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Author Topic: 2012 according to the Mayan calendar  (Read 5140 times)
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December 27, 2011, 03:03:46 PM
 #1

Have watched the movie "2012" months ago. We're almost there. Could this really happen?

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December 27, 2011, 03:13:18 PM
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Have watched the movie "2012" months ago. We're almost there. Could this really happen?
Could what really happen, a movie about a cluster of natural disasters?
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December 27, 2011, 10:42:50 PM
 #3

2012 will happen. Not the end of the world.

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TheHeroMember
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December 28, 2011, 12:42:21 AM
 #4

Have watched the movie "2012" months ago. We're almost there. Could this really happen?
Could what really happen, a movie about a cluster of natural disasters?


Go watch the movie.

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December 28, 2011, 01:32:45 PM
 #5

Have watched the movie "2012" months ago. We're almost there. Could this really happen?
Could what really happen, a movie about a cluster of natural disasters?


Go watch the movie.


Or don't, terrible movie.  And no the world isn't gonna end just cause the mayans didn't make an infinite calendar. 

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TheHeroMember
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December 28, 2011, 03:27:57 PM
 #6

Have watched the movie "2012" months ago. We're almost there. Could this really happen?
Could what really happen, a movie about a cluster of natural disasters?


Go watch the movie.


Or don't, terrible movie.  And no the world isn't gonna end just cause the mayans didn't make an infinite calendar. 

Who knows?

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December 28, 2011, 03:33:32 PM
 #7

Who knows?

Not the myans, thats for sure.

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December 28, 2011, 04:31:24 PM
 #8

Who knows?

Not the myans, thats for sure.

Not the nyans, that's for sure.

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December 28, 2011, 04:49:23 PM
 #9

Have watched the movie "2012" months ago. We're almost there. Could this really happen?
Why not setup a betting pool? Smiley
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December 28, 2011, 04:51:00 PM
 #10

Anyway, it's at the END of 2012.
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December 28, 2011, 11:57:58 PM
 #11

for some it will be the end of the word... this i am certain off. some go, some stay.
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December 29, 2011, 11:54:21 AM
 #12

So if you really believe the world will end, give me all your btc. If the world end, you won't need then anymore, AM I RIGHT?

Guess what,  so far none sent me btc...  Roll Eyes So long for the END OF THE WORLD Roll Eyes
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December 29, 2011, 12:59:59 PM
 #13

So if you really believe the world will end, give me all your btc. If the world end, you won't need then anymore, AM I RIGHT?

Guess what,  so far none sent me btc...  Roll Eyes So long for the END OF THE WORLD Roll Eyes

They are going to need those btc to buy themselves a ticket on the ark! Cheesy

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December 29, 2011, 03:18:35 PM
 #14

So if you really believe the world will end, give me all your btc. If the world end, you won't need then anymore, AM I RIGHT?

Guess what,  so far none sent me btc...  Roll Eyes So long for the END OF THE WORLD Roll Eyes

They are going to need those btc to buy themselves a ticket on the ark! Cheesy

Whats the cost by the way?

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December 29, 2011, 03:31:45 PM
 #15

So if you really believe the world will end, give me all your btc. If the world end, you won't need then anymore, AM I RIGHT?

Guess what,  so far none sent me btc...  Roll Eyes So long for the END OF THE WORLD Roll Eyes

Just put it this way. What if they were wrong and we believed them? OR, What if they were right and we don't believe in them? We were warned, as what the story says. So better prepared than never at all. I'll save my bitcoin rather than giving it to you, this might e my passport to that ark.  Grin




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December 30, 2011, 03:09:43 PM
 #16

Tickets are now being sold at the White House.

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December 30, 2011, 07:31:16 PM
 #17

We are almost there....  Grin

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December 30, 2011, 07:46:08 PM
 #18

2012 is about space weather.


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December 31, 2011, 06:04:49 AM
 #19

I don't think the world will end, however I do believe something will change astrologically.
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December 31, 2011, 10:18:11 AM
 #20

I'm hoping for human-level AI and the singularity. Smiley

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December 31, 2011, 01:23:41 PM
 #21

I hope you know someone called John Connor
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January 01, 2012, 01:39:23 AM
 #22

I hope you know someone called John Connor

Because everything that happens in movies is real...  Roll Eyes
I for one am a huge proponent of Ray Kurzweil's theories on the singularity.

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January 01, 2012, 01:46:40 AM
 #23

Here's my guess as to why 2012 will have a large impact on humanity:

1)  Astrological changes lead to slight gravitational changes in our solar system.
2)  Our thoughts have mass.
3)  Our thought processes will be significantly affected by this change in gravity.  But, since this change will be distributed to everything contained in our solar system ('system' being the key word), we will be largely unaware of this shift due to relative, observable stability.
4)  Slow revolution of human consciousness begins (though I think it would be more accurate to say this change has already been occurring).

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January 01, 2012, 04:04:29 AM
 #24

Happy Year The Last to all. May all your wealth be counted in bitcoins and may they be your only legacy.
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January 01, 2012, 08:51:01 PM
 #25

We are on our way into a great future.

