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Author Topic: Point to mining with 500khash/s ? Does it help or hurt the network?  (Read 4065 times)
khal
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April 13, 2011, 08:31:19 PM
 #21

I'm mining with my eeePC 701 at 200khash/s, impressed ? :p (with other computers, all CPU mining)

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MoonShadow
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April 13, 2011, 10:10:07 PM
 #22

I'm mining with my eeePC 701 at 200khash/s, impressed ? :p (with other computers, all CPU mining)

I am.  I have one of those and I never even though to attempt it.

"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."

- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
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April 14, 2011, 06:40:49 PM
 #23

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If those large miners didn't exist, the difficulty would most certainly be lower, and therefore the blockchain more suseptable to takeover by overwelming computational force.
Can someone explain how difficulty relates to cryptographic strength of the chain?  I thought difficulty was an artificial construct with no bearing on the chain, simply designed to maintain a constant rate of bitcoin production despite massive computational power.  Difficulty just makes the hashes less likely to be found, right?  Does that make the block chain stronger?

With my assumption, it seems that mining pools make it hard for the little guy to compete, centralizing the Bitcoin generation in the hands of the few, which seems against the decentralized goal of Bitcoin as a whole.

Anyway, if Steve Gibson can get lucky enough to get 50 BTC with a Core i7, then I can get lucky enough to get 50 BTC with my GTX460.  I just have to be patient.

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April 14, 2011, 06:58:58 PM
 #24

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If those large miners didn't exist, the difficulty would most certainly be lower, and therefore the blockchain more suseptable to takeover by overwelming computational force.
Can someone explain how difficulty relates to cryptographic strength of the chain? 


The difficulty is a relative metric that tells us how powerful the network hashing power is over a two week period.  The harder the hashing is, the more difficult it becomes for an attacker to overwelm the blockchain by brute force computation.

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   Difficulty just makes the hashes less likely to be found, right?  Does that make the block chain stronger?
Yes.

"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."

- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
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April 14, 2011, 10:42:04 PM
 #25

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The harder the hashing is, the more difficult it becomes for an attacker to overwelm the blockchain by brute force computation.
Is it correct to restate "overwhelm the blockchain" as:
The harder the hashing is, the more difficult it becomes for an attacker to create tons of Bitcoins, potentially exceeding the designed creation rate which difficulty regulates by brute force computation.
Or is there something else about the blockchain which could be overwhelmed by brute force?  Thanks.

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Garrett Burgwardt
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April 15, 2011, 12:35:03 AM
 #26

If an attacker has a majority of the network hashing power there are a few things they could do, but the goal is to make it so prohibitively expensive that if they did that it would just make more sense to straight up mine for coins.
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April 15, 2011, 12:37:09 AM
 #27

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The harder the hashing is, the more difficult it becomes for an attacker to overwelm the blockchain by brute force computation.
Is it correct to restate "overwhelm the blockchain" as:
The harder the hashing is, the more difficult it becomes for an attacker to create tons of Bitcoins, potentially exceeding the designed creation rate which difficulty regulates by brute force computation.


Actually, no.  It's not possible to "counterfit" bitcoins, nor to exceed the designed creation rate.  That's a little oversimplified, but in practice it's impossible
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Or is there something else about the blockchain which could be overwhelmed by brute force?  Thanks.

The blockchain could be overhelmed by any attacker that can outhash the whole of the honest network, and for as long as the attacker is willing to keep it up, the attacker could (under the right conditions) rewrite the most recent block or prevent transactions from being processed.  To rewrite farther back into the blockchain history requires significantly more hashing power than the whole of the honest network.  To rewrite as far back as the 100 block requirement to spend 'new' coins would require orders of magnitude more power than the whole of the honest network.  Which is why the system doesn't let new block rewards be spent until they are 100 blocks deep.  If such an attack were to occur, the most recent blocks might get overwritten and their rewards taken by the attacker, and teh attacker would be able to retake coins that he recently owned and spent; but at least the number of people affected would be limited to very few and the rest of the network would recover without much fuss.  However, anyone with that much hashing power is better off to hash honestly for the future block rewards than try to reverse recent ones to take rewards away from honest miners.  And if this is ever done, the addresses of the attacker would be widely known, because the evidence would be right there in the blockchain.

"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."

- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
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April 15, 2011, 04:51:41 AM
 #28

Now THAT is interesting.  Thanks for the clarification.

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Pieter Wuille
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April 15, 2011, 09:25:34 AM
 #29

In a sense, you are right. The difficulty is just an artificial construct to maintain a more or less constant block generation rate. However, the thing that is beneficial to the network is (honest) hashing power, and more hashing power will result indirectly in higher difficulty.

aka sipa, core dev team

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