ETFs dead already?

[DeeppRockk]

The reality, however, is that between paper and the real thing, some prefer the paper. Also, in all fairness, it comes with a few advantages like not having to learn or worry about wallets and backups and whatnot. So, yeah, there are those who prefer the paper.

There are still talks about them Bitcoin ETFs, but not as though they're a new thing. Of course, their volumes rise and fall. I did a quick check on IBIT's volume, BlackRock's Bitcoin ETF. It's still in the billions daily. That remains huge, far from dead.

The volumes are quite decent. Institutions have been mostly buying and occasionally selling bitcoin almost on daily basis.
Another advantage of having ETFs is to not worry about the private keys since we the institutions are holding the custody of their bitcoins.
We can say ETFs have it's own pros and cons and while some prefer the real bitcoins, some others might prefer ETFs which is not that bad at all.

Yeah, it's the same trade-off, just in a different package.

If I remember right, first it was trusting those early online wallets, then it was the new exchanges that swore they were better than Gox. Now it's institutions trusting custodians with their clients' coins. I get why it feels safer...

the names are bigger, they wear suits. But the risk is exactly the same. You're holding an IOU for bitcoin, not the real thing, which took me a while to figure out back in the day.

And those promises have a habit of breaking when things get ugly.

[Hamza2424]

If bitcoin investments somehow manage to show another 10x returns, then we can see people rush behind all type of bitcoin investment opportunities and bitcoin ETF also may get revived from that but until then we are going to see that ETF is slowly losing its attractiveness.

I don't think the rich people are the right term bro, because some investors were early, they invested and made a huge return on their investment, regardless of their financial status, meaning mostly could be poor.

Anyone investing for the long term, regardless of their financial status, must not care about the daily movement that's the rule. If you really want to make some money, invest in bitcoin and forget about it that you ever invested in it.

Although showing 10x is still possible, we might have to wait a little longer haha like a really long time it could take.

[Hazink]

The existed of Bitcoin ETF question.

Does the existed of ETFs really necessary? Because some.advisors are advising their follows to buy the real Bitcoin rather than ETF, they said one is paper and the other is the real thing, can't help but think why it existed in the first place.

Today no one is talking about them ETFs.

People are still talking about ETF, let's put it this way. Those who are so much busy and lazy at same time to manage their own wealth always need and asset management company to do that for them that's while they run to buy bitcoin through ETF, while those who are suppose much concern about the wellbeing of their asset and want something they can control go with buying the real Bitcoin and hold it in their wallet, ETF is their to provide opportunities to the big investors who where only limit to the stock market and other before.

[ThemePen]

Choice between Real Bitcoin and Bitcoin ETFs is one of whether to hold asset in own hands or leave it to a pro to manage it. Although experts can mostly suggest buying of real thing as it gives total power of it, use of ETFs is necessary as it lets any amounts of company money, such as pension funds and insurance companies, to put their money into Bitcoin in normal stock markets.
I agree that although true freedom and fact that it is open all time can be reached only if you have real Bitcoin, ETFs cannot be called paper since sellers are by law forced to buy and keep real Bitcoin in safes with every share that is sold. On one hand, it is my opinion that even with choice of keeping it yourself, ETFs can be good power since it is money motor that can bring in billions of dollars and push price up and make Bitcoin well known item in the world money system.

[BlackBoss_]

Choice between Real Bitcoin and Bitcoin ETFs is one of whether to hold asset in own hands or leave it to a pro to manage it. Although experts can mostly suggest buying of real thing as it gives total power of it, use of ETFs is necessary as it lets any amounts of company money, such as pension funds and insurance companies, to put their money into Bitcoin in normal stock markets.

Choosing between buying and storing bitcoin by themselves or Bitcoin ETF shares is a story like between convenience and inconvenience but it's not most point thing. People have to know about custodial and non custodial wallets, risk and benefits, and know that being self-custodian is not too difficult.

When they choose Bitcoin Spot ETFs and buy their shares, they choose going with custodial but it is even more risky than a direct custodial, but it contains a second third party as a custodian between the Bitcoin ETF company and investors. Going with custodian is risky already but moving next with another middle party as a custodian for the Bitcoin Spot ETF company increases risk further.

Custodians of Bitcoin Spot ETFs
https://blockworks.com/analytics/bitcoin-etf/tracker

[TedMosby]

I also thought the same at first, wondering why people choose ETFs instead of buying BTC directly on an exchange, because I am sure the technical side of crypto is not a major issue even if you are elderly.

But it turns out, stocks are the same, gold is also the same. There are ETFs for these kinds of assets, and still many people choose ETFs. There is demand for ETFs for something that can be accessed easily like these.




