The Crypto Underground Economy

[Akbarkoe]

There are always ways to get out of the way for those who have more power to transact, including in the use of CBDC currencies later, there must be alternatives for underground business people who play much smarter than the government because we have that feature, one of which is like using monero as a tool if you don't have other alternatives, because of that, Monero in some markets is delisted because the government is against coins that have privacy that they cannot trace.

As great as monitoring is there must be something that escapes, the edge at least will not be more like what happens when using sheets of paper.

[Abiky]

It's not just the criminal underworld that uses cryptocurrency, but also those who don't want to fund the state with taxes that increase almost every year. Small businesses are barely surviving in my country. Therefore, entrepreneurs are forced to resort to such measures and only accept cash that doesn't go through the register.

And remember about Venezuela. What happened there? Maduro seized power by force, and after that, the country's residents decided to refuse to pay taxes and make all payments in crypto. The regime received no tax revenue, and the bus driver decided to take radical measures – selling drugs and weapons. This helped him maintain power for several years. What was the outcome? I hope you already know.

True. But if caught, you could be subject to fines or even jail time. It's not worth the risk, imo. Some people decide to do this anyways, just to rebel against the government. To each, their own. Anyways, the name "underground" implies something hidden from plain sight. Therefore, this kind of economy would be considered "illegal".

Criminals will just use what's most convenient for them. Privacy coins help, but they're "haunted" by market price volatility. But without cash, I fail to see how wrongdoers will be able to continue with their activities. Cash can be used offline and its always "stable". It's also "untraceable" (sort of). Maybe in the future we'll get to see privacy stablecoins? That will change the rules of the game. We'll see what happens in the long run.

[maydna]

It's not just the criminal underworld that uses cryptocurrency, but also those who don't want to fund the state with taxes that increase almost every year. Small businesses are barely surviving in my country. Therefore, entrepreneurs are forced to resort to such measures and only accept cash that doesn't go through the register.

And remember about Venezuela. What happened there? Maduro seized power by force, and after that, the country's residents decided to refuse to pay taxes and make all payments in crypto. The regime received no tax revenue, and the bus driver decided to take radical measures – selling drugs and weapons. This helped him maintain power for several years. What was the outcome? I hope you already know.

True. But if caught, you could be subject to fines or even jail time. It's not worth the risk, imo. Some people decide to do this anyways, just to rebel against the government. To each, their own. Anyways, the name "underground" implies something hidden from plain sight. Therefore, this kind of economy would be considered "illegal".

Criminals will just use what's most convenient for them. Privacy coins help, but they're "haunted" by market price volatility. But without cash, I fail to see how wrongdoers will be able to continue with their activities. Cash can be used offline and its always "stable". It's also "untraceable" (sort of). Maybe in the future we'll get to see privacy stablecoins? That will change the rules of the game. We'll see what happens in the long run.

They don't care with price volatility, they have sources of income that can producing more money. Perhaps they use cash for small transaction and when the transaction is big, they will use crypto to avoid tracking although that could not be fully avoid.

Criminals will finds how they transact and methods they use. We as ordinary people don't know for sure but crypto offers them to pay with various coins. When the payment methods changes, criminals will changing their payment and follows what they feels comfortable.

[Oasisman]

If one of the government's main purposes of creating their own CBDCs is to combat illegal transactions, then I don't think they will allow privacy coins to operate completely against their goal. So, there could be a lot of limitations and challenges the privacy coins are going to face, such as delistings from major and local exchanges, and regulatory pressure.

There will always people who opt to choose fiat, simply because it doesn't require complex technical knowledge, and it is widely accepted. Also, syndicates and people in the underground economy knew that if the government pushes this idea through, their transactions will become limited with more cautious, so, they won't stop using fiat as well.

[Fortify]

Let's talk about the underground economy for a bit. We all know governments are keen on launching CBDCs of their own. Their plan is to remove physical cash from existence, to curb criminal activities in the real world. All in an effort to increase surveillance tactics, and gain more power over people's financial life. The underground economy, although "illegal", is what usually makes the world go round. Without cash, the black market and other illicit ventures won't have an anonymous medium of exchange. That's where privacy coins come in. I wonder if they will quickly be adopted by the underworld, or outright rejected for something else?

Do you think the underground economy will be backed by privacy coins such as Monero or Grin in the future? If not, why? Your input would be greatly appreciated.

There are different facets to the underground economy, but the two that really stand out would be a) sanctioned countries actively using the Bitcoin and other crypto networks to move money around undetected, which can be used for all kinds of nefarious activities - places like North Korea and even Russia love the anonymity it gives, plus it allows them to hack into crypto businesses to steal unrecoverable money. Then there is b) which is "mundane" every day law breaking that I'd guess many people do, where they might send payments in crypto which can help them get around tax obligations in various places, which is hard to track unless an auditor is able to follow specific trails like knowing your personal wallet.