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January 01, 2012, 08:51:56 PM
 #26

Here's my guess as to why 2012 will have a large impact on humanity:

1)  Astrological changes lead to slight gravitational changes in our solar system.
2)  Our thoughts have mass.
3)  Our thought processes will be significantly affected by this change in gravity.  But, since this change will be distributed to everything contained in our solar system ('system' being the key word), we will be largely unaware of this shift due to relative, observable stability.
4)  Slow revolution of human consciousness begins (though I think it would be more accurate to say this change has already been occurring).

I don't have a great sarcasm detector... are you serious or just trolling? Tongue

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January 01, 2012, 09:12:51 PM
 #27

Here's my guess as to why 2012 will have a large impact on humanity:

1)  Astrological changes lead to slight gravitational changes in our solar system.
2)  Our thoughts have mass.
3)  Our thought processes will be significantly affected by this change in gravity.  But, since this change will be distributed to everything contained in our solar system ('system' being the key word), we will be largely unaware of this shift due to relative, observable stability.
4)  Slow revolution of human consciousness begins (though I think it would be more accurate to say this change has already been occurring).

I don't have a great sarcasm detector... are you serious or just trolling? Tongue

It's a serious guess, but of course I'm not saying it's definitive.

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January 02, 2012, 04:57:30 AM
 #28

Idiocracy level will increase in 2012, i guess.  Grin

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January 02, 2012, 05:19:44 AM
 #29

It's not the end of time, it's the end of the age!

We are exiting the age of pisces and entering the age of aquarius.



http://www.accessnewage.com/articles/astro/ageaq1.htm


Watch these:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZgT1SRcrKE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kY8HOx8qLBo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jB4TPZ4UjmM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nnvY991byTU

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January 03, 2012, 07:52:41 AM
 #30


I didn't know that you are an astronomer.

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January 03, 2012, 12:52:16 PM
 #31

That's not astronomy.  It's astrology, astronomy is science and astrology is voodoo. 

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January 03, 2012, 05:26:21 PM
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http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/reality-check/201112/what-you-should-know-about-2012-answers-13-questions
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January 04, 2012, 02:29:23 AM
 #33

That's not astronomy.  It's astrology, astronomy is science and astrology is voodoo. 

Astrologist, yup that's what i mean, the science/study of stars.

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January 04, 2012, 05:16:22 AM
 #34

That's not astronomy.  It's astrology, astronomy is science and astrology is voodoo. 

I'd bet money astrology isn't bogus.

And, I'd bet a lot of it.

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January 04, 2012, 06:12:04 AM
 #35

I'd bet money astrology isn't bogus.

And, I'd bet a lot of it.

Did your horoscope tell you that you would come into a lot of money or something?

Honestly... it's utter hogwash! Nothing more than pompous pseudoscience. There is nothing that astrology explains that astronomy, a proper scientific field, cannot explain with greater clarity and precision, minus all the supernatural drippings.

Astrologist, yup that's what i mean, the science/study of stars.

Astrology is not what you mean.

Astrology is all about crap like horoscopes and predicting effects on the earth caused by the orientation of the stars and the constellations and blah blah blah. As in, 'you are especially fertile on the 3rd tuesday of february because the constellation of orion intersects perpendicularly with your ball sac' ... etc.

Astronomy is the scientific study of celestial bodies, you know... with telescopes, and math, and all those fancy supercomputers.
Astrologists on the other hand have crystal balls, tarot cards and jackasses who claim to have 'psychic' powers.

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January 04, 2012, 12:30:27 PM
 #36

I'd bet money astrology isn't bogus.

And, I'd bet a lot of it.

Did your horoscope tell you that you would come into a lot of money or something?

Honestly... it's utter hogwash! Nothing more than pompous pseudoscience. There is nothing that astrology explains that astronomy, a proper scientific field, cannot explain with greater clarity and precision, minus all the supernatural drippings.

Astrologist, yup that's what i mean, the science/study of stars.

Astrology is not what you mean.

Astrology is all about crap like horoscopes and predicting effects on the earth caused by the orientation of the stars and the constellations and blah blah blah. As in, 'you are especially fertile on the 3rd tuesday of february because the constellation of orion intersects perpendicularly with your ball sac' ... etc.

Astronomy is the scientific study of celestial bodies, you know... with telescopes, and math, and all those fancy supercomputers.
Astrologists on the other hand have crystal balls, tarot cards and jackasses who claim to have 'psychic' powers.


You need to get out more. 

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January 05, 2012, 04:22:12 AM
 #37

I'd bet money astrology isn't bogus.

And, I'd bet a lot of it.

Did your horoscope tell you that you would come into a lot of money or something?

Honestly... it's utter hogwash! Nothing more than pompous pseudoscience. There is nothing that astrology explains that astronomy, a proper scientific field, cannot explain with greater clarity and precision, minus all the supernatural drippings.

Astrologist, yup that's what i mean, the science/study of stars.

Astrology is not what you mean.

Astrology is all about crap like horoscopes and predicting effects on the earth caused by the orientation of the stars and the constellations and blah blah blah. As in, 'you are especially fertile on the 3rd tuesday of february because the constellation of orion intersects perpendicularly with your ball sac' ... etc.

