[ANN][KARM] Karma / ₭ / X11

[karmala]

Allow me to pose a question to the community, if I may.

As we discussed, we will focus on bringing Karma to unbanked populations in the Philippines
per http://karmashares.com/forums/index.php/topic,565.0.html

(Indonesia is also a prime target, as another member has pointed out.)

Please reply to this post with how do you think you can help make this happen. We don't want to be in a situation where the many are depending on the very few to make things happen. This surely can be a community effort. I don't mean the involvement of everyone in the community but I'm shooting for 2-5% actively working on something (assuming 300 members of the Karma community, including lurkers)

Being part of the Karma team does not presume activity, either. As most of the time we, the team, does what the community does (just talk without action). We need action now, not just pages and pages of text.

(This is the cold, hard reality. There is no beating around the bush.)

Anyone can come up with a plan. Hopefully, we can discover the plan together. My concern now (from my experiences with Karma) is "who will do the work to make it happen?"

I don't want to present a plan and be one of 2 people doing actual work to make it happen. We have only to take a look at the vast quantity of un-touched tasks on the Karmashares forum (even those that are assigned to specific people) to see a little of what I am talking about. Of course, after I began to see that people didn't want to be assigned responsibilities (or let others know what they're working on), I stopped creating tasks.

Lots of us talk about what needs to be done, but about 90% of the time Karma calls for help are met with radio silence.

"Somebody else did something, now let's talk about it" = 100
"Something needs to be done" = 50
"Here's what we can do" = 25
"Yes, I can help" = 12
"I will do this particular task and here's how I will do it" = 6
"Here is what I have done" = 2 or 3, including myself

Lack of active involvement is the fundamental issue here. We need less talk (especially about market movements and price) and more action (equates to value, especially long term price increases).

Why would anyone want to be the only person doing the work, while others wish to sit around and reap the benefits of their labour?

No one?

Surely there must be someone in the Karma community that wants to actively help grow Karma?

I want to help. I am learning android app programming to be able to deliver usefull apps in the future. I think we need the mobile services in place before somebody in the Philippines can make use of a digitial payment/reward system.

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[karmala]

Allow me to pose a question to the community, if I may.

As we discussed, we will focus on bringing Karma to unbanked populations in the Philippines
per http://karmashares.com/forums/index.php/topic,565.0.html

(Indonesia is also a prime target, as another member has pointed out.)

Please reply to this post with how do you think you can help make this happen. We don't want to be in a situation where the many are depending on the very few to make things happen. This surely can be a community effort. I don't mean the involvement of everyone in the community but I'm shooting for 2-5% actively working on something (assuming 300 members of the Karma community, including lurkers)

Being part of the Karma team does not presume activity, either. As most of the time we, the team, does what the community does (just talk without action). We need action now, not just pages and pages of text.

(This is the cold, hard reality. There is no beating around the bush.)

Anyone can come up with a plan. Hopefully, we can discover the plan together. My concern now (from my experiences with Karma) is "who will do the work to make it happen?"

I don't want to present a plan and be one of 2 people doing actual work to make it happen. We have only to take a look at the vast quantity of un-touched tasks on the Karmashares forum (even those that are assigned to specific people) to see a little of what I am talking about. Of course, after I began to see that people didn't want to be assigned responsibilities (or let others know what they're working on), I stopped creating tasks.

Lots of us talk about what needs to be done, but about 90% of the time Karma calls for help are met with radio silence.

"Somebody else did something, now let's talk about it" = 100
"Something needs to be done" = 50
"Here's what we can do" = 25
"Yes, I can help" = 12
"I will do this particular task and here's how I will do it" = 6
"Here is what I have done" = 2 or 3, including myself

Lack of active involvement is the fundamental issue here. We need less talk (especially about market movements and price) and more action (equates to value, especially long term price increases).

Why would anyone want to be the only person doing the work, while others wish to sit around and reap the benefits of their labour?

No one?

Surely there must be someone in the Karma community that wants to actively help grow Karma?

I want to help more.
I can code most languages that are used nowadays.
I just do not like to work alone.
I need someone to work with me (like I'm currently working with learminer on the Karma game), because I'm also working on other projects and I need someone to exchange ideas and also to give me extra motivation when I'm not being productive (ask about the progress, etc).

ok, ptman. I offered that to you allready in the past. We need to port Karma to bitcoinj. That is the most important part. To do so, we must first create a proper documentation of the codebase which is in c++. Socoban has allready pointed us to the constants which are unclear. So, could you start with the documentation of the code on github? And I will ask you about it every single day and you explain it to me poor java programmer deal?