CMIIW, there are 3 kinds of Bitcoin ETFs: spot-based, futures-based, and mixed. For the first 2, you probably already know how they work. The last one, mixed, sometimes has Bitcoin mixed with other assets, not limited to other crypto, but it can be mixed with stocks, bonds, gold, anything you can name it.

I am sure people who choose ETFs are people with higher amounts of investment and they choose safety first. They don’t have time to learn from zero about technical crypto security.

Also, Bitcoin ETFs come with clearer regulation, so they feel safer due to the legal clarity.

Other than that, there is the tax reason…

The fundamental distinction lies in what triggers a taxable event:

ETFs: Only when you sell your ETF shares
Direct Holdings: Every time you interact with the blockchain (trade, swap, spend, etc.)

Automatic Reporting: Your brokerage generates 1099-B forms that are sent to both you and the IRS, CRA, or other relevant tax authorities.

You can hold crypto ETFs inside a traditional IRA, Roth IRA, or other tax-advantaged accounts at most major brokerages. Fidelity, Schwab, and Interactive Brokers all allow crypto ETF purchases in retirement accounts without special restrictions.

[BALIK]

The existed of Bitcoin ETF question.

Does the existed of ETFs really necessary? Because some.advisors are advising their follows to buy the real Bitcoin rather than ETF, they said one is paper and the other is the real thing, can't help but think why it existed in the first place.

Today no one is talking about them ETFs.

People are still talking about ETF, let's put it this way. Those who are so much busy and lazy at same time to manage their own wealth always need and asset management company to do that for them that's while they run to buy bitcoin through ETF, while those who are suppose much concern about the wellbeing of their asset and want something they can control go with buying the real Bitcoin and hold it in their wallet, ETF is their to provide opportunities to the big investors who where only limit to the stock market and other before.

Many people buy bitcoin through ETF not because they are too busy or lazy. In some cases, this is due to legal regulations or risk management issues.

AFAIK, pension funds and institutions are not allowed to hold bitcoin directly. Furthermore, large organizations typically have many shareholders, and they need to undergo audits, reporting, and everything need to be transparent. Therefore, using a non custodial wallet only makes things more complicated and risky. ETFs are a solution and a more suitable option for them.

[pawanjain]

Yeah, it's the same trade-off, just in a different package.

If I remember right, first it was trusting those early online wallets, then it was the new exchanges that swore they were better than Gox. Now it's institutions trusting custodians with their clients' coins. I get why it feels safer...

the names are bigger, they wear suits. But the risk is exactly the same. You're holding an IOU for bitcoin, not the real thing, which took me a while to figure out back in the day.

And those promises have a habit of breaking when things get ugly.

Its not the client coins directly. Institutions buy bitcoin for themselves and provide ETFs as an asset to hold.
It's all on paper and no clients hold any bitcoins directly or indirectly.
But yeah, insitutions do hold bitcoins directly and they do hold their own private keys and are responsible for the same.
If they lose the private keys to their bitcoins, they are still legally liable to pay their investors their holdings.

[dansus021]

Im not sure if the ETF dead already

One things that I know is company like GrayScale and JaneStreet keep making new ETF from the altcoin market aswell. You know that Global ETF holding currently now hold over 1.28 million BTC—making them the largest collective holder in the world and they are doing $20B+ in weekly trading volume.

Didnt sound dead to me

[Die_empty]

The existed of Bitcoin ETF question.

Does the existed of ETFs really necessary? Because some.advisors are advising their follows to buy the real Bitcoin rather than ETF, they said one is paper and the other is the real thing, can't help but think why it existed in the first place.

Today no one is talking about them ETFs.

People are still talking about ETF, let's put it this way. Those who are so much busy and lazy at same time to manage their own wealth always need and asset management company to do that for them that's while they run to buy bitcoin through ETF, while those who are suppose much concern about the wellbeing of their asset and want something they can control go with buying the real Bitcoin and hold it in their wallet, ETF is their to provide opportunities to the big investors who where only limit to the stock market and other before.

I know people who believe that government approval of an asset is essential.  They will never invest in any asset unless the government has approved it. Such people are investing in ETFs and don't want to take responsibility for buying real Bitcoin. So I don't think the demand for ETFs will ever end. These ETF providers also spend money on promotion, which many people may not know: Bitcoin can be bought without any middleman. Let me conclude that although this is not the right means of buying Bitcoin it is satisfying a segment of the market.

[LogitechMouse]

The existed of Bitcoin ETF question.

Does the existed of ETFs really necessary? Because some.advisors are advising their follows to buy the real Bitcoin rather than ETF, they said one is paper and the other is the real thing, can't help but think why it existed in the first place.

Today no one is talking about them ETFs.

Inflows are in the millions per day. Outflows are in the millions in dollars per day. Now tell me that ETFs are now dead.

