this is why big Wallstreet money will NOT be coming in soon

[yomofo]

http://www.reddit.com/r/BitcoinMarkets/comments/22wuw6/lets_discuss_the_opinion_institutional_money_will/cgrie6n

OK folks here's the answer, from someone who spent 10 years in the institutional business on the buy side. It's called "custody". And it's what Bitcoin doesn't have. If you're an institution and you invest in a fund, you don't wire funds to the fund manager. Your funds are wired to a custody bank, that holds your assets (the cash and the stocks the fund manager is buying). The fund manager never handles the cash himself, and never takes possession of the stocks himself. Now apply that to Bitcoin world. A Bitcoin fund manager actually controls the keys himself, he's essentially holding the assets himself. Very very few institutions would (or even could) go for an arrangement like this. Sure Dan Morehead (Pantera) might convince his old friends and clients to do it, but the real money wouldn't (couldn't) touch it. Look at Second Market: they list their "custodian" as "Second Market Holdings".

Somebody will solve this but until they do the flow will be a tiny trickle. Listing the Second Market Fund OTC will be a help, and normal custody arrangements will apply. But if I was the SEC, I'd be looking very carefully at the ownership of assets issue. It's probably also why the Winkelvii have not succeeded in getting their fund past the SEC. Add multi-sig into the mix...and you've got a lawyer's cluster on a grand scale.

[Arghhh]

Great, another institutional naysayer stating why it won't work. I bet he still writes checks.
This reminds me of the mental midgets in the early 90's declaring why the internet won't work.

In other news, Benjamin Lawsky, superintendent of the New York State Department of Financial Services, says why the fuck not?

http://upstart.bizjournals.com/entrepreneurs/hot-shots/2014/03/11/ben-lawsky-to-accept-bitcoin-application.html

"The department also announced today that it intends to propose the regulatory framework under which these applications will be processed no later than the end of the second quarter of 2014."

[Ibian]

Legislation is easy once the political will is there. Long term non-issue.

[nostradamus]

Legislation is easy once the political will money is there. Long term non-issue.

FTFY

[nakaone]

I do not get his argument, read the stuff three time - maybe a language thing. Is he saying that it is a technical problem? A fund manager at a custody bank should not alone be in control of the private key? Multisig solves that doesn't it? Or is it a law problem?

[Cluster2k]

The problem is simple to solve.  Just get someone trustworthy like MtGox to hold the assets.

[bitcoinsrus]

The problem is simple to solve.  Just get someone trustworthy like MtGox to hold the assets.

[Bit_Happy]

Old-school "experts" are often not qualified to comment on Bitcoin.
Also, (some) Wall Street money is already coming in now. 

[msc]

The problem is simple to solve.  Just get someone trustworthy ... to hold the assets.

In all seriousness, yes.  A bank only has to hire someone knowledgeable and trustworthy to help them set up facilities and procedures for safekeeping.

[leopard2]

exactly

The OP is rubbish, the reason why a custody is used is because it is necessary; a funds manager cannot store wheelbarrows full of stocks, bonds or whatever personally

in the case of BTC a simple bank vault will do for cold storage of private keys, and for the fiat a bank account

restricting access to both is a formality

that issue is a non-issue  

[Bit_Happy]

exactly

The OP is rubbish, the reason why a custody is used is because it is necessary; a funds manager cannot store wheelbarrows full of stocks, bonds or whatever personally

in the case of BTC a simple bank vault will do for cold storage of private keys, and for the fiat a bank account

restricting access to both is a formality

that issue is a non-issue  

We need more "problems" to be solved that easily. 

[MNDan]

I think "mental midget" pretty much sums up the OP.

[freedomno1]

So the old school investors are worried they need to take responsibility for someones money instead of spending it and losing it willy nilly
I wonder if anyone else sees it that way 

[TERA]

I don't understand this fetish with getting "wall street into bitcoin" anyway. Everytime I see it brought it up, it's about 'setting something up so people can invest'.   but 'investments' into bitcoin via buying some bitcoin derivative is not what we need and will not help bitcoin. What bitcoin needs is for every day people to have the ability to buy bitcoins (safely) and actually use them as a form of money on the internet, send them to other users, and use bitcoin's features. Bitcoin is supposed to be a form of money - not some kind of mutual fund investment scheme.

It's the same thing with people on this forum. Everyone is always talking about bitcoin like some kind of "investment". But I thought bitcoin was supposed to be the future of money and payments.

[Ibian]

I don't understand this fetish with getting "wall street into bitcoin" anyway. Everytime I see it brought it up, it's about 'setting something up so people can invest'.   but 'investments' into bitcoin via buying some bitcoin derivative is not what we need and will not help bitcoin. What bitcoin needs is for every day people to have the ability to buy bitcoins (safely) and actually use them as a form of money on the internet, send them to other users, and use bitcoin's features. Bitcoin is supposed to be a form of money - not some kind of mutual fund investment scheme.

