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Author Topic: 7 days ***Extremely rare and valuable*** fine ruby  (Read 11003 times)
Kluge
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April 15, 2012, 07:16:37 AM
 #21

If someone buys the ruby with GPayPal, and charges back after you've shipped it, what are you going to do?

Btw, your images don't work, lrn2imgur

Nice ruby
Images work fine. Since he's shipping a physical item with a tracking #, were a chargeback initiated, he would stand a pretty good change of having the chargeback reversed.

Don't mix your coins someone said isn't legal
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tiptopgemdotcom
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April 15, 2012, 09:55:05 AM
 #22

Kluge you are right.  I use the FedEx shipping service but I submit the parcel through a high-value courier.  They seal the package and insure it and handle customs for me.  There would be a long paper trail produced by a courier that has an enormous amount of experience transporting jewelry and other high-value parcels like gold bullion.  G4S Securicor is the courier by the way. 

That being said- would I prefer someone pay with bitcoin or bank transfer?  Yes.  In any industry that deals with high-value merchandise bitcoin can be a great tool.  I'm not a hard guy to get along with and if an issue arises with a client they are generally pretty simple to resolve.  Often Paypal and credit cards just create loopholes for scammers instead of the "protection" that they claim to offer.

Thank you Nyaaan, I agree it's very nice.  I haven't seen a better one before or since.  It's not easy to put a price on something that would be so difficult to replace.
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April 16, 2012, 04:38:38 AM
 #23

Wow, great ruby, good luck!

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April 16, 2012, 12:13:36 PM
 #24

~blushing~  thanks very much.  Smiley
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April 22, 2012, 10:29:45 AM
 #25

$10,600 for this amazing Burmese ruby.  As Burma develops good relations with Europe and the United States certainly economic sanctions will be suspended to reward them for their behavior.  This is very likely to stir interest in the ruby that is known worldwide as the pinnacle of color.  There is always more demand for quality Burmese ruby than there is supply, and this not only means prices get substantial support but also ensures long-term value.
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April 25, 2012, 03:50:41 AM
 #26

I am curious as to why yours demands such a higher price than say:

http://www.israel-diamonds.com/product/Ruby/sg/37088.aspx?ReturnUrl=%2fsearch%2frubies%2fdefault.aspx%3fsource%3dgoogle%26cam%3dlr%26group%3d2%26creative%3d2%26gclid%3dCI7Oq82Lz68CFSWFQAodyk3uEA

or

http://www.israel-diamonds.com/product/Ruby/sg/40248.aspx?ReturnUrl=%2fsearch%2frubies%2fdefault.aspx%3fsource%3dgoogle%26cam%3dlr%26group%3d2%26creative%3d2%26gclid%3dCI7Oq82Lz68CFSWFQAodyk3uEA
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April 25, 2012, 04:32:58 AM
 #27

Gamer you have to remember that color is King.  That means that nothing is more important than color in determining value of a colored gemstone.  Who is telling you that Israel Diamond's ruby is pigeon's blood red?  They are.  The seller.  If I was a buyer, that would frighten me.

In the case of the stone that I am offering for sale, Dr. Adolf Peretti is telling you it is pigeon's blood red.  Please google him.  I can assure you that when a stone sells at Christie's or Sotheby's, his name (and signature) are very highly valued.  With colored gemstones the number of stones that you have evaluated is very important.  Most gemstone laboratories can go a decade and never see a pigeon's blood ruby.  Most gemologists go a lifetime and never see a pigeon's blood ruby.  But Israel Diamonds has two of them?  That is curious.  I wonder how they determined that theirs is pigeon's blood.  

Just because a stone is the best you have ever seen does not make it pigeon's blood, nor (in the case of sapphire) royal blue.  These are the very best of the very best.  If you read over the thread you will see references to the Burmese saying that "Asking to see the blood of the pigeon is like asking to see the face of God."  I have been a fixture at wholesale gemstone markets in Thailand for eight years and I have seen it once- and this listing is the result.

Another very important part of evaluating colored gemstones is brilliance.  You can have a pigeon's blood red ruby that is not very brilliant- it doesn't have much "sparkle" or light return.  It "eats light" instead of reflecting it back to the eye.  Not only is my ruby pigeon's blood, but the brilliance is also superb- it is phenomenally beautiful.  If you look at the two rubies mentioned in your post, you will not see any evidence of brilliance whatsoever.  Now it may be that they don't know how to photograph ruby, but I don't think that is the case since they show a .30 carat ruby in "fine red" (emerald shape) and it shows brilliance in all four corners.  Now maybe the photographer was having a bad day when he shot the "pigeon's blood" colored ruby, but then again if it was truly a top color wouldn't he take more time?  Shouldn't he be excited enough about photographing an extraordinary rarity to show it at its best?

