We should not rely on centralized privacy providers

[Webutxo]

If it cost nothing to go private online, everyone will be practising it. It's not as simple as we normally talk and not everyone can actually practice it full time. Moreover, if you're not into tech, you'll never understand how to use some privacy tools as a normal internet user. People don't have problem going absolute private online but many can not make use of the tools accurately. It's not as if people don't care but practicing it is not really easy.

You know about privacy and knows about the values of privacy can be important to you and people that sells your privacy. The truth is that many people don't care about the things we say when it comes to privacy. If you check an exchange, you will 10 people on a decentralized exchange and you will see thousands of peopleo in a centralized exchanges. You can't blame them because that's the platforms they are used to by default, they don't even know about the values of privacy online.

There are some people that when you pass through their space and look through their surroundings, they will tell you that you are trespassing into a private property but the same people are on the internet snapping and sharing pictures, they share their emails, they share their account numbers, they even share their home addresses, they do most of these things because they don't know about internet privacy.

[Sanitough]

The real advantage of self custody is the fact that you don’t really have to depend on any third party before you can access your bitcoin. However that freedom comes with its own responsibility too, because it means that as your own bank, losing your seed phrases or failing to properly store them would mean doom for you and there won’t be anyone to reverse such damage. And this is exactly the reason why privacy alone isn’t enough, it’s also crucial to know how to properly store your keys and understand the potential risks and implications of losing them, at least that helps one know the worth of what they’re actually guarding.

That's why one has to first be aware of the responsibilities self-custody implies, and whether or not he/she can actually handle all of them well. If not, the market has other options.

Given the recent controversies about hardware wallets, however, what's controversial is the self in self-custody. How much in self-custody is actually within the self? Not your keys, not your coins. But if your keys are generated for you by somebody else, are they strictly your keys or they also belong to somebody else? If your self-custodial wallet is assembled for you by somebody else, can you guarantee that it's self-custodial? Or somebody else could also have custody over it?

That is no longer how self-custody works because you trust someone for your own keys, so you don't really own the keys alone, someone is also aware of it. With that, there's high chances that privacy will be ruined any time and that self-custody will turn into other custody instead.

Know the real advantages of self-custody first and learn how to manage all its responsibilities. If you think you can't do it, better not continue risking yourself, your funds and your own privacy.

[Darker45]

That's why one has to first be aware of the responsibilities self-custody implies, and whether or not he/she can actually handle all of them well. If not, the market has other options.

Given the recent controversies about hardware wallets, however, what's controversial is the self in self-custody. How much in self-custody is actually within the self? Not your keys, not your coins. But if your keys are generated for you by somebody else, are they strictly your keys or they also belong to somebody else? If your self-custodial wallet is assembled for you by somebody else, can you guarantee that it's self-custodial? Or somebody else could also have custody over it?

That is no longer how self-custody works because you trust someone for your own keys, so you don't really own the keys alone, someone is also aware of it. With that, there's high chances that privacy will be ruined any time and that self-custody will turn into other custody instead.

But isn't this the way things normally work right now? Your wallet may be self-custodial but the keys aren't of your own making. They're generated for you--by your wallet's software, with the help of your OS, or by a firmware. Could it be possible that someone else might gain awareness of it? The Coldcard incident tells us the answer is yes.

Furthermore, while your self has his/her own backup in a self-custodial setup, your keys are also kept by your device. Could it be possible that someone else might gain access to them? The answer is still yes.

In which case, it seems self-custodial wallet doesn't offer absolute guarantee that it's only the self that has control over the funds in it.

[SeriouslyGiveaway]

But isn't this the way things normally work right now? Your wallet may be self-custodial but the keys aren't of your own making. They're generated for you--by your wallet's software, with the help of your OS, or by a firmware. Could it be possible that someone else might gain awareness of it? The Coldcard incident tells us the answer is yes.

If a wallet is close source, it's hard to know and be sure that you are the only entity that own private keys of that wallet.
Even the wallet is source available or open source, if it is a bad wallet and fails to create wallets with enough bits of entropy, wallets you created by it will be only weak and insecure wallets that can be compromised by hackers.

