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Author Topic: [ANN][KARM] Karma / ₭ / X11  (Read 562964 times)
Alphi
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September 20, 2014, 03:05:13 AM
 #6501

For example there has been less then 20 people who have voted between DVD and ROY to take over. I repeat. Important services of Karma have been voted by less then 20 people. I had to personally ask Komost to give us more time as i didnt think enough people have spoken. Say what you want , but technically these 20 are calling the shot on your beloved Karma right now. Eventually it will be those kind of active people who will become the new "karma team"  .... its inevitable.

I agree but the decision to hold voting on the karmashares forums is also the reason why you are getting such a small amount of votes... if people weren't a part of Karmashares before it collapsed they are hardly likely to join the site now.

I am working on an block-chain based technology to further democratize crypto coins that does not involve signing up to yet another website.. but too early yet to give any details.
I agree the way things are done now is not adequate nor representative of the entire community's wishes.

We have seen it play out before. We needed Karma decision to be made and every time we brought them up here no one cared. Only some active 20 or so karmanians.  Eventually they were the only ones replying and voting but most importantly tried to help by doing tasks that needed to be done.

its not that nobody cared it is because there is information scattered across so many different places that it is hard for people (who often hold more than 5 different coins) to check up on every thread at every website. Further scattering information by getting people to sign up to even more websites is not going to help solve this problem.

Here is an other example : Our main explorer went offline for days now. The ones we spend days asking services like Mintpal to use. I only saw a certain few people trying to find solutions to this. this is the kind of response the general community gives us.

we have two block explorers.. this is the first I've heard of it. I don't sit on the thread 24 hours a day but at least the important announcements should be made here or in one central location.

here is an example that got a lot more people involved : The motion to remove POC. Not trying to open this can of warms but it was amazing how many prideful karmanians became active to this request.  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes

yep when people care enough.. even if they have to go out of their way.. they will make the effort lol

Also it is difficult to keep a focused discussions here due to so many people going off topic or trolling. Slowly sites like Trello and telegram and hopefully karma forums will be the main places important question will be asked. And most likely those active group of people will be the only ones sharing their insight and votes. So again it will be inevitable that these certain group will be the one answering and pretty much voting on any decision making solutions.

yes it is difficult but it is where most of the people go for their information.
this is also why we should probably hold off making any big decisions until we have a proper inclusive decision making process in place.

by big decision I mean, who controls the trademarks and major structural changes to the network like algo changes or change in coin supply etc. everything else, i.e. who controls which websites is really not that big of a deal and can be negotiated directly with Kosmost and other people who control those sites.

I think some people will be angry of Kosmost tries to sell Lil.com and pocket the money for himself but since I was not involved in that project it really is none of my business.. Ultimately the people who should decide the fate of LIL are the people who were directly involved in creating it i.e. Kosmost and whoever helped him to design and code the site.

to be honest with you.. I think what is really going on here is that some entities really want to control the Trademarks, the source code, and LIL.com. If all 3 get given to the same person with complete control and they mess it up then this community will cease to exist.. end of story.. no more rising from the ashes, no more rebuild..

people are only still here because they believed that Karmashares was a community project and community owned. if Karmashares was completely self interested and privately owned then I can guarantee you that most of the community members would have left a long time ago and the only person talking in this forum would be Kosmost and a few trolls... yes I know it looks like that now but a lot of the old guard are still here... and we ARE working on karma related projects.

I have been buying up lots of coins lately and working on my own projects and quite frankly if someone comes along and decides to exclude me from the network either by determining where I can use my coins or telling me that I can no longer use the logos which I helped to create then that will be enough to force me leave the community and not look back.

to be honest all this power struggle and control issues BS is what got us into this mess in the first place.. we should all be able to work together to make Karma a better economy for all of us.. not trying to carve up our own little kingdoms from the remnants of a once great crypto coin.

lets not forget that Karma was once one of the highest volume traded coins on mintpal one of the most successful crypto exchanges... our strength came from our sense of loyalty to the community and not from karmashares (which we all thought was community owned anyways) lets not sell ourselves short and throw the baby out with the bath water.

so to sum up.. generally I do agree with your sentiments and thinking.. I just haven't given up on the community spirit yet..  Wink


KARMA: KSc9oGgGga1TS4PqZNFxNS9LSDjdSgpC1B      VERT: VgKaooA5ZuLLUXTUANJigH9wCPuzBUBv9H
DOGE:   DRN7pXid34o6wQgUuK8BoSjWJ5g8jiEs4e
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TheLittleDuke
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September 20, 2014, 03:06:56 AM
 #6502

For example there has been less then 20 people who have voted between DVD and ROY to take over. I repeat. Important services of Karma have been voted by less then 20 people. I had to personally ask Komost to give us more time as i didnt think enough people have spoken. Say what you want , but technically these 20 are calling the shot on your beloved Karma right now. Eventually it will be those kind of active people who will become the new "karma team"  .... its inevitable.

