US ADAPT Act: Tax Exemption for Stablecoins, But Not Bitcoin?

[BlackHatCoiner]

As for claiming the inflation rates is "fake news"

The inflation rate is not fake news. The basket of goods they choose to represent the rate is truly rising at the rate they represent. The criticism is on the choices of the goods the basket contains, and on measuring a basket of goods as an ultimate manner to measure the consequences of money printing.

A basket of human diet goods like beef, eggs and butter is rising significantly more than a basket that contains highly processed garbage.

Maybe you are talking about that "inflation" that the Illuminati folks talk about that cannot be detected by any actual human being, doesn't change anybody's lifestyle or financial decisions, but... is definitely "there" because it has to be there because Conspiracies?

Is it a conspiracy theory that no young man can buy a house for the same labor years they used to in the previous decades? No, it's evident. What they show you is a basket of goods that goes up at 3% rate, while houses have gone to the roof.

If you measure inflation by how much processed sugar you can buy, you get a different number than if you measure it based on eating a human diet and living in a house, like humans used to do some decades ago. It's all about what you put in the basket.

Poor people don't pay capital gains tax.

Poor people don't pay capital gains tax directly, but they do pay it through the rise of prices by the business owners who do.

[MusaMohamed]

The inflation rate is not fake news. The basket of goods they choose to represent the rate is truly rising at the rate they represent. The criticism is on the choices of the goods the basket contains, and on measuring a basket of goods as an ultimate manner to measure the consequences of money printing.

A basket of human diet goods like beef, eggs and butter is rising significantly more than a basket that contains highly processed garbage.

Is it possible to prove that information, figures in this article are fake?
The purchasing power of the US Dollar over time.

If it is impossible to prove inaccuracy or it's fake, inflation truly exists and affects purchasing power of US Dollar and other fiat currencies. It's fortunate for Bitcoin investors and holders by making purchasing power of satoshi has increased a lot with time.

https://charts.bitbo.io/satoshi-per-dollar/

[legiteum]

As for claiming the inflation rates is "fake news"

The inflation rate is not fake news. The basket of goods they choose to represent the rate is truly rising at the rate they represent. The criticism is on the choices of the goods the basket contains, and on measuring a basket of goods as an ultimate manner to measure the consequences of money printing.

A basket of human diet goods like beef, eggs and butter is rising significantly more than a basket that contains highly processed garbage.

Got it. Can you show is the data of the exact items that have gone up more than the stated inflation rate, and then also show the volume at which these goods are purchased by Americans in the last 12 months, and then average that out with prices across the rest of the economy? If you are so certain that this massive inflation--which none of us Americans can seem to feel--exists, then surely there must be a lot of evidence somewhere, right?

Also, do you understand that those "processed foods" are made out of... the basic ingredients that you are saying have gone up much more than inflation?

It's particularly amazing that something as complex as a new car, made from thousands of parts sourced from all over the world and made from thousands of raw materials, and touching thousands of aspects of our economy like shipping, sales, support and so on--hasn't gone up in price in the way you are saying it should have gone up. How did they do that? How come a new car hasn't doubled in price in the last two years?

Maybe you are talking about that "inflation" that the Illuminati folks talk about that cannot be detected by any actual human being, doesn't change anybody's lifestyle or financial decisions, but... is definitely "there" because it has to be there because Conspiracies?

Is it a conspiracy theory that no young man can buy a house for the same labor years they used to in the previous decades? No, it's evident. What they show you is a basket of goods that goes up at 3% rate, while houses have gone to the roof.

Nope. The official inflation rates take into account the price of housing, so that's not it.

If you measure inflation by how much processed sugar you can buy, [...]

If you pick one specific anecdotal item then you will get complete bullshit. Beef has gone up in the USA in the last two years because lots of cows got sick, not because of a conspiracy by the jews. Eggs on the other hand have drastically dropped in price.

Bitcoin, for instance, has drastically dropped in the last 12 months on a USD basis.  

You have to average everything out to get a true picture of the prices that consumers actually feel in their real lives...

Poor people don't pay capital gains tax.

Poor people don't pay capital gains tax directly, but they do pay it through the rise of prices by the business owners who do.

ROFL. Yes, that's the oldest argument for rich people paying no taxes alright!  

There's no reason to get into this argument here--that rich people shouldn't pay taxes--but suffice it to say that such a law will never pass any jurisdiction that is still a democracy... anywhere.  

It's fortunate for Bitcoin investors and holders by making purchasing power of satoshi has increased a lot with time.

https://charts.bitbo.io/satoshi-per-dollar/

According to that chart Bitcoin buys me far less than it did 12 months ago. Meanwhile NVDA has gone up 25% during the same period.

If you cherry-pick your timeframe you can make any investment look amazing.

Also, if the above poster is correct in saying that USD inflation numbers are wrong, then that chart is wrong too since it's based on USD.

