The contrast is astonishing! Read the room, coretards.

[PrivacyG]

Buddy, you have no idea. For months and months, my posts and my threads were either deleted, locked, or moved to an obscure section with significantly less traffic. And it's still happening, albeit at a lower rate now.

I've been temporarily banned twice on the last 6 months or so.

I've been here for pretty long. I never saw any of my posts moved/deleted/locked until I started to discuss the subject of core corruption some 6 months ago.

Obscure section?  Like what, the Technical Discussion Board because that is to me at least what most of your Topics rather seem to fit in?  Maybe you were starting too many Topics too often about the SAME subject.

I count two days and it is still going since you started this Topic here.  I count over 20 Topics started by you since last October and over 90 percent of them are in the Bitcoin Discussion Board.  I count at least one Topic posted in Meta where you were insulting the Moderators or Administrator.  They are all still up so is this one.

Have you considered visiting a psychiatrist?

[nutildah]

LOL.

The problem is he doesn't care about anything except for disseminating his message, which ultimately is "pay attention to me." This would pose some problems on just about any social media platform where wanna-be influencers compete for attention using any means necessary.

Let's say he does care about preventing spam on bitcoin: acting like a lunatic in public isn't helping his cause. Its almost like he's a plant to make anti-Core people look crazy.

[BlackHatCoiner]

It is astonishing how much attention some people need.

I can guarantee you, though, Pepe, that your posts aren't getting deleted because Core and Blackrock own this forum. And the evidence for this is that far worse stupidity has been posted, insulting Core and lightning developers, over the years, and these users were allowed to keep posting freely. Believe me when I say it, there have been far worse cases than you. 

[PrivacyG]

LOL.

The problem is he doesn't care about anything except for disseminating his message, which ultimately is "pay attention to me." This would pose some problems on just about any social media platform where wanna-be influencers compete for attention using any means necessary.

Let's say he does care about preventing spam on bitcoin: acting like a lunatic in public isn't helping his cause. Its almost like he's a plant to make anti-Core people look crazy.

He sounds like he would make for a great Reddit moderator.

[PepeLapiu]

You can throw personal attacks at me and insult my character and motives all you want. That's easy to do.

But the reality is that to install Knots you have to be deliberately uninstalling core, and replace it with Knots.

And the reality is that an unknown number of core nodes automatically update to core 30 without the user input. I think this is an option offered in Casa nodes.

And in spite of some core nodes automatically updating to core 30, Knots sees greater adoption at 25% of the network versus 19% for core 30 (depending on who's counting).

And virtually EVERYWHERE you go on the internet, core gets absolutely cooked in the comments. Everywhere except this forum and the Google Devs mailing list. Both of which heavily controlled and influenced by core.

You can tell me all you want about the rules, and fairness, and technicalities, and how I fail to get along with them.

But the fact remains, a casual reader would get the impression that core is mostly accepted and trusted by the community if you get all your information from this forum only. Outside of this forum, core no longer controls the narrative and the voices.

[nutildah]

But the fact remains, a casual reader would get the impression that core is mostly accepted and trusted by the community if you get all your information from this forum only. Outside of this forum, core no longer controls the narrative and the voices.

Maybe you didn't know this but its possible to be in disagreement with a person or an idea and be civil about it... you don't have to act like a rabid dog when expressing your dissatisfaction. Most of the technical debate that happens is done so in a respectful tone and manner. Then there are people who insist on getting pissy when trying to make their points. That's you. So yeah, that is discouraged here as this is a forum for actual discussion.

[PepeLapiu]

Maybe you didn't know this but its possible to be in disagreement with a person or an idea and be civil about it... you don't have to act like a rabid dog when expressing your dissatisfaction. Most of the technical debate that happens is done so in a respectful tone and manner. Then there are people who insist on getting pissy when trying to make their points. That's you. So yeah, that is discouraged here as this is a forum for actual discussion.

You are completely skirting and avoinding the reality here.

The fact is that core is facing a wall of dissent and disapproval on every single platform, other than this forum and the Google devs email list.

If you only read this forum and/or the Google devs email list, you would come away with the belief that almost nobody disagrees with the direction core is taking.

Doesn't that strike you as a bit strange?

