Next ASIC upgrade?

[kthejung]

About how many months between wave releases of new asics is it?

Toward the end of last year Cointerra's Terraminer IV caught my eye when they promised 2 T/H for $6,000.  At the time, only the May batch was available since Jan, Feb, Mar, and Apr batches were already sold out.  I was waiting until I saved up enough money to get it but then it sold out.  I knew getting the June batch would be too late so I bought coins instead.  While I was holding on coins, I found out about Bitmain's Antminer S1's for the first time.  The people who bought these machines already made their ROI by March, before Cointerra even delivered their 3rd and 4th batches.  I traded my coins for Antminers in the middle of March and am in the process of at least trying to make my ROI back.  The moral of this story is that even though pre-orders sometime seem like a good deal, there is no predicting what other miners may come out before the pre-orders are released.  I am glad that I was not able to order the May batch of Cointerra's machine since it will not even come close to getting the ROI back at the price of $6,000 and I would still be waiting to mine instead of being able to mine with the Antminers right now.

[blackvoice]

Are we done developing better asics? I havent heard any new news of upgrades... Are we about done? Have we decided we cant fit any more hashing power into such as small chip and it be power effective? Or have I just not been paying attention? Also, if there is a new wave coming out, what are the specs going to be (TH/s, Power consumption, etc.)?

I think 10T machine will coom soon

We should prepare for it

[RentaMouse]

I got the impression that so far most of the ASIC advances have been from moving to more advanced production methods, from 65/55nm chips down to 28nm which seems to be the current generation. The actual design of a SHA256 hashing ASIC is pretty simple so there isnt much room for optimisation there, the next generation of ASIC chips may be the last to offer any significant improvement in TH/kW and initial cost per TH. Of course then it comes down to whoever can keep their power/cooling/maintenance cost the lowest which favours the datacentres and centralisation of hashpower which noone wants. Although there might then be potential for someone to produce a USB type miner/hardware wallet combo for bitcoin users to run at home - generates income and keeps your btc secure whilst decentralising the network

Anyway, my point being that after this summer's new ASIC chips are released and shipped we might see the hashrate level off and track the btc/USD price, at least until 12nm or whatever ASIC fabs become available.

[aerobatic]

I got the impression that so far most of the ASIC advances have been from moving to more advanced production methods, from 65/55nm chips down to 28nm which seems to be the current generation. The actual design of a SHA256 hashing ASIC is pretty simple so there isnt much room for optimisation there, the next generation of ASIC chips may be the last to offer any significant improvement in TH/kW and initial cost per TH. Of course then it comes down to whoever can keep their power/cooling/maintenance cost the lowest which favours the datacentres and centralisation of hashpower which noone wants. Although there might then be potential for someone to produce a USB type miner/hardware wallet combo for bitcoin users to run at home - generates income and keeps your btc secure whilst decentralising the network

Anyway, my point being that after this summer's new ASIC chips are released and shipped we might see the hashrate level off and track the btc/USD price, at least until 12nm or whatever ASIC fabs become available.

there's multiple ways for people to improve the asics.   one way is to get to smaller geometry (65nm to 40nm to 28nm, to 20nm to 16nm etc)...   another way is to improve the circuit or architecture...  another way is to optimise the design (using custom cells, or even going full-custom), which allows you to use smaller, lower power transistors.   it may be a simple circuit but there's still ways to optimise it and for companies to show their innovation and engineering prowess.  sometimes they optimise around delivery date, sometimes they optimise for density, or for power consumption... there's lots of dynamics at work and opportunities for creativity.

[novello]

yes. soon knc will be setting up their own mining farm.

knc already has a private mining farm.

As to the ASIC's Spondoolies-Tech has a 5.4 TH machine in the works due to be ready to ship in August of this year. They also have said they are working on their third generation miner that would have so much TH that other miners will be obsolete.

In war it's a fatal mistake to assume that you are a lot smarter than your enemies. History has proven this over and over.

The commercial world is exactly the same, and arrogance usually gets rewarded with failure and defeat. If the Israelis think they're the only people around that can design efficient asics, then they're in for a rather rude awakening.

[kthejung]

yes. soon knc will be setting up their own mining farm.

knc already has a private mining farm.

As to the ASIC's Spondoolies-Tech has a 5.4 TH machine in the works due to be ready to ship in August of this year. They also have said they are working on their third generation miner that would have so much TH that other miners will be obsolete.

In war it's a fatal mistake to assume that you are a lot smarter than your enemies. History has proven this over and over.

The commercial world is exactly the same, and arrogance usually gets rewarded with failure and defeat. If the Israelis think they're the only people around that can design efficient asics, then they're in for a rather rude awakening.

