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Author Topic: ฿ Hi Stakes BTC Raffle Lotto #1 | Jackpot 4.0 ฿ | No House Edge |Provably Fair ฿  (Read 2702 times)
Dabs
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April 16, 2014, 04:01:48 AM
 #21

Why the past? The current game should get it from a future date, so no one (not even the house) knows who will win until the draw. Otherwise, someone will game your game... you know, and win all the time.

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April 16, 2014, 06:31:13 AM
Last edit: April 16, 2014, 07:02:28 AM by Financisto
 #22

Why the past? The current game should get it from a future date, so no one (not even the house) knows who will win until the draw. Otherwise, someone will game your game... you know, and win all the time.
In fact, when I said "past", I meant the "other two modes" of string generator available at random.org as explained here: http://www.random.org/faq/#Q2.6

You used one mode at you lotto ("Using pregenerated randomization from date") and that's what I am using here right now.

As they mention:

Quote
The other two modes allow you to select a pregenerated randomization, which means that your numbers or strings will be based on randomness generated by RANDOM.ORG some time in the past. These modes allows you to replay a given sequence of numbers at a later stage, and allows multiple parties in different locations to get the same numbers in a predictable fashion. These modes effectively turn RANDOM.ORG into a pseudo-random number generator.

P.s.: I'm thinking about using the third mode ("Using pregenerated randomization based on persistent identifier"). Maybe the identifier might be my secret for each round...

A better approach (for multiple draws per day) might be replacing the string from random.org by the following/next secret revealed at "Little Bit at a Time" after the tenth (last before draw) ticket bought (and confirmed) here.

I guess I'll go for that way in order to maintain a good scenario of Provably Fairness...

What do you think about it?

Note: Gentlemen, I'll release 2nd round in a few hours after thinking a bit more about this "random stuff" and Provably Fair dilemma.

Thanks in advance for comprehending.

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April 17, 2014, 12:34:50 AM
 #23

Oh yah, it's past and available after that particular date. So I set all my draws in a future date. When that passes, you can now get the result, and so can everyone else.

For example:
http://www.random.org/strings/?num=10&len=10&digits=on&upperalpha=on&loweralpha=on&unique=off&format=plain&rnd=date.2014-04-17

gives

AvXzBzctew
QXIeeAwMYN
b8SHdyJfIz
8SQqYIoXZ9
l30MM2ci3N
roRhICzooM
iVjUmb2KGF
jQSjMhXIrV
tjy5ZP3RYC
1eIuBUbXTu

But only from today onwards. Yesterday, that data was not available.

http://www.random.org/strings/?num=10&len=10&digits=on&upperalpha=on&loweralpha=on&unique=off&format=plain&rnd=date.2024-04-17

gives

Error: No randomization exists for that date

Because the year is set at 2024. No matter how hard you try, you won't figure it out until 10 years from today.

Using the third mode is just as good as having your own secret and hashed with SHA256 (or whatever hash algo you use.)

The Little Bit At A Time is good for several draws per day. Or a maximum of 1 per hour. If you want practically unlimited draws per day, you can just use a sequence for the day (like just-dice nonce). Add 001 for the first draw. Add 002 for the second draw. You get to make up to a thousand draws per day if you stick to 3 numeric digits.

As long as one secret is not known to you, the operator / owner, then it is Provably Fair. If you know it (like using the third mode), then ... you can win all the time if you wanted to.

The only thing is that you have to wait for any secrets to be revealed, the next day, or the next hour.

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April 18, 2014, 02:05:51 AM
Last edit: April 18, 2014, 02:54:12 AM by Financisto
 #24

Thanks Dabs for the insights!

I'll replace the random string generator by the "Little Bit at a Time" hourly secrets, so when the last ticket bought (tenth ticket) is confirmed we add the next/following (future) hour secret to the "calculation". That way we'll be able to draw more than once a day and still stay true to the Provably Fair "philosophy"!

OP updated.

2nd Round is now running.