Astronomy is the scientific study of celestial bodies, you know... with telescopes, and math, and all those fancy supercomputers.
Astrologists on the other hand have crystal balls, tarot cards and jackasses who claim to have 'psychic' powers.

Astrology isn't just fortune telling.

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January 05, 2012, 06:56:21 AM
 #38

I'd bet money astrology isn't bogus.

And, I'd bet a lot of it.

Did your horoscope tell you that you would come into a lot of money or something?

Honestly... it's utter hogwash! Nothing more than pompous pseudoscience. There is nothing that astrology explains that astronomy, a proper scientific field, cannot explain with greater clarity and precision, minus all the supernatural drippings.

Astrologist, yup that's what i mean, the science/study of stars.

Astrology is not what you mean.

Astrology is all about crap like horoscopes and predicting effects on the earth caused by the orientation of the stars and the constellations and blah blah blah. As in, 'you are especially fertile on the 3rd tuesday of february because the constellation of orion intersects perpendicularly with your ball sac' ... etc.

Astronomy is the scientific study of celestial bodies, you know... with telescopes, and math, and all those fancy supercomputers.
Astrologists on the other hand have crystal balls, tarot cards and jackasses who claim to have 'psychic' powers.

Astrology isn't just fortune telling.

Bingo.  When you spend enough time looking at the sky, even without a telescope if you aren't presently distracted by all the high tech shit in Western society (live for a few decades in a 3rd world country where there are no city lights clouding the sky), you'll see things a different way.  Mayans, Egyptians, and Sumerians got pretty goddamn accurate with their "astrology" if you ask me.

It's like if I were to say I can't see with my ears.  Ask a blind person.


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January 05, 2012, 07:50:57 AM
 #39

Bingo.  When you spend enough time looking at the sky, even without a telescope if you aren't presently distracted by all the high tech shit in Western society (live for a few decades in a 3rd world country where there are no city lights clouding the sky), you'll see things a different way.  Mayans, Egyptians, and Sumerians got pretty goddamn accurate with their "astrology" if you ask me.

It's like if I were to say I can't see with my ears.  Ask a blind person.



Please feel free to enlighten us, and try to refrain from analogies like "seeing with your ears".  And don't bring older cultures into it, back in that time period astrology and astronomy were linked and almost interchangeable in their usage.  

Quote
At the end of the 17th century, new scientific concepts in astronomy (such as heliocentrism) began to damage the credibility of astrology, which subsequently lost its academic and theoretical standing. Astrology saw a popular revival in the 19th and 20th centuries as part of a general revival of spiritualism and later New Age philosophy, and through the influence of mass media such as newspaper horoscopes.[3]

While astrology may bear a superficial resemblance to science, it is a pseudoscience because it makes little attempt to develop solutions to its problems, shows no concern for the evaluation of competing theories, and is selective in considering confirmations and dis-confirmations


That's not astronomy.  It's astrology, astronomy is science and astrology is voodoo.  

I'd bet money astrology isn't bogus.

And, I'd bet a lot of it.

Also, how do you plan to win a bet proving astrology isn't bogus when astrology itself is a belief system, and can't really be disproven or proven (like religion).  

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January 05, 2012, 05:12:47 PM
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i cant believe i never heard of this wow
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January 05, 2012, 07:28:44 PM
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Bingo.  When you spend enough time looking at the sky, even without a telescope if you aren't presently distracted by all the high tech shit in Western society (live for a few decades in a 3rd world country where there are no city lights clouding the sky), you'll see things a different way.  Mayans, Egyptians, and Sumerians got pretty goddamn accurate with their "astrology" if you ask me.

It's like if I were to say I can't see with my ears.  Ask a blind person.



Please feel free to enlighten us, and try to refrain from analogies like "seeing with your ears".  And don't bring older cultures into it, back in that time period astrology and astronomy were linked and almost interchangeable in their usage.  

Quote
At the end of the 17th century, new scientific concepts in astronomy (such as heliocentrism) began to damage the credibility of astrology, which subsequently lost its academic and theoretical standing. Astrology saw a popular revival in the 19th and 20th centuries as part of a general revival of spiritualism and later New Age philosophy, and through the influence of mass media such as newspaper horoscopes.[3]

While astrology may bear a superficial resemblance to science, it is a pseudoscience because it makes little attempt to develop solutions to its problems, shows no concern for the evaluation of competing theories, and is selective in considering confirmations and dis-confirmations


That's not astronomy.  It's astrology, astronomy is science and astrology is voodoo.  

I'd bet money astrology isn't bogus.

And, I'd bet a lot of it.

Also, how do you plan to win a bet proving astrology isn't bogus when astrology itself is a belief system, and can't really be disproven or proven (like religion).  

"Seeing with your ears" was chosen because that's essentially what happens subjectively.  I don't care that ears are not eyes.  Blind people adapt and they begin to use their ears for spatial recognition.  Do you think thoughts are also non-visual experiences?  I don't know about you, but I can see my thoughts clearly and vividly, especially if I focus on them.  Senses are interconnected.  Hold your nose and eat something; I bet it doesn't taste the same.  Or, notice how people turn down the music in their car when they are looking for addresses.  Why would people do this if hearing didn't influence your vision?

