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Author Topic: Armed Feds Prepare For Showdown With Nevada Cattle Rancher  (Read 34640 times)
bryant.coleman
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April 17, 2014, 03:00:17 AM
 #101

If you go back far enough Native Americans walked from Europe when the ice would link both continents.

There are some historical precedents for awarding land rights. Usually land is allotted to the person who first discovered it, or first settled on it. So, the Native Americans should be the rightful owners of America, unless they signed some treaty selling their land.
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April 17, 2014, 03:09:06 AM
 #102


Post #94 - Stefan Molyneux was saying the BLM used the excuse of protecting historic Indian sites when they are taking over the lands.. Lands taken by killing the Indians by the government now protecting tortoises. Hmmm.

If the farmer's ancestors fought the Natives back in the days, then the people who should get those lands back are them, not the BLM...

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April 17, 2014, 06:28:33 AM
 #103

Explanation of the Bundy Ranch situation and why the BLM is out of line.

To understand this, we have to go back to the original US Constitution and also Nevada's admission to statehood. In order for the BLM to assert any claim against Bundy for his use of the land in question, we have to consider whether or not the US lawfully owns that land. So the first thing is to examine the method by which the US can own property. As we know, the federal government is supposed to be constrained by the Constitution to only those powers specifically listed there. All other powers belong to the States and the people, respectively, according to the Tenth Amendment. The Constitution only allows for the creation of a District for the government to operate but also prescribes a means of acquiring land for federal use. The methods are via treaty with other nations, purchase from a state with consent of that state's legislature, and finally, eminent domain. Eminent domain would allow for the just taking with compensation of private property within the District or within any other lawfully owned federal property. The land in question originally belonged to Mexico but after our war with them, the federal government acquired much of the western US via treaty.

Now that we know how the federal government acquired the land, we have to look at their ability to maintain possession of it. When a territory becomes a state, it does so under equal footing as the original thirteen states. Nevada did not get this equal footing when it was admitted to the union. In 1864, Lincoln and the Congress of the time was waging a war against the seceeded states and had substantial debt. It was discovered that Nevada had a lot of silver and so the federal government admitted Nevada with the requirement that all land that wasn't privately owned would belong to the federal government. Upon admission to the union, a new state maintains control of all public lands except navigable waterways. To lose control of 86% of its land as a condition of statehood violates the Doctrine of the Equality of States as well as previous Supreme Court precedent. Unfortunately for Nevada, she had a spineless legislative body for about 100 years. In fact, it wasn't until 1979 that Nevada passed AB 413 into law as NRS Chapter 321. Nevada can not collect property taxes on that 86% of federally held land but must still provide infrastructure, schooling, etc. This essentially makes the federal government a state welfare case as they haven't ever paid a property tax on that 86% of land within Nevada.

In western states, there were no regulations regarding grazing on open ranges. The Bundy family had been grazing their cattle on that land since 1887. Well, because of range wars between ranchers, etc., it was decided that regulation was needed. The Taylor Grazing Act was passed in 1934 to regulate grazing on federal land. Eventually, this led to the BLM and their management of the federal lands. Bundy was paying the management fees and BLM was actually doing a lot of good at keeping the land up. However, the BLM lost its way like all federal agencies and started being used for political dealings. This led to the BLM switching from managing land to using the management fees the ranchers were paying in order to kick ranchers off the lands by reducing and suspending the amounts of animals that can graze the land. When the money no longer went to land management and instead into harassing ranchers, Bundy quit paying. He hasn't paid since 1993.

So there are a few key things at work here. The land should belong to the state of Nevada under the Doctrine of the Equality of States so BLM should have no legal grounds for even initiating this action against Bundy. There is also a legal concept regarding real estate called adverse possession. Under adverse possession, if a person is using property for a specified length of time (differs by state), and the use is known and against the will of the owner who does nothing to stop it, the disseisor can make a claim of ownership. Bundy should be claiming ownership rights in Nevada state courts since he has used the land for 20 years without federal government's permission.





TLDR:  US gov lost claim to land with NV admission to US and Bundy has squatter's rights.

