[ANN][KARM] Karma / ₭ / X11

[dips55tree]

You think this makes it better? Common... Kosmost put so much time in Karma, if you dont trust it anymore just sell it. I think, that Kosmost is working on new stuff right now (he would have to acknowledge that i dont know). So if you think this is the top, dump your coins.
Im going to hold on a little longer because i might miss the train leaving when new projects come up.

Cheers kosmost

Thanks for your support

Here! Here!

Kos, please don't even respond to those who are ill.  It will only create more venom in them.  

Let's refocus the team right now!!!!  

Look forward to what's coming up next!

[Bierworst]

Please please! If you support Karma let us hear from you!
Im not a dev im not a team member, im just someone from the community but please bring out the positive vibes about karma!!! Do you like kosmost? Or the team? Or karma itself? Shout it out!!! 

[pdogg147]

Even if I could, it would not make sense to do that


why wouldnt it? if there was a legit offer  and made public then rejected things would be in a much better place of good karma and value

I heard Carl Sagan once speak of a strange universe where no one was ever satisfied. No matter what they asked for and received, they always thought of something else to ask for.

Good thing we don't live in such a world

I'm almost beginning to feel as though I should not have spent thousands of my own money pursuing it (in travel and other related expenses). But, alas, it is my nature to be of service.

However, I do have my limits.

Accusations and other misplaced conjectures are beyond annoying, as are whigning and complaining about a free ride that never showed up.

A few weeks ago I asked people who were complaining about Karmashares if they'd like to put their name down as the responsible person then they can do it how they want.

Of course, no one responded that they could or wanted to.

Sometimes you just have to say "STFU" and move on. Other times, you crack open a beer and watch the kids fight with themselves.

Kosmost, crack open that beer, sit down, think about what you could do best with any projects laying on the shelve, buy yourself some nice dinner and work them out wiith the teaam and the community whenever everyone is ready.

This must be frustrating for you, but people seem to forget that if you would be gone for half a year we would be in trouble, even if the rest of the team is working hard. Lill will be sold eventually, but that sell must not include the sell of you too, you are wished to be here.

Addition: we need you

Man... I will gladly pay Kosmot a nice dinner + drinks anytime if I ever have the opportunity to do so.
Only the guys that have been doing some work (even small stuff...) for karma/karmashares can truly appreciate the effort Kosmost has been putting on the project.

I second and third that.

I guess I fourth that then!  Thanks Kosmost for taking the time out of YOUR life and money from YOUR pocket to pursue this deal.  People wanted the quick earnings and many would likely never be seen again nor offer to help Karma in any way.  The exception here is Socoban, who actually has provided a service to Karma by developing the block explorer.  Also, many people do not realize what the impact to Karma would be by taking you away for 6 months.  That is valuable time for the advancement of Karma not to mention you being an indentured servant and your brilliance and vision going to someone else.  I would have liked to have made some BTC short term on the sale, but Karma is here for the long-term and hopefully you will be too.  Please ignore the criticisms.  You made the best decision for Karma.  Some of the team have spoken already, but I am sure I can speak for all of us in saying we are behind you 100%.

[Erik Goff]

i guess the coin is still worth just as much as it was yesterday. i wish i had money to buy more at this price. remember the jump over 140?  that was before the lill deal announcement

[ptman]

Now I expect the coin to be dumped hard down to 10 litoshi, because so many people are pissed they could not get quick profits doing nothing  

[p4r4m0un7]

KARMA WAS AND IS NOTHING WITHOUT KOSMOST AND THE TEAM. NOBODY WITH BRAIN BIGGER THAN WORM DOESN`T WANT KARMA WITHOUT KOSMOST EVEN FOR A DAY. FOR YEAR IS OUT OF A QUESTION. STOP WHINING, DUMP YOUR BAGS, GO SOMEWHERE ELSE AND CONTINUE TO FOLLOW OTHER MEANINGLESS COINS. NOBODY OWES YOU ANY KIND OF EXPLANATIONS OR TIME TO READ YOUR BUL$H17. GTFOOH. ABOUT NOW!

How do you like this?

[ShawnLeary]

Maybe we should focus on being a solid next gen crypto currency rather than trying to be a crowdsourcing incubator?

[p4r4m0un7]

Maybe we should focus on being a solid next gen crypto currency rather than trying to be a crowdsourcing incubator?

