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Author Topic: Armory - Discussion Thread  (Read 482126 times)
goatpig
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December 25, 2013, 09:31:34 PM
 #3041

I know you considered adding option to transfer the unsigned file to offline computer using sound (sound card) and back. Any progress in this ?

That's my responsibility. However it isn't at the top of my priority list just yet. Busy with a wallet recovery tool and Trezor integration for now.
http://www.anfractuosity.com/projects/ultrasound-via-a-laptop/
for example Wink

Interesting project. Not fit for Armory's use case sadly. We're looking to send the data over wires, with speed in mind.

btcarmory.com
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December 25, 2013, 10:43:13 PM
 #3042

Re-using addresses to me is a good feature of bitcoin. Why are programs trying to stop that? When you have a donation address, a payment address, an address just associated with your company you would want people to know that address. Let the user make up their mind and do what they want instead of the program, right? Almot %90 of the users here paste their personal bitcoin address in their signature. It is more of a common practice to re-use addresses then anything and when a program or someone tries to just change that, questions will be asked....hence an entire thread.
Address reuse is privacy pollution.

And that should up to the user to do with what he/she wants to do with his/her privacy. Why would other people care what I do?

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etotheipi
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December 25, 2013, 11:36:00 PM
 #3043

Re-using addresses to me is a good feature of bitcoin. Why are programs trying to stop that? When you have a donation address, a payment address, an address just associated with your company you would want people to know that address. Let the user make up their mind and do what they want instead of the program, right? Almot %90 of the users here paste their personal bitcoin address in their signature. It is more of a common practice to re-use addresses then anything and when a program or someone tries to just change that, questions will be asked....hence an entire thread.
Address reuse is privacy pollution.

And that should up to the user to do with what he/she wants to do with his/her privacy. Why would other people care what I do?

Because it's not expected of the user to know how to optimize their own privacy.  It's up to us to set sane defaults and educate users about what they sacrifice by deviating from that.

Unfortunately, Bitcoin privacy is pretty bad and reusing addresses pretty much completely deanonamizes you. Every one you interact with can see you r entire history and balance. It's pretty atrocious.

Not only that, but by doing that you damage the privacy of everyone that interacts with you.  It's in everyone's best interest to discourage address reuse, especially when the software uses deterministic wallets and backups are not an issue

Founder and CEO of Armory Technologies, Inc.
Armory Bitcoin Wallet: Bringing cold storage to the average user!
Only use Armory software signed by the Armory Offline Signing Key (0x98832223)

Please donate to the Armory project by clicking here!    (or donate directly via 1QBDLYTDFHHZAABYSKGKPWKLSXZWCCJQBX -- yes, it's a real address!)
justusranvier
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December 25, 2013, 11:41:49 PM
 #3044

And that should up to the user to do with what he/she wants to do with his/her privacy. Why would other people care what I do?
Not only that, but by doing that you damage the privacy of everyone that interacts with you.
That's why I called it pollution.

People who practise poor address hygiene make the ecosystem worse for everybody.
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December 26, 2013, 12:11:16 AM
 #3045

If you use a green address, some day a big miner can decide to Bock you and any transaction that ever involved you

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etotheipi
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December 26, 2013, 12:46:33 AM
 #3046

We are working on creating a system where you can generate a  deterministic wallet and use the root public key as a form of identity, but you don't give out the chaincode so no one knows how to compute your addresses. But you can generate addressees and provide proof that it was derived from the root key, without revealing the chaincode or any other addresses.  This would be far superior to green addresses.

Founder and CEO of Armory Technologies, Inc.
Armory Bitcoin Wallet: Bringing cold storage to the average user!
Only use Armory software signed by the Armory Offline Signing Key (0x98832223)

Please donate to the Armory project by clicking here!    (or donate directly via 1QBDLYTDFHHZAABYSKGKPWKLSXZWCCJQBX -- yes, it's a real address!)
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December 26, 2013, 02:10:47 AM
 #3047

If I create an Armory offline wallet (or online for that matter) and let it sit for 10 years (or any amount of time) what happens if Armory is discontinued? Will I still be able to access my bitcoins though another service using my wallet credentials? I currently have an offline wallet and want to make sure I can access those funds if Armory goes belly up.

