Online poker without people

[rachael9385]

Elon musk has said artificial intelligence will have its own artificial intelligence in the future which means the present artificial intelligence will definitely copy all traits of humans.

I think that there is a limit to what they can do, biological and technological functions are different, I don't think it is going to be possible for Ai to copy all human traits because. My hypothesis is that Ai would have a higher intelligence than humans but copying all human traits is somewhat impossible.

I think you are correct before Ai there was bots so what ever negative outcomes that happens we have to bare it.

I don't think baring such would be easy because with the use of Ai it's going to take out that fairness in the game, people that are interested in playing poker games online might be forced to go back to land based casinos because the game would no longer require critical thinking to win.

[Awaklara]

However, I do not think that this will completely stop poker or ruin its joy, but due to its excessive use, the confidence of the players may decrease.

Will casinos or game providers make them lose customers? Gamblers will remain calm and confident as long as they are still winning. If gamblers experience a losing streak, they might think they are being cheated. But if gamblers still get moments of winning, in the situation of some losses, gamblers will consider themselves unlucky. Perhaps technological developments and the use of AI in gambling really make us forget how to enjoy the game.

[Showlove01]

However, I do not think that this will completely stop poker or ruin its joy, but due to its excessive use, the confidence of the players may decrease.

Will casinos or game providers make them lose customers? Gamblers will remain calm and confident as long as they are still winning. If gamblers experience a losing streak, they might think they are being cheated. But if gamblers still get moments of winning, in the situation of some losses, gamblers will consider themselves unlucky. Perhaps technological developments and the use of AI in gambling really make us forget how to enjoy the game.

There is an extent someone will make loss in gambling, they will start to feel tired and it is a very common feeling in human once you are not longer getting what you are looking for, but it takes discipline to stay away for that period of time and just watch but those who are not discipline will want to force it even when they know, winning in gambling is not by might or strength but rather it is by luck with some level of discipline, understanding etc. the reason why some people do not stop even on a losing streak is because of the little win they had.

[Grace333]

You keep having mixed reactions, as some will support the use of AI to enhance gamblers' experience when playing poker games, some will also give their own view to condemn the benefits and state one or two reasons why playing poker is no longer enjoyable due to the incidence of AI being introduced, but I know that gambling will remain, and we will still have the opportunity to play based on our own decision and preference for the game we want to play.

The keyword is preference, There are people that would prefer to use Ai and those that would not due to their own personal reasons they might have. This game tests your mental strength and most gamblers play it because they derive entertainment in making use of their initiative, such games makes people think faster and for a lot of people these are the benefits they enjoy and not just about the wins alone. This takes out the fun completely and even if gambling will remain it's not going to be the same way as it has always been.

[BigTarget]

You see one thing that really makes the whole thing interesting is the fact that AI doesn’t need to necessarily predict every single card correctly before it can gain an advantage, what it only needs to do is to make better and informed decisions consistently. And if peradventure, humans also now use AI to counter other AI models, then that would only mean that human skill wouldn’t be important anymore in online poker like it used to be. So the real question should be whether people would still find the game exciting and entertaining to play when they’re no longer sure whether they are really playing with other humans. 

As long as AI is better than your average person, then I am sure that we could make a lot of money with it. So the only way to prevent it would be to counter it with another AI, if you have AI and 8 other people are playing with human information and a human brain, it can never be the same, and the results would favour the AI because of how fast it can calculate these things.

Obviously it is not going to be AI vs AI for too long because, in that case, we are literally just taking humanity out of poker, and just making humans fund the AI's to play each other. Which makes no sense, because at that point we are talking about whoever has the better AI wins; in that sense it is no longer different from whoever is better at poker if we had 9 regular humans as well.

[Hispo]

Even before AI, online poker already had a lot of software that calculated table situations and made decisions about players' next moves. Now, AI's time has come, and it can do more than just calculate card combinations and their odds; it can do much more. AI is highly adaptive, so I believe it can even attempt to understand the behavior of each player at the table: "weak hands," "constantly calling," "bluffing too much," and so on.
And if we recall what Astra has done, all this could turn poker into an AI game without humans.
Or has it already?