Enjoy everybody!

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April 18, 2014, 04:42:17 AM
Last edit: April 18, 2014, 04:55:43 AM by Financisto
 #25

Jackpot: 3.1999 BTC

Tickets confirmed: 2

TX ID Hash:

Code:
efb6aeb65a44889e8ee7dcf8e005033fb140aaea70e0de68b059115cec932c76
14fb2ea883a171b136906f4c9f0becda9e597bb407c18104db10ef06ca36419a

Remaining tickets: 8

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April 19, 2014, 01:20:30 AM
 #26

What happens if we don't get enough ticket buyers?
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April 19, 2014, 08:53:06 PM
 #27

What happens if we don't get enough ticket buyers?
Do not bother! In that specific case all tickets bought will be refunded to the same original sent address (a tx fee of .0001 BTC will be deducted).

P.s.: info added to FAQ section.

Current Status for this round:

Jackpot: 3.2999 BTC

Tickets confirmed: 3

TX ID Hash:

Code:
631c2768ddfa2f0f9ae5ed3a574b0c01f8ddda5f3bcc93df7c1a22761233d6eb
efb6aeb65a44889e8ee7dcf8e005033fb140aaea70e0de68b059115cec932c76
14fb2ea883a171b136906f4c9f0becda9e597bb407c18104db10ef06ca36419a

Remaining tickets: 7

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April 19, 2014, 10:34:14 PM
 #28

I'm confused, is this confirmed set up in a way where the site operator cannot know who will win in the future?




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April 19, 2014, 11:38:57 PM
 #29

I'm confused, is this confirmed set up in a way where the site operator cannot know who will win in the future?
It is set up in a way that:

1st: there's your Transaction ID hash that in no way I can predict what will it be.

2st: I have one secret that only I know which is and I do not reveal it to anyone before draw. You cannot predict it.

3rd: There's a (future) secret at "Little Bit at a Time" that you and I are unable to know before it is revealed (after the round is over here).

Those are the (unpredictable) processes in order to generate the final (unpredictable) hashes to pick a winner.

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April 20, 2014, 01:05:01 PM
 #30

I'm confused, is this confirmed set up in a way where the site operator cannot know who will win in the future?
It is set up in a way that:

1st: there's your Transaction ID hash that in no way I can predict what will it be.

2st: I have one secret that only I know which is and I do not reveal it to anyone before draw. You cannot predict it.

3rd: There's a (future) secret at "Little Bit at a Time" that you and I are unable to know before it is revealed (after the round is over here).

Those are the (unpredictable) processes in order to generate the final (unpredictable) hashes to pick a winner.

Correct!

The first is to prevent the operator as the operator from cheating.
The second is to prevent the player from cheating.
The third is to prevent both the operator (either as the operator or pretending to be a player) and the other players from cheating.

No one, not the players, or the site operator can know who will win in the future until after the secrets have been revealed, and then everyone, even none players, can calculate who is the winner.

This is similar to how I ran mine, and almost similar to how an older game was run (which used real life lotto draws as a source of unpredictable numbers.)

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April 20, 2014, 07:44:35 PM
 #31

Thank you Dabs for posting additional detailed info.

For those new to this kind of Provably Fair game, take a look at Dabs own experiment.

The URL is posted right at the end of OP as reference.

Additional note: no one knows who the winner will be, but buying more tickets increase your winning probability for a specific round to get the pot!  Wink

Good luck for everybody!