Also I fired up Armory online, imported a new watch-only wallet and the database build said 81 months with version .88. I just had the online version running yesterday but 81 months had to be wrong regardless. I have a pretty fast quad-core computer FYI. Exiting Armory and running it again fixed that problem.

Thank You
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December 26, 2013, 02:42:10 AM
 #3048

If I create an Armory offline wallet (or online for that matter) and let it sit for 10 years (or any amount of time) what happens if Armory is discontinued? Will I still be able to access my bitcoins though another service using my wallet credentials? I currently have an offline wallet and want to make sure I can access those funds if Armory goes belly up.

Also I fired up Armory online, imported a new watch-only wallet and the database build said 81 months with version .88. I just had the online version running yesterday but 81 months had to be wrong regardless. I have a pretty fast quad-core computer FYI. Exiting Armory and running it again fixed that problem.

Thank You

Backup the executable. Then you can export private keys.

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goatpig
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December 26, 2013, 03:22:37 AM
 #3049

If I create an Armory offline wallet (or online for that matter) and let it sit for 10 years (or any amount of time) what happens if Armory is discontinued? Will I still be able to access my bitcoins though another service using my wallet credentials? I currently have an offline wallet and want to make sure I can access those funds if Armory goes belly up.

Also I fired up Armory online, imported a new watch-only wallet and the database build said 81 months with version .88. I just had the online version running yesterday but 81 months had to be wrong regardless. I have a pretty fast quad-core computer FYI. Exiting Armory and running it again fixed that problem.

Thank You
'

Armory's source is on github. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think they have a politic of never deleting any file. You can access all older versions as well, as long as you can find the particular commit. And I don't think you can destroy just shut down a repo. So the source will be available as long as github is around, and I don't expect them to go down unless they take the entire internet with themselves.

btcarmory.com
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December 26, 2013, 10:53:56 PM
 #3050

[Report] Armory .90 Beta
When opening the Address Book, the table of addresses appears to be sorted by # as shown by the arrow above the "#". The addresses are not sorted at all; to make the addresses sorted, the user must press on one of the table header (such as "#", "Address", "Comment", etc) and the addresses then sort accordingly.

(attached is the view of the table upon opening the window)
slfmde
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December 27, 2013, 04:32:59 AM
 #3051

If I create an Armory offline wallet (or online for that matter) and let it sit for 10 years (or any amount of time) what happens if Armory is discontinued? Will I still be able to access my bitcoins though another service using my wallet credentials? I currently have an offline wallet and want to make sure I can access those funds if Armory goes belly up.

Also I fired up Armory online, imported a new watch-only wallet and the database build said 81 months with version .88. I just had the online version running yesterday but 81 months had to be wrong regardless. I have a pretty fast quad-core computer FYI. Exiting Armory and running it again fixed that problem.

Thank You

Backup the executable. Then you can export private keys.

Thanks for the reply but can you elaborate maybe step-by-step as I'm stilling trying to learn my way around. It sounds like I access the wallet offline, click "backup individual keys" then create a paper backup of that info. Which boxes should I check there to ensure I have all the information I would need in the future to access the coins in this wallet? The options in that window are below.

Address String
Private Key (Plain Base58)
Private Key (Plain Hex)
Public Key (BE)

Imported Addresses Only
Include Unused
Include Paper Backup Root

Thanks Again I'm still trying to learn my way around.
etotheipi
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December 27, 2013, 04:43:19 AM
 #3052

Thanks for the reply but can you elaborate maybe step-by-step as I'm stilling trying to learn my way around. It sounds like I access the wallet offline, click "backup individual keys" then create a paper backup of that info. Which boxes should I check there to ensure I have all the information I would need in the future to access the coins in this wallet? The options in that window are below.

Address String
Private Key (Plain Base58)
Private Key (Plain Hex)
Public Key (BE)

Imported Addresses Only
Include Unused
Include Paper Backup Root

Thanks Again I'm still trying to learn my way around.

We get this question occasionally and I think it's crazy.  Any version of Armory ever created can restore your wallet and/or let you access your private keys to be exported. Regardless of the availability of github (which is very reliable, btw), you only need one person in the entire world who's got an old installer in the downloads folder.  And if Bitcoin is valuable enough, someone will make it available.  It's not like there's going to be billions of dollars behind Armory wallets and everyone in the world will spontaneously delete all copies of Armory code/installers that ever existed (and github deletes the repo). 