[nutildah]

If you only read this forum and/or the Google devs email list, you would come away with the belief that almost nobody disagrees with the direction core is taking.

Doesn't that strike you as a bit strange?

Nobody can dissuade you out of your opinions, and that's fine... I'm not here to do that. I think you're oversimplifying the issue by saying "almost nobody disagrees" with the direction core is going. Perhaps more people are in agreement with core here than elsewhere. But if you're trying to infer that Knots is somehow more popular than Core in any mainstream avenue of the internet, I'm going to disagree. Knots takes a lot of ridicule everywhere on an hourly basis.

If you notice, we don't really do much of that here either.

If you can learn to discuss issues without resorting to ad hominems or hyperbole while also acknowledging counterpoints to your arguments, then you will have no problem fitting in here. You'll be free to criticize Core to your heart's content.

[PepeLapiu]

Nobody can dissuade you out of your opinions, and that's fine... I'm not here to do that.

I'm not even talking about my own opinion here. I'm talking about the general community sentiment towards core and the latest core 30 release.

I think you're oversimplifying the issue by saying "almost nobody disagrees" with the direction core is going.

I'm saying the exact opposite: almost nobody agrees with the direction core is taking, if you look outside of this forum.

Perhaps more people are in agreement with core here than elsewhere.

Not, that is an EXTREME understatement.

But if you're trying to infer that Knots is somehow more popular than Core in any mainstream avenue of the internet, I'm going to disagree. Knots takes a lot of ridicule everywhere on an hourly basis.

I think if you look at any social media outside this forum's bubble, you will see there is an overwelming distrust and rejection of core. But let's put the social media aside for a minute, and look at on chain metrics.

Knots nodes (including BIP110) make up 25% of the network while core 30 nodes make up 19% of the network.

More people are switching to Knots than updating to core 30.

And that doesn't even take into account that an unknown number of core 30 updates are done automatically, without to user even being aware of it. I believe Casa node has that option.

And even when counting the core 30 auto updates, Knots still sees a faster adoption.

If you notice, we don't really do much of that here either.

LOL. Are you serious?

If you can learn to discuss issues without resorting to ad hominems or hyperbole while also acknowledging counterpoints to your arguments, then you will have no problem fitting in here. You'll be free to criticize Core to your heart's content.

I think if you read just this tread as an example, you will see tgatbI am mostly polite and respectful. Unless you are a spammer (aka Galois Field and his BRC bullshit) or if you say outright stupid shit like "What is spam anyways?", I am mostly respectful.

And yes, I am aware that the word coretard is in the tittle of this thread. But it's not like I was not caller a Knotzi or a nocoiner a zillion times.

[ABCbits]

Buddy, you have no idea. For months and months, my posts and my threads were either deleted, locked, or moved to an obscure section with significantly less traffic. And it's still happening, albeit at a lower rate now.

I've been temporarily banned twice on the last 6 months or so.

I've been here for pretty long. I never saw any of my posts moved/deleted/locked until I started to discuss the subject of core corruption some 6 months ago.

Obscure section?  Like what, the Technical Discussion Board because that is to me at least what most of your Topics rather seem to fit in?  Maybe you were starting too many Topics too often about the SAME subject.
--snip--

Related links,

• https://bitlist.co/post/66100628 and https://bitlist.co/post/66101039
• https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5565808.msg66071931#msg66071931

But the reality is that to install Knots you have to be deliberately uninstalling core, and replace it with Knots.

Technically wrong, you could configure both of them to use different port and point them to use different folder (due to LOCK feature).

And the reality is that an unknown number of core nodes automatically update to core 30 without the user input. I think this is an option offered in Casa nodes.

Relevant xkcd comic.


Source: https://xkcd.com/285/

About Casa node, it seems their website no longer such hardware. But i don't expect many people buy it in past, since i recall it was very expensive compared with buy Pi 4 or mini PC (usually with Intel N100) and install OS/Bitcoin software by yourself.

[PepeLapiu]

But the reality is that to install Knots you have to be deliberately uninstalling core, and replace it with Knots.

Technically wrong, you could configure both of them to use different port and point them to use different folder (due to LOCK feature).

My point is that if you want to run a Knots node, you have to deliberately move do it. While some of the core nodes might be auto-updated to core 30 without the user even being aware of it. But it's not possible to know how many have that option enabled.