Coldcard incident is a good example of how a wallet with weak entropy can be exploited.

https://learnmeabitcoin.com/technical/keys/hd-wallets/mnemonic-seed/#generate-entropy
https://learnmeabitcoin.com/beginners/security/

[chenille]

Privacy is a costly good and we are good advised to consider our privacy safely. Privacy is a valuable good and services like Wasabi are key to maintain our privacy.
We will always face risk to undergo our privacy like for KYC and different AML resources and our privacy is at risk.

[WhoYouCantKill]

Privacy is a costly good and we are good advised to consider our privacy safely. Privacy is a valuable good and services like Wasabi are key to maintain our privacy.
We will always face risk to undergo our privacy like for KYC and different AML resources and our privacy is at risk.

Privacy is worth protecting, especially in a situation where our financial activities can actually reveal more about our lives than we can actually imagine. That’s why it’s crucial to understand as many privacy tools as we can, as well as their limitations. Many people think privacy is just about hiding our transactions, but it’s way more than that, it’s more about reducing unnecessary exposure of our financial information while equally being away of the potential risks involved.

[Inior]

To be honest true privacy on the internet is Almost a myth
The best we can do is reduce the parties involved and data we share.

This is absolutely true and what was going through my head when I saw the replies. No matter how secured we think we are, our best chances of security would still be at the mercy of a third party which like claims they are on our side whereas we don’t know how their back office operates, or the individual running that.
And the advice you gave stands out to be the best. We’ll be fine if only we reduce our exposure.

[Dareo]

-snip-
Privacy is worth protecting, especially in a situation where our financial activities can actually reveal more about our lives than we can actually imagine. That’s why it’s crucial to understand as many privacy tools as we can, as well as their limitations. Many people think privacy is just about hiding our transactions, but it’s way more than that, it’s more about reducing unnecessary exposure of our financial information while equally being away of the potential risks involved.

Alongside protecting transaction data privacy, another point worth considering is our routine habits while using digital technology. T here are people who use mixers or privacy coins in order to remain anonymous with their blockchain transactions. But one thing that needs mentioning here is that some people do not hesitate to share their huge income earned from crypto or any sources via different social networking websites, Such negligence makes it easy for hackers to identify them and find out the details of their wallets by doing social engineering. That is why it is important to understand where we share our data online and up to what limit it should be shared.

[New Judgement]

Doesn't our privacy end where we begin to associate ourselves with fiat money? On the Internet, observing all security methods, using a fictional virtual identity, VPN, anti-detection browsers, mixers and other tools for anonymity, it is possible to remain who we want to present ourselves to this virtual world. But as soon as transactions that go beyond the Internet begin, such as cashing out a certain amount or transferring money to your cards, then all confidentiality collapses. How do I address these issues so that our virtual life remains private even offline? I don't see any ways, maybe someone can tell me?

I don’t see a way to address this particular issue. So much talk about privacy, but is anyone actually safe for real? Before we even grew up to know what privacy was all about, we already submitted our details somewhere centralized. Either online or to the financial institutions. I doubt if there’s anyone out there that’s so inquisitive about privacy today, that haven’t at some point submitted their information to government institutions. Somehow our informations are already out. You can only try to protect the online, but there’s no fixing for the offline own.

[uchegod-21]

-snip-
Privacy is worth protecting, especially in a situation where our financial activities can actually reveal more about our lives than we can actually imagine. That’s why it’s crucial to understand as many privacy tools as we can, as well as their limitations. Many people think privacy is just about hiding our transactions, but it’s way more than that, it’s more about reducing unnecessary exposure of our financial information while equally being away of the potential risks involved.

Alongside protecting transaction data privacy, another point worth considering is our routine habits while using digital technology. T here are people who use mixers or privacy coins in order to remain anonymous with their blockchain transactions. But one thing that needs mentioning here is that some people do not hesitate to share their huge income earned from crypto or any sources via different social networking websites, Such negligence makes it easy for hackers to identify them and find out the details of their wallets by doing social engineering. That is why it is important to understand where we share our data online and up to what limit it should be shared.