Look at DVDDecryptor, and SSHSecureShell 3.2.9.  Those are two pieces of software that I use that stopped being developed 10+ years ago, yet the last version created is still easily available on the internet.  I don't see how a program holding huge amounts of money would not survive.  In reality, github will keep it forever, anyway, along with anyone who ever cloned the repo.

Founder and CEO of Armory Technologies, Inc.
Armory Bitcoin Wallet: Bringing cold storage to the average user!
Only use Armory software signed by the Armory Offline Signing Key (0x98832223)

Please donate to the Armory project by clicking here!    (or donate directly via 1QBDLYTDFHHZAABYSKGKPWKLSXZWCCJQBX -- yes, it's a real address!)
cp1
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December 27, 2013, 04:44:12 AM
 #3053

If you don't lose the copy of armory you just need the wallet backup info:  chain code / root key or something like that.  If you're afraid of losing the armory program and all future access to it, you need the private key (base 58) for each of your addresses that you have coins in.

Guide to armory offline install on USB key:  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=241730.0
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December 27, 2013, 04:45:22 AM
 #3054

Launching ArmoryGuide.com today. Figured it could be a kinda late Christmas present for you guys. Just wanted to make setup a little easier for newbies. In the future(and based on your feedback), I'll be adding videos and more advanced features.

Screenshot:


See the official topic for more info:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=386770.0

Bitcoin Dev / Storj - Decentralized Cloud Storage. Winner of Texas Bitcoin Conference Hackathon 2014. / Peercoin Web Lead / Primecoin Web Lead / Armory Guide Author / "Am I the only one that trusts Dogecoin more than the Federal Reserve?"
slfmde
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December 27, 2013, 04:54:42 AM
 #3055

Thanks for the reply but can you elaborate maybe step-by-step as I'm stilling trying to learn my way around. It sounds like I access the wallet offline, click "backup individual keys" then create a paper backup of that info. Which boxes should I check there to ensure I have all the information I would need in the future to access the coins in this wallet? The options in that window are below.

Address String
Private Key (Plain Base58)
Private Key (Plain Hex)
Public Key (BE)

Imported Addresses Only
Include Unused
Include Paper Backup Root

Thanks Again I'm still trying to learn my way around.

We get this question occasionally and I think it's crazy.  Any version of Armory ever created can restore your wallet and/or let you access your private keys to be exported. Regardless of the availability of github (which is very reliable, btw), you only need one person in the entire world who's got an old installer in the downloads folder.  And if Bitcoin is valuable enough, someone will make it available.  It's not like there's going to be billions of dollars behind Armory wallets and everyone in the world will spontaneously delete all copies of Armory code/installers that ever existed (and github deletes the repo). 

Look at DVDDecryptor, and SSHSecureShell 3.2.9.  Those are two pieces of software that I use that stopped being developed 10+ years ago, yet the last version created is still easily available on the internet.  I don't see how a program holding huge amounts of money would not survive.  In reality, github will keep it forever, anyway, along with anyone who ever cloned the repo.


My problem is that I don't understand exactly how everything works which is why I'm asking these questions. I also don't see a problem with being "to safe" if it only takes a little time to do and gives peace of mind.

Quote
If you don't lose the copy of armory you just need the wallet backup info:  chain code / root key or something like that.  If you're afraid of losing the armory program and all future access to it, you need the private key (base 58) for each of your addresses that you have coins in.

Thanks for the reply that answers my questions.
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December 27, 2013, 05:01:55 AM
 #3056

I want the ability to setup watching only wallets for public keys.  Specifically for Casascius Coins and paper wallets for which I don't control the private keys (short of breaking the seal).

I've searched this forum and apparently this functionality has been deliberately avoided as there's a fear that watching only addresses could somehow find their way it into our ordinary wallets and give us a false sense of control.  I don't understand how this is possible as I control which addresses I import into my wallets.

Anyway if I'm missing something perhaps we could introduce a new wallet designation where it's clear that these balances can't be spent without importing the private keys first.
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December 27, 2013, 05:05:38 AM
 #3057

It does have watching only wallets, but I think you need to generate then from a wallet you already have in Armory.  You might be able to do it by hand using armoryengine.py.