I'm not sure why you brought up religion.  I think you were trying to indirectly suggest that religions are based upon no evidence.  Even if that was true (check out East Asian religions, they are extremely scientific), not only is faith still the common denominator between science and religion -- or astronomy and astrology -- you can never say "prove" soundly with ANY inductive method of any kind.  But, I've had direct knowledge/experience of "God" (for lack of a better word), and I can't prove that to you.  It was self-evident.  The thing about evidence-based beliefs is this:  What one knows he cannot prove, and what one can prove he cannot know.




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January 05, 2012, 07:34:02 PM
 #42

I'm holding an end of the word party in December. But will the world end? Are you fukin kidding me?  Roll Eyes

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January 05, 2012, 07:39:19 PM
 #43

I'm holding an end of the word party in December. But will the world end? Are you fukin kidding me?  Roll Eyes

"World ending" is just a dumb phrase in general  Smiley

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January 05, 2012, 07:43:28 PM
 #44

I'm holding an end of the word party in December. But will the world end? Are you fukin kidding me?  Roll Eyes

"World ending" is just a dumb phrase in general  Smiley
That's a good point. The world won't end for.... I don't know, billions of years? Although, that was post #666 for me. Coincidence?

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January 05, 2012, 07:55:47 PM
 #45

Well, the world could end like this...

Remembering the end of the world
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UGCqcckYvDQ&feature=related
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January 05, 2012, 09:55:03 PM
 #46

i cant believe i never heard of this wow
Do you even own a computer?  This has been in the news for 15 years.. But mostly the past 5 because the date is drawing closer.
Maybe the Mayans just got tired of planning thousands of years of calendars. Tongue

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January 05, 2012, 10:24:41 PM
 #47

Have watched the movie "2012" months ago. We're almost there. Could this really happen?
Could what really happen, a movie about a cluster of natural disasters?


Go watch the movie.


Or don't, terrible movie.  And no the world isn't gonna end just cause the mayans didn't make an infinite calendar. 
actually, that calendar everyone is banging on about - actually is an AZTEC artifact, and not a calendar, either....

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January 05, 2012, 10:48:28 PM
 #48

i cant believe i never heard of this wow
Do you even own a computer?  This has been in the news for 15 years.. But mostly the past 5 because the date is drawing closer.
Maybe the Mayans just got tired of planning thousands of years of calendars. Tongue

It's been in the news for 12yrs...right after Y2K didn't happen and all the doomsayers needed another unfounded fear to spread. 

(for more info read the link in my previous post)
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January 05, 2012, 11:18:15 PM
 #49

I don't know what's going to happen but I know we live in the most interesting times and more than ever is going on week by week in our world. Look up Terrence McKenna's novelty theory if you want to wind yourselves up a bit more.

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January 06, 2012, 12:03:03 AM
 #50

I don't know what's going to happen but I know we live in the most interesting times and more than ever is going on week by week in our world. Look up Terrence McKenna's novelty theory if you want to wind yourselves up a bit more.

From Wikipedia:
"Timewave zero" is a numerological formula that purports to calculate the ebb and flow of "novelty", defined as increase over time in the universe's interconnectedness, or organized complexity.[75] According to Terence McKenna, the universe has a teleological attractor at the end of time that increases interconnectedness, eventually reaching a singularity of infinite complexity in 2012, at which point anything and everything imaginable will occur simultaneously. He conceived this idea over several years in the early to mid-1970s while using psilocybin mushrooms and DMT."


From Swishercutter:

"Hallucinations are not to be trusted." 


We will know in December when they come up with another "correction" that they are wrong...just like all the other "prophecies".  There have been people with the end is near signs for quite some time.


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January 06, 2012, 12:09:48 AM
 #51

I don't know what's going to happen but I know we live in the most interesting times and more than ever is going on week by week in our world. Look up Terrence McKenna's novelty theory if you want to wind yourselves up a bit more.

From Wikipedia:
"Timewave zero" is a numerological formula that purports to calculate the ebb and flow of "novelty", defined as increase over time in the universe's interconnectedness, or organized complexity.[75] According to Terence McKenna, the universe has a teleological attractor at the end of time that increases interconnectedness, eventually reaching a singularity of infinite complexity in 2012, at which point anything and everything imaginable will occur simultaneously. He conceived this idea over several years in the early to mid-1970s while using psilocybin mushrooms and DMT."


From Swishercutter:

"Hallucinations are not to be trusted." 


We will know in December when they come up with another "correction" that they are wrong...just like all the other "prophecies".  There have been people with the end is near signs for quite some time.




While hallucinations are not to be trusted, the relationship between your interpretation of a hallucination and it's effects on your mind/body should be, as this just goes back to self-reflection or introspection.

Whether or not a hallucination is "real" (there are arguments to be made on both ends), it's effects on you are very real in a self-evident kind of way, and you can learn one hell of a lot from this.