I must openly agree with you because it it just and right -- we cannot let a tyranny of the minority choose for the silent majority.  A sample size of 20 is small even for a "small sample size" -- I would not feel right directing development with so few members weighing in!

Again there is an old solution when you're stuck with two kind of groups. That solution is : one party brings in the options and the other chooses the solution. This helps keeping balance between them. If party one creates on option to benefit them then the second party will not choose it. Also the first party will try to create options that the second party will not be able to profit anymore then everyone else.

It does not have to come down to an "either-or" -- I'm not suggesting that it does!  Life is not so simple?

One of my favorite quotes comes from the Canadian rock band "Rush" where in the song "Free Will" singer Geddy Lee sings:

"You can choose a ready guide in some celestial voice
If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice!"

That means "silence is compliance" - it also means that every decision has three possible outcomes.  Think about it...

I would tentatively propose that the the Swiss firm handle the "for profit" side of Karma while the USA based non-profit focus on the community and development of the blockchain for a purpose viz the "Internet Reputation"

Clearly the Swiss firm has an investment in the coinbase that I'm certain that they would like to monetize -- hopefully not at your expense!

Whereas the the USA non-profit has no financial stake in the coinbase and is thus more pure of motive.

It's a "YES IF" pattern solution!

Would you agree?

-dvd


It's Better 2GIVE
https://2Give.Info
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September 20, 2014, 03:20:14 AM
 #6503

to be honest with you.. I think what is really going on here is that some entities really want to control the Trademarks, the source code, and LIL.com. If all 3 get given to the same person with complete control and they mess it up then this community will cease to exist.. end of story.. no more rising from the ashes, no more rebuild..

My dear friend Alphi, while you and I do not frequently understand one another or agree on all points, you must know that I respect your opinion.

I have no interest in "controlling" the source code -- I do not pretend for a second that I am the "smartest guy in the room" (a reference to the Enron scandal and movie made about it)

I merely want to establish the Trademark rights within the USA for Karma as a crypto currency within the authority of "Strength in Numbers Foundation" such that we may collectively utilize it free and clear for purposes of Internet Reputation. 

If you have not spent anytime looking at the patents or trademarks filed by the likes of Yahoo! then I would encourage you to do so.  If you think I'm a threat to Karma, you have NO IDEA what deep pockets lay waiting to pounce to subvert it for their greedy profits.

We need to find a purpose for this coinbase.  And here is a very unpopular position that I am certain will draw all the early pre and early mine investors out of the woodwork:

We need to do a "reverse-split" of the total shares and crush the potential 92B tokens down to a number that is more sensicial.  For example most studies suggest that there will be 12B people on the planet by 2100.  That is a rational number.

-dvd

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September 20, 2014, 03:26:42 AM
 #6504

alphi.

you are correct that we are scattered. Believe me man. As i been fighting to keep karma going. This thread here is poisonous. This is the main source of traders. they come here for that sweet or bitter news to trade off. tthe moment we got the new help offer price jumped 10 litoshi and all the sell walls went down. look at 39 litoshi and up...  I saw the mintpal tab blink. i check it and saw the spike. was wondering that the deal was. then i came and read the post of second offer. Everything that is said here is used to trade for profit. So of course there will be tons of angry investors coming here playing the blaming game. they will never let us have healthy convos.

We knew we had to move out of here. The final place was suppose to be Karma forum but i dont know what its fate will be now. That is why Trello was chosen. Unfortunately , we need a place to be more organized.

as for karma share. It takes two minutes to sign up for it and a day or two to get used to it. Just like you are used to come here to check on altcoin so will you get used to go there. We need to have it . We can not depend on this thread to be used as go to for question. things get buried fast. For example the block explore that you mention. there has been many post in here about it. but it has been buried. Everything get buried here fast.  Thats why we need forums because it has categories and not every topic in on one thread. it helps thinning out the categories. also topic are harder to get buried giving people more time to see them.