5.4 T/H at the end of August will not mean sh*t.  It will only generate about 7 bitcoins before becoming obsolete... and how many bitcoins did it take to buy the machine?

most reliable profit calculator I've found https://cex.io/calc

[Searing]

yes. soon knc will be setting up their own mining farm.

knc already has a private mining farm.

As to the ASIC's Spondoolies-Tech has a 5.4 TH machine in the works due to be ready to ship in August of this year. They also have said they are working on their third generation miner that would have so much TH that other miners will be obsolete.

In war it's a fatal mistake to assume that you are a lot smarter than your enemies. History has proven this over and over.

The commercial world is exactly the same, and arrogance usually gets rewarded with failure and defeat. If the Israelis think they're the only people around that can design efficient asics, then they're in for a rather rude awakening.

5.4 T/H at the end of August will not mean sh*t.  It will only generate about 7 bitcoins before becoming obsolete... and how many bitcoins did it take to buy the machine?

most reliable profit calculator I've found https://cex.io/calc

well mining 'legal' under IRS rules last year and this year with deductions of 50% OFF  full equip costs 1st year rest in 5 years this was 2013 (and likely to pass again 2014 in congress i heard on the news today) 2014.....with the equip last year and in the pipe this year...it will work out ..at least for what I've done so far (I like to mine)

with electricity  and depreciation of tax burden by use of equip purchase  up to 100% for 5 years (i assume bitcoin will last that long as well as I hold and hope btc price per coin goes way up!) *heh* * my CPA says "I'm really just a Farmer" lol*

If I can  basically keep 6 coin out of every 10 coin I make. if i can run the equip out to the 100% depreciation still a pretty good deal at 50% off the 1st year
even if i find that ambitious in the long run...mining wise...i pay some to the IRS after equip is deducted but pay 2.3x as much in elec so not a big deal
the taxes paid for equipment  for the depreciation stuff imho

how the guidelines are set up as of last year and this year ...i expect it in USA taxes to change in 2016 but will play this game 'legal' as long as possible

only real regret in my area no one else to bitcoin mine co-op with..this would be a lot more fun with a group of guys in the biz together...would be a hoot!

Searing

[BSIG]

yes. soon knc will be setting up their own mining farm.

knc already has a private mining farm.

As to the ASIC's Spondoolies-Tech has a 5.4 TH machine in the works due to be ready to ship in August of this year. They also have said they are working on their third generation miner that would have so much TH that other miners will be obsolete.

In war it's a fatal mistake to assume that you are a lot smarter than your enemies. History has proven this over and over.

The commercial world is exactly the same, and arrogance usually gets rewarded with failure and defeat. If the Israelis think they're the only people around that can design efficient asics, then they're in for a rather rude awakening.

5.4 T/H at the end of August will not mean sh*t.  It will only generate about 7 bitcoins before becoming obsolete... and how many bitcoins did it take to buy the machine?

most reliable profit calculator I've found https://cex.io/calc

well mining 'legal' under IRS rules last year and this year with deductions of 50% OFF  full equip costs 1st year rest in 5 years this was 2013 (and likely to pass again 2014 in congress i heard on the news today) 2014.....with the equip last year and in the pipe this year...it will work out ..at least for what I've done so far (I like to mine)

with electricity  and depreciation of tax burden by use of equip purchase  up to 100% for 5 years (i assume bitcoin will last that long as well as I hold and hope btc price per coin goes way up!) *heh* * my CPA says "I'm really just a Farmer" lol*

If I can  basically keep 6 coin out of every 10 coin I make. if i can run the equip out to the 100% depreciation still a pretty good deal at 50% off the 1st year
even if i find that ambitious in the long run...mining wise...i pay some to the IRS after equip is deducted but pay 2.3x as much in elec so not a big deal
the taxes paid for equipment  for the depreciation stuff imho

how the guidelines are set up as of last year and this year ...i expect it in USA taxes to change in 2016 but will play this game 'legal' as long as possible

only real regret in my area no one else to bitcoin mine co-op with..this would be a lot more fun with a group of guys in the biz together...would be a hoot!

Searing

there will always be faster hardware, I take the middle road and go from there.

 

[Somekindabitcoin]

yes. soon knc will be setting up their own mining farm.

knc already has a private mining farm.

As to the ASIC's Spondoolies-Tech has a 5.4 TH machine in the works due to be ready to ship in August of this year. They also have said they are working on their third generation miner that would have so much TH that other miners will be obsolete.

In war it's a fatal mistake to assume that you are a lot smarter than your enemies. History has proven this over and over.

The commercial world is exactly the same, and arrogance usually gets rewarded with failure and defeat. If the Israelis think they're the only people around that can design efficient asics, then they're in for a rather rude awakening.