+1000

[Alphi]

WoW 20 percent down already come on guys buy up all that cheap coins

If there will be no better statement about the suspicions about that Insider trade,
this price now will be high. I see a downtrend and thats also bad for me old hodler

not really. there was an reasonable dumpings. they happened right after PND coin got dumped. We still have to figure out that the deal is. What if rumor has it that LTC market will be removed from mintpal based on moolah wanting to improve mintpal.

lill.com had not even started to implement karma coins. We have yet to see it potential of this service.

people so focused on the "$$" deal that lost track that this coin is more then lill.com

and please. stop saying inside trading. No one on the team knew what kosmost was up to. He made his statement of new news on this day days before. there could be just a freaking accident that this mysterious dumping fell on 24 hrs before

1) your point about other information such as Karm/LTC delisting is possible.. however Moolah recently released a list of all the coins they will support in V2 and Karma along with all the other LTC traded coins are on that list. this means that it would be very unlikely.

2) unfortunately kosmost will have to wear accusations of scam from people who have not been with Karma for along time because of the lack of proof RE the VC offer. this goes with the territory of unregulated crypto investing.

3) the dumping that occurred directly before the announcement and lack of dumping after the announcement suggests that someone knew ahead of time that the deal wouldn't work out. This does not mean that info leaked on the Karmashares LLC side. it takes 2 parties to negotiate.. who is to say that the VC themselves didn't dump their own Karma or tell a "friend" that owned a substantial amount of Karma. who is to say that the VC offer itself wasn't an elaborate hoax designed to pump and dump.. since we have no first hand information RE the offer itself. we cannot confirm whether it was legitimate or not. This is why the price didn't rise dramatically on the news of a buyout offer, because most people were waiting for confirmation of a deal.

So even if Kosmost acted entirely in good faith and did not leak any information, that does not mean that this whole lil.com offer thing was not a scam or a pump and dump. Those people who have been with Karma since the beginning know that Kosmost has a good track record helping to stabilise the price from 18 litoshi up to the several hundreds. We also know not to expect him to do everything for Karma while others do nothing.

at the moment I don't think there is enough information to point fingers and I don't think there ever will be, so lets all try not to get too overly emotional.

The best thing any Karma holders can do right now is to take a deep breath and reflect on how this affects you personally.

If you lost some money then you should look at your own investment decisions and your own greed and learn from the experience.
If you bought some cheap Karma on the dumps just think about what you can do with that karma and how you can use it to help others.

This coin has room for more than one leader, more than one company, more than one buyout deal and more than one whale.

[Evolvo]

I wouldn't worry too much about what these people are saying to Kosmost. Most of them are newcomers who, familiar with the altcoin world, want their quick return and then dump.  Those of us who have been around Karma since the beginning realize where Karma was and the tremendous work done by Kosmost and other team members to resuscitate it from the dead.  Some of us are disappointed because we thought the money from this sale could have funded future Karma infrastructure as well as financially reward some of us who have been around for a while.  

The reality, however, is that we still have excellent devs with an excellent vision and the current price is mostly irrelevant to the future of Karma.  I've long since realized that I wouldn't be able to get a quick profit off Karma but I could be part of something much bigger and powerful than another cloned altcoin.  

I wish I had more skill of value to offer to the community but I don't....I am thankful for all of those who are contributing.  This notion that there is any scamming going on is absurd and could have been done long ago in a much simpler way for much more profit.  The current price is irrelevant.  What we have is a valuable idea with many potentially valuable implementations.  

If you think this coin and development can be done differently or better then let's hear your ideas or let's see your implementations.  I realize that many of these people may have been burned in other scams and therefore are more edgy about it than they otherwise might be but it's frustrating to see these absurd accusations flying around directed at the person who has given the most of his time and money to make YOU money.  

We have to add value to the Karma network in order for the coin to gain in value.  This is what Kosmost has always been saying all along while working to build value.  Build value, make profit.  This is not a pump and dump.  The current price is irrelevant unless you intended on selling right now.  Build the future instead of whining about the present.  I, for one, will rack my brain to think of ways that I can help the network and contribute to building value.  