People who do that are only making themselves a joke. Privacy comes with full responsibility. They cannot be relying on centralized platforms to keep their identity hidden when they themselves are exposing what they are trying hard to protect. Their priorities are misplaced.

I don’t see a way to address this particular issue. So much talk about privacy, but is anyone actually safe for real? Before we even grew up to know what privacy was all about, we already submitted our details somewhere centralized. Either online or to the financial institutions. I doubt if there’s anyone out there that’s so inquisitive about privacy today, that haven’t at some point submitted their information to government institutions. Somehow our informations are already out. You can only try to protect the online, but there’s no fixing for the offline own.

We are not safe. Everytime the government through their various institutions and agencies demand for our private details, they assure us that the information collected are safe. Banks do same and all centralized platforms do same too. Now, since they all assure everyone of confidentiality, how then do scammers have users' information to send them scam messages? This is enough to show that we are not safe. If you have any chance to protect your private information, do it.

[suzanne5223]

You make a valid and interesting point. I personally believe totally trusting in the service of a centralized privacy provider platform is just like we ignore one of the solutions Bitcoin was created to solve. I mean BTC is designed to be p2p and only handing BTC to a third party privacy provider reintroduces the exact third party trust problem BTC was meant to eliminate, and if the third-party privacy provider is honest today, they may not be in the next few years to save themselves from the authority.

Using only centralized privacy services always comes with risks especilally when they can be seized by the government, and the operators can be pressured or arrested; all the logs they have become a liability.
This reminds me how people involve/advetise with ChipMixer, Sinbad, and Samourai, hoping they dont have issues with the law once the service is seized.

[mirakal]

To be honest true privacy on the internet is Almost a myth
The best we can do is reduce the parties involved and data we share.

This is absolutely true and what was going through my head when I saw the replies. No matter how secured we think we are, our best chances of security would still be at the mercy of a third party which like claims they are on our side whereas we don’t know how their back office operates, or the individual running that.
And the advice you gave stands out to be the best. We’ll be fine if only we reduce our exposure.

We will never be fully secured if we never stop trusting those centralized privacy providers as privacy isn't their thing, that's for them to compromise. And for people who still blindly believe that trusting that third party is better than going on solo, I bet they really don't know what real privacy is.

However, the only way we'll reduce our exposure is to get rid online, but this kind of thing may be hard for everyone here as everything are made transactions online.

[Somegory]

When trying to maintain a good privacy, we can divide it into 2 major points:

-   Taking steps by ourself to maintain privacy
-   Services to enhance our privacy

Privacy is very important and we have to take care of our privacy by ourselves while if possible, we can use some tools for enhancing privacy. The bottom line is privacy comes from our own practice first, physically and digitally. If we are irresponsible with our practice, offline and online, no privacy tools can protect our privacy.

Erase yourself from Internet.
How to disappear online and become untraceable?
Bitcoin privacy resources.

Bravo, the tools are always present but people don't want to use them right, it's just like how Bitcoin is decentralised by default and people don't care about that part, instead they pass KYC verification moving their Bitcoin around.

Why use something decentralised in a centralised manner? This is why I keep saying that many people don't even understand what they are doing, they are into Bitcoin only because they want to double their money.

Centralised exchanges should be the ones struggling to survive if Bitcoin holders are doing the needful.

[Ojima-ojo]

For me there is nothing like centralized privacy, those stablecoins and the privacy coins that are centrally controlled are nothing near to be call privacy coins, a lot of them are censored, and controlled.


You either have full decentralized coin like Bitcoin, and nothing more than that, let us not put ourselves in a State where we begin to take the world and what appear on White paper to mean anything, since that is not where privacy lies, privacy lies in the decentralized network which is highly expensive most time's.