[karmala]

This is to continue the discussion about the PoC model. If I missed similar idea, please excuse me. I think that PoC model should be improved in some way. If it is possible, it should be kept, but changed. I suggest to raise the holding period to 6 months and 75 million coins (yes, raise). And also to assure that no exchange will take advantage of other people coins, I suggest that investment of 5 million KARMA should be send to dedicated address at least 3 months before any deal is announced or closed - we can discuss this term. This address could be same as KARMASHARES address - open for everyone to look at it. This way anyone can see which address is eligible for any profit. First see it at this special list and then look at the block explorer to see when the transaction was made. You know that I am strong supporter of the small investors and miners, but I have learned some lessons from the recent events. This 5 million coins can never be withdrawn and also can be used for Karma funding.

If such decision is taken, I am willing to update such list. Not holding the coins of course, just updating the list.

All that will read my proposal. Please focus on how to improve PoC model, not on should it be removed or not. The discussion is not focused on kill or keep PoC.

I support to both: raising holding period and the amount. However, I think 75 million is too much and propose 50. It is also a good idea that every poc holder becomes a shareholder by sending those 5 millions. I still dont know how this is compatible with private selling of shares however.

[Alphi]

No one?

Surely there must be someone in the Karma community that wants to actively help grow Karma?

organize a bounty system and make it clear what peoples rewards are and then you might get more takers.
I thought that was the whole point of establishing the karma fund.

right now people do not know who is doing what, or how much that will benefit them.

if you want to lead then you need the right incentive structure in place to enable you to do it effectively.
otherwise people will just continue to talk and do whatever they want.

i've put lots of ideas on the table.. all of which I would have helped out with but since nobody was interested and since I have so many great ideas to work on, I'm hardly going to donate my time on projects I have no expertise or interest in.

more than happy to share my ideas though. for the good of Karma ofcourse.  

[karmala]

I am also proposing a penalty model to be discussed and voted. You all know that I have big mouth and sometimes I don't think before I speak and because of this maybe I have insulted someone. This is why I find myself a proper guy to propose a penalty model . You all know that we have Code of conduct and everyone should stick to it, no matter who he is or think he is. Me, personally, I often dream that I am Yoda or at least Luke. But when I wake up, it seems that I can not move objects with a look at it. So, I suggest that if somebody insult Karma team member, a vote to be made in our forum. If the vote decides, this guy should be removed from profit sharing list for let's say 3 months. The vote can decide penalty only with at least 10 votes and 3/4 of the votes. This will mean that there are enough karmashare members that think somebody's behavior is not the Karma way.
Let's brainstorm on this. Shall we?

I find it unacceptable for someone to offend Karma team members. This story from past 2 days must never happen again. Most of the time these guys don`t even have personal time because of our interest. If we are not able to help them for any reason, it is imperative not to disrespect them at least.

we cannot not do something like this. This would be wrong. Nobody can be excluded from profit sharing because of what he states. Sorry but I am very much against a penalty model.

[karmala]

No one?

Surely there must be someone in the Karma community that wants to actively help grow Karma?

organize a bounty system and make it clear what peoples rewards are and then you might get more takers.
I thought that was the whole point of establishing the karma fund.

right now people do not know who is doing what, or how much that will benefit them.

if you want to lead then you need the right incentive structure in place to enable you to do it effectively.
otherwise people will just continue to talk and do whatever they want.

if put lots of ideas on the table.. all of which I would have helped out with but since nobody was interested .. well meh.. lolz.

I think the most pressing problem is the lack of coders here. Unfortunatly, we cannot magically create them by demanding it from the community. 

[Alphi]

I think the most pressing problem is the lack of coders here. Unfortunatly, we cannot magically create them by demanding it from the community.  

that and the fact that the people with "skills" seem to be the ones who don't have much Karma.. and the ones who have huge amounts of Karma are not willing or able to put their skills to use for the good of their own holdings.

it seems like 80% of the Karma is controlled by people who do not talk.. which incidentally is the reason why I don't mind if they dump..

keep on dumping and letting me buy those cheap coins until I have enough to make it worth my while to put huge amounts of effort into helping to grow the coin.

PS..

if I had a billion karma then I would be all over this coin with enthusiasm.... but since I don't have that many coins, I'm limited in how much time I can contribute. limited by how much it benefits others way more than it benefits me.

