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Author Topic: Is Bitcoinica limiting the market?  (Read 2295 times)
0ni0ns
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January 02, 2012, 04:00:41 AM
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I keep seeing the * show up on the buy button. Is it possible that there are more buyers who cannot get they're orders executed because Bitcoinica is out of funds, limiting the price?

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January 02, 2012, 04:10:47 AM
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We'd be at $6 without Bitcoinica failing twice.

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January 02, 2012, 04:14:34 AM
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We'd be at $6 without Bitcoinica failing twice.

oh yes, but think of all the shorts being Zhoutonged!
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January 02, 2012, 04:20:55 AM
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We'd be at $6 without Bitcoinica failing twice.

take a hand of "investors" willing too see competing markets fail, put a smart kid, that has the skills, in front of them willing to do the job and you have it all set-up. I call it Bitcoinica. Strangling the beast at the Mount Gox mountain, of course  Roll Eyes  Epic

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Luis_GT
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January 02, 2012, 05:30:53 AM
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I see the * at times.... but that still didn't stop me from getting 1300 bitcoins on 10:1 leverage...  Grin

Here's to $6 and beyond!
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January 02, 2012, 05:49:16 AM
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I can't help but feel that services like Bitcoinica are a step backwards for bitcoin and will lead to more instability and wild swings in price.  I'm not having a go at Bitcoinica in particular, but more about the introduction of '1%' tricks like short selling and high levels of leveraging.  Maybe someone can introduce CFDs too and the real fun will begin.

We're moving further away from a market based on demand and supply, real world uses for bitcoins and actual commerce, and heading towards who can be the best trader and extract profits before the feces hits the fan.  We're not learning the lessons of 2007-2011+.

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mav
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January 02, 2012, 07:04:10 AM
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I see the * at times.... but that still didn't stop me from getting 1300 bitcoins on 10:1 leverage...  Grin

Here's to $6 and beyond!

This sort of thing also makes me wonder, is leverage hurting bitcoin (borrowing money to invest and hoping it's worth more in the future so you can pay the loan)? What happens when all this leverage reverses and people want to cash out? Doesn't it just transfer the problems of fiat to bitcoin markets?

Isn't it better to let bitcoin markets reflect a non-leveraged price rather than a leveraged (and hence gambled) price?

I'm a bit of a n00b with this sort of thing so don't be afraid to post explanations that you feel are simplistic.
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January 02, 2012, 07:06:39 AM
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I see the * at times.... but that still didn't stop me from getting 1300 bitcoins on 10:1 leverage...  Grin

Here's to $6 and beyond!


This sort of thing also makes me wonder, is leverage hurting bitcoin (borrowing money to invest and hoping it's worth more in the future so you can pay the loan)? What happens when all this leverage reverses and people want to cash out? Doesn't it just transfer the problems of fiat to bitcoin markets?

Isn't it better to let bitcoin markets reflect a non-leveraged price rather than a leveraged (and hence gambled) price?

I'm a bit of a n00b with this sort of thing so don't be afraid to post explanations that you feel are simplistic.

Cashing out isn't an issue because its impossible to go into debt. Your force liquidated when your loss approaches the value of your deposit.

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January 02, 2012, 07:20:44 AM
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Cashing out isn't an issue because its impossible to go into debt. Your force liquidated when your loss approaches the value of your deposit.

Not impossible and in fact it is very common. The loss can increase past the value of your deposit in the short window of time before liquidation.

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mb300sd
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January 02, 2012, 07:23:01 AM
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Cashing out isn't an issue because its impossible to go into debt. Your force liquidated when your loss approaches the value of your deposit.

Not impossible and in fact it is very common. The loss can increase past the value of your deposit in the short window of time before liquidation.

Then what keeps someone from never using the account again instead of paying the debt?

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cypherdoc
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January 02, 2012, 07:45:44 AM
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Cashing out isn't an issue because its impossible to go into debt. Your force liquidated when your loss approaches the value of your deposit.

Not impossible and in fact it is very common. The loss can increase past the value of your deposit in the short window of time before liquidation.

resulting in a loss for Zhou.
caston
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January 02, 2012, 09:52:28 AM
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Cashing out isn't an issue because its impossible to go into debt. Your force liquidated when your loss approaches the value of your deposit.

Not impossible and in fact it is very common. The loss can increase past the value of your deposit in the short window of time before liquidation.

Then what keeps someone from never using the account again instead of paying the debt?

After you have abandoned three or four accounts like this you realise that neither you nor Zhou are making money based on your trading strategies and decide its time to move on to something else.

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Zotia
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January 02, 2012, 03:11:56 PM
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Cashing out isn't an issue because its impossible to go into debt. Your force liquidated when your loss approaches the value of your deposit.

Not impossible and in fact it is very common. The loss can increase past the value of your deposit in the short window of time before liquidation.

Then what keeps someone from never using the account again instead of paying the debt?
Nothing.

Bitcoinica makes enough money to cover those debts.
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January 02, 2012, 03:15:51 PM
 #14

I see the * at times.... but that still didn't stop me from getting 1300 bitcoins on 10:1 leverage...  Grin

Here's to $6 and beyond!

How did the 10:1 leverage work out for you with that spike downwards?  Grin Tongue

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Luis_GT
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January 02, 2012, 03:19:46 PM
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Not very well... lost 60 bitcoins thanks to that...
ineededausername
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January 02, 2012, 03:33:31 PM
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Not very well... lost 60 bitcoins thanks to that...

This is why you don't leverage 10:1 Wink

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Luis_GT
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January 02, 2012, 04:01:34 PM
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Learned my lesson for sure... lol
finway
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January 03, 2012, 02:32:49 AM
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Hope Mtgox and TradeHill will bring more funds when they start their future and option trading.

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January 03, 2012, 02:42:47 AM
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I keep seeing the * show up on the buy button. Is it possible that there are more buyers who cannot get they're orders executed because Bitcoinica is out of funds, limiting the price?

Bitcoinica doesn't drive the market.  It does let you know when the speculators are overlevereged though so you can squeeze them.  Mmmmm... Bull juice is delicious.

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StewartJ
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January 03, 2012, 02:56:15 AM
 #20

Hope Mtgox and TradeHill will bring more funds when they start their future and option trading.

I wish dearly that MT Gox would let us do Stop Loss and Limit Orders.

I want to be able to trigger my Buy and Sell orders at my chosen price, not at the current market price.

Is it that hard to implement?
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