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April 20, 2014, 10:01:45 PM
 #32

ok well I think I registered appropriately




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April 21, 2014, 06:40:09 PM
 #33

Current Status for this round:

Jackpot: 3.6 BTC

Tickets confirmed: 6

TX ID Hash:

Code:
ce7c6b166e7262fa3892a52e1eaaa1ddadfd0ae9ca35ca63947da5195ce8fbc4
8b473e1a8943de98e565c0b31dd48711be5fa160d005fa3d12e6315887bab8e9
c88b7ae9078e0a2572af75f57a97bad96d99a903f683ee83eaab90ac382d73dc
631c2768ddfa2f0f9ae5ed3a574b0c01f8ddda5f3bcc93df7c1a22761233d6eb
efb6aeb65a44889e8ee7dcf8e005033fb140aaea70e0de68b059115cec932c76
14fb2ea883a171b136906f4c9f0becda9e597bb407c18104db10ef06ca36419a

Remaining tickets: 4

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April 21, 2014, 07:10:59 PM
 #34

Bought them all but sent it from the wrong address and in bulk by mistake... 15ieHJ7eK5gJ5dfeZiWCz5bGkFJS52Pomy  is the address where they were meant to come from and I could have dooglus from just-dice verify this if you need to.




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April 21, 2014, 07:41:12 PM
Last edit: April 22, 2014, 12:01:43 AM by Financisto
 #35

Bought them all but sent it from the wrong address and in bulk by mistake... 15ieHJ7eK5gJ5dfeZiWCz5bGkFJS52Pomy  is the address where they were meant to come from and I could have dooglus from just-dice verify this if you need to.
Exceptionally, I'll refund the last 2 transactions to their respective sent addresses.

Please read the FAQ section (OP) where it is written:

Quote
How is the refund policy?

Payments sent after the deadline will be refunded to the same original sent address (a tx fee of .0001 BTC will be deducted) after the draw.
P.s.: all sent amount different than the multiple of one entry ticket price (.1 BTC) will be considered as donation to the jackpot (not generating additional tickets) and won't be available for refund anymore.

[...]

I wanna buy two or more tickets. May I buy all of them in one single transaction?

I ask you not to do it in one transaction because it changes the hash calculation method. But if you (stubbornly) still do it, I'll have to add numbers to you transaction id hash in order to generate the tickets.

i.e.: you buy 5 tickets with one single transaction and you get a hash transaction of "TXID". Then I'll add the numbers of tickets bought by you after it.

TXID01; TXID02; TXID03; TXID04 and TXID05.

When hashing (draw): sha256sum(TXID00SECRET1SECRET2)

[Update]

Refund sent as stated before...

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April 22, 2014, 01:39:56 AM
 #36

Since you're doing it anyway, you might as well create the "multiple tickets in single transaction" method. If there is only one ticket, then just add one number.

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April 22, 2014, 02:27:22 PM
 #37

That's what is stated above (FAQ). Although I'd rather treat it as an exception than take it as a general rule.

It makes things simpler and easier!  Wink






---

Current status:

Tickets confirmed: 6

Remaining tickets: 4

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April 22, 2014, 10:28:07 PM
 #38

Well my 0.4 coins got stolen by someone else. FML.  I told the OP to have dooglus mediate this one (who is probably the most trusted person in bitcoin) but he sent them back to the hot wallet (which I said was a bad idea) where they were picked up by some random.

I'm done with this game now after this round and my current bid. I realize that even though I did mostly fuck up, it was extremely easy to right and simple customer support issues should be resolved correctly or else there's bound to be future issues which I personally don't want to deal with. But gl to anyone else.




.




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April 23, 2014, 12:48:17 AM
 #39

I think a nice website would really help the bets pickup....
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April 23, 2014, 04:48:11 AM
 #40

Well my 0.4 coins got stolen by someone else. FML.  I told the OP to have dooglus mediate this one (who is probably the most trusted person in bitcoin) but he sent them back to the hot wallet (which I said was a bad idea) where they were picked up by some random.

I'm done with this game now after this round and my current bid. I realize that even though I did mostly fuck up, it was extremely easy to right and simple customer support issues should be resolved correctly or else there's bound to be future issues which I personally don't want to deal with. But gl to anyone else.
I've contacted dooglus in order to find a way to solve your problem.



I think a nice website would really help the bets pickup....
Maybe in the future. We're just testing this idea in it's earlier stages.

Thanks for the suggestion.

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