Edit: I was very excited when Jason lunched karmawire.net be cause it was suppose to be focused on karma events and would be an easy source to keep track of.  too bad he could work on it anymore. it was the perfect solution. it would have taken anyone 5 minutes to up to date with karma
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September 20, 2014, 03:43:17 AM
 #6505

alphi.

you are correct that we are scattered. Believe me man. As i been fighting to keep karma going. This thread here is poisonous. This is the main source of traders. they come here for that sweet or bitter news to trade off. tthe moment we got the new help offer price jumped 10 litoshi and all the sell walls went down. look at 39 litoshi and up...  I saw the mintpal tab blink. i check it and saw the spike. was wondering that the deal was. then i came and read the post of second offer. Everything that is said here is used to trade for profit. So of course there will be tons of angry investors coming here playing the blaming game. they will never let us have healthy convos.

We knew we had to move out of here. The final place was suppose to be Karma forum but i dont know what its fate will be now. That is why Trello was chosen. Unfortunately , we need a place to be more organized.

as for karma share. It takes two minutes to sign up for it and a day or two to get used to it. Just like you are used to come here to check on altcoin so will you get used to go there. We need to have it . We can not depend on this thread to be used as go to for question. things get buried fast. For example the block explore that you mention. there has been many post in here about it. but it has been buried. Everything get buried here fast.  Thats why we need forums because it has categories and not every topic in on one thread. it helps thinning out the categories. also topic are harder to get buried giving people more time to see them.

Edit: I was very excited when Jason lunched karmawire.net be cause it was suppose to be focused on karma events and would be an easy source to keep track of.  too bad he could work on it anymore. it was the perfect solution. it would have taken anyone 5 minutes to up to date with karma

yeah with any new website you will always have to find people willing to pay for it and keep it running.. thats why I am more interested in blockchain based solutions. we cant really ditch bitcointalk completely simply because it is the port of call for all new community members. trello is ok for organizing work groups but I think announcements should still be made here..

I think you missed my point about not wanting to be associated with Karmashares.. I wont join a website that has Karmashares in its name and I wouldn't expect anyone else to either. Unfortunately when Kosmost took Karmashares and gave himself complete and absolute control over it,  that is when I completely lost interest in that project.

KARMA: KSc9oGgGga1TS4PqZNFxNS9LSDjdSgpC1B      VERT: VgKaooA5ZuLLUXTUANJigH9wCPuzBUBv9H
DOGE:   DRN7pXid34o6wQgUuK8BoSjWJ5g8jiEs4e
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September 20, 2014, 08:11:57 AM
 #6506

I went throught all you replies and first of all I want to make sure to avoid any misunderstandings: We do not want to own Karma or any parts of. We just consider it to be a bad idea to split it into small pieces and give it to some anonymous voluntary individuals so that important stuff can be shot down because somebody couldn't afford to pay a 5$ bill. That's why we understand us as the "godfathers" of Karma and we don't want to create any products / services for Karma and invest money and risk our reputation towards existing and potential partners as long as Karma itself can dissapear at any time just because a "kid" lost interest in Karma and decides to shoot something down.

So let's be clear: People need security, reliability and stability. We would legally oblige ourselves to keep everything existing running and online at our costs and should any of the products made availabe to us generate a profit, it would be used only to cover the costs and constitute reserves. Should we not keep our promises: anyone could sue our company, the competent court would be District Court Hochdorf

http://www.gerichte.lu.ch/index/organisation/o_bezirksgerichte/o_bz_ho_bezirksrichter.htm

We were with Karma since the very beginning and we kept running at least 200 mHash of our asics during the Scrypt phase, in between we were almost the only miner. We wouldn't propose such an aproach if we wouldn't consider that the taken course could probably mean the kiss of death for Karma.

I understand the concerns but to be honest, Karma's now worth almost nothing and so are the related products and websites and from my viewpoint, the latest dumps must have been executed by the inner circle. Others did sell; we did not even a single Karma and we can prove it.

We will contact Kosmost to hear his standpoint on that.

Btw: feel free to drop us a message here or in skype (pekomajstor) or have a talk. We're ready to answer any questions. André is online with "scryptminerch".
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September 20, 2014, 08:40:37 AM
 #6507

We do not want to own Karma or any parts of. We just consider it to be a bad idea to split it into small pieces and give it to some anonymous voluntary individuals so that important stuff can be shot down because somebody couldn't afford to pay a 5$ bill. That's why we understand us as the "godfathers" of Karma and we don't want to create any products / services for Karma and invest money and risk our reputation towards existing and potential partners as long as Karma itself can dissapear at any time just because a "kid" lost interest in Karma and decides to shoot something down.