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January 06, 2012, 12:13:49 AM
 #52

I don't know what's going to happen but I know we live in the most interesting times and more than ever is going on week by week in our world. Look up Terrence McKenna's novelty theory if you want to wind yourselves up a bit more.

From Wikipedia:
"Timewave zero" is a numerological formula that purports to calculate the ebb and flow of "novelty", defined as increase over time in the universe's interconnectedness, or organized complexity.[75] According to Terence McKenna, the universe has a teleological attractor at the end of time that increases interconnectedness, eventually reaching a singularity of infinite complexity in 2012, at which point anything and everything imaginable will occur simultaneously. He conceived this idea over several years in the early to mid-1970s while using psilocybin mushrooms and DMT."


From Swishercutter:

"Hallucinations are not to be trusted."  


We will know in December when they come up with another "correction" that they are wrong...just like all the other "prophecies".  There have been people with the end is near signs for quite some time.




While hallucinations are not to be trusted, the relationship between your interpretation of a hallucination and it's effects on your mind/body should be, as this just goes back to self-reflection or introspection.

Whether or not a hallucination is "real" (there are arguments to be made on both ends), it's effects on you are very real in a self-evident kind of way, and you can learn one hell of a lot from this.



Interpretations of hallucinations should never be considered valid basis for what is going to happen 40 years down the road...especially when there is no real evidence of it.  At this point I am hoping for a mass extinction...I just hope it culls the herd in a positive way.


edit:  I will also add this http://www.randi.org/encyclopedia/appendix3.html
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January 06, 2012, 01:08:37 AM
 #53

Yes, the end is nigh. The movie is true, and the world as you know it will come to an end in December 2012.

Things you can do now to make the transition:

- Encourage your MPs, Senators and Representatives to put money into Research and the Sciences. We need spaceships and arks urgently.
- Join a religious organisation (if you're not already, if you are, be sure to attend weekly) to prepare your soul for the challenges ahead.
- Be kind to as many people as you can, for in troubling times, the effort you make now to improve the lives of others may save your life then.
- Get to know your community and neighbourhood, as they will go through the same challenges as you.
- Share your knowledge freely and to the world, so that others too may be better prepared. It will be lonely without fellow survivors.
- Remain Calm.
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January 06, 2012, 01:12:31 AM
 #54

I don't know what's going to happen but I know we live in the most interesting times and more than ever is going on week by week in our world. Look up Terrence McKenna's novelty theory if you want to wind yourselves up a bit more.

From Wikipedia:
"Timewave zero" is a numerological formula that purports to calculate the ebb and flow of "novelty", defined as increase over time in the universe's interconnectedness, or organized complexity.[75] According to Terence McKenna, the universe has a teleological attractor at the end of time that increases interconnectedness, eventually reaching a singularity of infinite complexity in 2012, at which point anything and everything imaginable will occur simultaneously. He conceived this idea over several years in the early to mid-1970s while using psilocybin mushrooms and DMT."


From Swishercutter:

"Hallucinations are not to be trusted."  


We will know in December when they come up with another "correction" that they are wrong...just like all the other "prophecies".  There have been people with the end is near signs for quite some time.




While hallucinations are not to be trusted, the relationship between your interpretation of a hallucination and it's effects on your mind/body should be, as this just goes back to self-reflection or introspection.

Whether or not a hallucination is "real" (there are arguments to be made on both ends), it's effects on you are very real in a self-evident kind of way, and you can learn one hell of a lot from this.



Interpretations of hallucinations should never be considered valid basis for what is going to happen 40 years down the road...especially when there is no real evidence of it.  At this point I am hoping for a mass extinction...I just hope it culls the herd in a positive way.


edit:  I will also add this http://www.randi.org/encyclopedia/appendix3.html

Unless you recognize the holographic nature of the universe (i.e. because universal syntax/law distributes to everything inside it, everything contained in the universe is like a holographic image of the bigger picture).  This is why truth can be established through ratio, the root word of rationale.  You can learn a lot about the universe just by observing yourself through self-reflection and metacognition.

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January 06, 2012, 03:06:57 AM
 #55

I only read through the first and last page but has anyone mentioned the whole Mayan end of the world thing is made up? Yes they didn't extend their calendar beyond 2012, but they didn't mean anything by it- it just had to stop somewhere. The mayans have no mentioning of a doomsday in connection to 2012. 2012 will be the same as every other year- people live, die, the world keeps spinning.
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January 06, 2012, 05:10:33 AM
 #56

We'll know once we get there  Smiley

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January 06, 2012, 06:31:58 AM
 #57

This says it all.

http://www.bitcoin-data.com/images/End_of_the_World.jpg

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January 06, 2012, 07:15:29 AM
 #58

Bingo.  When you spend enough time looking at the sky, even without a telescope if you aren't presently distracted by all the high tech shit in Western society (live for a few decades in a 3rd world country where there are no city lights clouding the sky), you'll see things a different way.  Mayans, Egyptians, and Sumerians got pretty goddamn accurate with their "astrology" if you ask me.

It's like if I were to say I can't see with my ears.  Ask a blind person.