[abaeze]

Agreed, the most difficult thing in today's world is to use technology while maintaining privacy. But the environment has become such that some people are spending thousands of dollars on it and some people are completely relaxed about it. Even though people know that they should not rely on centralized platforms, they are using it without any backup. If in reality, does the privacy that is being talked about exist in this virtual/real world at all? Because in the case of technology and using Bitcoin, somehow we are giving our identity to someone and comforting ourselves by saying that they will maintain privacy, but in reality everything is an open secret, there is nothing to be said about the so-called privacy.

[WhoYouCantKill]

Alongside protecting transaction data privacy, another point worth considering is our routine habits while using digital technology. T here are people who use mixers or privacy coins in order to remain anonymous with their blockchain transactions. But one thing that needs mentioning here is that some people do not hesitate to share their huge income earned from crypto or any sources via different social networking websites, Such negligence makes it easy for hackers to identify them and find out the details of their wallets by doing social engineering. That is why it is important to understand where we share our data online and up to what limit it should be shared.

Some people feel that using privacy coins or mixers are just about enough to keep them safe online, but the truth is that, it means very little if they keep on exposing or showcasing their wealth online. The moment that hackers and scammers realized who holds a large amount of crypto, they automatically become a potential target, and with the aid of social Engineering and their personal details, they could be easily targeted. Sometimes the weakest point or what we should really concerned about in our privacy isn’t even the blockchain itself but rather the information that we willingly just share about ourselves.

[arwin100]

Alongside protecting transaction data privacy, another point worth considering is our routine habits while using digital technology. T here are people who use mixers or privacy coins in order to remain anonymous with their blockchain transactions. But one thing that needs mentioning here is that some people do not hesitate to share their huge income earned from crypto or any sources via different social networking websites, Such negligence makes it easy for hackers to identify them and find out the details of their wallets by doing social engineering. That is why it is important to understand where we share our data online and up to what limit it should be shared.

Some people feel that using privacy coins or mixers are just about enough to keep them safe online, but the truth is that, it means very little if they keep on exposing or showcasing their wealth online. The moment that hackers and scammers realized who holds a large amount of crypto, they automatically become a potential target, and with the aid of social Engineering and their personal details, they could be easily targeted. Sometimes the weakest point or what we should really concerned about in our privacy isn’t even the blockchain itself but rather the information that we willingly just share about ourselves.

Its quiet absurd, when they are using mixers and then their activities is opposite with that action they made. Since if they keep exposing their wealth online, then they are just wasting their time using mixers or any privacy tools.

Because eventually, people might still traced them that they have huge amount of money in their possession.

If they care about complete anonymity, they should block all means that can give idea to people that they are holding funds. Also better stay low key all the time to avoid any problems.

[348Judah]

I don't know maybe we should begin to trust all these instant exchanges or instance swaps as they may be called, because we don't know which are going to be more reliable for a long time usage and not turn to be a disappointment with a story to cast about scam, one thing that I always suspect about cryptocurrency centralized platform is that you can't be rest assure of their delivery abilities for a long time usage, if they don't want to be a scam, they can be under attack and this could render users fund at risk on them.

[joniboini]

Converting from bitcoin to altcoins does not hide any traces because the Blockchain is still visible to everyone. Unless the conversation is from BTC to XMR

If we're talking about instant swap services, I don't think it will be as easily as looking at blockchain explorers. It's not difficult, especially if chain analysis companies tart collecting which addresses belong to which services, but at the very least I don't think you'll risk having to go through KYC instantly with it. Unless the service you use don't have a good method to swap your coins of course. CMIIW.

-snip-

I think most experienced users know "trust" is easily burned to begin with. Always prepare for the worst case scenario and verify everything before you decide to increase your volume on certain platform. Never go all-in regardless of how familiar you are with the services imo. Especially when you have the option to do everything in batches.

[Ojima-ojo]

Let us distinguish between custodial mixer's which are centralized and none custodial tools like self hosts network when we are talking about privacy in Bitcoin and other decentralized assets. Evaluation of the risks we fund that their are not equal in terms of risks.


ChipMixer and the others were seized based on federal enforcement orders such as the FBI and this happens when either such operators are arrested for criminal charges or on the run and the site have to get seized with all customers datas inclusive.