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Author Topic: Mystery miner at it again?  (Read 6066 times)
MoonShadow
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April 15, 2011, 11:38:13 PM
 #21

I can't imagine what kind of damage a botnet can do

It seems likely that most botnet machines would be lower-powered, without capable GPU.  So, you'd need a really, really big CPU mining botnet basically...



But what if the botnet intrustion code was smart enough to search for a suitable GPU (it would not care about mining efficiency so it would go for both ATI and AMD)!! Smiley Imagine the hashing power such a botnet could achieve. Imagine all those poor games who are left scratching their head wondering why their system lags and why temps spike "myseriously"...Tongue


If it's that smart, then why would it even be noticed by the user?  It should be able to throttle the GPU so that it's running just below full fan heat and stop whenever the screensaver dies.

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marcus_of_augustus
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April 15, 2011, 11:57:56 PM
 #22

I can't imagine what kind of damage a botnet can do

It seems likely that most botnet machines would be lower-powered, without capable GPU.  So, you'd need a really, really big CPU mining botnet basically...



But what if the botnet intrustion code was smart enough to search for a suitable GPU (it would not care about mining efficiency so it would go for both ATI and AMD)!! Smiley Imagine the hashing power such a botnet could achieve. Imagine all those poor games who are left scratching their head wondering why their system lags and why temps spike "myseriously"...Tongue


If it's that smart, then why would it even be noticed by the user?  It should be able to throttle the GPU so that it's running just below full fan heat and stop whenever the screensaver dies.

Yet another reason to go to Linux ... botnets could get a lot more virulent if there is palpable money (bitcoin) at the end of the computational theft rainbow.

allinvain
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April 16, 2011, 03:36:48 AM
 #23

I can't imagine what kind of damage a botnet can do

It seems likely that most botnet machines would be lower-powered, without capable GPU.  So, you'd need a really, really big CPU mining botnet basically...



But what if the botnet intrustion code was smart enough to search for a suitable GPU (it would not care about mining efficiency so it would go for both ATI and AMD)!! Smiley Imagine the hashing power such a botnet could achieve. Imagine all those poor games who are left scratching their head wondering why their system lags and why temps spike "myseriously"...Tongue


If it's that smart, then why would it even be noticed by the user?  It should be able to throttle the GPU so that it's running just below full fan heat and stop whenever the screensaver dies.

Well it's not that easy. People have different configurations with different cooling solutions. What I'm saying is that in order for the botnet code to be that smart it would have to be very complex and have a lot of built in knowledge of different card configurations, etc. It is by far simpler for the code to check "hey is there an OpenCL or CUDA capable card in the system? yes - let it rip! no - use the CPU"

Moa has a point. You are less likely to get infected with these on linux. I'm thinking of building a dedicated linux box just to store my bitcoins for that very reason - among many.


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April 16, 2011, 09:42:03 AM
 #24

I wonder if such an individual starts to pose a clear threat to the regular Bitcoin users, if there will be enough pissed hackers to mount an uber cyberstalking squad and track the down the real person behind the thing...

(I dont always get new reply notifications, pls send a pm when you think it has happened)

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April 16, 2011, 10:25:07 AM
 #25

First of all, hello everyone, long time stalker but first post here Smiley

This Mystery miner - would Compute4Cash be a candidate for this? They pay for "WorkUnits", and do not explain what they are used for, the calculations are done with GPU's and they even have a list of WUs/hour for various cards which greatly reminds me of the wiki list for Bitcoin...

A brilliant idea from the owner idd if it is; pay people a fraction of what they could be earning with the actual pooled mining and rake in loads of profit for yourself ;p

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April 16, 2011, 10:32:22 AM
 #26

I can't imagine what kind of damage a botnet can do

It seems likely that most botnet machines would be lower-powered, without capable GPU.  So, you'd need a really, really big CPU mining botnet basically...