5.4 T/H at the end of August will not mean sh*t.  It will only generate about 7 bitcoins before becoming obsolete... and how many bitcoins did it take to buy the machine?

most reliable profit calculator I've found https://cex.io/calc

It's actually $5,350 for one 5.4 TH miner. It can actually go up to 6.5 TH, but 5.4 is the guaranteed Hash rate. I'm buying 4 of them which is over 20 Th. The hash rate does not increase 50% every month. It barely jumps 2 billion ever month. You can say what you want, but i'm the big miner here. You're the guy with the antminers. I'm here with the huge ass money generators. I should return over >50 BTC. I'm going to keep 50% and spend the other 50% to buy more miners. Only 11 bitcoins to buy the miners...

[kthejung]

yes. soon knc will be setting up their own mining farm.

knc already has a private mining farm.

As to the ASIC's Spondoolies-Tech has a 5.4 TH machine in the works due to be ready to ship in August of this year. They also have said they are working on their third generation miner that would have so much TH that other miners will be obsolete.

5.4 T/H at the end of August will not mean sh*t.  It will only generate about 7 bitcoins before becoming obsolete... and how many bitcoins did it take to buy the machine?

most reliable profit calculator I've found https://cex.io/calc

It's actually $5,350 for one 5.4 TH miner. It can actually go up to 6.5 TH, but 5.4 is the guaranteed Hash rate. I'm buying 4 of them which is over 20 Th. The hash rate does not increase 50% every month. It barely jumps 2 billion ever month. You can say what you want, but i'm the big miner here. You're the guy with the antminers. I'm here with the huge ass money generators. I should return over >50 BTC. I'm going to keep 50% and spend the other 50% to buy more miners. Only 11 bitcoins to buy the miners...

At the time of the original post, the price of bitcoin was about $450.  For what you would pay to pre-order the spondoolies, you can just buy 47.5 bitcoins outright; without paying additional costs for the huge electric bill.  Have fun with your huge ass heat and noise generators.

[novello]

To get back on the original point of this post, please have a look and good read at this article:

http://www.extremetech.com/computing/178529-this-is-what-the-death-of-moores-law-looks-like-euv-paused-indefinitely-450mm-wafers-halted-and-no-path-beyond-14nm

It's very interesting to say the least!

[Searing]

yes. soon knc will be setting up their own mining farm.

knc already has a private mining farm.

As to the ASIC's Spondoolies-Tech has a 5.4 TH machine in the works due to be ready to ship in August of this year. They also have said they are working on their third generation miner that would have so much TH that other miners will be obsolete.

5.4 T/H at the end of August will not mean sh*t.  It will only generate about 7 bitcoins before becoming obsolete... and how many bitcoins did it take to buy the machine?

most reliable profit calculator I've found https://cex.io/calc

It's actually $5,350 for one 5.4 TH miner. It can actually go up to 6.5 TH, but 5.4 is the guaranteed Hash rate. I'm buying 4 of them which is over 20 Th. The hash rate does not increase 50% every month. It barely jumps 2 billion ever month. You can say what you want, but i'm the big miner here. You're the guy with the antminers. I'm here with the huge ass money generators. I should return over >50 BTC. I'm going to keep 50% and spend the other 50% to buy more miners. Only 11 bitcoins to buy the miners...

At the time of the original post, the price of bitcoin was about $450.  For what you would pay to pre-order the spondoolies, you can just buy 47.5 bitcoins outright; without paying additional costs for the huge electric bill.  Have fun with your huge ass heat and noise generators.

yeah you may have a point i'm in the usa mining legally (don't get me started on how that happened but it got the bank and irs off my bank seeing my 'legal' bitcoin tax return for 2013..so i'm taking it as a win..sorry....the zombies got me the rest of you run away


anway I DO have to pay 25% of whatever I mine at the time it hits my block address as income....I can however take off ALL in equip depreciation last year it was 50% this year may be the same...usually 20% for 5 years (hey as long as guidelines stay as they are written)...so SUPPOSEDLY I can get a lot of my equip costs back..but in my unigue case I bought equipment as a hedge at the first of the year due to the fact I make 50 to 75 coins mining and btc tops 1k a btc..i could be in some serious hurt to the tax man

it an't much....but it is a hedge as long as i'm legal and/or until they change the rules back to 20% captial gains on coin only and equip risk is your own....etc

last year anyone will mine at home anyway imho

again my situation is unigue..backed into being legal and it saved my butt...but then again....looks likely i'll pull out of this ok...IF BTC survives as a business for next 3 yrs or so
etc etc...if not i'll just make a bigger splash then you guys when i fall out of orbit (good to have goals)

so it goes..i do know some people that trade gold/silver that mine legal for their other biz reasons etc but there are few of us in usa in this position most are sitting imho
till 2015 when rules hopefully (likely) will be more sensible and then they will 'gasp' announce to the IRS what a good year they had was my plan..alas

remember me when you get past the guard towers and to the trees...i be caught...(damn it)

Searing

[jimmothy]

If I could have convinced my parents back then that Bitcoin was a great investment, I would just buy the bitcoins instead of the miners. Today I'd probably own a huge mining farm.