[Bierworst]

Can somebody tell me how much funds karma has? Because i think it is time to include 3th parties into developing and coding.
We are all biased so we might miss something or take the difficult route when the simple route was available. I am not a coder but i think there are enough coders who want to get paid to create something we maybe cant.
Nevertheless there are enough tasks the community can do, we just need a plan of execution. This way we can work organised otherwise it is a bit of this a bit of that and we lose control and when you lose control you lose interest or motivation.

[ptman]

I want to help more.
I can code most languages that are used nowadays.
I just do not like to work alone.
I need someone to work with me (like I'm currently working with learminer on the Karma game), because I'm also working on other projects and I need someone to exchange ideas and also to give me extra motivation when I'm not being productive (ask about the progress, etc).

ok, ptman. I offered that to you allready in the past. We need to port Karma to bitcoinj. That is the most important part. To do so, we must first create a proper documentation of the codebase which is in c++. Socoban has allready pointed us to the constants which are unclear. So, could you start with the documentation of the code on github? And I will ask you about it every single day and you explain it to me poor java programmer deal?

Holly crap! If you are gonna ask me about it every single day then I must start working on it right now! 

Where is the github?

[Alphi]

Can somebody tell me how much funds karma has?

Karmashares LLC controls somewhere between 8-12 billion Karma.

sounds like a lot but its really not that much compared to the total amount of Karma in circulation.

what are we up to now? 60 odd billion.. with 92 billion total.

[p4r4m0un7]

I am also proposing a penalty model to be discussed and voted. You all know that I have big mouth and sometimes I don't think before I speak and because of this maybe I have insulted someone. This is why I find myself a proper guy to propose a penalty model . You all know that we have Code of conduct and everyone should stick to it, no matter who he is or think he is. Me, personally, I often dream that I am Yoda or at least Luke. But when I wake up, it seems that I can not move objects with a look at it. So, I suggest that if somebody insult Karma team member, a vote to be made in our forum. If the vote decides, this guy should be removed from profit sharing list for let's say 3 months. The vote can decide penalty only with at least 10 votes and 3/4 of the votes. This will mean that there are enough karmashare members that think somebody's behavior is not the Karma way.
Let's brainstorm on this. Shall we?

I find it unacceptable for someone to offend Karma team members. This story from past 2 days must never happen again. Most of the time these guys don`t even have personal time because of our interest. If we are not able to help them for any reason, it is imperative not to disrespect them at least.

we cannot not do something like this. This would be wrong. Nobody can be excluded from profit sharing because of what he states. Sorry but I am very much against a penalty model.

Every state have different rules, but all LLC`s can and have to write down operating agreement, which includes if profits are to be paid, to who shall they be paid and etc. From what I have read and as far as I have understood with my level of english, actually we can. Penalty system will work only for Karmashares members and PoC model holders by the new model and only in Karmashares forum which is moderated and it should be. All sensitive discussions should be made only there from now on. And keep in mind that for every penalty there will be voting with at least 10 members and majority of 3/4. Of course we can up these numbers to 20 if you want. But from 270 shareholders only 10 participated in the last vote. So two few are interested to actively participate in any discussion.
I know that you are very generous in your way of thinking and doings like all Karma members and this is why I am proposing this. Cause I know you will never do it and you will be against it.

[pac]

Can somebody tell me how much funds karma has?

Karmashares LLC controls somewhere between 8-12 billion Karma.

sounds like a lot but its really not that much compared to the total amount of Karma in circulation.

O you and your 12
http://explorer.karmacoin.me/address/K8rMbDnZ7xX9VqBXmLwA7DCnYra1ftw3gE is the address Bierworst

[p4r4m0un7]

Can somebody tell me how much funds karma has?

Karmashares LLC controls somewhere between 8-12 billion Karma.

sounds like a lot but its really not that much compared to the total amount of Karma in circulation.

what are we upto now? 60 odd billion.. with 92 billion total.

This is public info - http://www.karmashares.com/explorer-v01 and http://explorer.karmacoin.me/address/K8rMbDnZ7xX9VqBXmLwA7DCnYra1ftw3gE
By this moment there are 8 605 754 645.083096 KARM or by the current price of 56 litoshi - less than 25 000$

[Alphi]

O you and your 12

it wasn't me.. google it.. people have been saying 12 billion for a while..

sure that address says 8 billion now.. but since I am not that close with Karmashares ... I don't know exactly how much was collected vs how much is there now.

socoban said:
Interesting, I thought KARMA price will explode immediately after the lill.com buy offer announcement. There was some movement up yesterday. The question is, why the hell is it not moving up fast? If lill.com will be sold for $1.2 than 1 KarmaShare will be worth $0.015, hence anyone can trade 1000 Karma coin for 1.75 Karma share, the lowest possible price for 1000 Karma coin will be $0.022. 1 million Karma will be backed by $22.

