BTC transfer are too damn slow!

[bountygiver]

BTC can still transfer like creditcard, there's coinbase where you can put your BTC there and merchants accepting BTC using coinbase can insta confirm your transactions, BUT just like paypal you're giving a third party control of your money.

[bryant.coleman]

Yesterday I wanted to trade some coins in localbitcoins.com. I was nervous to start with, as I had heard of the robberies happening there. Unfortunately, I had to wait for almost 2 hours, before the coins could be traded. Localbitcoins needs 3 confirmations to make the funds trade-enabled. It was such a frustrating wait.

[activebiz]

Its not that slow for me as long as i pay the fee, my tx shows as high priority

[Dogtanian]

Yesterday I wanted to trade some coins in localbitcoins.com. I was nervous to start with, as I had heard of the robberies happening there. Unfortunately, I had to wait for almost 2 hours, before the coins could be traded. Localbitcoins needs 3 confirmations to make the funds trade-enabled. It was such a frustrating wait.

Hope you're not going to sell them for Paypal haha. Have you sold them yet?

[Ayers]

Its not that slow for me as long as i pay the fee, my tx shows as high priority

other altcoin are surely faster, this is the only thing that i like about them

[inBitweTrust]

Time for a FIX.

This can be fixed with a Bitcoin sidechain where you have a separate blockchain that confirms in 10 seconds and the orphan mining problems isn't a big deal because most miners can simply mine bitcoin and than convert to a faster sidechain if they wish.

Alt's will become obsolete for the most part once sidechains are introduced.

[Dogtanian]

Its not that slow for me as long as i pay the fee, my tx shows as high priority

other altcoin are surely faster, this is the only thing that i like about them

Which ones? They might say they have faster confirmations, but Bitcoin is still instant.

[Lauda]

Yesterday I wanted to trade some coins in localbitcoins.com. I was nervous to start with, as I had heard of the robberies happening there. Unfortunately, I had to wait for almost 2 hours, before the coins could be traded. Localbitcoins needs 3 confirmations to make the funds trade-enabled. It was such a frustrating wait.

2 hours for 3 confirmations? Doesn't sound right.

[murraypaul]

There is no trolling.  It's the truth and you know it.  Confirms or not, it's the same f---ing thing.  SLOW

The problem is that when trolls complain, they don't make the effort to compare the same f---ing thing.

How long does it take for a credit card (or debit) transaction to become irreversible for the merchant?
How long does it take for a PayPal transaction to become irreversible for the merchant?
How long does it take for an ACH transfer to become irreversible for the merchant?

I'm not a merchant, so I don't care in the least.
For a consumer, the first two are effectively instant.

[bryant.coleman]

Hope you're not going to sell them for Paypal haha. Have you sold them yet?

No one in their right mind would sell their coins for Paypal USD. I sold them to another guy who transferred the cash to my bank account. Paid a 5% commission to him though. Not a bad deal!

[DannyHamilton]

There is no trolling.  It's the truth and you know it.  Confirms or not, it's the same f---ing thing.  SLOW

The problem is that when trolls complain, they don't make the effort to compare the same f---ing thing.

How long does it take for a credit card (or debit) transaction to become irreversible for the merchant?
How long does it take for a PayPal transaction to become irreversible for the merchant?
How long does it take for an ACH transfer to become irreversible for the merchant?

I'm not a merchant, so I don't care in the least.
For a consumer, the first two are effectively instant.

They are only effectively instant because the merchant it allowing you to walk off with the merchandise even though the transaction can be reversed.

The merchant can do the same thing with bitcoin, and generally do so with less risk. Some do exactly that.

Unfortunately, many merchants don't realize this.  Therefore this isn't a technical problem with bitcoin that needs to be fixed, it's an educational problem with the merchants who don't understand the risks they are taking with one form of payment (paypal and credit card), and overemphasize the risks they think they are avoiding with another form of payment (bitcoin).

[Dogtanian]

Hope you're not going to sell them for Paypal haha. Have you sold them yet?

No one in their right mind would sell their coins for Paypal USD. I sold them to another guy who transferred the cash to my bank account. Paid a 5% commission to him though. Not a bad deal!