Please feel free to enlighten us, and try to refrain from analogies like "seeing with your ears".  And don't bring older cultures into it, back in that time period astrology and astronomy were linked and almost interchangeable in their usage.  

Quote
At the end of the 17th century, new scientific concepts in astronomy (such as heliocentrism) began to damage the credibility of astrology, which subsequently lost its academic and theoretical standing. Astrology saw a popular revival in the 19th and 20th centuries as part of a general revival of spiritualism and later New Age philosophy, and through the influence of mass media such as newspaper horoscopes.[3]

While astrology may bear a superficial resemblance to science, it is a pseudoscience because it makes little attempt to develop solutions to its problems, shows no concern for the evaluation of competing theories, and is selective in considering confirmations and dis-confirmations


That's not astronomy.  It's astrology, astronomy is science and astrology is voodoo.  

I'd bet money astrology isn't bogus.

And, I'd bet a lot of it.

Also, how do you plan to win a bet proving astrology isn't bogus when astrology itself is a belief system, and can't really be disproven or proven (like religion).  

"Seeing with your ears" was chosen because that's essentially what happens subjectively.  I don't care that ears are not eyes.  Blind people adapt and they begin to use their ears for spatial recognition.  Do you think thoughts are also non-visual experiences?  I don't know about you, but I can see my thoughts clearly and vividly, especially if I focus on them.  Senses are interconnected.  Hold your nose and eat something; I bet it doesn't taste the same.  Or, notice how people turn down the music in their car when they are looking for addresses.  Why would people do this if hearing didn't influence your vision?

I'm not sure why you brought up religion.  I think you were trying to indirectly suggest that religions are based upon no evidence.  Even if that was true (check out East Asian religions, they are extremely scientific), not only is faith still the common denominator between science and religion -- or astronomy and astrology -- you can never say "prove" soundly with ANY inductive method of any kind.  But, I've had direct knowledge/experience of "God" (for lack of a better word), and I can't prove that to you.  It was self-evident.  The thing about evidence-based beliefs is this:  What one knows he cannot prove, and what one can prove he cannot know.





Really?  I ask for how astrology isn't bullshit with no analogies and this is what I get?  More explanations of a dumb analogy and some defense of something I didn't even say?   

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January 06, 2012, 08:07:19 PM
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Bingo.  When you spend enough time looking at the sky, even without a telescope if you aren't presently distracted by all the high tech shit in Western society (live for a few decades in a 3rd world country where there are no city lights clouding the sky), you'll see things a different way.  Mayans, Egyptians, and Sumerians got pretty goddamn accurate with their "astrology" if you ask me.

It's like if I were to say I can't see with my ears.  Ask a blind person.



Please feel free to enlighten us, and try to refrain from analogies like "seeing with your ears".  And don't bring older cultures into it, back in that time period astrology and astronomy were linked and almost interchangeable in their usage.  

Quote
At the end of the 17th century, new scientific concepts in astronomy (such as heliocentrism) began to damage the credibility of astrology, which subsequently lost its academic and theoretical standing. Astrology saw a popular revival in the 19th and 20th centuries as part of a general revival of spiritualism and later New Age philosophy, and through the influence of mass media such as newspaper horoscopes.[3]

While astrology may bear a superficial resemblance to science, it is a pseudoscience because it makes little attempt to develop solutions to its problems, shows no concern for the evaluation of competing theories, and is selective in considering confirmations and dis-confirmations


That's not astronomy.  It's astrology, astronomy is science and astrology is voodoo.  

I'd bet money astrology isn't bogus.

And, I'd bet a lot of it.

Also, how do you plan to win a bet proving astrology isn't bogus when astrology itself is a belief system, and can't really be disproven or proven (like religion).  

"Seeing with your ears" was chosen because that's essentially what happens subjectively.  I don't care that ears are not eyes.  Blind people adapt and they begin to use their ears for spatial recognition.  Do you think thoughts are also non-visual experiences?  I don't know about you, but I can see my thoughts clearly and vividly, especially if I focus on them.  Senses are interconnected.  Hold your nose and eat something; I bet it doesn't taste the same.  Or, notice how people turn down the music in their car when they are looking for addresses.  Why would people do this if hearing didn't influence your vision?

I'm not sure why you brought up religion.  I think you were trying to indirectly suggest that religions are based upon no evidence.  Even if that was true (check out East Asian religions, they are extremely scientific), not only is faith still the common denominator between science and religion -- or astronomy and astrology -- you can never say "prove" soundly with ANY inductive method of any kind.  But, I've had direct knowledge/experience of "God" (for lack of a better word), and I can't prove that to you.  It was self-evident.  The thing about evidence-based beliefs is this:  What one knows he cannot prove, and what one can prove he cannot know.





Really?  I ask for how astrology isn't bullshit with no analogies and this is what I get?  More explanations of a dumb analogy and some defense of something I didn't even say?   

I chose to use an analogy because I can't prove astrology isn't bullshit, nor did I actually claim that it wasn't bullshit.  What I said was that I would bet good money that the core principles of astrology are not bullshit, just as I would bet that the core principles of most world religions are not bullshit.  You're asking for objective proof that astrology isn't bullshit but, in doing so, you are negating the fact that there can be no objective understanding without subjective interpretations.  Moreover, you are negating the fact that it is completely impossible to prove anything with science because it is inductive.  In other words, you are asking for something that cannot happen logically.