Is it necessary? Probably yes, probably no, but these large institutions can just create one since they've been allowed by the SEC to create one. Let's face it. There are some people that don't want to buy Bitcoin and hold on their own for many reasons and this is the reason why ETFs are existing. These institutions are allowing those people to still hold some Bitcoin even though it's not the actual Bitcoin that they're holding. If I'm wrong, please somebody correct me.

No one is talking about ETFs because it doesn't need to be necessarily be talked. What I mean is that, ETFs will exist for a long time. ETFs are dead? Just look at the picture that I shared.

[348Judah]

There is much hypes bitcoin ETF the first time it was introduced and launched after the SEC approve it, money also made a wrong assumption over it, thinking that it's good serve then even the same way they can make profit from bitcoin investment, barely know the difference between that and why they should consider Bitcoin on its own and being different from bitcoin ETF.

All this come together even when the market goes on the bullrun and and looks green that everyone see more opportunity from investing in bitcoins spot ETF, but now, they have also experienced the decline as the market falls

[cryptoaddictchie]

The existed of Bitcoin ETF question.

Does the existed of ETFs really necessary? Because some.advisors are advising their follows to buy the real Bitcoin rather than ETF, they said one is paper and the other is the real thing, can't help but think why it existed in the first place.

Today no one is talking about them ETFs.

ETF created for some institutions to get in cause maybe they dont like the approach of bitcoin as decentralized and wanted a ath where they can invest and make sure that they arent gonna be purge or make a mistake on bitcoin ecosystem like forgot their private key or send on a wrong address, or wrong usage of gas fee.

I can understand some people dont trust bitcoin but this ETF isnt bad though the goal of Satoshi isnt being followed as he want mo third party when using bitcoin. The OGs of bitcoins doesnt want that but its becoming part of the mass adoption( in terms of holding) due to etf. I cant criticize it as it both have pros and cons to creation of bitcoin.

For some institutions who hold big slice of bticoin, obviously this is just an investment but the bitcoin price also increases with their help like theres a win win on that but theres also a lose lose scenario for that either.

[fuguebtc]

Yeah, it's the same trade-off, just in a different package.

If I remember right, first it was trusting those early online wallets, then it was the new exchanges that swore they were better than Gox. Now it's institutions trusting custodians with their clients' coins. I get why it feels safer...

the names are bigger, they wear suits. But the risk is exactly the same. You're holding an IOU for bitcoin, not the real thing, which took me a while to figure out back in the day.

And those promises have a habit of breaking when things get ugly.

Yes, it is not real Bitcoin and still carries risks. However, the risks are not the same, and I think ETFs are much safer than cex.

ETFs are more tightly regulated, subject to oversight by regulatory bodies, and must comply with strict standards and audits. Unlike CEX, they lack oversight and a clear legal framework. They are not regulated by the SEC and are not subject to regular audit.


The difference is huge. That is why institutions and large investors can confidently pour billions of dollars into ETF, but they rarely do the same with CEXs.

[fikrett]

There is much hypes bitcoin ETF the first time it was introduced and launched after the SEC approve it, money also made a wrong assumption over it, thinking that it's good serve then even the same way they can make profit from bitcoin investment, barely know the difference between that and why they should consider Bitcoin on its own and being different from bitcoin ETF.

All this come together even when the market goes on the bullrun and and looks green that everyone see more opportunity from investing in bitcoins spot ETF, but now, they have also experienced the decline as the market falls

Why the money made the wrong assumption over it?..

They do make the profit they wanted, albeit surely, those that hodl etfs  don't hodl BTCs, but papers for it.

[FinneysTrueVision]

Today no one is talking about them ETFs.

People talk about them less because there are only so many interesting things you can say about an investment fund buying and selling something. Also, when the price was going down they were selling more often than they were buying so there was less opportunity for the influencers on social media to get impressions from “Blackrock buys X amount of Bitcoin” type of content.

Despite the bear market, there is still demand for Bitcoin exposure. Institutions aren’t going to be holding their own keys and they will opt for buying ETF shares instead.

[fikrett]

Today no one is talking about them ETFs.

People talk about them less because there are only so many interesting things you can say about an investment fund buying and selling something. Also, when the price was going down they were selling more often than they were buying so there was less opportunity for the influencers on social media to get impressions from “Blackrock buys X amount of Bitcoin” type of content.

Despite the bear market, there is still demand for Bitcoin exposure. Institutions aren’t going to be holding their own keys and they will opt for buying ETF shares instead.

Agreed. With bear coming right up, headlines are not filled up with flashy words because there may not be any

But companies would still continue to accumulate BTC through etfs or other means. Because they understand why it's beneficial to them.