There's plenty of people on localbitcoins who do.

[RodeoX]

... it's an educational problem with the merchants who don't understand the risks they are taking with one form of payment (paypal and credit card), and overemphasis the risks they think they are avoiding with another form of payment (bitcoin).

+1
They are acting rationally. Merchants don't understand bitcoin and are hesitatant to expose themselves to any risks they hear about. The reality is that it is not cost effective for a criminal to crete a fake transaction for a small purchase. If I were selling a sailboat, then I would wait for full confirmation.

[murraypaul]

There is no trolling.  It's the truth and you know it.  Confirms or not, it's the same f---ing thing.  SLOW

The problem is that when trolls complain, they don't make the effort to compare the same f---ing thing.

How long does it take for a credit card (or debit) transaction to become irreversible for the merchant?
How long does it take for a PayPal transaction to become irreversible for the merchant?
How long does it take for an ACH transfer to become irreversible for the merchant?

I'm not a merchant, so I don't care in the least.
For a consumer, the first two are effectively instant.

They are only effectively instant because the merchant it allowing you to walk off with the merchandise even though the transaction can be reversed.

The merchant can do the same thing with bitcoin, and generally do so with less risk. Some do exactly that.

No, they do it with considerably more risk.
A credit card company knows who their customer is and where they live, and has verified that information.
Fraudulently claiming you didn't use your card when you actually did is a criminal offence, and there is a pretty good chance, in face to face transactions, that if investigated you would be found out.
Bitcoin is anonymous. Once you walk out the door with your product, the merchant has no way of tracing you.

[jonald_fyookball]

No, it's still less risk with bitcoin since you can't fake or forge a transaction, nor reverse one.

[murraypaul]

No, it's still less risk with bitcoin since you can't fake or forge a transaction, nor reverse one.

Until it has been confirmed, yes you can reverse it, with a successful double-spend attack.

[DannyHamilton]

No, it's still less risk with bitcoin since you can't fake or forge a transaction, nor reverse one.

Until it has been confirmed, yes you can reverse it, with a successful double-spend attack.

And do you have any reliable statistics about what percent of bitcoin transactions are currently reversed by successful double-spend attacks?

If not, I'll take your claims of "considerably more risk" with the same serious as I take most of the other FUD in this thread.

[Meuh6879]

2 hours for 3 confirmations? Doesn't sound right.

since farm mining is ON ... generation of block is hazardous.
for a same ammount with same fee, i have 15min or 40min for the 1 confirmation.

[murraypaul]

No, it's still less risk with bitcoin since you can't fake or forge a transaction, nor reverse one.

Until it has been confirmed, yes you can reverse it, with a successful double-spend attack.

And do you have any reliable statistics about what percent of bitcoin transactions are currently reversed by successful double-spend attacks?

No, but we have seen it on a moderate scale at least twice, with GHash.io's attack on BetCoinDice and the recent malleability issues.

If not, I'll take your claims of "considerably more risk" with the same serious as I take most of the other FUD in this thread.

Just to be clear, my considerably more risk comment is not general Bitcoin FUD, it was in response to this:

They are only effectively instant because the merchant it allowing you to walk off with the merchandise even though the transaction can be reversed.

The merchant can do the same thing with bitcoin, and generally do so with less risk. Some do exactly that.

The situation of a face-to-face transactions with the customer leaving with the goods and not waiting for a single confirmation.

And I think that is more risky that the equivalent credit card transaction, whether the store has confirmation from the CC company that the card is valid and can check customer ID to match it to the card. Even more so with chip-and-pin cards, whether the customer has to demonstrate that they have the 'private key' to the credit card.

Conversely, a Bitcoin transaction with a single confirmation is safer for the merchant than a credit card transaction.

To quote gmaxwell:

Taking irreversible actions on unconfirmed transactions is not safe. This is not news.

[bryant.coleman]

There's plenty of people on localbitcoins who do.

Not plenty of them, but around 6 or 7. One of them had more than 480 confirmed trades. I wonder how this was even possible. Is it possible to register on Paypal with a pre-paid VISA debit card?