000 miles on a fillup.

[DrBeer]

A passenger car carries batteries weighing an average of 500 kg. These batteries have to be placed between the underbody and the rest of the body to balance the car. Moreover, they must also be protected from external influences, i.e., PROTECTED by the underbody.
 As a result, we have an extremely inconvenient design (weight, dimensions, location) for replaceable units. When batteries become significantly lighter and more compact, passenger cars with replaceable batteries may appear.

That makes a lot of sense, if replacing battery is impossible due to the inconvenient design, then the only way is to wait for a battery that is more dense in energy density so the battery can be smaller making it possible for instant replacement.

Maybe using the new battery technology being used in chinese phone that recently able to double the energy while mantaining smaller form factor is the way even though it'd need a lot of testing.

Even a dual battery system.

A large one with new tech you charge at your home maybe it gets 1000 miles

A smaller quick swap  at the fuel station gives  100 miles.

It was nice to see a full charge in 12 minutes on the motorcycle battery but still too slow.

My hybrid fills up with gas in about 90 seconds and I can drive 600 miles on it.

So 12 Minutes for a fill up is too slow . If you are in line with 3 cars in front of you it takes 36minutes to start while the three in front of you. Then 12 for you. 48 minutes to fill your car does not work.

I think this new tech could make a hybrid do 2000 miles on a fillup.

I don’t think that the roughly 10 minutes it takes to charge is sufficiently offset by the cost of fuel per mile, environmental friendliness, and driving comfort.
And in a while, I suppose, batteries will appear with charging speeds close to that of capacitors (something like supercapacitor technology), which will make charging faster than filling up with gas.

[ovcijisir]

New interesting news regarding solid state batteries - it seems that Mercedes benz also made a few patents in that direction.

The more competition the faster the developement of solid state battery will be.

Also there is one interesting excerpt from that article is about Toyota and Nissan planning to produce solid state battery next year:

Toyota has said it is shooting for mass production in 2027, with Nissan not far behind.

^{Source: https://carbuzz.com/mercedes-solid-state-battery-future}

[DrBeer]

New interesting news regarding solid state batteries - it seems that Mercedes benz also made a few patents in that direction.

The more competition the faster the developement of solid state battery will be.

Also there is one interesting excerpt from that article is about Toyota and Nissan planning to produce solid state battery next year:

Toyota has said it is shooting for mass production in 2027, with Nissan not far behind.

^{Source: https://carbuzz.com/mercedes-solid-state-battery-future}

It looks like solid-state battery technology is set to become the market trend. This makes perfect sense, as it solves a host of problems: higher capacity, the ability to manufacture batteries in virtually any size or shape, no risk of fire like with lithium batteries, high cycle life, and fast charging speeds... I wonder if they’ll produce batteries for “old” cars? That would be really cool!

[lizarder]

Startup "Donut lab" from Finland has recently presented prototype of solid state battery.

The new battery design has bunch of upsides in comparison to lithium batteries:
- Faster charging time
- Longer lifetime of battery 
- Ability to operate in much wider temperature range
- Using minerals other than lithium

Im interested in possible implications on global economy. Car industry will certainly be affected if this battery proves itself over time.

The emphasis may not be entirely effective, although battery usage can prove more effective over time and I believe the maintenance costs associated with battery life can also be quite costly. Some articles I've read actually consider batteries not a solution to replace energy sources themselves, but rather a transition to renewable energy with methods that need to be improved to be more environmentally friendly as raw materials. I'm not an expert on this issue, but it indicates that such a transition requires some adjustments that may be acceptable to all groups.

Many automotive industries are now developing electric cars, but the cost of purchasing these cars is much higher than purchasing cars that run on gasoline. This demonstrates the high cost of producing electric cars, so the industry must identify suitable markets for marketing. In my country, electric cars are not yet fully adopted because the percentage of electric car usage is still quite small compared to traditional car usage.

[o48o]

And just like i thought, "Solid-state" in that battery was just marketing hype for private investors.

Donut Lab battery failed in VTT tests:
https://web.archive.org/web/20260323152138/https://www.kauppalehti.fi/uutiset/a/324befeb-76ea-4c2d-98ef-7b23e8dd0587

It's in Finnish, because it's a Finnish company but online translator hopefully helps

But experts seem to think that because of test results, they believe that it's not likely even solid state like they promised. After 50 cycles of 5C charging, battery dropped over half in capacity (from 25Ah to 11 Ah).

[mindrust]

And just like i thought, "Solid-state" in that battery was just marketing hype for private investors.

Donut Lab battery failed in VTT tests:
https://web.archive.org/web/20260323152138/https://www.kauppalehti.fi/uutiset/a/324befeb-76ea-4c2d-98ef-7b23e8dd0587

It's in Finnish, because it's a Finnish company but online translator hopefully helps

But experts seem to think that because of test results, they believe that it's not likely even solid state like they promised. After 50 cycles of 5C charging, battery dropped over half in capacity (from 25Ah to 11 Ah).

The thing is, they can’t even easily come up with a new battery now because a new battery would render all the existing ones worthless.

They say there is development ongoing on batteries and they say it is a good thing. It is the worst thing if you already bought your battery powered car. Try to sell your car used once the new battery tech emerges, good luck because you’ll need it. (Battery powered cars already have dead used car market anyway)

I am with oil till the battery development is over and they get better than gas powered cars which is probably not going to happen soon or in a decade. (And I don’t want them catching fire when they get hit, or randomly without getting a hit. That’s not negotiable.)

[DrBeer]

And just like i thought, "Solid-state" in that battery was just marketing hype for private investors.

Donut Lab battery failed in VTT tests:
https://web.archive.org/web/20260323152138/https://www.kauppalehti.fi/uutiset/a/324befeb-76ea-4c2d-98ef-7b23e8dd0587

It's in Finnish, because it's a Finnish company but online translator hopefully helps

But experts seem to think that because of test results, they believe that it's not likely even solid state like they promised. After 50 cycles of 5C charging, battery dropped over half in capacity (from 25Ah to 11 Ah).

 It is important to read the terms of this test very carefully. The point was that initially, the “new battery” was run through a standard cycle, and then testing began under critical and extreme conditions.
 The final tests were conducted after the battery had already been exposed to extremely high temperatures, was partially damaged, but DID NOT CATCH FIRE; it did not experience a temperature runaway, and it did not cause any dangerous reactions or damage. Although, as reported, some of the components were identical to those used in lithium-ion batteries, which would not have survived such testing and would have led to a dangerous situation

[ovcijisir]

There is another news regarding this topic, company Verge started production of electric motorcycles powered by Donut labs solid state batteries. I just hope this is not April fools joke, as the news was published yesterday on April 1st.

Estonian manufacturer Verge Motorcycles has announced the start of production of what is claimed to be the world’s first motorcycle powered by an all-solid-state battery.
Developed in collaboration with Finnish startup Donut Lab, the TS Pro’s new battery technology remains largely under wraps, with key details, such as the chemistry, undisclosed, according to reports.

Source: https://interestingengineering.com/energy/verge-solid-state-battery-electric-motorcycle-production