[MisFoxie]

For example, you purchased $1000 worth of Bitcoin and after several months, its value rises to $1500.. now you purchase an item, for this example let's use a laptop worth $1000.. although you did not exchange your Bitcoin for cash but since you bought something with it, you will need to pay capital gains tax.

When you buy an asset with cash you don't trigger a capital gains tax but whenever the value of that asset increases and you sell it the government will impose a tax on the profit. Similarly when Bitcoin is sold at a higher price than it was bought for the government imposes a tax.

When you don't sell it but directly buy something else with it you still have to pay tax just like selling it because they will convert the value of your Bitcoin into fiat according to the market price, then impose tax on the profit according to your buy price and sell price.

So basically this is done so that no one can avoid taxes by using loopholes. Since usdt is pegged to fiat there is no profit from holding it and you don't have to pay taxes.

[AVE5]

There's this irregular saying that only those which includes individuals, institutions or governments that finds time to create avenues of promoting bitcoin adoptions but yes, that is not true because US being having Bitcoin for reserve has not really shown that attributes, maybe it's because the proposed from the Trump government hasn't been approved.
I also think that there's always going to be exercise of politics around bitcoin where the authorities has role to play.
Hopefully, because bitcoin isn't a traditional finance, not everyone that are going to be convenient with it and countries that doesn't upport it'll always build stricter regulations along.

[Botnake]

For example, you purchased $1000 worth of Bitcoin and after several months, its value rises to $1500.. now you purchase an item, for this example let's use a laptop worth $1000.. although you did not exchange your Bitcoin for cash but since you bought something with it, you will need to pay capital gains tax.

When you buy an asset with cash you don't trigger a capital gains tax but whenever the value of that asset increases and you sell it the government will impose a tax on the profit. Similarly when Bitcoin is sold at a higher price than it was bought for the government imposes a tax.

When you don't sell it but directly buy something else with it you still have to pay tax just like selling it because they will convert the value of your Bitcoin into fiat according to the market price, then impose tax on the profit according to your buy price and sell price.

So basically this is done so that no one can avoid taxes by using loopholes. Since usdt is pegged to fiat there is no profit from holding it and you don't have to pay taxes.

you just explained more what was already been explained. 

[BlackHatCoiner]

Got it. Can you show is the data of the exact items that have gone up more than the stated inflation rate, and then also show the volume at which these goods are purchased by Americans in the last 12 months, and then average that out with prices across the rest of the economy?

Here's a ChatGPT reply about how much beef has increased significantly more in price than the basket of goods they report: https://chatgpt.com/share/6ad47edb-3468-83eb-8f91-3be199ff4bcd.

No, I do not know the volume at which beef is purchased by Americans in the last year, nor do I care really. Most people nowadays are sugar addicts.

Nope. The official inflation rates take into account the price of housing, so that's not it.

If I include a house that rose by 100% in price at the same basket with Cheetos that only rose 10%, then inflation is mild and there is progress! Fiat economics in a nutshell.

Beef has gone up in the USA in the last two years because lots of cows got sick, not because of a conspiracy by the jews.

Beef has gone up, because of the rancher's expenses going up dramatically because of inflation.

You have to average everything out to get a true picture of the prices that consumers actually feel in their real lives...

The problem is that the majority of the world has been tricked into placing junk ultra-processed sugar as a big part of their diet, whose supply is much less reactive to inflation. For example, for the ranch to produce the same beef, expenses increase way more than in comparison with the Cheetos factory to produce the same supply of garbage. This tricks people into thinking that inflation is mild, because the basket of goods contains mostly garbage like sugar and hydrocarbons.

The people living on a human diet that consists of food that does not slowly kill them experience much more inflation than the sugar addicts.

[legiteum]

Got it. Can you show is the data of the exact items that have gone up more than the stated inflation rate, and then also show the volume at which these goods are purchased by Americans in the last 12 months, and then average that out with prices across the rest of the economy?

Here's a ChatGPT reply about how much beef has increased significantly more in price than the basket of goods they report: https://chatgpt.com/share/6ad47edb-3468-83eb-8f91-3be199ff4bcd.

Yes, as I mentioned, the cows got sick, which has increased the price of beef temporarily in the USA and elsewhere.

No, I do not know the volume at which beef is purchased by Americans in the last year, nor do I care really. Most people nowadays are sugar addicts.

In other words, you don't want to know any relevant facts to back up the assertions you've applied from your Ayn Rand books.

Nope. The official inflation rates take into account the price of housing, so that's not it.

If I include a house that rose by 100% in price at the same basket with Cheetos that only rose 10%, then inflation is mild and there is progress! Fiat economics in a nutshell.

You are making up numbers out of thin air to support your assertions now.

Beef has gone up in the USA in the last two years because lots of cows got sick, not because of a conspiracy by the jews.

Beef has gone up, because of the rancher's expenses going up dramatically because of inflation.

Can you offer the evidence for that? And while you are at it, compare those effects to the disease issues ranchers are having?

Or are you just making stuff up again in order to make your argument align with the abstractions in your Ayn Rand books?