But what if the botnet intrustion code was smart enough to search for a suitable GPU (it would not care about mining efficiency so it would go for both ATI and AMD)!! Smiley Imagine the hashing power such a botnet could achieve. Imagine all those poor games who are left scratching their head wondering why their system lags and why temps spike "myseriously"...Tongue


Gamers don't usually install SDKs

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April 16, 2011, 10:51:35 AM
 #27

First of all, hello everyone, long time stalker but first post here Smiley

This Mystery miner - would Compute4Cash be a candidate for this? They pay for "WorkUnits", and do not explain what they are used for, the calculations are done with GPU's and they even have a list of WUs/hour for various cards which greatly reminds me of the wiki list for Bitcoin...

A brilliant idea from the owner idd if it is; pay people a fraction of what they could be earning with the actual pooled mining and rake in loads of profit for yourself ;p
Compute4Cash is mining bitcoins: the site owner eventually came clean here on this forum when exposed.

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allinvain
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April 16, 2011, 02:00:43 PM
 #28

I can't imagine what kind of damage a botnet can do

It seems likely that most botnet machines would be lower-powered, without capable GPU.  So, you'd need a really, really big CPU mining botnet basically...



But what if the botnet intrustion code was smart enough to search for a suitable GPU (it would not care about mining efficiency so it would go for both ATI and AMD)!! Smiley Imagine the hashing power such a botnet could achieve. Imagine all those poor games who are left scratching their head wondering why their system lags and why temps spike "myseriously"...Tongue


Gamers don't usually install SDKs

True! Very good point. I don't think it would be very practical for a botnet/trojan to install an SDK without the user's knowledge, but it still is theoretically possible. Could the SDK not be "trimmed down" somehow?

However, if the incentive is great enough I think someone out there will at least seriously attempt to do this. The same people  - or type of people - that are responsible for the spam sending trojans/botnets who make millions off of viagra and all kind of shit they spam people with are going to see this as yet another cash cow. As long as it is fairly easy for them to liquidate BTC into whatever national currency they prefer it will be a breeze for them to make money. The thing is this does not really harm bitcoin as a whole, but it does take away in a sense bitcoins from miners that otherwise would've mined them in a more traditional and dare I say "honest" fashion of investing in their own hardware and using their own electricity instead of STEALING it or hijacking it from someone else.



Raulo
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April 16, 2011, 02:18:53 PM
 #29

You don't need SDK to mine if you use CAL instead of OpenCL. Catalyst drivers suffice. And even with OpenCL, I believe you only need dynamic libraries not the full SDK suite.

However, you underestimate the number of CPU zombies you can cheaply "rent":
http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4783.msg70515#msg70515

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allinvain
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April 16, 2011, 03:30:29 PM
 #30

You don't need SDK to mine if you use CAL instead of OpenCL. Catalyst drivers suffice. And even with OpenCL, I believe you only need dynamic libraries not the full SDK suite.

However, you underestimate the number of CPU zombies you can cheaply "rent":
http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4783.msg70515#msg70515

Jesus...30 mil botnet you can rent! Wow. Ok, now excuse me while I cash out some of my bitcoins, pay that monthly rent and go make back some bitcoins. Lather, rinse, and repeat Tongue

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April 16, 2011, 03:34:56 PM
 #31

Looking at bitcoin.sipa.be, I'm not seeing anything unusual. I can see MM off to the left, but the current part of the graph just looks to me like the usual ups and downs of network growth. Is there something else that makes us think Mystery Miner has returned?


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Cryptoman
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April 16, 2011, 04:01:15 PM
 #32

Looking at bitcoin.sipa.be, I'm not seeing anything unusual. I can see MM off to the left, but the current part of the graph just looks to me like the usual ups and downs of network growth. Is there something else that makes us think Mystery Miner has returned?

I noticed a brief surge to over 1 Terahash/s on bitcoinwatch.com the day I started this thread.  It was probably just a string of good luck and got averaged out on the sipa charts.