I agree with you there. Pretty much everything Karma has could be run from one server (except maybe lil)

if you are willing to provide an open letter to the community and give a commitment that you will not sue anyone who uses the Karma trademarks without license then at least that issue of control can be put to rest.
Just like you, I don't want to be building products and services and then have someone try to sue me because I used a trademark (or logo) that was created by the community and for the community.

You have put your money where your mouth is and invested in the coin already... this will go a long way towards gaining community confidence in your proposal.

I can only speak for myself.. but I like to make a lot of noise to protect those people who may not have voice lol.

I am more than happy to work with anyone who wants to further the growth of this community.

KARMA: KSc9oGgGga1TS4PqZNFxNS9LSDjdSgpC1B      VERT: VgKaooA5ZuLLUXTUANJigH9wCPuzBUBv9H
DOGE:   DRN7pXid34o6wQgUuK8BoSjWJ5g8jiEs4e
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September 20, 2014, 09:20:55 AM
 #6508

We do not want to own Karma or any parts of. We just consider it to be a bad idea to split it into small pieces and give it to some anonymous voluntary individuals so that important stuff can be shot down because somebody couldn't afford to pay a 5$ bill. That's why we understand us as the "godfathers" of Karma and we don't want to create any products / services for Karma and invest money and risk our reputation towards existing and potential partners as long as Karma itself can dissapear at any time just because a "kid" lost interest in Karma and decides to shoot something down.

I agree with you there. Pretty much everything Karma has could be run from one server (except maybe lil)

if you are willing to provide an open letter to the community and give a commitment that you will not sue anyone who uses the Karma trademarks without license then at least that issue of control can be put to rest.
Just like you, I don't want to be building products and services and then have someone try to sue me because I used a trademark (or logo) that was created by the community and for the community.

You have put your money where your mouth is and invested in the coin already... this will go a long way towards gaining community confidence in your proposal.

I can only speak for myself.. but I like to make a lot of noise to protect those people who may not have voice lol.

I am more than happy to work with anyone who wants to further the growth of this community.


Alphi, it's in our interest to make it as easy and secure as possible for everyone in the world to use Karma and create products and services for and/or with Karma without being forced to pay any royalities to an "owner" company / organisation. This is the only way to be interesting for a potential investor. We will set up such a letter and publish it on our homepage. It's easy to find out that - in addition to our own local company - I'm working for a NYSE listed wordwide billion dollar software company as a Legal Counsel and I cannot afford to speard lies or bullshit around the internet. But what I can do is present good ideas to the senior management should we manage to make the turnaround here.
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September 20, 2014, 09:21:44 AM
 #6509

mined good chunk of karma and holding, it actually brings good luck kidding you not

new upcoming awesome coin

the Gulden Coin: GKWHEPx3rQyPnbgQUSHu8gtgoRCgpqed1j
Alphi
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September 20, 2014, 09:34:14 AM
 #6510

Alphi, it's in our interest to make it as easy and secure as possible for everyone in the world to use Karma and create products and services for and/or with Karma without being forced to pay any royalities to an "owner" company / organisation. This is the only way to be interesting for a potential investor. We will set up such a letter and publish it on our homepage. It's easy to find out that - in addition to our own local company - I'm working for a NYSE listed wordwide billion dollar software company as a Legal Counsel and I cannot afford to speard lies or bullshit around the internet. But what I can do is present good ideas to the senior management should we manage to make the turnaround here.

I couldn't agree more. lets be as open as we can.


KARMA: KSc9oGgGga1TS4PqZNFxNS9LSDjdSgpC1B      VERT: VgKaooA5ZuLLUXTUANJigH9wCPuzBUBv9H
DOGE:   DRN7pXid34o6wQgUuK8BoSjWJ5g8jiEs4e
Alphi
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September 20, 2014, 09:36:02 AM
 #6511

mined good chunk of karma and holding, it actually brings good luck kidding you not

if you get in at the bottom you are bound to have more good luck  Wink

KARMA: KSc9oGgGga1TS4PqZNFxNS9LSDjdSgpC1B      VERT: VgKaooA5ZuLLUXTUANJigH9wCPuzBUBv9H
DOGE:   DRN7pXid34o6wQgUuK8BoSjWJ5g8jiEs4e
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September 20, 2014, 09:57:46 AM
 #6512

mined good chunk of karma and holding, it actually brings good luck kidding you not

if you get in at the bottom you are bound to have more good luck  Wink

now that is funny  Cool  yeah 0 problems, nice design stable blockchain working pools

my dilemma you see is that I have one set of hardware and so many coins (I am speaking here for thousands like me for sure), so I scan for coins that can increase in value over time believe you can

new upcoming awesome coin

the Gulden Coin: GKWHEPx3rQyPnbgQUSHu8gtgoRCgpqed1j
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September 20, 2014, 10:40:16 AM
 #6513