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Wilikon
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April 17, 2014, 03:31:25 PM
 #104


POS Rory Reid says Rancher Cliven Bundy Should Be Prosecuted

Rory Reid, son of Senator Harry Reid, appeared on News 3′s “What’s Your Point?” this week to discuss the Bundy Ranch showdown. Reid bashed ranchers and miners in his segment with host Jeff Gillan:

“Nevada is a loser here. Everybody who’s ever served in public office in Nevada has talked about expanding our economy so we don’t rely on gaming and ranching and mining and what people all over the country saw were pictures of what was going on in our state… There’s more to happen here, I’m sure.”

http://youtu.be/E33k8wABHtw
bryant.coleman
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April 17, 2014, 03:47:36 PM
 #105

POS Rory Reid says Rancher Cliven Bundy Should Be Prosecuted
Rory Reid, son of Senator Harry Reid, appeared on News 3′s “What’s Your Point?” this week to discuss the Bundy Ranch showdown. Reid bashed ranchers and miners in his segment with host Jeff Gillan

Like father, like son. Harry Reid should be pleased that he has passed all his scumbag genes to his son. BTW... who is Rory Reid to give his opinion on this issue? Is he an elected representative? If not, why can't he GTFO?
Wilikon
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April 17, 2014, 04:09:04 PM
 #106






The federal agency that backed down over the weekend in a tense standoff with a Nevada rancher is being accused of leaving a trail of wreckage behind.

Fox News toured the damage -- allegedly caused by the Bureau of Land Management -- which included holes in water tanks and destroyed water lines and fences. According to family friends, the bureau's hired "cowboys" also killed two prize bulls.

"They had total control of this land for one week, and look at the destruction they did in one week," said Corey Houston, friend of rancher Cliven Bundy and his family. "So why would you trust somebody like that? And how does that show that they're a better steward?"

The BLM and other law enforcement officials backed down on Saturday in their effort to seize Bundy's cattle, after hundreds of protesters, some armed, arrived to show support for the Bundy family. In the end, BLM officials left the scene amid concerns about safety, and no shots were fired.

The dispute between the feds and the Bundy family has been going on for years; they say he owes more than $1.1 million in unpaid grazing fees -- and long ago revoked his grazing rights over concern for a federally protected tortoise. They sent officials to round up his livestock following a pair of federal court orders last year giving the U.S. government the authority to impound the cattle.

The feds, though, are being accused of taking the court orders way too far.

On a Friday night conference call, BLM officials told reporters that "illegal structures" on Bundy's ranch -- water tanks, water lines and corrals -- had to be removed to "restore" the land to its natural state and prevent the rancher from restarting his illegal cattle operation.

However, the court order used to justify the operation appears only to give the agency the authority to "seize and impound" Bundy's cattle.

"Nowhere in the court order that I saw does it say that they can destroy infrastructure, destroy corrals, tanks ... desert environment, shoot cattle," Houston said.

Bundy's friends say the BLM wranglers told them the bulls were shot because they were dangerous and could gore their horses. One bull was shot five times.

But Houston said the pen holding the bull wasn't even bent. "It's not like the bull was smashing this pen and trying tackle people or anything," he said. "The pen is sitting here. It hasn't moved. No damage whatsoever. Where was the danger with that bull?"

Plus he said BLM vehicles appear to have crushed a tortoise burrow near the damaged water tank. "How's that conservation?" he asked.

The BLM has not yet responded to a request for comment on these allegations.

Bundy has refused to pay the grazing fees or remove his cattle, and doesn't even acknowledge the federal government's authority to assess or collect damages.

The bureau has said if Bundy wasn't willing to pay, then they would sell his cattle.

However, there was a problem with that plan -- few in Nevada would touch Bundy's cattle for fear of being blacklisted.

"The sale yards are very nervous about taking what in the past has been basically stolen cattle from the federal government," Nevada Agriculture Commissioner Ramona Morrison said.

Documents show the BLM paid a Utah cattle wrangler $966,000 to collect Bundy's cattle and a Utah auctioneer to sell them. However, Utah Gov. Gary Herbert refused to let Bundy cattle cross state lines, saying in a letter: "As Governor of Utah, I urgently request that a herd of cattle seized by the Bureau of Land Management from Mr. Cliven Bundy of Bunkerville, Nevada, not be sent to Utah. There are serious concerns about human safety and animal health and well-being, if these animals are shipped to and sold in Utah."

That letter was sent three days before the BLM round-up, which is why the cattle were still being held Saturday in temporary pens just a few miles from Bundy's ranch. Morrison says BLM was sitting on cattle because it had no way to get rid of them -- setting up a potential tragedy as orphaned calves were not getting any milk and feed costs were about to skyrocket.

The showdown is far from over. The BLM says it will "continue to work to resolve the matter administratively and judicially," though Bundy still doesn't recognize federal authority over the federal lands that he continues to use in violation of a court order. The federal judge who issued that decision says Bundy's claims "are without merit."

That order from October 2013 says Bundy owes $200 per day per head for every day he fails to move his cattle. That amounts to roughly $640 million in damages owed to the federal government for illegally grazing his cattle.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/04/16/feds-accused-leaving-trail-wreckage-after-nevada-ranch-standoff/

Bit_Happy (OP)
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April 17, 2014, 04:44:24 PM
 #107

Everything posted recently leaves little doubt the Feds will be back.
Perhaps in Nov shortly after the elections are over is when they move in?