That is one of the things which has discouraged me from going back and play poker again online. There just too many people who are not even playing but running their own customized AI with the hope of getting money by doing nothing.

That is why I am very supportive of playing poker against people one can actually see, face to face, on the same table, with no chances of them being an AI.

Sadly, it is more difficult to get a table of real people nowadays than it is logging onto one's account and play against people around the world.

The world is digitalising so we can see the adverse effects here. There are a number of people having multiple accounts and they can still join the same table. Just imagine, how easy it is for them to win that hand because they already know a number of cards and can easily calculate the remaining ones. This is the very first reason why I do not trust online poker. The results are often fake so I would not risk my hard earned money in online poker.

But yes, I still play online poker just for fun. If I have some free time, I would prefer joining a table and have fun instead of looking for earning opportunities. It is really difficult and sometimes impossible to make money in online poker due to the fraudulent activities.

I would have guessed casinos would have implemented some tools and measures in order to prevent people from joining a poker table with multiple accounts, tho?
That is obviously cheating and against the rule of poker.
It is something I have seen myself on other unrelated games, like counter strike, in which a single person is able to connect to the same server and serves as a look out, once the character is killed and can be used to show the location of the remaining players. In order to prevent that, the screen of all players who share the same IP address is obscured/ make blank, so they cannot abuse of those gameplay mechanics.

The same thing should be done on poker, make people who share IP address to be unable to play.

[KTChampions]

Even before AI, online poker already had a lot of software that calculated table situations and made decisions about players' next moves. Now, AI's time has come, and it can do more than just calculate card combinations and their odds; it can do much more. AI is highly adaptive, so I believe it can even attempt to understand the behavior of each player at the table: "weak hands," "constantly calling," "bluffing too much," and so on.
And if we recall what Astra has done, all this could turn poker into an AI game without humans.
Or has it already?

There are probably still a significant number of people among the players, but it is obvious that there are a lot of bots or live operators who play with the help of AI/solvers/other software. Is it possible to play for fun under such conditions? Some people probably can, but personally, I would find it extremely unpleasant, as the feeling that someone was cheating would never leave me. Is it possible to play for profit? That's also true, but now it's both less profitable and more complicated compared to the times when the boom was just beginning and there was a lot of simple human play. For me personally, online poker is dead, and all in all, I have no regrets.

[hedgeh0g]

There are probably still a significant number of people among the players, but it is obvious that there are a lot of bots or live operators who play with the help of AI/solvers/other software. Is it possible to play for fun under such conditions? Some people probably can, but personally, I would find it extremely unpleasant, as the feeling that someone was cheating would never leave me. Is it possible to play for profit? That's also true, but now it's both less profitable and more complicated compared to the times when the boom was just beginning and there was a lot of simple human play. For me personally, online poker is dead, and all in all, I have no regrets.

I agree with you, too; for me, online poker died five years ago if not longer. Even back then, I suspected I was playing against software and bots created by clever programmers using scripts. I realized things would only get worse, as those scripts would keep improving until they became completely undetectable—for instance, by incorporating randomized decision-making times to mimic a real human. On top of that, these bots don't get tired they make optimal decisions by analyzing my data and compiling statistics. I feel that if I were to play poker today, bots and pros would easily beat me so what’s the point? I’d rather play other games of chance.

[Itz-prisigold]

I agree with you, too; for me, online poker died five years ago if not longer. Even back then, I suspected I was playing against software and bots created by clever programmers using scripts. I realized things would only get worse, as those scripts would keep improving until they became completely undetectable—for instance, by incorporating randomized decision-making times to mimic a real human. On top of that, these bots don't get tired they make optimal decisions by analyzing my data and compiling statistics. I feel that if I were to play poker today, bots and pros would easily beat me so what’s the point? I’d rather play other games of chance.

If I'm to be honest, I have never even for once played poker game before.  Although I've seen people playing it but I end up not even having an idea of what is actually going on in the game, so for someone like me I would never knowing if I'm really playing with a human or bot. But according to what you're saying I can understand why you're feeling that way.