I can point explorer.karmacoin.me to the alternate block explorer. No one has asked since the main one has been down, but it can be done. I just need the address and a yes/no from the current team.

Goodomy ["GOOD"] token here ∞ Rewards for customers of 700,000 retail stores in the US and millions more around the world
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September 20, 2014, 11:25:20 AM
 #6514

I can point explorer.karmacoin.me to the alternate block explorer. No one has asked since the main one has been down, but it can be done. I just need the address and a yes/no from the current team.

Can you put it back up?

Vote to get Karma listed on this exchange: https://hitbtc.com/vote (sign up to get a vote for 10 points, vote once every 24 hrs)
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/ BULL bit / token


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September 20, 2014, 12:30:57 PM
 #6515


How to exchange old KARM for new KARM X11 ?

CAPCHECK.work
{
Create and Control your Crypto Portfolio

# SUPER BOUNTY! # Сrowdfunding-Partnership
}
--  -
--  -
--  -
--  -
--  -
--  -
--  -
--  -
--  -
--  -
--  -
--  -

#  ANN en
#  ANN ru
#  Contact

  
#  TWITTER
#  FACEBOOK
#  VK
 
--
--
--
-- 
-- 
-- 
-- 
-- 
-- 
-- 
-- 
--
 
Alphi
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September 20, 2014, 12:33:42 PM
 #6516


How to exchange old KARM for new KARM X11 ?

you don't have to exchange them they are the same coins. only the proof of work algorithm changed.

KARMA: KSc9oGgGga1TS4PqZNFxNS9LSDjdSgpC1B      VERT: VgKaooA5ZuLLUXTUANJigH9wCPuzBUBv9H
DOGE:   DRN7pXid34o6wQgUuK8BoSjWJ5g8jiEs4e
finist4x
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September 20, 2014, 12:37:13 PM
 #6517


but my KARMcoins in the old wallet.dat


CAPCHECK.work
{
Create and Control your Crypto Portfolio

# SUPER BOUNTY! # Сrowdfunding-Partnership
}
--  -
--  -
--  -
--  -
--  -
--  -
--  -
--  -
--  -
--  -
--  -
--  -

#  ANN en
#  ANN ru
#  Contact

  
#  TWITTER
#  FACEBOOK
#  VK
 
--
--
--
-- 
-- 
-- 
-- 
-- 
-- 
-- 
-- 
--
 
Alphi
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September 20, 2014, 12:39:00 PM
 #6518


but my KARMcoins in the old wallet.dat



just update your Karma client software and keep your wallet.dat

KARMA: KSc9oGgGga1TS4PqZNFxNS9LSDjdSgpC1B      VERT: VgKaooA5ZuLLUXTUANJigH9wCPuzBUBv9H
DOGE:   DRN7pXid34o6wQgUuK8BoSjWJ5g8jiEs4e
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September 20, 2014, 02:41:42 PM
 #6519

I can point explorer.karmacoin.me to the alternate block explorer. No one has asked since the main one has been down, but it can be done. I just need the address and a yes/no from the current team.

Can you put it back up?

The person that was helping to maintain it is no longer maintaining it, and it needs some fixes.

I can, however, point it to the alternative explorer until it is fixed.

Goodomy ["GOOD"] token here ∞ Rewards for customers of 700,000 retail stores in the US and millions more around the world
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September 20, 2014, 04:44:52 PM
 #6520

I can point explorer.karmacoin.me to the alternate block explorer. No one has asked since the main one has been down, but it can be done. I just need the address and a yes/no from the current team.

Can you put it back up?

The person that was helping to maintain it is no longer maintaining it, and it needs some fixes.

I can, however, point it to the alternative explorer until it is fixed.

If its based on ABE I can spin one up instantly and host it?  If you make me a tar.gz  I can load it up later today.

No charge.

-dvd

It's Better 2GIVE
https://2Give.Info
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