You can say what you want, but i'm the big miner here.

Lol..

[Somekindabitcoin]

Hey bitcoin is at a nice 578 price! Probably just going to sell my preorders and buy and sell all day long! Day trade!

[Somekindabitcoin]

If I could have convinced my parents back then that Bitcoin was a great investment, I would just buy the bitcoins instead of the miners. Today I'd probably own a huge mining farm.

You can say what you want, but i'm the big miner here.

Lol..

Yes that was back in April. It's a month later already almost June. I own lots of ant miners that I leave in a data center in Quincy, Washington for 0.03 Cents a KW. I've profited almost 43 bitcoins within the last month sir.

[jimmothy]

If I could have convinced my parents back then that Bitcoin was a great investment, I would just buy the bitcoins instead of the miners. Today I'd probably own a huge mining farm.

You can say what you want, but i'm the big miner here.

Lol..

Yes that was back in April. It's a month later already almost June. I own lots of ant miners that I leave in a data center in Quincy, Washington for 0.03 Cents a KW. I've profited almost 43 bitcoins within the last month sir.

I'm confused. Only a month ago you had no "big mine" and you're already at 40btc profit?

How exactly did you go from needing parents permission to buying $100k+ worth of hardware?

Edit: After some serious sleuthing it appears we are dealing with a multimillionaire or a chronic bullshitter.

I have a budget of 15 Million.

I plan on buying 100,000 of those 28nm A1 Chips which would give me that 25 petahash speed or up to 40 petahash speed. That hits half of my budget. I also have a separate budget for power, but that is something else.

I have tons of bitfury chips, but I need the boards at a wholesale price. If anyone has boards, let me know and I will buy them. Looking at around 5 bucks each.

This will be my first purchase of a miner ever and the rep meter on you guys is skyrocketing

I'm thinking of buying around 1100 chips. Could you direct me to the PCB design as well and give me a quote on 1100?

(lol. custom pcbs for 1100 chips)

Well, I hope you guys learned something from this. The moral? You can sell things you bought for around a thousand dollars and who knows how big of a fortune you could make.

Heh. Told my parents about you guys since she was trying to find a good and reputable company. I told my mom to buy from you guys because it's much more worth it than other sellers

You guys have DIY kits along with your 187 gh/s chips and your third gen pickaxe ones? If you don't have the kits, how much for the chips in bulk? I'm thinking around 10-1000 chips. Could you pm me the price for em? Thanks.

10 chips is some serious bulk.

I was looking for the design so I can get it fabricated and assembled. I have 25,000 A3255 chips. I wanted to put em on boards, get my pi's and put it into a two phase immersion tank. It should give me around 95-100 TH/S of power and I think the price would be between 25-30k. I bought the chips for the price of 1 KNC Neptune and a mini neptune. Now I just need the boards and such.

I will buy a bulk amount of those PCB's. Tell me price per thousand and where you're shipping from. I'm in hawaii. Direct me to an assembly service as well. I want to place them in my immersion tank. Thanks.

Sorry for the off-topic posts but this is just too much fun.

[Somekindabitcoin]

Have your fun Jimmothy. I don't talk real business on the forum. Also you're a stalker!

[kthejung]

Have your fun Jimmothy. I don't talk real business on the forum. Also you're a stalker!

Somekindabitcoin =      multimillionaire + lives at home with mom  = troll

[kthejung]

I stand corrected on one aspect of my earlier posts.  SP10 by Spondoolies seems like a slim margin of profit is possible; since the price of bitcoin now is almost $600.  At this price, it is slightly better to buy the machine + pay for electric bills than to just buy coins outright.  However, upon reading reviews, it sounds like the SP10 is much louder than other miners and some people have buyer's remorse over the noise.

[nkocevar]

I stand corrected on one aspect of my earlier posts.  SP10 by Spondoolies seems like a slim margin of profit is possible; since the price of bitcoin now is almost $600.  At this price, it is slightly better to buy the machine + pay for electric bills than to just buy coins outright.  However, upon reading reviews, it sounds like the SP10 is much louder than other miners and some people have buyer's remorse over the noise.

Do you know if this is still the case? and if so how much is the miner again?