Another word on brilliance.  Often with very fine stones the rough is so exorbitantly expensive that the cutter is forced to save as much weight as possible.  Think about this.  One carat is a fifth of a gram.  For the sake of simplicity let's say my ruby weighs 1 carat.  At $10,600 per carat, that would be about $50,000 per gram.  So the more the cutter grinds away from the original crystal, the more dust on his floor that is "worth" $50,000 per gram.  A gram of pure gold is worth what- at $1650 per ounce about $53 per gram.  So the dust that he produces is worth 1,000 times the price of gold.  The owner is standing there sweating and swearing and the cutter wants to save every bit of precious weight that he can.  As a result, you get a stone with no brilliance.  Ruby bends light in a certain way, and there is a science to getting the proper angle for maximum brilliance.  The crystal does not come out of the ground looking like a pear-shaped stone!  They are forced to cut some parts away and leave some of that ridiculously expensive dust on the floor.

If you want to know more about the mechanics of brilliance, look at the section of this page called "Implications of Optical Properties for Gemstones".  It is near the bottom of this page:


http://academic.emporia.edu/abersusa/go340/optical.htm



If you have any more questions or if you want clarification on any points don't hesitate to ask me.  Gemology is not only my profession but it is my hobby, my passion, and my life.  I do the same things whether I am "working" or "on vacation"- I hunt gemstones!  The difference is when I am on vacation I hunt for my personal collection.  Smiley
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April 25, 2012, 07:11:16 AM
 #28

I may be getting in a little over my head here but I believe that GRS don't customarily certify heated stones as natural as they've done with Dave's ruby. Hence another reason for the difference in price as the stones offered on that site have received heat treatment.
Using heat treatments on different types of gems bring out different, often more desirable colors, look at Topaz for example where blue treated stones now have knocked the bottom out of the natural blue topaz market.
Often heat treatments produce "nicer" colors but treated and untreated gems are two completely different kettles of fish. So the gems on offer from that site are nowhere near as rare or exquisite as gems that have come out of the ground in this color naturally. Certified, untreated sapphires for example command massive sometimes 2-300% premiums over heated gems of identical color, cut etc.

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April 25, 2012, 04:26:29 PM
 #29

Thank you for the info, gems are a rather a fascinating thing.
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April 25, 2012, 07:00:42 PM
 #30

Gamer you are right; I could never get tired of learning about gemstones.  It is such a vast topic, and it is full of beauty, intrigue, international trade and different cultures, physics, geology and geography- the list goes on and on.

BigPiggy you are on to something.  There is a big, big difference in how I describe the treatment of this stone and how they describe theirs- but it is not what you think.  Mine is heated and flux-healed, which is true of virtually all ruby from Mong Hsu mining area.  When I say virtually all, I mean 99.999%.  I see that they claim that theirs are only heated.  That is a little bit worrisome.  Now it may be possible- don't get me wrong.  But I think the likelihood that they are only heated is very remote.  I think if you were to buy one of their stones and put it under the microscope, you would see inclusions like this:



Those sticky, drippy inclusions are a sure sign that it is flux-healed.  I wonder if you emailed them and asked- "What treatment does X ruby have?" if they would say it is heated and flux-healed.  The majority of gemstone dealers do not disclose this treatment.  They think that the public "wouldn't understand."  But the fact is, people do understand if you take the time to explain that the treatment has withstood the test of time, is stable, and accounts for the majority of all Burmese ruby.  Curiously enough, right now a major department store chain is being sued for selling ruby without disclosing treatment.  They sold a very, VERY different treatment- lead-glass filling- as natural "heated" ruby.  That is not only a moral lapse, but a very big issue since lead-glass filled ruby can not see a torch or an ultrasonic cleaner.  When these people took their ring in to have a prong re-tipped and it was hit with a jeweler's torch, the glass filling melted and ran out.  When someone took in a ring to have it cleaned, the lead glass nearly disintegrated, leaving deep valleys in the stone.

I would be very skeptical of anyone who is selling Burmese ruby these days and not disclosing the flux-healing.  Price is often a clue, but it is no more than a clue.  If this particular pear-shaped 1.64 carat ruby was unheated, it would bring over $100,000.  This is if all else is equal- color, brilliance, shape- but an unheated Burmese stone.  Now if it was glass-filled, it would bring about $100-$200 at retail.  And with flux-healing, as priced- $10,600.  I hope that puts treatments into perspective a bit.  Also if you are eager to learn more about flux-healing, please take a look at this superb article by Richard Hughes.  Dick was talking about flux-healing when nobody in the trade wanted to talk about it!  But he was a pioneer in getting the word out that this is a solid treatment that should not be feared:

http://www.ruby-sapphire.com/flux_healing_mong_hsu_ruby.htm


By the way, if you are a purist and must have an unheated stone- look seriously at African unheated ruby.  There are some truly beautiful gemstones coming out of Tanzania and Mozambique that are just gorgeous and are far more affordable than Burmese unheated stones.  Or Burmese flux-healed stones for that matter!
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April 25, 2012, 07:04:57 PM
 #31

Kluge you are right.  I use the FedEx shipping service but I submit the parcel through a high-value courier.  They seal the package and insure it and handle customs for me.  There would be a long paper trail produced by a courier that has an enormous amount of experience transporting jewelry and other high-value parcels like gold bullion.  G4S Securicor is the courier by the way. 

