2TB or 4TB drive upgrade?

[takuma sato]

My 1TB SSD drive is running out of space and im doing some shopping. Given the ridiculous current prices for both storage and RAM, I was wondering if I should invest in 2TB or assume that due AI capex things will only get more expensive and 4TB SSD would be a good long term buy.

For instance, a drive from a reliable brand like Samsung and Crucial:

2TB: Around $320-$360
4TB: Around $440-$500

At what rate is the Bitcoin blockchain to be predicted to grow in the following years given current events? The key here would be knowing if AI is a bubble or not and prices will drop, or if it will become more efficient and require less space. However due Jebons paradox we may just be getting more AI demand as it becomes more efficient = prices don't really drop to the pre-AI era levels, thus buying now maybe a good idea.

How are node runners dealing with this at the moment?

[stompix]

At what rate is the Bitcoin blockchain to be predicted to grow in the following years given current events?

Higher chances of your 2TB  SSD breaking before you will need over 2TB for a node! Like way higher, up to the sky.
Of course, this is assuming you run only the node on that if you have other stuff then the whole thing becomes personal on what you actually store there and 2TB might now be enough even now.

Now, the important question: how come you can buy a Samsung 4tb for under $500? M.2, right? We're really getting screwed in the EU, it seems.

[philipma1957]

At what rate is the Bitcoin blockchain to be predicted to grow in the following years given current events?

Higher chances of your 2TB  SSD breaking before you will need over 2TB for a node! Like way higher, up to the sky.
Of course, this is assuming you run only the node on that if you have other stuff then the whole thing becomes personal on what you actually store there and 2TB might now be enough even now.

Now, the important question: how come you can buy a Samsung 4tb for under $500? M.2, right? We're really getting screwed in the EU, it seems.

4tb samsung at best buy store cost me 599 but they did  give a 100 dollar gift card.

It was a black Friday in July sale.

It was the evo plus.

The op is better off getting a 2 tb ssd. The block chain will take at least 5 years to pass 2tb

[BitMaxz]

I think I have a similar choice from the above post; 2TB should be enough; it would take 3 to 5 years.
The reason why I chose 2TB is because if you chose 4TB, it would take 8 to 10+ years, and the problem is sometimes without maintaining this SSD, the lifespan might be shorter. That is why having 2TB is enough; at least you can expand again after 3 to 5 years once it's nearly full with brand new units rather than using 4TB that you don't know how long will serve you.

[philipma1957]

I think I have a similar choice from the above post; 2TB should be enough; it would take 3 to 5 years.
The reason why I chose 2TB is because if you chose 4TB, it would take 8 to 10+ years, and the problem is sometimes without maintaining this SSD, the lifespan might be shorter. That is why having 2TB is enough; at least you can expand again after 3 to 5 years once it's nearly full with brand new units rather than using 4TB that you don't know how long will serve you.

if you look below you can see I use 809gb and have over 1.1tb left

1.1 of 2 is 55% and it says I have 56% left

It  took 2009 to 2026 to use 809gb

It will take over 5 years to use 1.1tb left on the drive.

[LoyceV]

At what rate is the Bitcoin blockchain to be predicted to grow in the following years given current events?

It can't grow more than 4 MB per 10 minutes. Realistically, I assume it grows by about 100 GB per year.

How are node runners dealing with this at the moment?

I'm still totally fine having my blocks directory on slow, cheap large storage Even for running an Electrum server.

[ABCbits]

For instance, a drive from a reliable brand like Samsung and Crucial:

FYI, Micron shut down Crucial brand. i believe you'll have hard time if you ever need their customer support after buying Crucial product.

How are node runners dealing with this at the moment?

I still use my old few TB HDD to store all data.

I think I have a similar choice from the above post; 2TB should be enough; it would take 3 to 5 years.

Even on worst case, 2TB drive can last a bit longer than 5 years.

Code:

Growth per year
= max block size * blocks per day * day per year
= 4MB * 144 blocks * 365 days
= 210240MB

It's about extra 205GB per year. https://blockchair.com/bitcoin shows current Bitcoin blockchain size is 762GB.

[stompix]

I think I have a similar choice from the above post; 2TB should be enough; it would take 3 to 5 years.

3 years is impossible!
Worst-case scenario where blocks are filled perfectly with the perfect space transactions, and you would still have over 5 years.

Realistically, based on past blocks for the last 3 years, 1 TB extra will confidently last 10 years.

4tb samsung at best buy store cost me 599 but they did  give a 100 dollar gift card.

600 euros for a 990 PRO and no gift card...

[DaveF]

I think I have a similar choice from the above post; 2TB should be enough; it would take 3 to 5 years.

3 years is impossible!
Worst-case scenario where blocks are filled perfectly with the perfect space transactions, and you would still have over 5 years.

Realistically, based on past blocks for the last 3 years, 1 TB extra will confidently last 10 years.

4tb samsung at best buy store cost me 599 but they did  give a 100 dollar gift card.

600 euros for a 990 PRO and no gift card...

And keep in mind as others have said spinning drives are fine for things like this.
Yes it's slower. Followed by and so what?