$22 = 2,5 LTC, hence on LTC market the minimal value will be 250 litoshi. So, this means, even if KarmaShares company crash, it will own $1,2 milllion to be paid to shareholders. This means Worst case, even if everything crash, and all the projects of KarmaShares will fail and all crypto world will colapse, your KARM will still be worth 250 litoshi. And since KarmaShares own 12 billion KARMA + it owns porjects in developement, the price should skyrocket to 1000+ litoshi immediately. Am I missing something? Or did already everyone in crypto tossed all his $$$ into crypto and have nothing more to invest?

https://bitcointa.lk/threads/ann-karm-karmacoin-karmasharesllc-now-on-cryptsy.302934/page-179

don't blame me .. I just repeat apparent mathematical mistakes made by other people  

[karmala]

I want to help more.
I can code most languages that are used nowadays.
I just do not like to work alone.
I need someone to work with me (like I'm currently working with learminer on the Karma game), because I'm also working on other projects and I need someone to exchange ideas and also to give me extra motivation when I'm not being productive (ask about the progress, etc).

ok, ptman. I offered that to you allready in the past. We need to port Karma to bitcoinj. That is the most important part. To do so, we must first create a proper documentation of the codebase which is in c++. Socoban has allready pointed us to the constants which are unclear. So, could you start with the documentation of the code on github? And I will ask you about it every single day and you explain it to me poor java programmer deal?

Holly crap! If you are gonna ask me about it every single day then I must start working on it right now! 

Where is the github?

ok, first you will find this discussion very useful http://karmashares.com/forums/index.php/topic,562.15.html
github is here: https://github.com/karmateam/karma

If you can port Karma to bitcoinj..., if you have the ability to do so you must join the Karmateam!
If you actually will port it to bitcoinj, I am sure that the community and llc will reward you for your efforts (also we need an oficial vote of course).

However, lets just start talking about the code and with documentation. I am eager to learn from you.

[bondi]

O you and your 12

it wasn't me.. google it.. people have been saying 12 billion for a while..

sure that address says 8 billion now.. but since I am not that close with Karmashares ... I don't know exactly how much was collected vs how much is there now.

Don't know where people got that number but I've always saw people saying about 8 billion and not 12....

[bondi]

As i understand it the lill.com website is meant to make people money (karma)  by searching in the engine, or adding reviews, shoutouts (whatever that is)  etcetera.  So to help people in indonesia the lill engine is THE method of getting these people some money.  Ideally, there would be an exchange directly form Karma to US$/IR$, but they will figure it out even if we do not provide such an exchange. These people are bitcoin adaptors already, even if they only know 'its worth something'
So a conversation in indonesia will go something like this : 'if you use lill.com, you can earn money.' 'how?' "You get karmacoin and you can convert that to bitcoin !'
Keep in mind that what we see as a few cents, for these people that sometimes is a lot of money.  There will be grandmothers in a jungle hut using a cellphone to use lill.com all day.
Of course the advertizers on lill.com pay for the karma that is given out, and karmasharesLLC keeps also a part of the pie karmasharesLLC of course donates part of the income to aid projects ( and advertizes with this).

So in my view there is only one part of the puzzle missing:  the payout in lill.com.  If that is running, word will spread like wildfire and we are in business

I like it.
Really good thinking...

[Alphi]

Don't know where people got that number but I've always saw people saying about 8 billion and not 12....

lol I just posted a link to a post where you quote socoban saying 12 billion... haha

maybe people.. including myself are remembering 12 billion instead of 12%.. I dunno... it was so long ago... but I do remember a lot of talk about 12 something....

[karmala]

Everybody,

please read this about a multi-coin fundraiser. I will not be able to implement the campain on my own. Especially as I am out of reach from the 13.9 till 6.10.....
 If you want that Karma will be part of it, you must step up and help me with this:

http://karmashares.com/forums/index.php/topic,604.msg3629.html#msg3629

I will provide a space on Karmafund.me with dynamic addresses and somebody from the team would need to collect and convert the coins but others must advertise it and make the pr needed. Who will step up for this?

[Bierworst]

Ok we are doing 3 things at a time again