That being said- would I prefer someone pay with bitcoin or bank transfer?  Yes.  In any industry that deals with high-value merchandise bitcoin can be a great tool.  I'm not a hard guy to get along with and if an issue arises with a client they are generally pretty simple to resolve.  Often Paypal and credit cards just create loopholes for scammers instead of the "protection" that they claim to offer.

Thank you Nyaaan, I agree it's very nice.  I haven't seen a better one before or since.  It's not easy to put a price on something that would be so difficult to replace.


I can vouch for tiptopgemdotcom.  I've bought a couple gemstones from him already.  I posted a thread about it in Off-Topic. Smiley

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April 25, 2012, 07:13:19 PM
 #32

Just to illustrate my point a bit, this is another ruby that I own that is African origin and weighs 1.24 carats.







I would be happy to get $975 for this ruby.  Does that mean that it is not beautiful?  Of course not.  It is a gorgeous saturated red.  But it's unheated!  It should cost a fortune!  But not always.  It is supply and demand.  There are many times more unheated African rubies in the current market than unheated Burmese.  Because it is more widely available the price is lower.  But is it rare?  Well, certainly- it is very rare.  Most ruby these days is either synthetic or glass-filled.  Both are (or should be) very inexpensive.  They are abundant and can be made in very large quantities.  African unheated ruby is still cut one stone at a time by an artisan.  It is not a mass-produced item.  Surely 99.999% of all ruby needs to be treated.  If you have one that is not treated at all, you have a rarity.  
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April 25, 2012, 07:14:38 PM
 #33

Thank you Tonto!  My wife and I enjoyed finding your stones!
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April 26, 2012, 02:49:18 PM
 #34

$10,500 for the Burmese 1.64ct pear shaped ruby, and $950 for the oval African ruby weighing 1.24cts.
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April 28, 2012, 09:54:05 AM
 #35

$10,400 for the 1.64 carat Burmese ruby, and $900 for the 1.24 carat unheated Mozambican ruby.
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April 30, 2012, 05:57:56 PM
 #36

$10,350 for the 1.64 carat Burmese ruby, and $800 for the 1.24 carat unheated Mozambican ruby.
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May 03, 2012, 05:20:19 AM
 #37

Another discount on both of these rubies:

$10,300 for the 1.64 carat Burmese ruby, and $775 for the 1.24 carat unheated Mozambican ruby.

On the 1.24 carat unheated Mozambican ruby, I will pay registered air mail shipping.  If you want FedEx and insurance, I will charge extra for that.  I always suggest insuring ruby for full retail value- what it would cost in the West to replace the stone.  $2,000 is a reasonable retail price for the Mozambican ruby. 

Wild Fish Gems is one of the most respected names in natural ruby.  Edward Bristol is a fair and honest man, but with such a large inventory of stones his ovehead is much higher than mine.  I rarely have more than a few high-quality rubies in stock at any given time, and this limits my investment but also allows me to sell for modest prices.

http://www.naturalunheatedruby.com/1-01---1-49?cmx=101&start=0

Unlike Edward, I sell most of my ruby to people in the trade instead of the general public.  I have found that if you leave enough room for your customer to make money on the stones you sell, you build a nice network of dealers who buy regularly.  Wild Fish Gems is an excellent retail source of ruby.
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May 05, 2012, 08:10:52 PM
 #38

$10,300 for the 1.64 carat Burmese ruby, and $700 for the 1.24 carat unheated Mozambican ruby.
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May 07, 2012, 07:53:56 PM
 #39

$10,300 for the 1.64 carat Burmese ruby, and $700 for the 1.24 carat unheated Mozambican ruby.

$10,295 on the 1.64 carat Burmese ruby and $675 for the 1.24 carat unheated Mozambican ruby.  And if you want a laboratory report on the 1.24 carat ruby it is not a problem at all. 

I will provide a basic report from Hallmark for no cost with this stone, and if you want a report from a lab like Tokyo Gem Lab it will be $50.  AIGS, GIA, GIT, and GRS are all available too at different prices.  Of course if you want a lab that is not on this list to examine the stone that is not a problem either.  If you want your local jeweler to examine it, or a local gemologist appraiser- we encourage this as well. 

We prefer that you use a major laboratory that has a long-standing reputation in the industry, and if you are getting it appraised we suggest that you use a member of the NAJA (National Association of Jewelry Appraisers) because they tend to have the experience, resources, and knowledge to provide a fair and independent assessment.



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May 11, 2012, 12:06:25 AM
 #40

Well, since you don't seem to be getting the necessary publicity for this fine item, I'll start the bidding! Shall we say... 10 BTC!?

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