For the life of me I never understood the cult of Trump

[BADecker]

^^^ But about Trump...

He isn't taking his presidential pay.

He needs to protect his own life and that of his family. This is why he can't take the Deep State down just like that. They would assassinate him. Some rifles can hit a target accurately from 2 miles away. Trump has to appear to be acting for the Deep State at the same time he destroys it.

In his own way, at his own time, he is collapsing the banking system for all of us who are stupidly against that, because we are so ignorant. At the same time, he is waking us up, little by little. How do we know? Because we are getting irritated by him, and we are seeking the reasons.

It's difficult for us to wake up to the fact that we can't sit around in relative luxury, forever, while other people around the world leach off us (suck our teat) and/or destroy each other using our (Fed) funds to do it.

Why pick on Trump? Because we would be picking at whoever was President, because the US President has become a big focal point. We would pick on anybody else who was President, and was trying to save America.

Wake up.

[Muba20]

Trump is the biggest fraud and crook in the history of the United States and yet people voted for him twice. The only way to describe it is a cult.

Trump's attitude when he first came to power has changed a lot since he came to power for the second time. He is now so powerful that he doesn't care about anyone. He will do whatever he says. For a country like America, such a leader is definitely not much worthy for the country. He should have been more prudent in taking decisions. The agreements he has made with different countries on tariffs are definitely not at the level of logic. Never before has there been a situation where he would set low and high tariffs with any country according to his wishes. Moreover, his relations with different countries are also very weak. If this leadership lasts for a long time, then America will definitely have to pay a lot more. There were other leaders in America before, but no one was so annoyed as now. Trump is now the most criticized one in his own country.

[BADecker]

Trump is the biggest fraud and crook in the history of the United States and yet people voted for him twice. The only way to describe it is a cult.

Trump's attitude when he first came to power has changed a lot since he came to power for the second time. He is now so powerful that he doesn't care about anyone. He will do whatever he says. For a country like America, such a leader is definitely not much worthy for the country. He should have been more prudent in taking decisions. The agreements he has made with different countries on tariffs are definitely not at the level of logic. Never before has there been a situation where he would set low and high tariffs with any country according to his wishes. Moreover, his relations with different countries are also very weak. If this leadership lasts for a long time, then America will definitely have to pay a lot more. There were other leaders in America before, but no one was so annoyed as now. Trump is now the most criticized one in his own country.

Trump's changes have come about because he is just a guy who is learning, like most of us. He finally realized how corrupt the government and the Federal Reserve Banking system really are. And this is something that most people recognize only moderately, if they recognize it at all.

The Federal Reserve Bank is not supposed to be the money system of America. It only squeaked by through legal loopholes which are against the spirit of the Constitution. The US Treasury is supposed to handle the money directly, and there are other ways than the corrupt Fed for doing so. But you don't see the corrupt Congress even talking about shutting down the Fed and placing the money back under the US Treasury.

Trump is crashing the Fed in the only way he safely knows how. How is he doing it? By becoming as corrupt against them as they are against all of us. He doesn't want to be corrupt. He absolutely DOES want REAL MAGA for the people and himself included. But how do you crash the European-controlled Fed without harming the people?

We should be honoring Trump because of his sacrifice. He is sacrificing himself and his integrity to save America... the people.

[Kazkaz27]

Trump is definitely no saint, but he was certainly our best option and man who's clearly protected by God. I think everyone who hates Trump forgets what the alternative was. There is a lot of derangement occurring on all sides. Whatever world we are living in now, I have a feeling it is far better than the one we would have had, despite the events that have unfolded.

Here's a list of things that are no longer confused:

•  Men are men and women are women — biological sex cannot be changed by feelings, hormones, or surgery.

•  Women’s sports are for biological females — men (biological males) should not compete in women’s or girls’ sports.

•  Girls’ bathrooms, locker rooms, and shelters are for girls — biological males should not be allowed in female-only spaces.

•  Children should not be given chemical or surgical interventions to “transition” — protect kids from irreversible decisions they can’t fully understand.

•  Parents, not schools or government, should raise their children — schools should not secretly socially transition kids or push gender ideology.

•  Borders and immigration: A country without secure borders isn’t a country — enforce the border, deport criminal illegal immigrants first, and prioritize legal immigration based on merit, skills, and what benefits America.

•  Energy and economy: Cheap, reliable energy powers prosperity — drill for oil and gas, keep coal as part of the mix, and reject unreliable mandates that drive up costs and risk blackouts.

•  Government spending: Taxpayer money should be spent wisely — cut waste, shrink bloated bureaucracy, and eliminate inefficient programs instead of endlessly growing government.

•  Education: Schools exist to teach reading, writing, and math — not to push political ideologies or lower standards in the name of “equity.”



The list of common sense practices implemented because of Trump is long…. I just wanted to list a few.

Many of the things in that list should never even have been up for debate. Sadly and crazy enough, many who can’t see why Trump was the right man for the job at this time in history would confuse genders or debate sex castration or changes for children.

[_Miracle]

Hey, everybody is a symptom of corruption. Even the best Bible people prove this by dying in their time. The thing we need to do is stop complaining, and seek Jesus's approval by filling on the words of the Bible, and then doing what we filled on.

Why do you think decentralized systems interested me? I don't 'just' complain ;-)
As for Jesus, that's between me and them.


I was wrong regarding bitcoin because I thought adoption was a good thing.

Why do you come to a cryptocurrency forum? On the Politics board?

'Cause it's fun meeting complainers who enjoy complaining more than doing something practical about what they are complaining about.

I suppose that's a cheap way to entertain one's self. We're getting every pennies [Satoshi's]  worth... actually doge no shibe's ... no... dollars, the Zimbabwe kind.

[jvanname]

Most people with TDS are really fucked up enough that they convince everyone around them to support Trump and to vote Republican for life. Maybe if they just kept quiet and acted like decent people, someone other than Trump would have won.

