goose20
Legendary
 Offline
Activity: 1173
Merit: 1000
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April 21, 2014, 01:27:30 PM |
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No one will get any btc back.
Since the btc can't be separately identified (Similar to oil in an oil tanker owned by many 'customers' etc Google 'retention of title'), any btc held will be classed as an asset and auctioned off.
The 1st hand to get paid is that of the liquidator. They will spend thousands of man hours investigating and reporting etc etc at high hourly rates and eat up most/all of the assets.
You guys need to remember the theory of an insolvency case and the actual practice are two very different things.
The theory goes an independent qualified person takes over to secure any assets, realize those assets, and pay out creditors under a prescribed priority scale.
In practice, any assets realized are taken by the insolvency practitioner as the 1st one on that priority scale. They do work to eat up those funds. They stop work once there is no more funds. Funds are rarely paid back to unsecured creditors.
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Every time a block is mined, a certain amount of BTC (called the
subsidy) is created out of thin air and given to the miner. The
subsidy halves every four years and will reach 0 in about 130 years.
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kooke
Sr. Member
Offline
Activity: 448
Merit: 250
Bitcoin super-duper-mega-ultra-hyper-node
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April 21, 2014, 01:58:19 PM |
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Don't tell them the ugly truth. Gox's liquidation is bullish and people are going to get at least 20% of their btc back, which is going to encourage them to buy more coins, followed by a rise to the moon before we blast off to mars and beyond  Some people try to twist everything into great news for bitcoin... |
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inca
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1176
Merit: 1000
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April 21, 2014, 02:25:30 PM |
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Thanks for your responses. I still fear that the Japanese Bankruptcy Court can do whatever it wants to do with the 200,000 BTC it controls. In other words, they could sell them and return the proceeds to creditors or return the BTC to its creditors, pro rata. If the Court succeeded in selling the 200,000 coins, it would brutalize BTC's price. Why is this not a real possibility? I'm not trolling for cheap coins, (I'm already all in at a average cost of approx. $495! Plus, I can't control the Court's decision!) I'm just very curious about pressing BTC matters that could impact us all.
You seriously think the bankruptcy court is going to dump 200,000 coins on the open market to achieve a best sale price? Perhaps you should apply for a job at the CFTC. |
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Odalv
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1400
Merit: 1000
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April 21, 2014, 02:38:44 PM |
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Thanks for your responses. I still fear that the Japanese Bankruptcy Court can do whatever it wants to do with the 200,000 BTC it controls. In other words, they could sell them and return the proceeds to creditors or return the BTC to its creditors, pro rata. If the Court succeeded in selling the 200,000 coins, it would brutalize BTC's price. Why is this not a real possibility? I'm not trolling for cheap coins, (I'm already all in at a average cost of approx. $495! Plus, I can't control the Court's decision!) I'm just very curious about pressing BTC matters that could impact us all.
You seriously think the bankruptcy court is going to dump 200,000 coins on the open market to achieve a best sale price? Perhaps you should apply for a job at the CFTC. Lol, court will be dumping coins on Huobi and BTC-e. :-) |
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nuff
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April 21, 2014, 02:51:37 PM |
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No one will get any btc back.
Since the btc can't be separately identified (Similar to oil in an oil tanker owned by many 'customers' etc Google 'retention of title'), any btc held will be classed as an asset and auctioned off.
The 1st hand to get paid is that of the liquidator. They will spend thousands of man hours investigating and reporting etc etc at high hourly rates and eat up most/all of the assets.
You guys need to remember the theory of an insolvency case and the actual practice are two very different things.
The theory goes an independent qualified person takes over to secure any assets, realize those assets, and pay out creditors under a prescribed priority scale.
In practice, any assets realized are taken by the insolvency practitioner as the 1st one on that priority scale. They do work to eat up those funds. They stop work once there is no more funds. Funds are rarely paid back to unsecured creditors.
Well then, that's the worst possible outcome - being business as usual, following usual protocol to just liquidate everything and the liquidators get a fair chunk, the buyers of below-market-price btcs getting a great deal, the users get nothing. I do hope the Japanese government is not that naive |
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nuff
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April 21, 2014, 03:05:46 PM |
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Thanks for your responses. I still fear that the Japanese Bankruptcy Court can do whatever it wants to do with the 200,000 BTC it controls. In other words, they could sell them and return the proceeds to creditors or return the BTC to its creditors, pro rata. If the Court succeeded in selling the 200,000 coins, it would brutalize BTC's price. Why is this not a real possibility? I'm not trolling for cheap coins, (I'm already all in at a average cost of approx. $495! Plus, I can't control the Court's decision!) I'm just very curious about pressing BTC matters that could impact us all.
You seriously think the bankruptcy court is going to dump 200,000 coins on the open market to achieve a best sale price? Perhaps you should apply for a job at the CFTC. And what makes you so sure they won't? Look, as far as the Japanese are concerned, they might just look at Bitcoin like any other asset, they ask 'what do I do with this', then the reply goes 'sell it' then they said "ok do it for me" and some person in charge just make sure he gets to convert those 'assets' to fiat and his job is done, maybe with "ok i'll take those bitcoins for a 100 yen" John.... |
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Jr65 (OP)
Newbie
Offline
Activity: 28
Merit: 0
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April 21, 2014, 04:12:01 PM |
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No, they will dump it privately and by the time we hear about it, it will be way too late.
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johnny211
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April 21, 2014, 10:39:45 PM |
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1) "Insolvency is the inability of a debtor to pay their debt."
2) "The state of having liabilities that are greater than assets"
It is obvious that 1 applies.
Since Gox is shut down and doesn't have a real office what assets or income do they have? A few servers, corporate car, printer, desk stapler? (most of these cost money to run)
How can you say they are still solvent?
I'm simply saying that if you exclude BTC debt and treat the BTC held by Gox as assets, you're looking at 137M USD of assets (BTC + fiat at bank accounts) and 63M USD of liabilities (gox user, fiat balances). Gox is only insolvent if BTC debt is included, so why is the liqudator involved if the debt isn't? |
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