And, as I am a person from a Westernized culture, my interpretation of astrological alignments will be vastly different than someone who has no telescope, astronomy book, or internet access -- so will yours.  This simply means that my/your means of understanding is different than the means by which other cultures have attempted to understand.  It does not mean my method is better or that I am smarter. 

My point is that just because the modern-day scientific method wasn't necessarily used for astrological predictions, my guess is that it is likely that many of the astrological assumptions made by these cultures are at least fairly accurate because they were committed to, and believed in, their own means of understanding.  People/cultures who seek, observe, and learn for themselves will be far more intelligent than those who memorize some dumb equation or scientific finding that some other guy made.  Most people either believe in the Big Bang or in Creationism.  Why do they believe that?  Because they heard it from someone else.  When people learn independently, they will see patterns, relationships, and correlations that others will not.


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January 06, 2012, 08:32:50 PM
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That's exactly what I was getting at. That's why it's nothing like Astronomy, which is the scientific collection of data about the universe.  Astrology is just an interpretation of that data, based largely on the church.  That's the reason for my mentioning religion earlier, they are very much alike. Of course that basically makes this into an internet religious debate which is one of the worst things ever to do.
http://www.esoteric.msu.edu/VolumeIV/astrology.htm

Quote
If astrology is a tightrope walk between religion and scientific astronomy, then we already have a first definition. First of all: insofar as it views cosmos, humans, and nature as being reigned over and guided by powers and forces from beyond, astrology is religion. All the events in the cosmos and on earth are linked together by an invisible magic bond. Only on the basis of this mysterious magical connection can astrology assume that the stars have something to do with the course of our lives, with our talents and weaknesses.

In this regard, astrology is related to the nature religions. These also assume that nature is inhabited and governed by magical powers, demons, and gods. Like the nature religions, astrology believes in a multitude of gods; it is polytheistic at its core. Each planet and sign of the zodiac is the expression of a particular god or demon. But astrology is also sometimes accepted by religions which know only one creator-god, like Judaism, Christianity, and Islam. Then the many star-gods become angels and demons which are subordinated to the one God and, as such, understood as "instruments" of God.


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January 06, 2012, 09:26:19 PM
 #61

That's exactly what I was getting at. That's why it's nothing like Astronomy, which is the scientific collection of data about the universe.  Astrology is just an interpretation of that data, based largely on the church.  That's the reason for my mentioning religion earlier, they are very much alike. Of course that basically makes this into an internet religious debate which is one of the worst things ever to do.
http://www.esoteric.msu.edu/VolumeIV/astrology.htm

Quote
If astrology is a tightrope walk between religion and scientific astronomy, then we already have a first definition. First of all: insofar as it views cosmos, humans, and nature as being reigned over and guided by powers and forces from beyond, astrology is religion. All the events in the cosmos and on earth are linked together by an invisible magic bond. Only on the basis of this mysterious magical connection can astrology assume that the stars have something to do with the course of our lives, with our talents and weaknesses.

In this regard, astrology is related to the nature religions. These also assume that nature is inhabited and governed by magical powers, demons, and gods. Like the nature religions, astrology believes in a multitude of gods; it is polytheistic at its core. Each planet and sign of the zodiac is the expression of a particular god or demon. But astrology is also sometimes accepted by religions which know only one creator-god, like Judaism, Christianity, and Islam. Then the many star-gods become angels and demons which are subordinated to the one God and, as such, understood as "instruments" of God.



I think what you said is irrelevant.  It's a matter of what level of interpretation of information, not a matter of interpretation vs. no interpretation.  The mere fact that you recognize something as "data" and identify isolated data points as x, y, or z (e.g. by giving them names and/or definitions, categorizing them, etc.) implies that you are already interpreting it as stratified.  Recognizing form in the Universe is just at a different level of interpreting information.

And when did I say Astrology is like Astronomy?  I disagree with your definition of Astronomy, by the way.

Edit:  An analogy is an example of another level of interpretation.

Edit 2:  I'm also wondering how you rationalized talking about religion in on online forum is the worst thing ever.  Keep in mind you are suggesting that astrology, which is related to the thread subject, is also related to religion.

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January 06, 2012, 09:30:18 PM
 #62

Yes, the end is nigh. The movie is true, and the world as you know it will come to an end in December 2012.

Things you can do now to make the transition:

- Encourage your MPs, Senators and Representatives to put money into Research and the Sciences. We need spaceships and arks urgently.
- Join a religious organisation (if you're not already, if you are, be sure to attend weekly) to prepare your soul for the challenges ahead.
- Be kind to as many people as you can, for in troubling times, the effort you make now to improve the lives of others may save your life then.
- Get to know your community and neighbourhood, as they will go through the same challenges as you.
- Share your knowledge freely and to the world, so that others too may be better prepared. It will be lonely without fellow survivors.
- Remain Calm.

I have to note here, that these recommendations are valid regardless of the accuracy of the predictive power of a single, pre-iron age society.