[bitwho]

WoW 20 percent down already come on guys buy up all that cheap coins

If there will be no better statement about the suspicions about that Insider trade,
this price now will be high. I see a downtrend and thats also bad for me old hodler

not really. there was an reasonable dumpings. they happened right after PND coin got dumped. We still have to figure out that the deal is. What if rumor has it that LTC market will be removed from mintpal based on moolah wanting to improve mintpal.

lill.com had not even started to implement karma coins. We have yet to see it potential of this service.

people so focused on the "$$" deal that lost track that this coin is more then lill.com

and please. stop saying inside trading. No one on the team knew what kosmost was up to. He made his statement of new news on this day days before. there could be just a freaking accident that this mysterious dumping fell on 24 hrs before

1) your point about other information such as Karm/LTC delisting is possible.. however Moolah recently released a list of all the coins they will support in V2 and Karma along with all the other LTC traded coins are on that list. this means that it would be very unlikely.

2) unfortunately kosmost will have to wear accusations of scam from people who have not been with Karma for along time because of the lack of proof RE the VC offer. this goes with the territory of unregulated crypto investing.

3) the dumping that occurred directly before the announcement and lack of dumping after the announcement suggests that someone knew ahead of time that the deal wouldn't work out. This does not mean that info leaked on the Karmashares LLC side. it takes 2 parties to negotiate.. who is to say that the VC themselves didn't dump their own Karma or tell a "friend" that owned a substantial amount of Karma. who is to say that the VC offer itself wasn't an elaborate hoax designed to pump and dump.. since we have no first hand information RE the offer itself. we cannot confirm whether it was legitimate or not. This is why the price didn't rise dramatically on the news of a buyout offer, because most people were waiting for confirmation of a deal.

So even if Kosmost acted entirely in good faith and did not leak any information, that does not mean that this whole lil.com offer thing was not a scam or a pump and dump. Those people who have been with Karma since the beginning know that Kosmost has a good track record helping to stabilise the price from 18 litoshi up to the several hundreds. We also know not to expect him to do everything for Karma while others do nothing.

at the moment I don't think there is enough information to point fingers and I don't think there ever will be, so lets all try not to get too overly emotional.

The best thing any Karma holders can do right now is to take a deep breath and reflect on how this affects you personally.

If you lost some money then you should look at your own investment decisions and your own greed and learn from the experience.
If you bought some cheap Karma on the dumps just think about what you can do with that karma and how you can use it to help others.

This coin has room for more than one leader, more than one company, more than one buyout deal and more than one whale.

1) the removal of ltc was something i said that would make more sense then thinking inside trading. Just want to point out again that selling all the way down to 14 litoshi is .. well madness. what trader would make such decisions. karma was stable enough before the lill.com deal to see that the 30 litchi sell level is huge losses. ignoring the ltc market removal , an hacked account makes more sense. again this sell is mysterious for sure. not denying it. being so close to to the news deal. but that huge amount makes it just...  so confusing. who would sell . why? at what gains. nothing else has changed, the team will keep pushing. whats the point selling that low. crypts still has some "okey" volume. ....

2) i dissagree! kosmost has shown nothing but positive action regarding karma involvments. he doesn't like to kiss and tell but he has put a lot of $$ into it. all the things that sprung since he and us took over is mostly picked up by him. He should be the last person to point at. again that huge dump is just so freakish that it happened. but i can't possible allow others to think its inside trading. its just bad trading to sell so many coins to a coin that was maintaining the same volume before the sell and during the ongoing sell... if inside trading they could have easily sell 100 mills between each day for the many weeks this "fake deal" went on.

3) again this can not be considered pump n dump because there had to be a pump... i am not on my main comp so i can not chaise data and charts but if i recall correctly there was like..3-4 btw volume at first announcement. then price stabilized to 1 satoshi fast. by the time the news of the second deal came out (which was more mpayout money) there was no buy orders. i remember people making post of the lack of the "hype" and buy volume. the market did not react at all.. im am sure the charts will show flat line of 1 satoshi level. This only leaves us back to this mysterious "dump" that just does make economical sense. even if some one pumped 3-4 btcs.. that still would make them to have 400 mills (if one person) max. all the sells were x5 more... i just can not begging to explain the dumping. the only thing i can see is how close to the PND dumps it was which they also experienced massive hundreds of ltc sells.

i can firmly discharge pump and dump as it has no real volume to back it up and i can vouch that inside trading between the team never happened. i had to F5 this page just like everyone else here

at the moment I don't think there is enough information to point fingers and I don't think there ever will be, so lets all try not to get too overly emotional.