[dezoel]

There are different facets to the underground economy, but the two that really stand out would be a) sanctioned countries actively using the Bitcoin and other crypto networks to move money around undetected, which can be used for all kinds of nefarious activities - places like North Korea and even Russia love the anonymity it gives, plus it allows them to hack into crypto businesses to steal unrecoverable money. Then there is b) which is "mundane" every day law breaking that I'd guess many people do, where they might send payments in crypto which can help them get around tax obligations in various places, which is hard to track unless an auditor is able to follow specific trails like knowing your personal wallet.

I would also expect that CBDC is not there to take out cash, that was wrong to begin with, they are just not wanting others to do it. Tether and other companies are doing it and they are getting hundreds of billions of dollars from people.

So a stablecoin made by a government would be used, and all others will suddenly become illegal, and because of that, governments can take your hundreds of billions, no need to pay you interest, just to hold, and that would be great for them.

[Mate2237]

The underground economy will still be going on smoothly whether government reduce Fiat cash and try to introduce cashless policy with the view to making sure that, the underground world is out of cash, is actually dreaming and may not be facing the reality because we have to know that the underground world is been run by people who are intelligent and thinks faster than we think.



It's my believe that the underground world has adopted to this current reality on ground. With changing financial system everyone is going that way including the men of the underground world. Crypto currency is there, wired transfer too is there so with or without physical cash the activities of the underground world will be going on smoothly.

[Abiky]

There are different facets to the underground economy, but the two that really stand out would be a) sanctioned countries actively using the Bitcoin and other crypto networks to move money around undetected, which can be used for all kinds of nefarious activities - places like North Korea and even Russia love the anonymity it gives, plus it allows them to hack into crypto businesses to steal unrecoverable money. Then there is b) which is "mundane" every day law breaking that I'd guess many people do, where they might send payments in crypto which can help them get around tax obligations in various places, which is hard to track unless an auditor is able to follow specific trails like knowing your personal wallet.

Ah, yes. In terms of versatility, crypto does wonders. Criminals and countries evading sanctions will find it useful. However, volatile market prices is a huge issue that needs to be addressed. Especially if crypto is meant to be exchanged for Fiat in the underworld. The underground economy simply can't ditch Fiat altogether. It's necessary because of its stability and widespread merchant acceptance. I guess that's where stablecoins come into play. They will be much more flexible in terms of privacy and freedom than ordinary CBDCs.

Since the plan is to completely phase out cash and replace it with CBDCs, criminals must find an alternative that will help keep the underground economy flowing as usual. Traditional cryptos such as Bitcoin and Ethereum are an option, but privacy coins such as Monero and Grin are better. Many things can happen in the future. Better be prepared for it, just in case.

[Bitcoin_people]

In recent times, many countries around the world are increasingly interested in using online currencies instead of using cash. In this case, crypto coins Monero and Grin are designed in such a way that transaction information is much more secret than the general blockchain. Most people want financial privacy, especially those involved in the criminal world and those who circulate money will always choose privacy. In that case, if they use coins like Monero and Grin, they will never be identified, so in the future these coins may be popular with people and more convenient for their transactions. However, my idea is that privacy coins can be a part of the underground economy in the future, but it cannot be said for sure that it will become a complete foundation.

[CryptopreneurBrainboss]

Do you think the underground economy will be backed by privacy coins such as Monero or Grin in the future? If not, why? Your input would be greatly appreciated.

The underground economy of crypto involves illegal trades and activities and although they aren't something I will encourage but we are living in an evil world already so these are things we should expect as some corrupt people and bad cartel will make use of any advantage they get to power their illegal activities. The coins you mentioned are already being used by some crime organisations and they are getting away scot free without being caught for their crimes. Drugs are being sold on the dark web with privacy coins and some also use Bitcoin but use it through mixers that make it difficult for the transaction to be traced. Although Bitcoin wasn't created for this purpose but I think in the future it will also be used by the underground economy inclusion of the other coins that you mentioned. You just have to accept that that's the reality of things as the world isn't as innocent as we think.

[Cheema02]

In recent times, many countries around the world are increasingly interested in using online currencies instead of using cash. In this case, crypto coins Monero and Grin are designed in such a way that transaction information is much more secret than the general blockchain. Most people want financial privacy, especially those involved in the criminal world and those who circulate money will always choose privacy. In that case, if they use coins like Monero and Grin, they will never be identified, so in the future these coins may be popular with people and more convenient for their transactions. However, my idea is that privacy coins can be a part of the underground economy in the future, but it cannot be said for sure that it will become a complete foundation.