Since I tend to use RPi and micro PCs yes I do use SSD / m.2 that is a physics thing can't put in a 3.5" drive.

For everything else:

A wile ago I pulled a bunch of 6th gen Intel machines out of a pile going to e-waste. They are still fine running linux + a node on a 4TB spinning dive. Does it take a while to IBD, yeah. Does it matter? no. And used surplus 2TB and 4TB spinning drives are just about scrap now too. So the only real cost is the $0.20 a pound that you would get dropping one of them off for recycling.

-Dave

[philipma1957]

I think I have a similar choice from the above post; 2TB should be enough; it would take 3 to 5 years.

3 years is impossible!
Worst-case scenario where blocks are filled perfectly with the perfect space transactions, and you would still have over 5 years.

Realistically, based on past blocks for the last 3 years, 1 TB extra will confidently last 10 years.

4tb samsung at best buy store cost me 599 but they did  give a 100 dollar gift card.

600 euros for a 990 PRO and no gift card...

And keep in mind as others have said spinning drives are fine for things like this.
Yes it's slower. Followed by and so what?

Since I tend to use RPi and micro PCs yes I do use SSD / m.2 that is a physics thing can't put in a 3.5" drive.

For everything else:

A wile ago I pulled a bunch of 6th gen Intel machines out of a pile going to e-waste. They are still fine running linux + a node on a 4TB spinning dive. Does it take a while to IBD, yeah. Does it matter? no. And used surplus 2TB and 4TB spinning drives are just about scrap now too. So the only real cost is the $0.20 a pound that you would get dropping one of them off for recycling.

-Dave

my backup drives  are hdd and ssd.

I have a dozen or so 8tb western digital gold hdd's and a lot of ssd's

Dave has dealt with more drives than me. but I can tell you western digital gold tend to last well over 5 years.

and you can leave them turned off in a storage case for years and they will work.

get  it erase it securely

  format it and clone a back up

2tb
https://www.ebay.com/itm/307125022036?
4tb
https://www.ebay.com/itm/336561567665?

and buy a used nvme.2 ssd

this one below is okay

https://www.ebay.com/itm/800519806302?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/257679602111?


now you have to understand I fast search ebay and do not know these sellers.

but I buy from sellers like this often.

and 185 for the ssd plus 65 for the hdd is 250

which is decent with todays terrible prices.

[DYING_S0UL]

4tb samsung at best buy store cost me 599 but they did  give a 100 dollar gift card.

600 euros for a 990 PRO and no gift card...

Life became hard for people with computer because of this AI drama. They are eating toooo much RAM, storage, GPU and everything, effecting the regular users. 

I have one 990 PRO 1TB which I bought for like 100-110$ (back in the days, before AI). And now the same thing costs around 250-300$ (almost 3x at my place).
Another one i own is the, Corsair MP600 PRO NH and same situation as the 990 pro!

which is decent with todays terrible prices.

you guys have way more experience with these stuff (storage devices). Do you believe we can ever get back the old days? Like having a decent price which is not that terrible?

can't say about others, but I have been quite lucky with the timings. the price skyrocketed right after i build my pc. 

[dwyane36]

I think I have a similar choice from the above post; 2TB should be enough; it would take 3 to 5 years.
The reason why I chose 2TB is because if you chose 4TB, it would take 8 to 10+ years, and the problem is sometimes without maintaining this SSD, the lifespan might be shorter. That is why having 2TB is enough; at least you can expand again after 3 to 5 years once it's nearly full with brand new units rather than using 4TB that you don't know how long will serve you.

On the one hand, the only reason to buy an HDD with more storage capacity than is currently considered necessary is if you want to save money in the future. What I mean is that, due to all the hype surrounding AI, new HDDs with 4 TB or more of storage could be significantly more expensive in five years than they are now.
On the other hand, if you buy an HDD with excess capacity now, there’s no guarantee it will still be in working condition five years from now. For example, I have an old 20-year-old HDD that’s still in good condition, and I continue to use it as an additional HDD for backup storage; at the same time, I once had a 2 TB Seagate HDD whose reliability turned out to be not so great. That HDD lasted only 6 years, and then its magnetic read head failed due to a broken RCBO. At the time of the RCBO incident, both HDDs were powered on, but in the end, the older HDD survived the incident, while the newer Seagate HDD didn't. My point is that, in this regard, there’s no way to predict which hard drive will be more reliable in the long run and which won’t.

[takuma sato]

I think I have a similar choice from the above post; 2TB should be enough; it would take 3 to 5 years.

3 years is impossible!
Worst-case scenario where blocks are filled perfectly with the perfect space transactions, and you would still have over 5 years.

Realistically, based on past blocks for the last 3 years, 1 TB extra will confidently last 10 years.

4tb samsung at best buy store cost me 599 but they did  give a 100 dollar gift card.

600 euros for a 990 PRO and no gift card...

And keep in mind as others have said spinning drives are fine for things like this.
Yes it's slower. Followed by and so what?

Since I tend to use RPi and micro PCs yes I do use SSD / m.2 that is a physics thing can't put in a 3.5" drive.