[caroasi]

I have highly relevant questions but you just talk past me with a laundry list rant, exactly the attitude that gets Trump more support. I honestly believe if everyone who hated Trump as much as you do just could actually see the other perspectives involved, like by actually listening and understanding the other sides, and acknowledge good points, then you'd actually be able to convince people not to support Trump. Ignoring good when it exists, but always acknowledge any remote hint of bad as definitely true is not going to get you in a good place. Its one thing to throw mud and see what sticks at your opponent, but its another to just think that every drop of mud always sticks... that is just plain incorrect.

Prosecution of things that are normally not prosecuted, against a declared enemy, is hardly prosecution and definitely persecution. Do you agree or disagree?

At this moment in time, with all the information that is widely available, if a person has not yet come the conclusion of how destructive and foul Trump is as a leader AND still wants to in any way support him. I'm not the one. I have zero respect for that perspective.
I gave you 1/10th of the laundry list (that YOU asked for) and you called it a rant.

You want serious engagement, as if anyone is under some obligation to address your "highly relevant questions"?
Get some relevant questions.

Meanwhile... shout your support for him from the rooftops.

We are facing global war and potential famine for the egos of dark men. No good points to outweigh that for me.
The leader of the free world is threating war crimes by tweet and social media.
There is no mud, there is enough shit and filth to cover the earth right now.
If you want to revel in how warm and cozy the shit is as one of its good points, you are as free as anyone to do so but you'll still be covered in shit to me.

*now that was a bit of rant ;-)

The starting point for the conversation is what persecution is and how to identify it, but you refuse to talk about that. You imply to want understanding, engagement, and so on, but there isn't much you will listen to or respond to at all aside from any agreement someone might have with your positions.

[_Miracle]

I have highly relevant questions but you just talk past me with a laundry list rant, exactly the attitude that gets Trump more support. I honestly believe if everyone who hated Trump as much as you do just could actually see the other perspectives involved, like by actually listening and understanding the other sides, and acknowledge good points, then you'd actually be able to convince people not to support Trump. Ignoring good when it exists, but always acknowledge any remote hint of bad as definitely true is not going to get you in a good place. Its one thing to throw mud and see what sticks at your opponent, but its another to just think that every drop of mud always sticks... that is just plain incorrect.

Prosecution of things that are normally not prosecuted, against a declared enemy, is hardly prosecution and definitely persecution. Do you agree or disagree?

At this moment in time, with all the information that is widely available, if a person has not yet come the conclusion of how destructive and foul Trump is as a leader AND still wants to in any way support him. I'm not the one. I have zero respect for that perspective.
I gave you 1/10th of the laundry list (that YOU asked for) and you called it a rant.

You want serious engagement, as if anyone is under some obligation to address your "highly relevant questions"?
Get some relevant questions.

Meanwhile... shout your support for him from the rooftops.

We are facing global war and potential famine for the egos of dark men. No good points to outweigh that for me.
The leader of the free world is threating war crimes by tweet and social media.
There is no mud, there is enough shit and filth to cover the earth right now.
If you want to revel in how warm and cozy the shit is as one of its good points, you are as free as anyone to do so but you'll still be covered in shit to me.

*now that was a bit of rant ;-)

The starting point for the conversation is what persecution is and how to identify it, but you refuse to talk about that. You imply to want understanding, engagement, and so on, but there isn't much you will listen to or respond to at all aside from any agreement someone might have with your positions.

"The starting point for the conversation is what persecution is and how to identify it, but you refuse to talk about that."
Google it and then google how it used as a political tool.

And that wasn't the starting point for OPs thread. That's where you want to take it.
I think immigrants and transgendered people are actively being persecuted in my country by my government.
When a person becomes a political candidate they are signing up for a certain level of scrutiny. Turning it into victimhood while actively oppressing people is textbook.


"You imply to want understanding, engagement, and so on"

Did I tho?

While it is a good feeling when someone agrees with your point of view, I am accustomed to people not agreeing with mine on many fronts.
There are very few people in this world whose understanding I seek, my own is tricky enough.
If you want to engage in actual political discourse, you may have some reading to do because getting behind one person is some authoritarian simping behavior.


There are plenty of groups that help people leaving MAGA ---> not my purview for the reasons I'm sick of having to re-state because they've been obvious to me for 10+ years. Actually the maga slogan being used in the Reagan era was an indicator of its powerful usage as a form of propaganda.

America has been great from its founding. A 'revolutionary' way for humans to be governed that has yet to live up to its founding ideals of equality and liberty without interference from top down power structures.  

AGAIN: Trump is a magnifying glass to display our shortcomings, the result of a failing power structure  but not "the reason"

Political discourse is required for people to remain free, which is why the ability to engage in it is no longer taught in schools.
Part of the skill required for discourse is sitting with being wrong multiple times over until you get it to the rightest of your ability.

[caroasi]

I have highly relevant questions but you just talk past me with a laundry list rant, exactly the attitude that gets Trump more support. I honestly believe if everyone who hated Trump as much as you do just could actually see the other perspectives involved, like by actually listening and understanding the other sides, and acknowledge good points, then you'd actually be able to convince people not to support Trump. Ignoring good when it exists, but always acknowledge any remote hint of bad as definitely true is not going to get you in a good place. Its one thing to throw mud and see what sticks at your opponent, but its another to just think that every drop of mud always sticks... that is just plain incorrect.

Prosecution of things that are normally not prosecuted, against a declared enemy, is hardly prosecution and definitely persecution. Do you agree or disagree?

At this moment in time, with all the information that is widely available, if a person has not yet come the conclusion of how destructive and foul Trump is as a leader AND still wants to in any way support him. I'm not the one. I have zero respect for that perspective.
I gave you 1/10th of the laundry list (that YOU asked for) and you called it a rant.

You want serious engagement, as if anyone is under some obligation to address your "highly relevant questions"?
Get some relevant questions.

Meanwhile... shout your support for him from the rooftops.