The best thing any Karma holders can do right now is to take a deep breath and reflect on how this affects you personally.

If you lost some money then you should look at your own investment decisions and your own greed and learn from the experience.
If you bought some cheap Karma on the dumps just think about what you can do with that karma and how you can use it to help others.

This coin has room for more than one leader, more than one company, more than one buyout deal and more than one whale.

+1

[mouseman]

AGREED.

And onward we go!
..thanks Kos for your great effort in terms of time, commitment and own money. Class act!
 As more of us, not just the team, put the same effort into creating value for Karma, this experience should be repeating more often and gain momentum.
Karma has taken a great pace forward in the past few months, as has Lill.com. I wouldn't say this is a setback but more a great example of what can be done with an expanding community and committed individuals.
As a community we should be patting ourselves on our collective backs and take Karma to the next stage.
What can you do for Karma?

[Alphi]

2) i dissagree! kosmost has shown nothing but positive action regarding karma involvments. he doesn't like to kiss and tell but he has put a lot of $$ into it. all the things that sprung since he and us took over is mostly picked up by him. He should be the last person to point at. again that huge dump is just so freakish that it happened. but i can't possible allow others to think its inside trading. its just bad trading to sell so many coins to a coin that was maintaining the same volume before the sell and during the ongoing sell... if inside trading they could have easily sell 100 mills between each day for the many weeks this "fake deal" went on.

I am not saying that this is a case of insider trading .. nor am I saying that Kosmost leaked any information. Just simply saying that insider trading is still one of the possibilities here.

typically there are two forms of insider trading..

1) people who are on the "insiders" i.e. people involved directly with either party who are trading an asset. in a traditional stock market.. this kind of insider trading is legal but all trades have to be publicly declared and insiders are not allowed to trade on information which is not publicly available.

2) people who have inside information and are using that information to trade and make a profit.  these people do not have to be "insiders" (ie working directly with Karmashares OR the VC fund) to be found guilty of insider trading.. they just have to have access to information before it is released to market.


your comments about someone selling because they know that mintpal will drop the LTC market is an example of insider trading because this information is not publicly available yet.
another example of insider trading would be a VC fund knowing that their deal was unsuccessful dumping their own Karma before they make any public announcement or telling their friends who then dump karma before the information is public.

so as you can see Insider trading carries a very broad definition but the actual crime of insider trading is very specific to the act of profiting from the use of inside information and is applied differently in each country.

Since Karma is not a stock and since Karmashares is not a publicly traded company. insider trading rules may or may not apply in this case, but that doesn't mean that the accusations of insider trading are invalid just because Kosmost didn't tell anyone.

I'll repeat again what I have said about 3-4 times already, we simply do not have enough information to rule anything in or out and we probably never will so lets try not to get too emotional about accusations whether they are being made or received.


just an FYI

Trading on information in general[edit]
Not all trading on information is illegal insider trading, however. For example, a person in a restaurant who hears the CEO of Company A at the next table tell the CFO that the company's profits will be higher than expected and then buys the stock is not guilty of insider trading—unless they had some closer connection to the company or company officers. However, information about a tender offer (usually regarding a merger or acquisition) is held to a higher standard. If this type of information is obtained (directly or indirectly) and there is reason to believe it is nonpublic, there is a duty to disclose it or abstain from trading.[9] The punishment from insider trading depends on a few different factors. There are three main factors, which can be identified.

The significance of the trading – How much money was involved? How many people were affected by your wrongdoing?
Evidence – Anyone charged is innocent until proven guilty. The burden of proof falls on the prosecution. If no one “flips,” or if there isn’t a smoking gun, the prosecution has a harder time proving guilt. This may result in prosecution moving away from criminal charges, and instead choosing to pursue civil charges.
SEC violations – If SEC regulations have been broken, the department of justice may be called in to conduct an independent parallel investigation. Once the DOJ is involved, they conduct a very thorough investigation. If the DOJ finds criminal wrongdoing, they file criminal charges, and suspects may end up in jail.[10]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insider_trading#Definition_of_.22insider.22

[bitwho]

Yeah..... Only that i ment there is no inside trading in karma team


Mintpal removing the ltc was just an opinion of mine that would make it more possible than our own inside trading. As in your likely to be more right to call inside trading on mintpal then us. I dont have info on this as it was an hypothetical example. To be perfectly clear iI know nothing of such things in mintpal. Just a bad example that made more sense than accusing us


Again economically speaking inside trading is absurd compared to how much coins were dumped on such low prices. It just doesn't make it a good trading.