For everything else:

A wile ago I pulled a bunch of 6th gen Intel machines out of a pile going to e-waste. They are still fine running linux + a node on a 4TB spinning dive. Does it take a while to IBD, yeah. Does it matter? no. And used surplus 2TB and 4TB spinning drives are just about scrap now too. So the only real cost is the $0.20 a pound that you would get dropping one of them off for recycling.

-Dave

I actually have a 4TB HDD external (I like external drives for this so I can have a full node in various computers if I need to move and transact something, it's a nice way to carry the blockchain with you) and it gets a beating when syncing the blocks, incidentally around 2023 when Ordinals became a thing, probably because the more complex UTXO sets contained on the blocks, there's all this stuff that gets I/O activity increased for this period, then after Ordinals hype goes off a bit I can notice it picks up some traction again but after 2023 it's never as fast as in previous periods from what I can remember. Eventually I stopped using it and went with an SSD. It's so incredibly slow compared to SSD. Probably a good idea to keep a copy of the blockchain in an HDD because HDD's are better at storing data long term, however they are not great for th I/O activity involved in syncing the blockchain.

[DaveF]

....you guys have way more experience with these stuff (storage devices). Do you believe we can ever get back the old days? Like having a decent price which is not that terrible?...

Yes. During the .com boom of the late 90s there were a lot of things that were just flat out unable to be purchased unless your name was yahoo or google or.....
After the crash you could pick up 1 generation old equipment by the pound before it hit the e-waste place.

This current price insanity for GPU - RAM - HDD although a bit different is going to end the same way.

The biggest issue is going to be the RAM since the RAM that people are using for data center AI is different then consumer / business / server RAM. But once the bubble pops it's probably under 6 months for them to go back to making regular RAM. Drives are easier, a small tweak and you are making normal m.2 drives again.

-Dave

[philipma1957]

....you guys have way more experience with these stuff (storage devices). Do you believe we can ever get back the old days? Like having a decent price which is not that terrible?...

Yes. During the .com boom of the late 90s there were a lot of things that were just flat out unable to be purchased unless your name was yahoo or google or.....
After the crash you could pick up 1 generation old equipment by the pound before it hit the e-waste place.

This current price insanity for GPU - RAM - HDD although a bit different is going to end the same way.

The biggest issue is going to be the RAM since the RAM that people are using for data center AI is different then consumer / business / server RAM. But once the bubble pops it's probably under 6 months for them to go back to making regular RAM. Drives are easier, a small tweak and you are making normal m.2 drives again.

-Dave

yeah and to get an idea of blockchain size growth block 565000 was oct 2019

so just under 7 years the chain is about 962000 blocks

and gb went from 221 gb to 800gb about 580gb more.

so a 2tb drive should last 7 years ie 800gb + 580gb is 1380gb or 1.38tb

if we grow at the same rate we did from blocks 565k to 962k

I would have no fear finding  a few used 2 tb hdds

erase secure
then  format
then back up

and do the same with 1 2tb nvme.2 ssd

you spend under $250 with 3 copies

and very likely last over 5 more like 7 years time.

when 4tb gets cheap buy some but not now.

[ABCbits]

 

--snip--

I actually have a 4TB HDD external (I like external drives for this so I can have a full node in various computers if I need to move and transact something, it's a nice way to carry the blockchain with you) and it gets a beating when syncing the blocks, incidentally around 2023 when Ordinals became a thing, probably because the more complex UTXO sets contained on the blocks, there's all this stuff that gets I/O activity increased for this period,

FYI, Ordinal itself doesn't create any special/unique UTXO. The actual impact is higher total UTXO due to past Ordinal hype.

then after Ordinals hype goes off a bit I can notice it picks up some traction again but after 2023 it's never as fast as in previous periods from what I can remember. Eventually I stopped using it and went with an SSD. It's so incredibly slow compared to SSD. Probably a good idea to keep a copy of the blockchain in an HDD because HDD's are better at storing data long term, however they are not great for th I/O activity involved in syncing the blockchain.

It's because most Ordinal owner never consolidate tons of UTXO they created. https://statoshi.info/d/000000009/unspent-transaction-output-set?orgId=1&from=now-5y&to=now&timezone=browser&refresh=10m shows total UTXO,
1. about 49 million in 2022.
2. about 131 million in 2024.
3. about 114 million when i write this reply.

[LoyceV]

it's a nice way to carry the blockchain with you

At best, I'd carry a pruned blockchain with me so I can access my wallet from my "spare laptop" (a fully encrypted cheap sturdy disposable laptop).

it gets a beating when syncing the blocks

To have chainstate on HDD, you'll need 24 GB RAM and 16 GB dbcache to get decent performance. The slow disk is not a limitation on my server with 32 GB RAM.

Probably a good idea to keep a copy of the blockchain in an HDD

I'm with Linus Torvalds on this:

“Only wimps use tape backup. REAL men just upload their important stuff on ftp and let the rest of the world mirror it.”

― Linus Torvalds

Why create a backup if I can download it again in a (long) day?