We are facing global war and potential famine for the egos of dark men. No good points to outweigh that for me.
The leader of the free world is threating war crimes by tweet and social media.
There is no mud, there is enough shit and filth to cover the earth right now.
If you want to revel in how warm and cozy the shit is as one of its good points, you are as free as anyone to do so but you'll still be covered in shit to me.

*now that was a bit of rant ;-)

The starting point for the conversation is what persecution is and how to identify it, but you refuse to talk about that. You imply to want understanding, engagement, and so on, but there isn't much you will listen to or respond to at all aside from any agreement someone might have with your positions.

"The starting point for the conversation is what persecution is and how to identify it, but you refuse to talk about that."
Google it and then google how it used as a political tool.

And that wasn't the starting point for OPs thread. That's where you want to take it.
I think immigrants and transgendered people are actively being persecuted in my country by my government.
When a person becomes a political candidate they are signing up for a certain level of scrutiny. Turning it into victimhood while actively oppressing people is textbook.


"You imply to want understanding, engagement, and so on"

Did I tho?

While it is a good feeling when someone agrees with your point of view, I am accustomed to people not agreeing with mine on many fronts.
There are very few people in this world whose understanding I seek, my own is tricky enough.
If you want to engage in actual political discourse, you may have some reading to do because getting behind one person is some authoritarian simping behavior.


There are plenty of groups that help people leaving MAGA ---> not my purview for the reasons I'm sick of having to re-state because they've been obvious to me for 10+ years. Actually the maga slogan being used in the Reagan era was an indicator of its powerful usage as a form of propaganda.

America has been great from its founding. A 'revolutionary' way for humans to be governed that has yet to live up to its founding ideals of equality and liberty without interference from top down power structures.  

AGAIN: Trump is a magnifying glass to display our shortcomings, the result of a failing power structure  but not "the reason"

Political discourse is required for people to remain free, which is why the ability to engage in it is no longer taught in schools.
Part of the skill required for discourse is sitting with being wrong multiple times over until you get it to the rightest of your ability.

Since the way in which Trump handles persecution is his biggest reason for support by a wide margin, I do believe political persecution is actually the starting point for the conversation.

Its not promising that you will seemingly accept whatever Goolog says as your definitions for everything. Goolog bans people from their biggest platform, Youtube, for opposing their political positions. The only thing I notice about Google.com is when I type in the name of the best website on the internet, rainrd.org, they instead take people to other people's websites and will not display that one. Whoever programmed that isn't trying to simply send people to pages that match what they want to search for, they want to send people to the pages they think would be "helpful" to them that are loosely related to what they serached for instead, hoping they won't notice that the searches won't ever take them to just where they wanted to go but instead manipulate them into supporting their poltical alliance websites while keeping opposing content buried in hopes nobody will notice.By looking to Goolog for your information, you will get all the wrong information, and you'll be wrong about almost all political positions as Goolog is. There is a specific reason they abandoned their "don't be evil" slogan.

I can't believe for a moment that when someone types in the specific name of one website they actually meant to go to an entirely different website. it's intentional manipulation.

[_Miracle]

I have highly relevant questions but you just talk past me with a laundry list rant, exactly the attitude that gets Trump more support. I honestly believe if everyone who hated Trump as much as you do just could actually see the other perspectives involved, like by actually listening and understanding the other sides, and acknowledge good points, then you'd actually be able to convince people not to support Trump. Ignoring good when it exists, but always acknowledge any remote hint of bad as definitely true is not going to get you in a good place. Its one thing to throw mud and see what sticks at your opponent, but its another to just think that every drop of mud always sticks... that is just plain incorrect.

Prosecution of things that are normally not prosecuted, against a declared enemy, is hardly prosecution and definitely persecution. Do you agree or disagree?

At this moment in time, with all the information that is widely available, if a person has not yet come the conclusion of how destructive and foul Trump is as a leader AND still wants to in any way support him. I'm not the one. I have zero respect for that perspective.

I gave you 1/10th of the laundry list (that YOU asked for) and you called it a rant.

You want serious engagement, as if anyone is under some obligation to address your "highly relevant questions"?
Get some relevant questions.

Meanwhile... shout your support for him from the rooftops.

We are facing global war and potential famine for the egos of dark men. No good points to outweigh that for me.
The leader of the free world is threating war crimes by tweet and social media.
There is no mud, there is enough shit and filth to cover the earth right now.
If you want to revel in how warm and cozy the shit is as one of its good points, you are as free as anyone to do so but you'll still be covered in shit to me.

*now that was a bit of rant ;-)

The starting point for the conversation is what persecution is and how to identify it, but you refuse to talk about that. You imply to want understanding, engagement, and so on, but there isn't much you will listen to or respond to at all aside from any agreement someone might have with your positions.

"The starting point for the conversation is what persecution is and how to identify it, but you refuse to talk about that."
Google it and then google how it used as a political tool.

And that wasn't the starting point for OPs thread. That's where you want to take it.
I think immigrants and transgendered people are actively being persecuted in my country by my government.
When a person becomes a political candidate they are signing up for a certain level of scrutiny. Turning it into victimhood while actively oppressing people is textbook.


"You imply to want understanding, engagement, and so on"

Did I tho?

While it is a good feeling when someone agrees with your point of view, I am accustomed to people not agreeing with mine on many fronts.
There are very few people in this world whose understanding I seek, my own is tricky enough.
If you want to engage in actual political discourse, you may have some reading to do because getting behind one person is some authoritarian simping behavior.


There are plenty of groups that help people leaving MAGA ---> not my purview for the reasons I'm sick of having to re-state because they've been obvious to me for 10+ years. Actually the maga slogan being used in the Reagan era was an indicator of its powerful usage as a form of propaganda.

America has been great from its founding. A 'revolutionary' way for humans to be governed that has yet to live up to its founding ideals of equality and liberty without interference from top down power structures.  