It's the same thing with people on this forum. Everyone is always talking about bitcoin like some kind of "investment". But I thought bitcoin was supposed to be the future of money and payments.

Bitcoin is what it is. It does what it does and can be used in the ways it can be used. Ideology really has no place except to the individual.

[Elwar]

Wall Street money comes with strings attached.

Let them keep their fiat investments.

[chessnut]

Wall Street money comes with strings attached.

Let them keep their fiat investments.

..... and let them come last.

[TERA]

What a sad state of affairs we are in that we call actually using bitcoin as an electronic payment network and a currency "ideology" - as if these things are second hand to price speculation and pumping. It's as if bitcoin has been swallowed up by a commercial borg of greedy people who want to use it as an advertising slogan just to get as much 'investor' money in, perform speculation, and profit off of other speculators, without neccessarily doing what is actually good for bitcoin and increasing its adoption. All these investment derivatives are just a construct surrounding bitcoin that doesn't really have anything to do with Bitcoin itself.

[pdawg]

...wall street has already jumped in bed.

[Zule]

Old-school "experts" are often not qualified to comment on Bitcoin.
Also, (some) Wall Street money is already coming in now.  

Do you mean now or NOW, like its CCMF time?

[Wary]

Do we really need Wall-Street money for the next rally?
At $5000 capitalization is 65B. At rally time 1$ of fresh money create 10$ of capitalization. It's just 6B of fresh money. It's just 6$ per head of first world's population. No need for Wall-Street yet.

[TERA]

What makes you think you can use the population of the world in a calculation like that?  Most human beings are either too dumb or too poor to even operate a computer let alone operate something like bitcoin.

[dreamspark]

What makes you think you can use the population of the world in a calculation like that?  Most human beings are either too dumb or too poor to even operate a computer let alone operate something like bitcoin.

You cant, its assinine to think that even 50% of the worlds population could be into and use bitcoin as a primary form of currency due to age (young and old), general computer literacy, being poor and no computer access let alone internet access.

In terms of big wall street money the liquidity just isnt in the market for them to enter, big funds don't throw a few mill at something if there buying they're buying in properly.

[YipYip]

YoFudMo or whatever your name is ...its all FUD

enjoy your 5 seconds in the sun

Check out ATLAS ...these guys are the real deal

http://forexmagnates.com/atlas-ats-brings-wall-street-grade-crypto-currency-platform-and-adds-options-trading/

OPTIONS & LEVERAGE ...Yay !!!!!!

FINCEN & MSB (Money service business) like put that in your pipe and smoke it !!!

WALL STREET are already here dufus !!

[chessnut]

yee haa!! let them long and short with leverage!! let them paper short 21 million bitcoins while the others go long 21 million bitcoins, and see what happens.

[Mervyn_Pumpkinhead]

I think that the most important problem will be the bitcoins history and transparency issues.
When bitcoin will get government approval and regulatory framework with institutional funding, and some successful drug dealer/comp. cracker/confidence man dumps 1mil. BTC on the markets, reducing the price to single digits or less, then who do you think the people will blame?
Of course the government and the institutions that channeled the bitcoin investments. The big fish who have it going good already, would not want to take this risk because there is no way of knowing on who owns the most of the old coins and what are his plans with those coins.

[BitOnyx]

Problem is do we need wallstreet money from brokers or money from investors.

More interesting idea is will they adapt bitcoin for transactions.

[sgbett]

YoFudMo or whatever your name is ...its all FUD

enjoy your 5 seconds in the sun

Check out ATLAS ...these guys are the real deal

http://forexmagnates.com/atlas-ats-brings-wall-street-grade-crypto-currency-platform-and-adds-options-trading/

OPTIONS & LEVERAGE ...Yay !!!!!!

FINCEN & MSB (Money service business) like put that in your pipe and smoke it !!!

WALL STREET are already here dufus !!

thats site looks like link spam. just sayin'

not that I think wall st *isn't* coming...

[YipYip]

YoFudMo or whatever your name is ...its all FUD

enjoy your 5 seconds in the sun

Check out ATLAS ...these guys are the real deal

http://forexmagnates.com/atlas-ats-brings-wall-street-grade-crypto-currency-platform-and-adds-options-trading/

OPTIONS & LEVERAGE ...Yay !!!!!!

FINCEN & MSB (Money service business) like put that in your pipe and smoke it !!!