"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."

- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
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January 06, 2012, 09:56:57 PM
 #63

Anyway, here's what NASA has to say about 2012

http://www.nasa.gov/topics/earth/features/2012.html

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"There apparently is a great deal of interest in celestial bodies, and their locations and trajectories at the end of the calendar year 2012. Now, I for one love a good book or movie as much as the next guy. But the stuff flying around through cyberspace, TV and the movies is not based on science. There is even a fake NASA news release out there..."
- Don Yeomans, NASA senior research scientist


Edit:
Quote
Edit 2:  I'm also wondering how you rationalized talking about religion in on online forum is the worst thing ever.
Cause my horoscope said so  Wink

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January 06, 2012, 10:36:55 PM
 #64

Anyway, here's what NASA has to say about 2012

http://www.nasa.gov/topics/earth/features/2012.html

Quote

That was actually really informative.  I had never heard of the planet Nibiru tale but it proposed May 2003.

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January 06, 2012, 11:14:34 PM
 #65

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That was actually really informative.  I had never heard of the planet Nibiru tale but it proposed May 2003.

There's also the Nemesis theory (never confirmed, just a theory)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nemesis_%28hypothetical_star%29

Quote
Nemesis is a hypothetical hard-to-detect red dwarf star,[1] white dwarf star[2][dubious – discuss] or brown dwarf,[3] originally postulated in 1984 to be orbiting the Sun at a distance of about 95,000 AU (1.5 light-years),[3] somewhat beyond the Oort cloud, to explain a perceived cycle of mass extinctions in the geological record, which seem to occur more often at intervals of 26 million years.[4][3] As of 2011, over 1300 brown dwarfs have been identified and none of them are inside the Solar System.[5]

There's also Sedna, which is a real confirmed (dwarf) planet with an unusually large eccentric orbit

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/90377_Sedna

Quote
Barring comets and a handful of small Solar System bodies,[f] Sedna has the longest orbital period of any known object in the Solar System, calculated at around 11,400 years.



Crazy shit out there. 

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January 09, 2012, 02:06:19 AM
 #66

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That was actually really informative.  I had never heard of the planet Nibiru tale but it proposed May 2003.

There's also the Nemesis theory (never confirmed, just a theory)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nemesis_%28hypothetical_star%29

Quote
Nemesis is a hypothetical hard-to-detect red dwarf star,[1] white dwarf star[2][dubious – discuss] or brown dwarf,[3] originally postulated in 1984 to be orbiting the Sun at a distance of about 95,000 AU (1.5 light-years),[3] somewhat beyond the Oort cloud, to explain a perceived cycle of mass extinctions in the geological record, which seem to occur more often at intervals of 26 million years.[4][3] As of 2011, over 1300 brown dwarfs have been identified and none of them are inside the Solar System.[5]

There's also Sedna, which is a real confirmed (dwarf) planet with an unusually large eccentric orbit

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/90377_Sedna

Quote
Barring comets and a handful of small Solar System bodies,[f] Sedna has the longest orbital period of any known object in the Solar System, calculated at around 11,400 years.



Crazy shit out there. 


The sun looks so cute, is it the sun by the way?

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January 09, 2012, 02:16:01 AM
 #67

Those are the orbits of the outermost planets like Jupiter, Saturn, etc for scale. 

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January 09, 2012, 03:29:54 AM
 #68

I don't think nothing will happen.
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January 09, 2012, 07:29:29 AM
 #69

I don't think nothing will happen.

That's a double negative, which means you think something will happen?

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January 09, 2012, 03:08:03 PM
 #70

I don't think nothing will happen.

That's a double negative, which means you think something will happen?


Of course something will happen.  Something happens everyday.  Most just isn't dramatic or newsworthy.

"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."

- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
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January 09, 2012, 07:23:42 PM
 #71

I don't think nothing will happen.

That's a double negative, which means you think something will happen?


Of course something will happen.  Something happens everyday.  Most just isn't dramatic or newsworthy.

Well said !

This 2012 disaster thing is too blown out of proportion. I remember in May 2011 some idiots also claiming the world is going to end or on 11/11/11 etc.

Most likely nothing will happen even if we don't get that asteroid deflector going Smiley
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January 09, 2012, 07:40:58 PM
 #72

we can always just send kevin up to the 'roid to save us ^_^

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January 09, 2012, 08:13:22 PM
 #73

we can always just send kevin up to the 'roid to save us ^_^

What do you mean ?

Who is Kevin ?
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January 10, 2012, 09:08:37 PM
 #74

http://www.seri-worldwide.org/id435.html
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January 10, 2012, 10:37:30 PM
 #75

Have watched the movie "2012" months ago. We're almost there. Could this really happen?
Why not setup a betting pool? Smiley

I'll bet everything I own that it doesn't happen.
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January 11, 2012, 05:58:05 PM
 #76

Just to be clear. The Mayan calendar in no way predicts the end of the world. It is simply the end of the calendar round, something like the new millennium on the calendar we use today.
Even if it did, so what would that mean? Do any of you believe in quetziquatle, the snake-bird? Then why entertain other nonsense?



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