Because I don't see any reason why I want to play a game and have some fun, but I'll still have to be worried if I'm actually playing against a human or well programmed software. That will definitely take away the fun  and start making you wonder if it's even worth playing anymore. And with the way AI keeps improving everyday,  I can see why you would be concerned about what the future of online poker might look like.

[Donk1]

​Well it's easy to say what makes poker fun is the fact that it deals with psychology, and for that, you will have to outsmart the person you are up against. But if that was to be altered in any way, basically there would be no fun in it anymore. We all know the massive advancement of AI, so there is nothing impossible when it comes to it perhaps we can all agree that they are often highly sophisticated. So imagine playing against something like that your chances of winning are downed to 2/100. That said, to me the game is only going to become way boring, that's all........

[bhadz]

If the genuine online poker players have realized that there's already in existence of these AIs playing against them and they're having a hard time to win, they'll not pursue it anymore. Quitting due to that will be noticed by these poker sites and they have to decide if this is acceptable or not for their business. While the innovation can't be stopped but if it's bad for their business, they'll need to adjust it for their players to stay. Otherwise, they'll go to the real world poker tables where they're in front of the other poker players and playing against real humans and not AI.

[Su-asa]

That is why I am very supportive of playing poker against people one can actually see, face to face, on the same table, with no chances of them being an AI.

Sadly, it is more difficult to get a table of real people nowadays than it is logging onto one's account and play against people around the world.

I think it's just about preference, some gamblers don't actually mind playing against Ai or computerized program, while this is going to force a lot of people to go back to land based casinos to play with other gamblers face to face there are still those that are going to keep on playing online against Ai. As time goes on it would be difficult to find people playing against other people online, their competitors would be Ai.

[Mr_Brilliant$]

​Well it's easy to say what makes poker fun is the fact that it deals with psychology, and for that, you will have to outsmart the person you are up against. But if that was to be altered in any way, basically there would be no fun in it anymore. We all know the massive advancement of AI, so there is nothing impossible when it comes to it perhaps we can all agree that they are often highly sophisticated. So imagine playing against something like that your chances of winning are downed to 2/100. That said, to me the game is only going to become way boring, that's all........

Let's slow down. Yes AI has advanced to the point whereby it does most and more things than humans ever can. But if a casino replaces human with AI in online casino and does it so well that there is fairness, you wouldn't even tell it's AI.

I don't think it's about AI. But about the casino that wants to implement such. Which they must make sure that there is fairness in the game. When fairness is eliminated, then that is when it becomes an issue that we all will be concerned about. For now let's just hope that it won't be used wrongly by casinos. Because if they do, it will be devastating.

[WhoYouCantKill]

As long as AI is better than your average person, then I am sure that we could make a lot of money with it. So the only way to prevent it would be to counter it with another AI, if you have AI and 8 other people are playing with human information and a human brain, it can never be the same, and the results would favour the AI because of how fast it can calculate these things.

Even if it’s possible that AI can actually make much better decisions than the average players, that still don’t imply that everyone who’s using it would automatically make money, because sometimes in poker, winning doesn’t always depend on making independent logical decisions, but the player’s ability to predict their opponent’s moves and quickly device a counter move, and this isn’t something that possible for AI to do.

[Patikno]

Even before AI, online poker already had a lot of software that calculated table situations and made decisions about players' next moves. Now, AI's time has come, and it can do more than just calculate card combinations and their odds; it can do much more. AI is highly adaptive, so I believe it can even attempt to understand the behavior of each player at the table: "weak hands," "constantly calling," "bluffing too much," and so on.
And if we recall what Astra has done, all this could turn poker into an AI game without humans.
Or has it already?

Personally, I really don't want that to happen, or ever will. To me, that would take away from the essence of gambling; which is that it should be fair, and nothing should appear "manipulated". Isn't any gambling game; including poker supposed to have a random and unpredictable nature ?  I think that is where the fun, and entertainment lies.

I don't know if you are referring to the AI-powered gamblers, or the dealers, but one thing is clear: people will avoid the game if it is no longer as fun as it is. So, we can start to feel it when it is already happening.