Every country prefer to build a strong industries panel of in main areas and these factories include food, health care and energy sectors and trying to prevent from import. Every government should focused on education, technology and infrastructure so in this way they promote the local business and also then they comes in international competition. But still imports are very important but local products are more beneficial for nation and there countries. Also when companies produce quality products and satisfied it's customers then also the trade of that country automatically improves. if a country imports almost all basic gods then it's impact is very negative on economy and also unemployment increases in that countries because when industries are not working and gods are imports then normal people what's doing. Only those countries who export crude oil and in replace they import unique products they bear the burden of import. So countries should focus on developing industrial structure and also investing in technology sectors of these two sectors developed then it's gives positive impact to economy of that country.

[WillyAp]

he underground economy, although "illegal", is what usually makes the world go round. Without cash, the black market and other illicit ventures won't have an anonymous medium of exchange.

How did you come to that conclusion?
The underground economy is not developing anything.
The dark web did not conquer the world, nor is the illicit trade much bigger than the official world.

https://www.visualcapitalist.com/worlds-12-5-trillion-underground-economy/
Black market males about 13 tr US$ vs the 107 of the official markets. (most countries only contribute their estimates as they don't fetch data).

Yielding Criminals, Bad Actors, and Threat Networks Between $3-5 Trillion a Year in Illicit Wealth

https://icaie.com/2024/03/illicit-trade-is-emerging-as-a-top-5-world-economy-gdp-in-2024-yielding-criminals-bad-actors-and-threat-networks-between-3-5-trillion-a-year-in-illicit-wealth/
 

[Abiky]

The underground economy of crypto involves illegal trades and activities and although they aren't something I will encourage but we are living in an evil world already so these are things we should expect as some corrupt people and bad cartel will make use of any advantage they get to power their illegal activities. The coins you mentioned are already being used by some crime organisations and they are getting away scot free without being caught for their crimes. Drugs are being sold on the dark web with privacy coins and some also use Bitcoin but use it through mixers that make it difficult for the transaction to be traced. Although Bitcoin wasn't created for this purpose but I think in the future it will also be used by the underground economy inclusion of the other coins that you mentioned. You just have to accept that that's the reality of things as the world isn't as innocent as we think.

The problem with Bitcoin is limited transaction capacity. Slow confirmation times and high fees, makes it an inadequate currency for the underground economy. Criminals or wrongdoers need something that's stable and private at the same time. Privacy coins are private, but aren't stable.

There's only one answer for this. And that is privacy-focused stablecoins. I mean, a stablecoin such as USDT or USDC but with enforced privacy. We're decades away from seeing cash diaappear, so don't expect the underground economy to adopt crypto anytime soon.

[fruktik]

Government plan is not to remove cash, the reason why they even have CBDCs is for them to even have a sort of crypto currency that they can control, if they really want to be neutral, they should outrightly adopt Bitcoint or any other cryptocurrency that is decentralized. So I believe the idea of removing physical cash in a bid to curb anonymous medium can be replaced by CBDcs, because at the end of the day the government controls the both medium.

Governments around the world will always be interested in maintaining complete control over the financial sector. They will never let go of the levers of control and pressure. Losing control over the money supply could lead to irreversible negative consequences.

Although, as we already know, there are several examples of alternatives alongside fiat. For example, El Salvador, where Bitcoin is also accepted as a form of payment. Therefore, I see no obstacles to its scalability. Only the government itself is opposed to such an initiative.

[Die_empty]

In recent times, many countries around the world are increasingly interested in using online currencies instead of using cash. In this case, crypto coins Monero and Grin are designed in such a way that transaction information is much more secret than the general blockchain. Most people want financial privacy, especially those involved in the criminal world and those who circulate money will always choose privacy. In that case, if they use coins like Monero and Grin, they will never be identified, so in the future these coins may be popular with people and more convenient for their transactions. However, my idea is that privacy coins can be a part of the underground economy in the future, but it cannot be said for sure that it will become a complete foundation.

Coins like Monero and Grin are not the creation of the government. In fact, the government is opposing the use of such privacy coins since it strips them of the power to control the financial sector. Rather, they are proposing the use of Central Bank CBDCs to enable them to have total control of citizens' finances.

I also don't agree that most people who seek privacy do it because they are engaged in criminal activities. Many of them want to be free from government surveillance and don't want people to know how much they own for security reasons.

[Abiky]

Coins like Monero and Grin are not the creation of the government. In fact, the government is opposing the use of such privacy coins since it strips them of the power to control the financial sector. Rather, they are proposing the use of Central Bank CBDCs to enable them to have total control of citizens' finances.

I also don't agree that most people who seek privacy do it because they are engaged in criminal activities. Many of them want to be free from government surveillance and don't want people to know how much they own for security reasons.

Literally, that's the main reason why people flock into privacy coins. But governments come up with the excuse privacy coins are used for "ilicit" purposes, just to scare away the public from them. After all, governments don't want to lose control.

I believe the underground economy will survive, as it finds ways to stay afloat in the midst of rising obstacles. Criminals will simply use other alternatives in case cash ceases to exist. It's going to take a long time before this happens, so the malicious actors will have nothing to worry about.