Guide to armory offline install on USB key:  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=241730.0
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December 27, 2013, 05:27:56 AM
 #3058

Re-using addresses to me is a good feature of bitcoin. Why are programs trying to stop that? When you have a donation address, a payment address, an address just associated with your company you would want people to know that address. Let the user make up their mind and do what they want instead of the program, right? Almot %90 of the users here paste their personal bitcoin address in their signature. It is more of a common practice to re-use addresses then anything and when a program or someone tries to just change that, questions will be asked....hence an entire thread.
Address reuse is privacy pollution.

And that should up to the user to do with what he/she wants to do with his/her privacy. Why would other people care what I do?

Because it's not expected of the user to know how to optimize their own privacy.  It's up to us to set sane defaults and educate users about what they sacrifice by deviating from that.

Unfortunately, Bitcoin privacy is pretty bad and reusing addresses pretty much completely deanonamizes you. Every one you interact with can see you r entire history and balance. It's pretty atrocious.

Not only that, but by doing that you damage the privacy of everyone that interacts with you.  It's in everyone's best interest to discourage address reuse, especially when the software uses deterministic wallets and backups are not an issue

Here's the rub. Some user's want to be able to let everyone see their account history for proof of payments, account balances, etc. I'm currently taking donation for a website, and want the users to see how much I have been receiving so they can stop donating when the balance is where it is supposed to be. Even this forum does the same thing. They use the same address over and over again so people can see what is going on. If that's what its intent is for, then it is not a privacy issue. There are several situations where I would want to use the same receive address.  If someone making a donation realizes the address they are sending to has been used over and over, then that address history is viewable by all. At that point, let the user make the decision on what they want to to. Are you trying to implement new rules into bitcoin or just your client? Will you continue to keep the ability for the user to keep using the same receive address or remove that function entirely. As I said before, I'm all for letting the user make the decision (be it a bad one or not) and not force them down a path they don't want to go because of the program. If that happens with me, I'll just find an alternative. Everyone is so hooked on having a receive for everything that receive address list starts to grow like wild file. If that's not pollution, I don't know what is. The bottom line, some people are fully aware of what they are doing and just want to use a receive address they used before. This is an obvious advanced bitcoin client here, please don't turn around and say you are looking out for the new bitcoin users and their practices. If I want to use another address, I'll pick one. I can see the very paranoid, overly security conscious people worried about this, but their also the ones that won't even use online banking because they're afraid their account will get hacked. Being overly paranoid and secretive puts you into certain positions you have to deal with, and if you are hiding something that's a whole new story.


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December 27, 2013, 06:54:35 AM
 #3059

The bottom line, some people are fully aware of what they are doing and just want to use a receive address they used before. This is an obvious advanced bitcoin client here, please don't turn around and say you are looking out for the new bitcoin users and their practices. If I want to use another address, I'll pick one. I can see the very paranoid, overly security conscious people worried about this, but their also the ones that won't even use online banking because they're afraid their account will get hacked. Being overly paranoid and secretive puts you into certain positions you have to deal with, and if you are hiding something that's a whole new story.

This isn't a conspiracy theory.  No one is stopping you from reusing addresses.  But it's not the default behavior because the privacy implications are egregious.  It absolutely is our job to set sane defaults, and users that know what they're doing can deviate from it.

This topic has been discussed endlessly, everywhere. It's generally accepted best practice that you don't reuse addresses unless you have an explicit reason to.  It is discouraged, but there are reasons to do it (such as donation addresses).

There's a reason every Bitcoin client is moving towards BIP 32 -- so they can employ best practices without the issues with backups.  If you don't like it, then go ahead and reuse your addresses.

Founder and CEO of Armory Technologies, Inc.
Armory Bitcoin Wallet: Bringing cold storage to the average user!
Only use Armory software signed by the Armory Offline Signing Key (0x98832223)

Please donate to the Armory project by clicking here!    (or donate directly via 1QBDLYTDFHHZAABYSKGKPWKLSXZWCCJQBX -- yes, it's a real address!)
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December 27, 2013, 09:27:21 AM
 #3060

how to remove a sending address that I will never use?

There are a number of sending addresses listed in Armory, but I will not use them again. How can I remove them from my address book?

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