The problem is that the majority of the world has been tricked into placing junk ultra-processed sugar as a big part of their diet, whose supply is much less reactive to inflation. For example, for the ranch to produce the same beef, expenses increase way more than in comparison with the Cheetos factory to produce the same supply of garbage. This tricks people into thinking that inflation is mild, because the basket of goods contains mostly garbage like sugar and hydrocarbons.

The people living on a human diet that consists of food that does not slowly kill them experience much more inflation than the sugar addicts.

Um, beef slowly kills you. Ever heard of cholesterol?

But anyhow, you have retreated to stating that there's only higher inflation for food you consider more healthy. Good progress, but food itself is only a small portion of the expense picture for average Americans. There are other things like housing, energy, transportation and health care to consider. All of those things have gone up on a USD basis in the last 20 years, and if you average them all it comes to... the numbers that the US government puts out for our inflation rate.

The US inflation rate is not "fake news", nor could it be since markets rely on this data. Trump would absolutely love to fake this number the other way and make it smaller, but he knows he can't because markets will know it's fake and it will make things much worse for him, since the lack of confidence in the numbers will screw up the markets for stocks (and Bitcoin too for that matter).

And since the inflation rate is not fake news, then:

1. The price of Bitcoin does not correlate, in any way, with US inflation, and is entirely unrelated to it.

2. The "tax" levied at rich people when they pay capital gains tax on assets that merely keep up with inflation is a very modest one--especially compared to gains they make on their investments themselves. US stock portfolios that have gone up 10% in the last three years because of USD inflation have often gone up 100% because of the stock market. People who timed the Bitcoin market perfectly and make 10x gains in the last five years will see perhaps 1% of their gains being caused by inflation and 99% of their gains caused by their lucky timing of the market.

In the US and elsewhere we tax people if they successfully make money from their investments. We don't tax people who make zero on a USD basis. The US ADAPT act is simply codifying that for instruments that by definition will not change on a USD basis, saving everybody lots of paperwork. It is not a conspiracy against Bitcoin, or a conspiracy by the Illuminati to control our minds.

[mirakal]

People who timed the Bitcoin market perfectly and make 10x gains in the last five years will see perhaps 1% of their gains being caused by inflation and 99% of their gains caused by their lucky timing of the market.

I don't think you can conclude that Bitcoin's price is not entirely related to inflation just because it doesn't move with the inflation rate. That's a bad assumption.

Also that 1% of Bitcoin's gains came from inflation while 99% came from market timing. I'm curious how you arrived at those figures?
Can you support them with actual calculations?

[hd49728]

I don't think you can conclude that Bitcoin's price is not entirely related to inflation just because it doesn't move with the inflation rate. That's a bad assumption.

Also that 1% of Bitcoin's gains came from inflation while 99% came from market timing. I'm curious how you arrived at those figures?
Can you support them with actual calculations?

Gold and Bitcoin have their prices rising up because of many things, from inflation of fiat currencies, decreasing purchasing power of fiat currencies, and increase of gold value and Bitcoin value. Gold and Bitcoin have likely double effect, from their own value and price growths plus effect from fiat currency inflation and decrease of its purchasing power.

Gold and Bitcoin have different market cycles so if timing gold market or Bitcoin market, sometimes there will be no convergence between fiat currency inflation, latest money printing and gold / Bitcoin price trend.

[Hypnosis00]

from inflation of fiat currencies,

cause

decreasing purchasing power of fiat currencies,

effect.  

[legiteum]

People who timed the Bitcoin market perfectly and make 10x gains in the last five years will see perhaps 1% of their gains being caused by inflation and 99% of their gains caused by their lucky timing of the market.

I don't think you can conclude that Bitcoin's price is not entirely related to inflation just because it doesn't move with the inflation rate. That's a bad assumption.

I only make conclusions based on... evidence. Silly me. 

Also that 1% of Bitcoin's gains came from inflation while 99% came from market timing. I'm curious how you arrived at those figures?
Can you support them with actual calculations?

That was just an example. My point was that USD inflation is a meaningless part of the capital gains tax.

[Hypnosis00]

My point was that USD inflation is a meaningless part of the capital gains tax.

Of course, because capital gains tax is computed based on numbers, not on what is happening in the country.

all taxable transactions have fixed rules, formulas to follow and a basis for computation.

So someone cannot justify changing the computation just because of inflation, who said that inflation should be considered? 

[legiteum]

Of course, because capital gains tax is computed based on numbers, not on what is happening in the country.

all taxable transactions have fixed rules, formulas to follow and a basis for computation.

So someone cannot justify changing the computation just because of inflation, who said that inflation should be considered? 

It came up here in the thread. Some people here seem to be concerned about the "tax" of USD inflation.

I'm going to have to assume that none of these people pay much taxes if that's what they are really concerned about. 

I've probably paid 10,000 times more money in taxes on my income than I've lost to USD inflation. Hence I don't spend much time thinking about it...