Hey, is there a BTC donation for Bundy set up yet with a trusted trustee?

bryant.coleman
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April 17, 2014, 04:57:23 PM
 #108

Everything posted recently leaves little doubt the Feds will be back.
Perhaps in Nov shortly after the elections are over is when they move in?

First they will make him bankrupt by imposing millions of $$$ in fines. They will take away his cattle to pay for the fines. Finally they will arrest him and put him behind bars, in some federal prison.
Wilikon
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April 18, 2014, 01:18:11 AM
 #109






http://www.infowars.com/harry-reid-calls-cliven-bundy-supporters-domestic-terrorists/
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April 18, 2014, 02:47:05 AM
 #110



BLM Leaves Behind Mass Grave For Cattle At Bundy Ranch…

“The mass grave that was dug was about 50 feet long, 18 feet wide, 10 feet deep, and about a third of the way filled back in with cattle.”







Bunkerville, NEVADA, April 16, 2014 – Ben Swann interviewed Ryan Bundy, son of Cliven Bundy, on his radio program Wednesday. Bundy spoke about the continuing battle over the grazing land, the next steps federal agents may take, and what has already taken place on the property so far.

Bundy told Swann that federal agents have fled the area and left a great deal of gear and equipment and that they aren’t likely to return any time soon for it. He also said that federal agents destroyed much of the grazing infrastructure on the land, including water lines, water tanks, troughs, corrals, and fences.

The damage didn’t stop at just destroying infrastructure: Bundy revealed that their cattle, about 40 or so, had been killed by federal agents and thrown into a mass grave.

In these photographs provided to Benswann.com from the Bundy family, you can see that so called mass grave which was dug out with the use of a backhoe. Already inside that dirt grave you can see the body of at least one of the cattle.

http://benswann.com/did-blm-bury-bundy-cattle-in-mass-grave-warning-graphic-images/

AnonyMint
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April 18, 2014, 07:49:42 AM
 #111

Next YOU and I go in a hole to die of suffocation or some brutal torture, to reach the 500 million limit on global population as stipulated in CNN's Ted Turner's Georgia Guidestones.

From Reid's latest lunatic remarks, you can see the elite are very afraid of citizens who have weapons and stand up for their basic human rights.

They will try their damndest to label defenders of humanity as extremists, to try to keep the masses in the pot as boiling frogs until it is too late for the world.



BLM Leaves Behind Mass Grave For Cattle At Bundy Ranch…

“The mass grave that was dug was about 50 feet long, 18 feet wide, 10 feet deep, and about a third of the way filled back in with cattle.”]



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April 18, 2014, 08:46:53 AM
Last edit: April 18, 2014, 09:46:04 AM by AnonyMint
 #112

OK... I found a video link which is working. Here is the link:

http://www.disclose.tv/action/viewvideo/172098/Bundy_Ranch__What_Youre_Not_Being_Told/

The video is 11 minutes long. Can someone re-upload it to the Youtube?


That is the video I had originally linked to below, which was the one Armstrong had linked to in his article. Dirty Harry is taking down the video where ever it appears. This corroborates that Google is likely complicit.


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bryant.coleman
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April 18, 2014, 10:19:52 AM
 #113

The damage didn’t stop at just destroying infrastructure: Bundy revealed that their cattle, about 40 or so, had been killed by federal agents and thrown into a mass grave.

This is really horrible. Why can't they just detain the cattle and move it to some other area? (not saying that it is the correct thing to do). What was the need to kill those poor animals? It seems that the BLM is undertaking a terror campaign, to force Bundy out of the ranch on his own. Is this legally permissible, to kill all those animals?
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April 18, 2014, 10:23:29 AM
 #114

The damage didn’t stop at just destroying infrastructure: Bundy revealed that their cattle, about 40 or so, had been killed by federal agents and thrown into a mass grave.

This is really horrible. Why can't they just detain the cattle and move it to some other area? (not saying that it is the correct thing to do). What was the need to kill those poor animals? It seems that the BLM is undertaking a terror campaign, to force Bundy out of the ranch on his own. Is this legally permissible, to kill all those animals?

What Peter Pan fantasy have you been living in?

What rule of law?

There is no such thing any more.

Extreme chaos is ahead. The USA and the world will break out in Mad Max violence.

Are you prepared? Will Bitcoin help you when it is controlled by 2 mining pools?