AGAIN: Trump is a magnifying glass to display our shortcomings, the result of a failing power structure  but not "the reason"

Political discourse is required for people to remain free, which is why the ability to engage in it is no longer taught in schools.
Part of the skill required for discourse is sitting with being wrong multiple times over until you get it to the rightest of your ability.

Since the way in which Trump handles persecution is his biggest reason for support by a wide margin, I do believe political persecution is actually the starting point for the conversation.

Its not promising that you will seemingly accept whatever Goolog says as your definitions for everything. Goolog bans people from their biggest platform, Youtube, for opposing their political positions. The only thing I notice about Google.com is when I type in the name of the best website on the internet, rainrd.org, they instead take people to other people's websites and will not display that one. Whoever programmed that isn't trying to simply send people to pages that match what they want to search for, they want to send people to the pages they think would be "helpful" to them that are loosely related to what they serached for instead, hoping they won't notice that the searches won't ever take them to just where they wanted to go but instead manipulate them into supporting their poltical alliance websites while keeping opposing content buried in hopes nobody will notice.By looking to Goolog for your information, you will get all the wrong information, and you'll be wrong about almost all political positions as Goolog is. There is a specific reason they abandoned their "don't be evil" slogan.

I can't believe for a moment that when someone types in the specific name of one website they actually meant to go to an entirely different website. it's intentional manipulation.

I read books for fun. You should try it.
A basic definition of political persecution from google:


Political persecution is the systematic mistreatment, oppression, or discrimination of individuals or groups based on their political beliefs, affiliations, or activities. Often orchestrated or sanctioned by state entities, it is a key tool for political repression designed to suppress dissent, eliminate opposition, and maintain power.

Forms of Political PersecutionPolitical persecution ranges from subtle, non-violent tactics to extreme violence:Legal/Administrative Actions: Misusing the legal system to file groundless charges, conducting sham trials, restricting movement (travel bans), and seizing assets.
Coercion and Intimidation: Surveillance, harassment, threats of job loss, and forced participation in political activities.
Violence: Arbitrary arrest, detention, torture, enforced disappearances, and extrajudicial killings.
Transnational Repression: Governments reaching across borders to harass, silence, or threaten dissidents and diaspora members in foreign countries.Key Aspects and ContextState-Sanctioned: It is generally a tool of authoritarian regimes, though it can occur in democracies, particularly during periods of high political conflict ("Law of Coercive Responsiveness").
Refugee Status: The 1951 Refugee Convention defines a refugee as someone with a well-founded fear of persecution for reasons including political opinion, forming the basis for international asylum protection.

"Disguised" Repression: Modern authoritarian regimes may frame persecution as legitimate criminal prosecution to hide their actions.
Targets: Individuals at risk often include opposition politicians, journalists, activists, human rights defenders, and whistleblowers. Distinction from Prosecution.
While related, political persecution differs from political prosecution. Prosecution refers to legal charges against political figures that, while controversial, may be grounded in existing, legitimate laws. Persecution implies an unjust, systematic misuse of power to target people for their beliefs, often lacking a legitimate legal basis.

Global Examples and Trends
Historical: The Soviet Union’s "purges," the Nazi regime's persecution of opponents, and the Palmer Raids in the US.Contemporary: Documented cases include severe crackdowns in Venezuela, Egypt, Turkey, and in the post-Soviet region.Transnational: Countries like China, Iran, Russia, and Saudi Arabia have been identified as aggressively targeting diaspora members.Effects of PersecutionRepression often creates a "Punishment Puzzle"—while it can deter immediate opposition, it also increases feelings of injustice and revenge among the population, sometimes driving them to support or participate in violence against the state, according to studies.


Books showcasing political persecution illustrate how authoritarian regimes systematically dismantle freedoms, target dissidents, and engineer societal compliance through fear and bureaucracy. Key works include 1984, Darkness at Noon, and The Handmaid's Tale, offering insights into the mechanics of suppression, surveillance, and psychological control. [1, 2, 3]
Here are key books detailing political persecution:
Fiction & Dystopian Accounts
•   1984 by George Orwell: Examines the absolute destruction of individual thought, surveillance, and historical revisionism in a totalitarian state.
•   Darkness at Noon by Arthur Koestler: Explores the psychological manipulation and inevitable erasure of an individual by a communist party.
•   The Handmaid's Tale by Margaret Atwood: Depicts a patriarchal, theological coup that turns women into state-owned property.
•   Prophet Song by Paul Lynch: Follows a family in Ireland as a democracy rapidly devolves into an autocratic state using secret police and "emergency powers".
•   Kiss of the Spider Woman by Manuel Puig: Explores life inside an Argentinian prison, showcasing the brutality and personal cost of opposing a military dictatorship.
•   Saboteur by Ha Jin: Displays how a normal citizen is trapped by a corrupt bureaucratic and legal system, turning a law-abiding person into an enemy of the state. [1, 2, 3, 4, 5]
Non-Fiction & Memoirs
•   Hope Against Hope by Nadezhda Mandelstam: A first-hand account of living under Stalin's persecution, focusing on the paranoia and repression of artists.
•   The Autobiography of Malcolm X: Highlights state surveillance and structural persecution of black activists in the United States.
•   Do Not Disturb: The Story of a Political Murder and an African Regime Gone Bad by Michela Wrong: Documents how a modern state (Rwanda) uses targeted assassinations against opponents.
•   Predatory States: Operation Condor and Covert War in Latin America by J. Patrice McSherry: Analyzes how secret state terror was coordinated to eliminate political opponents in South America. [1, 2, 3]
Theoretical & Historical Analysis
•   The Origins of Totalitarianism by Hannah Arendt: A foundational text explaining the mechanisms behind ideological terror.
•   Blackshirts and Reds: Rational Fascism and the Overthrow of Communism by Michael Parenti: Investigates the mechanics of fascist and communist suppression



Read Up on Disaster Capitalism (especially The Shock Doctraine)
add
A People’s History by Howard Zinn for another perspective on American History.
To understand how identity is used to divide and control in America top it off with