And the reality is that an unknown number of core nodes automatically update to core 30 without the user input. I think this is an option offered in Casa nodes.

Relevant xkcd comic.

I don't know. I'm not even sure it's Casa that has that option for their users. But I distinctly remember that option causing some controversy at some point in the past.

About Casa node, it seems their website no longer such hardware. But i don't expect many people buy it in past, since i recall it was very expensive compared with buy Pi 4 or mini PC (usually with Intel N100) and install OS/Bitcoin software by yourself.

The number of nodes that updated automatically to core 30 without the user even being aware of it, that's not all that important. Because even if it's zero, Knots adoption is still larger than core 30 adoption.

[BlackHatCoiner]

One thing that strikes my mind is how you talk about percentages and numbers of people who migrated to Knots, as if it were measurable in the first place. May I presume you're ignoring all the Tor activity, and just sticking with clearnet nodes? I can easily fake 10 thousand of nodes as running Knots, by just taking advantage of the way Tor network works, and I think Lopp had done something similar.

It might be a little more difficult to accumulate many IPv4/IPv6 addresses, but it is still very doable.

[PepeLapiu]

One thing that strikes my mind is how you talk about percentages and numbers of people who migrated to Knots, as if it were measurable in the first place.

It is measurable, albeit via innacurate proxy. This is why I try to survey several different sites for my numbers.

May I presume you're ignoring all the Tor activity, and just sticking with clearnet nodes? I can easily fake 10 thousand of nodes as running Knots, by just taking advantage of the way Tor network works, and I think Lopp had done something similar.

I believe the use of Tor would hide your IP and location, not the node implementation you are using.
And yes, there is a possibility of a Sybil attack. But that goes both ways. I could easily claim that most of the core 30 nodes are spoofed, just as you claim for Knots nodes.

I think it's a useless and unproductive argument because we don't know either way. But I have attended a couple of bitcoin meetups and a conference this year. I think the distain and distrust for core is widespread and genuine, based on my interactions at those venues.

It's like the claim that the price drop it caused by core 30 or that it's caused by those who oppose core 30. We have no real way of knowing either way. And in fact the price drop could have very little to do with either of those reasons.

I think it's not productive to debate on things we can't possibly know.

But if you look around anywhere on social media or at bitcoin venues, it's clear that the majority of those Knots nodes are genuine.

Just go on YouTube, search for "Core VS Knots" or "Bitcoin spam war", click on any video that comes up, and read the comments. The distain and disgust for core is palpable and overwhelming.

Better yet, go to the core 31 announcement on X in the link below, scroll down to the poll submitted in the comments. There is a 96% disapproval rate:
https://x.com/TheButterZone/status/2033939269933494470

You want to have fun? Read the comments and replies to the core 30.2 announcement on X:
https://x.com/bitcoincoreorg/status/2010027022962286747

I also sell bitcoin as part of my income. All my buyers who run a node tell me they run Knots or BIP110. The only buyers I have who are on your side (a couple of them) are not running a node.

I can't prove it, but I'm certain that if there is a Cybil attack going on, if there are any spoofed nodes, it's all on the core side.

[BlackHatCoiner]

I believe the use of Tor would hide your IP and location, not the node implementation you are using.

Correct. I can create a thousand virtual machines, running Knots with onlyonion option, and the total accessible Knots nodes would suddenly increase by a thousand.

I think it's a useless and unproductive argument because we don't know either way.

Which is why talking about percentages and numbers of people running Knots is just bareless speculation based on obscure data.

But I have attended a couple of bitcoin meetups and a conference this year. I think the distain and distrust for core is widespread and genuine, based on my interactions at those venues.

In the meetups I have been into, the whole Knots movement is pretty much ridiculed and not taken seriously.

But if you look around anywhere on social media or at bitcoin venues, it's clear that the majority of those Knots nodes are genuine.

You do know the majority of social media and YouTube accounts are bots, right?

[PepeLapiu]

But I have attended a couple of bitcoin meetups and a conference this year. I think the distain and distrust for core is widespread and genuine, based on my interactions at those venues.

In the meetups I have been into, the whole Knots movement is pretty much ridiculed and not taken seriously.

Ha! I really don't believe that.

[PrivacyG]

You can throw personal attacks at me and insult my character and motives all you want. That's easy to do.