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April 16, 2011, 04:40:19 PM
 #33

I noticed a brief surge to over 1 Terahash/s on bitcoinwatch.com the day I started this thread.  It was probably just a string of good luck and got averaged out on the sipa charts.
Cool, thanks. There is a spike on sipa, but it's followed by an equivalent fall. If I'd seen the spike as it was happening I'd have been concerned too!

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Cryptoman
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April 16, 2011, 04:59:11 PM
 #34

It's Google doing trial runs of Bitcoin mining. They do it for a while and then shut it down, refine their setup and start it back up again.

Are you serious?

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April 16, 2011, 05:26:06 PM
 #35

It's Google doing trial runs of Bitcoin mining. They do it for a while and then shut it down, refine their setup and start it back up again.

Are you serious?

lol who knows, but don't forget they DID write a java based bitcoin client..well someone from their organization, so I'm not sure if there is a formal "plan" to make bitcoin their next thing. However, let's put it this way, if Google adopts bitcoin in some major way then it's mainstream all the way baby! And rather quickly too!

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April 16, 2011, 05:36:34 PM
 #36

It's Google doing trial runs of Bitcoin mining. They do it for a while and then shut it down, refine their setup and start it back up again.

Are you serious?

lol who knows, but don't forget they DID write a java based bitcoin client..well someone from their organization, so I'm not sure if there is a formal "plan" to make bitcoin their next thing. However, let's put it this way, if Google adopts bitcoin in some major way then it's mainstream all the way baby! And rather quickly too!

I'm fairly certain that Google the entity has done nothing and probably not even much noticed bitcoins, but one particular employee used his 20% project time to make a bitcoin client. It seems there is widespread belief that Google the corporation cares about bitcoins  - all signs point to them not even really knowing about it, or at least not planning on doing anything with it so far.
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April 16, 2011, 05:56:25 PM
 #37

I'm fairly certain that Google the entity has done nothing and probably not even much noticed bitcoins, but one particular employee used his 20% project time to make a bitcoin client. It seems there is widespread belief that Google the corporation cares about bitcoins  - all signs point to them not even really knowing about it, or at least not planning on doing anything with it so far.

+1 agreed

Thank you for re-injecting some realism.

Raoul Duke
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April 18, 2011, 10:42:34 AM
 #38

It's Google doing trial runs of Bitcoin mining. They do it for a while and then shut it down, refine their setup and start it back up again.

Are you serious?

Think about it. Google is the biggest company that backs free, open software and culture. Google also happens to more servers than Intel, Rackspace, Microsoft and Amazon combined.

If Google wants to use Bitcoin for adsense or whatever they'd need a large supply to fund it. Buying Bitcoin in the mass quantities that Google would need is currently impossible, but since they have many servers to work with it's easier for them to mine it themselves.

Once they have their supply, they'll announce their involvement. They can't announce it early because the news that Google is working with Bitcoin would cause the the value of Bitcoin to rise dramatically. If they play their cards rights, they can mine whatever amount they need and when they announce it that amount will be worth 1, 5, 10, 100 or whatever times as much.

But mostly I'm just rumour mongering  Cheesy

Although who else would have the resources to drop that much power into the network at random?

Would they be using THIS server architecture to mine? Cause that's all they have in their container DC's...

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April 18, 2011, 10:53:12 AM
 #39

What that box got? A dual cpu (amd opteron perhaps) with boatload of RAM? I don't think a group of those servers can compare to the power of even a humble 5770.


Raoul Duke
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April 18, 2011, 10:57:18 AM
 #40

What that box got? A dual cpu (amd opteron perhaps) with boatload of RAM? I don't think a group of those servers can compare to the power of even a humble 5770.

Well, read the full article, http://news.cnet.com/8301-1001_3-10209580-92.html

They really have a LOT of them...

But that being said, you all must know, and Google themselves admited it, their service was made to work on cheap hardware, that's right CHEAP hardware... and that's what they have.
Cheap hardware, but lots and lots of it...  Grin

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