White Trash 400 Years of Caste in America by Nancy Isenberg


These are results for what are some books that showcase the shock doctrine
Search instead for what are some books that showcase the shock doctorine
AI Overview
The "shock doctrine" refers to the theory that corporate elites deliberately exploit catastrophic events—such as natural disasters, wars, or economic crises—to push through unpopular free-market policies (privatization, deregulation) while the public is in a state of shock.
 Zinn Education Project +1
Here are key books that showcase, explore, and expand upon this concept:
Primary Texts by Naomi Klein
•   The Shock Doctrine: The Rise of Disaster Capitalism (2007): The foundational text that defines and documents the "shock doctrine." Klein details how Milton Friedman's neoliberal economics have been implemented worldwide via trauma, from Pinochet’s Chile to Russia and post-Katrina New Orleans.
•   No Is Not Enough: Resisting Trump's Shock Politics and Winning the World We Need (2017): Klein applies the shock doctrine framework to the Trump era, arguing that constant political scandals create a state of perpetual shock used to push through radical corporatist policies.
•   Doppelganger: A Trip into the Mirror World (2023): Klein explores how political rage, conspiracies, and crises are currently being manipulated in our fragmented media landscape.
•   This Changes Everything: Capitalism vs. The Climate (2014): Examines how the climate crisis is exploited or ignored, arguing for a restructuring of the economic system to combat it.
 Monthly Review +3
Books Highlighting "Disaster Capitalism" and Economic Exploitation
•   The Jakarta Method: Washington's Anticommunist Crusade and the Mass Murder Program That Shaped Our World by Vincent Bevins: Explores how American-backed violence and mass murder (a ultimate form of "shock") allowed for the implementation of neoliberal policies in Indonesia and worldwide.
•   Confessions of an Economic Hit Man by John Perkins: A firsthand account of how corporate consultants manipulated developing nations into insurmountable debt, paving the way for corporate takeover.
•   The Palestine Laboratory: How Israel Exports the Technology of Occupation Around the World by Antony Loewenstein: Details how Israel markets its surveillance and occupation technologies, tested in conflicts, as "battle-tested" to other nations, a form of profiting from crisis.
•   Vulture Capitalism: Corporate Crimes, Backdoor Bailouts, and the Death of Freedom by Grace Blakeley: Focuses on how corporations exploit crises to gain taxpayer money and destroy public goods.
•   The Invisible Doctrine: The Secret History of Neoliberalism by George Monbiot and Peter Hutchison: Examines the rise of neoliberal thought and its impact on policy, often driven by capitalizing on crises.

Contextual and Related Readings

 

Manufacturing Consent: The Political Economy of the Mass Media
 by Edward S. Herman and Noam Chomsky: Explains how media structures create a "shock-resistant" public by controlling narratives, facilitating the "disaster capitalism" described by Klein.

 

A People's History of the United States
 by Howard Zinn: Offers a history of American policy from the viewpoint of those exploited by it, providing context for the systematic inequalities Klein describes.

For cognitive dissonance you could read Mistakes Were Made but not by Me.

[Kazkaz27]

The last comment sort of loses me. It’s a muddy overload — lots of quotes, tangents, and side rants that make it hard to follow what you’re actually arguing.

I do appreciate the reading recommendations (Orwell, Arendt, etc.). They look like solid books. That said, dropping a list and then saying “I read books for fun. You should try it” comes across as trying to claim some moral or intellectual high ground rather than engaging directly.

What exact point are you trying to make with those books?

Are you suggesting that people who support Trump simply haven’t read enough, or that these books somehow prove Trump supporters are engaged in “authoritarian simping”?

What’s the consensus you’re aiming for here?

That these books definitively show Trump is destructive and that his supporters are wrong for seeing political persecution instead of legitimate prosecution?

Happy to discuss any of the books if you want to tie them back to the actual debate.

[_Miracle]

The last comment sort of loses me. It’s a muddy overload — lots of quotes, tangents, and side rants that make it hard to follow what you’re actually arguing.

I do appreciate the reading recommendations (Orwell, Arendt, etc.). They look like solid books. That said, dropping a list and then saying “I read books for fun. You should try it” comes across as trying to claim some moral or intellectual high ground rather than engaging directly.

What exact point are you trying to make with those books?

Are you suggesting that people who support Trump simply haven’t read enough, or that these books somehow prove Trump supporters are engaged in “authoritarian simping”?

What’s the consensus you’re aiming for here?

That these books definitively show Trump is destructive and that his supporters are wrong for seeing political persecution instead of legitimate prosecution?

Happy to discuss any of the books if you want to tie them back to the actual debate.

If you actually read the thread you will see that my last comment starts off as a literal cut and paste search result for the term Caroasi wants to talk about. Since they seem unwilling to do a basic search for the term for themselves, as at least a baseline.

It's a direct response to someone who is not you but YES I think many Trump supporters no longer want the responsibility of liberty. Also most of us Americans don't learn actual history in schools... we think we fight wars to spread liberty and that equality has been achieved.

My government has been corrupt for decades, It serves to profit a few and people can feel it but don't know what to do about it.
Trump tapped into grievance and scapegoating of minorities while marketing his perceived political persecution --> exploiting tools of division and is currently consolidating power in the executive branch as laid out in project 2025. There is no debate for me regarding Trump.

You seem ok with the federal government deciding who should have have rights. Right down to involving themselves in who plays in sports. Good luck with that.
Division is a tool to keep the masses under control.
Do you find comfort that the people you don't think should have rights have been put "back in their place"?
Fighting for other people to have rights that may not pertain to you is how you preserve liberty.


 
One of the things I always felt was the least plausible in Orwell's 1984 (also We by Yevgeny Zamyatin) was the estrangement of people away from loving relationships. That a centralized authority could exact enough control to keep people distanced from each other?
"Inconceivable"


Compassion and empathy is how people cooperate and build things together and now we have someone like Musk who BTW literally help gut the departments who used to regulate industries by spending 100's of millions of dollars in our last election. Musk's says empathy as an exploit... until he was on the verge of tears when his stock took a dip.