I only thought we would understand each other better if I spoke your language,

Fucking shitcoiner. You have no idea what you are fucking with,

Fucking retards.

That's the arguement coretards make:

You are an idiot.

-----

And virtually EVERYWHERE you go on the internet, core gets absolutely cooked in the comments. Everywhere except this forum and the Google Devs mailing list. Both of which heavily controlled and influenced by core.

Have you ever seen the comment section of a political Reddit Thread?  Have you seen how much Bitcoin Elon Musk has been doubling over on X?

A lot of people pushing for one particular thing all of a sudden does not mean it is a great idea.  I agree with BlackHatCoiner, these metrics mean as much as the other 'How many people own Bitcoin!' or 'How much Bitcoin is lost forever!' metrics based on how many active or dormant Addresses or presumed Wallets there are.

In fact.  The number of Topics you started on Bitcoin Talk on this ONE subject amounts to probably what at least 5 to 10 separate Members would spew in this time frame.  If all these people are 'EVERYWHERE' and they are like you, I am starting to wonder how many of them are just parrots spitting the same message all over any X Thread or Post.

[PepeLapiu]

You can throw personal attacks at me and insult my character and motives all you want. That's easy to do.

I only thought we would understand each other better if I spoke your language,

Fucking shitcoiner. You have no idea what you are fucking with,

Fucking retards.

That's the arguement coretards make:

You are an idiot.

As I already explained, I can get very aggresive and belligerent when dealing with actual spammers like Galois Field who is a BRC token dev, and thinks he belongs on a bitcoin forum, bragging about his shitcoin spam legacy. And those who support and defend him.

These spammers and spam defenders need to be treated with extreme prejudice. Let them know they clearly are not welcomed on bitcoin.

Have you ever seen the comment section of a political Reddit Thread?  Have you seen how much Bitcoin Elon Musk has been doubling over on X?

Again, those metrics, on both sides can be manipulated and engineered. I would not put much faith in those metrics if there did not reflect my IRL experiences.

All my clients who run a node run Knots or BIP110. The meetups and conference I attended here in El Salvador are all revolted at the behavior of core.

A lot of people pushing for one particular thing all of a sudden does not mean it is a great idea.

Regardless of how many bots you think there are, how many multi thread posters like me you think there are, and how much social engineering you think I am doing, and how wrong you think we are.

Doesn't that strike you as a bit weird that this forum is mostly isolated from all that?

Some things we know are real. We know the head core maintainer went on video more than once insulting bitcoiners, promoting shitcoins and spam on bitcoin as "use cases we have today" while core denied ordinal filters and blew up an existing spam filter.

And you think the backlask is fake? You think the backlask is not sincere? Overblown?

[DaveF]

.....
I can't prove it, but I'm certain that if there is a Cybil attack going on, if there are any spoofed nodes, it's all on the core side.

It's Sybil attack not Cybil

It's actually difficult to *prove* in any way but it's kind of *simple to infer* that it's lukecoin trying for the Sybil attack.

According to https://coin.dance/nodes there are about 18,300 real nodes and 5,300 lukecoin censoring nodes.

I setup 4 nodes to test.

Test1:
If you spin up a few nodes and just let them sit there and sync by just average numbers ~ 20% to 30% of peers should be lukecoin nodes that connect to you.
With my (admittedly limited) sample size of 4 nodes that are bare configs. Just install and run lukecoin peers are under 7%

Test2:
Look at how much data the lukecoin nodes that connect to you are pulling (i.e. them doing an initial sync) for my nodes no lukecoin nodes made it into the top 20 of data pulled for 3 of the nodes. 1 lukecoin node made it into the top 15 of the 4th node. Which you can infer from that is (once again from a limited sample) that they are not for the most part syncing from scratch but rather coming into existence fully ready to go. Not many people spin up nodes that way.

Now without more info I do not know (or care) where my experience is in terms of what others see. I can just see from the 4 test nodes that something seems off.

These are all clearnet. Can't at all speak to tor connections since all the ones I have on tor by default block a lot of other nodes so I can not pull any meaningful data from them about peers.

Edit: If I have time I'll wipe these 4 and do a tor test this week. But, will probably not happen till the week after due to a lack of time.

-Dave