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April 18, 2014, 03:57:15 PM
 #115

http://oathkeepers.org/oath/2014/04/10/coalition-of-western-state-legislators-sheriffs-and-veterans-stand-vigil-in-support-of-embattled-nevada-rancher-cliven-bundy-%E2%80%98to-prevent-another-ruby-ridge-or-waco%E2%80%9D/

Reid uses the term domestic terrorists and Steward Rhodes, Oath Keepers founder and
Yale law grad constitutional scholar, turned the tables and is using the term
"domestic enemies of the Constitution". 
Rhodes wrote a rallying cry that could be described as the modern day American
declaration of independence.
This is not about cattle.  This is about power, and the trampling of rights.  It’s
about a systemic power grab and abuse of power by the federal government as it runs
roughshod over the rights of honest, hard-working rural Americans and over the
rights of all the Western states.  This is not an isolated incident.  It is but the
latest in a long train of abuses aimed at subjecting rural Americans to absolute
despotism while destroying the property rights, economy, and independence of the
rural West, in particular, and eventually wiping out all of rural America.  This is
an attack on all of the West, which is why patriotic legislators and lawmen from all
over the West are answering the call to defend it.
And it is not just ranching that is under attack.  It is also mining, farming,
logging, fishing, oil and gas, and any other industry that uses natural resources or
the land.   This is a full spectrum, frontal assault on the rural West. 
Ultimately, it is about bankrupting and impoverishing independent rural Americans to
bring on a planned depopulation of the West.
This is truly a range war, and it is being waged by all three branches of the
federal government, including complicit federal judges who “make it legal” through
their willful rulings that strip away any meaningful redress or shelter for ranchers
and farmers who have worked the land for generations only to now be told that they
can no longer do so because of one endangered species or another.  Entire regions of
the West are being shut down and impoverished using this tactic.
In this case, the Bundy family has run cattle on that same range since 1877 and they
used to have fifty-two neighboring ranchers who did the same.  Now, using the Desert
Tortoise as the weapon of choice, the federal government has run all the other
ranchers in Clark County, Nevada out of business, and Cliven Bundy truly is the last
man standing.   And it is also about all Nevadans being “prohibited” from using
their own “Public Land” and the fact that the Feds were imposing their will over the
state and it’s people at gun-point.
Unless We the People begin to take a meaningful stand now, in full support of our
patriotic state public servants who are willing to lead us, the domestic enemies of
the Constitution will not stop until the West is a land of ghost towns, devoid of
people, and we are all crammed into city slums, totally dependent and weak, with no
protection of our rights, like third-world urbanized peons under the arbitrary and
capricious control of corrupt dictators.

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bryant.coleman
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April 18, 2014, 04:30:14 PM
 #116

I am slightly confused. Which side is the Fox News currently? Check this:

http://nation.foxnews.com/2014/04/18/exclusive-rancher-cliven-bundy-hits-back-after-reid-calls-family-domestic-terrorists

Quote
"Well, I guess he's right," Bundy said, "I don't know what else we'd be. We're definitely citizens riled up. I don't know whether you could call us terrorists. There are the most loving people here I've ever met in my life."
Wilikon
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April 18, 2014, 07:09:26 PM
 #117

I am slightly confused. Which side is the Fox News currently? Check this:

http://nation.foxnews.com/2014/04/18/exclusive-rancher-cliven-bundy-hits-back-after-reid-calls-family-domestic-terrorists

Quote
"Well, I guess he's right," Bundy said, "I don't know what else we'd be. We're definitely citizens riled up. I don't know whether you could call us terrorists. There are the most loving people here I've ever met in my life."

I am confused too. Which side was foxnews supposed to be on?
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April 18, 2014, 08:35:45 PM
 #118

I am slightly confused. Which side is the Fox News currently? Check this:

http://nation.foxnews.com/2014/04/18/exclusive-rancher-cliven-bundy-hits-back-after-reid-calls-family-domestic-terrorists

Quote
"Well, I guess he's right," Bundy said, "I don't know what else we'd be. We're definitely citizens riled up. I don't know whether you could call us terrorists. There are the most loving people here I've ever met in my life."

I am confused too. Which side was foxnews supposed to be on?

Which side was foxnews supposed to be on?
Fox news is fair and balanced.
They report, we decide.  Cheesy

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April 18, 2014, 09:11:59 PM
 #119

I am slightly confused. Which side is the Fox News currently? Check this:

http://nation.foxnews.com/2014/04/18/exclusive-rancher-cliven-bundy-hits-back-after-reid-calls-family-domestic-terrorists

Quote
"Well, I guess he's right," Bundy said, "I don't know what else we'd be. We're definitely citizens riled up. I don't know whether you could call us terrorists. There are the most loving people here I've ever met in my life."

I am confused too. Which side was foxnews supposed to be on?

Which side was foxnews supposed to be on?
Fox news is fair and balanced.
They report, we decide.  Cheesy

My foxnews links never fail to bring some reactions/comments. Infowars links? Booyaah!!! Grin Grin
Wilikon
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April 18, 2014, 09:34:36 PM
 #120


The Bundy Ranch: The Government Owns Nothing And Controls Everything

http://youtu.be/WSkr267xShE

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