The exploitation is being done by the 1% of the 1% and we've been programed to cheer them on.
"The party" who sold people on family values don't even value people.
The industries that profit off of extraction are now in control with very little oversight.
And 1/3 of my country is here ... https://www.youtube.com/shorts/7D2Niq7EMvQ

[BADecker]

^^^ If you keep trying to hold onto the 'system' wealth that is so fleeting and now fragmenting, you're just going to waste time that you could be using to prepare.

[Kazkaz27]

If you actually read the thread you will see that my last comment starts off as a literal cut and paste search result for the term Caroasi wants to talk about. Since they seem unwilling to do a basic search for the term for themselves, as at least a baseline.

I’ve been following. Just trying to understand your stance more clearly.

It’s a direct response to someone who is not you but YES I think many Trump supporters no longer want the responsibility of liberty. Also most of us Americans don’t learn actual history in schools… we think we fight wars to spread liberty and that equality has been achieved.

What exactly makes you think “Trump supporters no longer want the responsibility of liberty”? I think that idea is far-fetched. Personally, I felt like many people were silenced when they experienced the cancel culture of the left.

I’m a history buff. I enjoy learning about our history. I can agree school isn’t a place to learn all there is to know about history and that it may be a bit biased. I’m a big advocate of doing research and looking at various accounts of events in time. We have at times fought to “spread liberty” but there are a good amount of times I’d say that’s not exactly the case. I personally believe there is no such thing as “equality” without ability. Although the idea of equality itself looks nice on paper and in theory.

My government has been corrupt for decades. It serves to profit a few and people can feel it but don’t know what to do about it. Trump tapped into grievance and scapegoating of minorities while marketing his perceived political persecution –> exploiting tools of division and is currently consolidating power in the executive branch as laid out in project 2025. There is no debate for me regarding Trump.

Every government is corrupt. People are flawed, can be bought, manipulated, persuaded and blackmailed. There certainly is a power structure in the shape of a pyramid. That’s always been the case. What people/groups tend to do about it is fight, win or lose in order to climb up or down that ladder.

I think Trump did a good job acknowledging the fact corruption exists or that the system is flawed much like JFK did which resulted in JFK’s assassination as well as several attempts on Trump’s own life. I think what divides us more than Trump is the gaslighting about race, gender, immigrants and equality liberals preach about but don’t seem to practice. I think they invite more delusion and chaos versus credible solutions. That said, we have a system of checks and balances for a reason. A large part of our government is currently Republican but was not so long ago Democrat. So it only seems adequate that the power has shifted sides.

You seem ok with the federal government deciding who should have rights. Right down to involving themselves in who plays in sports. Good luck with that. Division is a tool to keep the masses under control. Do you find comfort that the people you don’t think should have rights have been put “back in their place”? Fighting for other people to have rights that may not pertain to you is how you preserve liberty.

The Bill of Rights constitutes who has rights. You think men should play in women’s sports? I don’t think you can argue about equality or fairness if you think biological men can call themselves females in order to enter themselves into professional women’s sports in order to win championships or break records that haven’t been broken in decades and accomplished by biological women. I’m happy to see more fairness in the realm of sports. The government should never have had to step in such a way but our society is deluded and losing its grasp on reality. I’d argue it’s because we have a culture that’s overly entitled. To put it bluntly, some groups certainly should never come to power and in essence should always be “put in their place”.

Whose rights have been taken away?

One of the things I always felt was the least plausible in Orwell’s 1984 (also We by Yevgeny Zamyatin) was the estrangement of people away from loving relationships. That a centralized authority could exact enough control to keep people distanced from each other? “Inconceivable”

It’s awful to think family is being torn apart because of propaganda, political beliefs, and centralized authority’s remote control. I don’t blame Trump for such division in this country although I can certainly agree that he can be polarizing. I think if you look at Trump and his family he might actually be a good example to follow. He exuberants family strength. Even Hillary once said that Trump’s kids were an achievement.

Compassion and empathy is how people cooperate and build things together and now we have someone like Musk who BTW literally helped gut the departments who used to regulate industries by spending 100’s of millions of dollars in our last election. Musk says empathy is an exploit… until he was on the verge of tears when his stock took a dip.

I think the hate from the left regarding Elon is so misplaced. They once loved him. Then they hated him and Libtards went around keying each other’s cars. The government was overbloated and it’s a good thing to at times reevaluate and cut unneeded expenditures or outdated bureaucracy. That hasn’t been done in decades. Systems are outdated. It was far past due and if the Democrats did it I’m sure it would have been praised by supporters.

The exploitation is being done by the 1% of the 1% and we’ve been programmed to cheer them on. “The party” who sold people on family values don’t even value people. The industries that profit off of extraction are now in control with very little oversight. And 1/3 of my country is here … https://www.youtube.com/shorts/7D2Niq7EMvQ

What did we lose? DEI programs, reduction in the IRS plus a bunch of crap?

I think your sentiment is misplaced and that video is painfully trashy. Your video depicts a few trailer trash no buddies in some type of discussion. Who knows if it's scripted.

Here is a kicker—Elected democrats have proven they dont value people.

Trump highlighted several non-partisan or broadly positive American stories and guests in the gallery, including:

•  A 13-year-old boy named DJ Daniel, a brain cancer survivor who was made an honorary Secret Service agent (fulfilling a dream of his).
•  Families of victims killed by illegal immigrants (e.g., the mother of Laken Riley or similar cases).
•  Medal of Honor recipients or war heroes/veterans.
•  A WWII veteran, a pilot, or other American heroes.
•  Moments celebrating U.S. Olympic athletes (like the men’s hockey team), record military recruitment, or basic
“America First” principles like protecting citizens.