Also volume record shows that there was no pump and dump that gave anyone a gain of 2 billioncoin to be dumped out like that. It is extremly weird to see that dump. Last time karma was that low was over 5 months ago...  Who ever sold, sold at great lost as they have had to buy their coins at regular price. When was the lat time you remember karma to be at 30 litoshi? And when was the last time you saw some one buy over 4 billions.

I cant even start to try to make sense of such sells. I am still glad that no one is coming out crying about being hacked. Exchanges have not msged us to show any sign of hack attacks. No sign of orphaned blocks.

Just a wierd mystery. Either some one decided to just cash out carelessly. But even this doesn make sense. Before lill.com announcement karma has the same volume. 3-4 Btc buy wall at 1 satoshi for over a month. Steady ltc market of average of 300 ltcs a week. If they wanted to cash out they could have done it with much better profit.

That dump was just ... I dont know. Effing mysterious.

[Alphi]

Yeah..... Only that i ment there is no inside trading in karma team

I agree this is the least likely of the possibilities.

nobody on the "inside" of karmashares would be stupid enough to dump down to 14 litoshi.
if they were going to dump they would have done it back when Karm was 200-300 litoshi when I advised people to start taking profits.

[easteagle13]

How we all love to wake up and find KARMA skyrocketed.

So here is the reality.

Now, what we need are:

1. road map of things ahead.
2. The "road" to get there.

Those who would like to "get off" now are free to do so(sorry that you have to get off in a bad spot)
To those who would hang on with us and see the rest of the journey. Thanks to all of you. This will be a sadder ride without you guys!

Thanks kos for doing all that you can to try and make a good deal.
Kindly show us, the things above so that the community will realize why we have the "better" deal.

[easteagle13]

How I wish I have 5 BTC so that I can buy all those Karma in mintpal today ^__^.

Guys! consider this for a moment.

If you're in kos position and you have 2.5M$ offer for lill.com
what would make you turn down the deal?

The reasons would be: It's because you

1. HAVE BETTER PLANS!
2. You see so much potential in it than 2.5M$, because of it's utility for karma.

Now, don't call that insider info. but if you have the bitcoins, don't let this chance of securing cheap coins from those who does not know what they are doing, slip away.

[Chargin]

I no longer see how Karma will help spread karma.  

This has been a very expensive, disappointing and valuable learning experience for me. I've held large amounts of Karma since April (ignoring some minor trading) and didn't sell it when it was logical to do so because I believe in Karma and believed in Kosmost. My Karma represents more to me than what I'd gain from selling it now even if I were to rebuy it in the future.

Kosmost, if you're still answering questions:
1. Why did you create Karmashares LLC, spend hundreds of hours on Karma and Karmashares LLC only to decide not to follow through with whatever your original intentions were now?
2. Will you continue to work on Karma or have even you given up on it? If so what are your actual plans going forwards?

I ask these questions with the understanding that you don't want to work on Lill.com.

Chargin.

[kosmost]

It is only important to those who are focused on price.

If someone can explain how this discussion is relevant to adding value to Karma I'd love to hear it.

[kosmost]

I no longer see how Karma will help spread karma.  

This has been a very expensive, disappointing and valuable learning experience for me. I've held large amounts of Karma since April (ignoring some minor trading) and didn't sell it when it was logical to do so because I believe in Karma and believed in Kosmost. My Karma represents more to me than what I'd gain from selling it now even if I were to rebuy it in the future.

Kosmost, if you're still answering questions:
1. Why did you create Karmashares LLC, spend hundreds of hours on Karma and Karmashares LLC only to decide not to follow through with whatever your original intentions were now?
2. Will you continue to work on Karma or have even you given up on it? If so what are your actual plans going forwards?

I ask these questions with the understanding that you don't want to work on Lill.com.

Chargin.

As you noted in the last sentence, the questions depend on the validity of "kosmost doesn't want to work on Lill.com" (to paraphrase), which of course is untrue and unfounded. Please rephrase the questions with the assumption that nothing has changed.

(btw, where do you get the idea that I don't want to work on Lill? Surely you don't think I just pulled it out of thin air?)