WALL STREET are already here dufus !!

thats site looks like link spam. just sayin'

not that I think wall st *isn't* coming...

hmm... it passed the "GOOGLE" test ...lolz

I think the simple test is to confirm that ATLAS have a fincen/MSB lic etc for USA

A couple of things for the public as i have been getting into day trading FOREX and i thought i would share some thoughts

FOREX being unregulated has had and still does have a similar shady/dodgy practices as does bitcoin etc

FOREX have had their GOX events & apparently as of a couple days ago a major gold bullion broker just went down GOX style ...lolz (story was they where trading gold furtures with their customers money.. and not doing a very good job ..lolz)

My point is which made me feel a bit warm inside is that scammers are everywhere & not just a crypto disease...i know you know but i just wanted to make a point as much to myself as to others

The fudsters have had their 15 seconds of fame and its time for the rocket ship to leave the station

OPTIONS...LEVERAGE ... AWESOME ...these guys maybe 3rd or 4th string  wall street types but hey I am happy with what we have got.. we just need a platform/instrument that is fast and provides a service

[Undone]

It's the same thing with people on this forum. Everyone is always talking about bitcoin like some kind of "investment". But I thought bitcoin was supposed to be the future of money and payments.

Wouldn't it seem though that since its supply is limited, it seems very reasonable to place such speculative weight on its value now?

It seems to be reasonable. Cue the many parallels that bitcoin has with gold. I realize there are also parallels that bitcoin does not have with gold that are relevant, also.

[johnyj]

Now I understand why banks are mostly trustworthy, because they are backed by a bailout (in worst case the government will use tax payer's money to bailout the bank so that investors won't take a hit)

If twins just disappear, no one can compensate the investors, this is a big issue! It seems the institutional investors will not buy twin's ETF, they will buy bitcoins by themselves

[counter]

I think wall street doesn't just want in they want control and first dibs on the market.  That is my feeling on it and I'm talking about the big money not the average investor.

[Wary]

What makes you think you can use the population of the world in a calculation like that?  Most human beings are either too dumb or too poor to even operate a computer let alone operate something like bitcoin.

That's why I said first world. The rich billion. Is it too much to assume that among this billion we can find one percent that's smart enough to figure out how to buy bitcoin and rich enough to spend $600 on it? How many students are there in US and EU? And young professionals?

[Bit_Happy]

What a sad state of affairs we are in that we call actually using bitcoin as an electronic payment network and a currency "ideology" - as if these things are second hand to price speculation and pumping. It's as if bitcoin has been swallowed up by a commercial borg of greedy people who want to use it as an advertising slogan just to get as much 'investor' money in, perform speculation, and profit off of other speculators, without neccessarily doing what is actually good for bitcoin and increasing its adoption. All these investment derivatives are just a construct surrounding bitcoin that doesn't really have anything to do with Bitcoin itself.

Without speculators, the all time high for BTC might still be below 25 cents.

[freedomno1]

What a sad state of affairs we are in that we call actually using bitcoin as an electronic payment network and a currency "ideology" - as if these things are second hand to price speculation and pumping. It's as if bitcoin has been swallowed up by a commercial borg of greedy people who want to use it as an advertising slogan just to get as much 'investor' money in, perform speculation, and profit off of other speculators, without neccessarily doing what is actually good for bitcoin and increasing its adoption. All these investment derivatives are just a construct surrounding bitcoin that doesn't really have anything to do with Bitcoin itself.

Without speculators, the all time high for BTC might still be below 25 cents.

I think their is some utility in the system but your right the speculators are grinding the wheels, but the whole fundamental development to actually make the system useful part adds some value.

[JimboToronto]

I don't understand this fetish with getting "wall street into bitcoin" anyway. Everytime I see it brought it up, it's about 'setting something up so people can invest'.   but 'investments' into bitcoin via buying some bitcoin derivative is not what we need and will not help bitcoin. What bitcoin needs is for every day people to have the ability to buy bitcoins (safely) and actually use them as a form of money on the internet, send them to other users, and use bitcoin's features. Bitcoin is supposed to be a form of money - not some kind of mutual fund investment scheme.

It's the same thing with people on this forum. Everyone is always talking about bitcoin like some kind of "investment". But I thought bitcoin was supposed to be the future of money and payments.

+1

[Deviant1]

LOL, I guess that's why we've got Secondmarket operating now, the Winklevoss twins working on their ETF, as well as countless other individuals in the financial industry holding large amounts of BTC.

[counter]

you know what I don't even want Wall Street money coming in right now I prefer the average joe to get in while things are still low u know?

[chessnut]

you know what I don't even want Wall Street money coming in right now I prefer the average joe to get in while things are still low u know?

exactly....let the billions come last when the supply is dry.

[hodlmybtc]

Agreed, I also want some more coins when they're still in this price range, anyone got some spare fiat?  

[counter]

who cares about them screw em and their insider trading lol.