Democrats in the chamber remained seated, did not stand, and did not applaud for these moments.

[_Miracle]

If you actually read the thread you will see that my last comment starts off as a literal cut and paste search result for the term Caroasi wants to talk about. Since they seem unwilling to do a basic search for the term for themselves, as at least a baseline.

I’ve been following. Just trying to understand your stance more clearly.

It’s a direct response to someone who is not you but YES I think many Trump supporters no longer want the responsibility of liberty. Also most of us Americans don’t learn actual history in schools… we think we fight wars to spread liberty and that equality has been achieved.

What exactly makes you think “Trump supporters no longer want the responsibility of liberty”? I think that idea is far-fetched. Personally, I felt like many people were silenced when they experienced the cancel culture of the left.

I’m a history buff. I enjoy learning about our history. I can agree school isn’t a place to learn all there is to know about history and that it may be a bit biased. I’m a big advocate of doing research and looking at various accounts of events in time. We have at times fought to “spread liberty” but there are a good amount of times I’d say that’s not exactly the case. I personally believe there is no such thing as “equality” without ability. Although the idea of equality itself looks nice on paper and in theory.

My government has been corrupt for decades. It serves to profit a few and people can feel it but don’t know what to do about it. Trump tapped into grievance and scapegoating of minorities while marketing his perceived political persecution –> exploiting tools of division and is currently consolidating power in the executive branch as laid out in project 2025. There is no debate for me regarding Trump.

Every government is corrupt. People are flawed, can be bought, manipulated, persuaded and blackmailed. There certainly is a power structure in the shape of a pyramid. That’s always been the case. What people/groups tend to do about it is fight, win or lose in order to climb up or down that ladder.

I think Trump did a good job acknowledging the fact corruption exists or that the system is flawed much like JFK did which resulted in JFK’s assassination as well as several attempts on Trump’s own life. I think what divides us more than Trump is the gaslighting about race, gender, immigrants and equality liberals preach about but don’t seem to practice. I think they invite more delusion and chaos versus credible solutions. That said, we have a system of checks and balances for a reason. A large part of our government is currently Republican but was not so long ago Democrat. So it only seems adequate that the power has shifted sides.

You seem ok with the federal government deciding who should have rights. Right down to involving themselves in who plays in sports. Good luck with that. Division is a tool to keep the masses under control. Do you find comfort that the people you don’t think should have rights have been put “back in their place”? Fighting for other people to have rights that may not pertain to you is how you preserve liberty.

The Bill of Rights constitutes who has rights. You think men should play in women’s sports? I don’t think you can argue about equality or fairness if you think biological men can call themselves females in order to enter themselves into professional women’s sports in order to win championships or break records that haven’t been broken in decades and accomplished by biological women. I’m happy to see more fairness in the realm of sports. The government should never have had to step in such a way but our society is deluded and losing its grasp on reality. I’d argue it’s because we have a culture that’s overly entitled. To put it bluntly, some groups certainly should never come to power and in essence should always be “put in their place”.

Whose rights have been taken away?

One of the things I always felt was the least plausible in Orwell’s 1984 (also We by Yevgeny Zamyatin) was the estrangement of people away from loving relationships. That a centralized authority could exact enough control to keep people distanced from each other? “Inconceivable”

It’s awful to think family is being torn apart because of propaganda, political beliefs, and centralized authority’s remote control. I don’t blame Trump for such division in this country although I can certainly agree that he can be polarizing. I think if you look at Trump and his family he might actually be a good example to follow. He exuberants family strength. Even Hillary once said that Trump’s kids were an achievement.

Compassion and empathy is how people cooperate and build things together and now we have someone like Musk who BTW literally helped gut the departments who used to regulate industries by spending 100’s of millions of dollars in our last election. Musk says empathy is an exploit… until he was on the verge of tears when his stock took a dip.

I think the hate from the left regarding Elon is so misplaced. They once loved him. Then they hated him and Libtards went around keying each other’s cars. The government was overbloated and it’s a good thing to at times reevaluate and cut unneeded expenditures or outdated bureaucracy. That hasn’t been done in decades. Systems are outdated. It was far past due and if the Democrats did it I’m sure it would have been praised by supporters.

The exploitation is being done by the 1% of the 1% and we’ve been programmed to cheer them on. “The party” who sold people on family values don’t even value people. The industries that profit off of extraction are now in control with very little oversight. And 1/3 of my country is here … https://www.youtube.com/shorts/7D2Niq7EMvQ

What did we lose? DEI programs, reduction in the IRS plus a bunch of crap?

I think your sentiment is misplaced and that video is painfully trashy. Your video depicts a few trailer trash no buddies in some type of discussion. Who knows if it's scripted.

Here is a kicker—Elected democrats have proven they dont value people.

Trump highlighted several non-partisan or broadly positive American stories and guests in the gallery, including:

•  A 13-year-old boy named DJ Daniel, a brain cancer survivor who was made an honorary Secret Service agent (fulfilling a dream of his).
•  Families of victims killed by illegal immigrants (e.g., the mother of Laken Riley or similar cases).
•  Medal of Honor recipients or war heroes/veterans.
•  A WWII veteran, a pilot, or other American heroes.
•  Moments celebrating U.S. Olympic athletes (like the men’s hockey team), record military recruitment, or basic
“America First” principles like protecting citizens.

Democrats in the chamber remained seated, did not stand, and did not applaud for these moments.

Yes I see how people felt silenced by a newly woke illiberal left with cancel culture and how that was amplified by the internet and social media. Peer to peer suppression and oppression is another effective tool as a means of control but it is quite a different thing than having your literal existence as a person regulated.
The state and federal government should be regulating industry not us people.

Even if I didn't have transgendered people in my life for whom I cared about, I would still be against things like Kansas law (SB 180) which invalidated drivers licenses for people whose sex didn't match their gender at birth... overnight.

I empathize with genuine conservative thinkers who value tradition.
But for those who bought into the make America great "again" movement? When was that? Because we are one the most powerful countries the world has ever known since our founding.
America first? Our government has always looked out for America's interests 1st.
We have now been made weaker and the world is less safe in this moment than it has been since the end of the cold war.

My governments responsibility is to create stability while restraining itself from violating the pre-existing human rights we are born with.

Our founders built something brilliant and revolutionary but they literally meant: educated, wealthy, white, men.
They were leaving religious persecution and didn't want to be subjugated to a lower status in the hierarchy by the divine right of kings.

All the movements to gain rights since the founding of America have only been a continuation in achieving the stated idea of liberty.
Real history teaches lessons. So we don't have to suffer the same mistakes. It isn't a comfy narrative <--that's propaganda

So what if your or my opinion is unpopular? If you are firm in your beliefs then you take the heat sometimes for the disagreement.

If you think Trump and his family are a good example to follow then that is some next level dissonance I'm not willing to sign up for.
I wouldn't have judged him for his many personal failings on that front but to paint him as something to be aspired to?
Nope. It sets you and me into a wide divide that I'm content with maintaining.
A democratic Republic requires discourse a free 5th estate (since the 4th has sold out to profit/entertainment) AND right/left - conservative/liberal ideas on balance.

If you think Trump is putting anything other than himself first: that's an even wider divide.

[HelliumZ]

Regardless of what is said on the topic, Donald Trump has joined Israel's war by following its lead.
Donald Trump is a hostage to Israel for whatever reason, whether it is personal or in the interests of America. Israel has pressured many past presidents to attack Iran, but Israel has failed, but Israel has reaped the benefits through Donald Trump.
That is, Israel has not only the Epstein file but also some other secret documents due to which Israel is holding Donald Trump hostage. That is, even though Donald Trump is the President of America, he is a puppet of Israel.

[_Miracle]

Regardless of what is said on the topic, Donald Trump has joined Israel's war by following its lead.
Donald Trump is a hostage to Israel for whatever reason, whether it is personal or in the interests of America. Israel has pressured many past presidents to attack Iran, but Israel has failed, but Israel has reaped the benefits through Donald Trump.
That is, Israel has not only the Epstein file but also some other secret documents due to which Israel is holding Donald Trump hostage. That is, even though Donald Trump is the President of America, he is a puppet of Israel.

I think you are correct in thinking Israel has dirt on Trump and many other wealthy and influential people in the Epstein class. They all have dirt on each other. That's how criminal enterprises thrive.

Also with Buckley v. Valleo 1976 + Citizens United in 2010, it pretty much made corruption legal with money being recognized as speech + corporate personhood + Super Pacs.
Many in our government are influenced by money instead of us citizens.

Unfortunately we won't be simply voting ourselves out of this.
AIPAC has incredible influence and some of those politicians are genuinely brainwashed into an Israel 1st mindset.
I actually think it is profit and power 1st trying to re-establish dominance over people, we'll have to decide if that's how it's gonna go.

It's been interesting for me  to start going to demonstrations like #handsoff and #nokings because the range of people is vast.
Republicans/Conservatives/Veterans against Trump, Democrats, Libertarians...Communists who think workers should control the means of production which is ironic because we may be in the last era where we people literally are the means of production: we're just too divided to realize it and too broke to do much about it without putting our financial well being at risk.

[caroasi]

Political persecution is the systematic mistreatment, oppression, or discrimination of individuals or groups based on their political beliefs, affiliations, or activities. Often orchestrated or sanctioned by state entities, it is a key tool for political repression designed to suppress dissent, eliminate opposition, and maintain power.

Forms of Political PersecutionPolitical persecution ranges from subtle, non-violent tactics to extreme violence:Legal/Administrative Actions: Misusing the legal system to file groundless charges, conducting sham trials, restricting movement (travel bans), and seizing assets.

The definition of persecution you offer is certainly one that I also accept.

One way to identify such persecution is that a political enemy will be investigated in a way political allies are not. Edward M. Kennedy had two campaign managers found guilty of criminal campaign finance violations in 1997. Yet Kennedy was not known to be investigated for that. (https://www.justice.gov/archive/opa/pr/1997/May97/213crm.htm). Mitt Romney was clearly accused of this with definite public evidence, and there was no known investigation of Romney. (https://campaignlegal.org/update/secret-election-spending-proliferates-through-shell-companies). Can you explain how Trump was investigated and charged when others have not been without a political motive? The 34 felonies you cite are apparently centered around campaign finance record keeping, the same thing Kennedy and Romney were known to be connected to.

The primary purpose of the law which is to notice who has influence over the politician involved, so this is actually more weak of a case than initially it may seem. The alleged issue is a donation by Trump indirectly to his own campaign, which is totally legal by itself, just not when done through a corporation. The point is, unlike the other cases, this one dramatically lower prospective victim or damages. Obviously we already knew Trump had influence over himself. See how the spirit of the law wasn't violated unlike the other comparison cases?

You're welcome to try and find cases where people were investigated and prosecuted for such a campaign finance violation. Can you find that needle in a haystack? Trump was investigated and prosecuted where all known other people in similar situations are not even known to be investigated in the first place. And this was done by his political opponents! That represents your own definition of persecution, no?

[Negotiation]

A large number of political analysts believe that Trump's actions were not under any pressure but were part of his America First policy. He wanted to reduce Iran's influence in the Middle East and create a new alliance between Saudi Arabia and Israel. He wanted to satisfy a large religious and conservative group of voters in America who are pro-Israel. However, there is no way to deny that much happens behind the scenes in politics that is beyond the reach of the common people. The strong influence of Israeli groups in American politics is a recognized fact.

[_Miracle]

Don't 'cha just love the comment section?


This might be one of the truest things he ever said...
10 years ago when Trump said he could go out on 5th Avenue shoot somebody and not lose his base...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTACH1eVIaA






https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_prosecution_of_Donald_Trump_(classified_documents_case)