[ANN][KARM] Karma / ₭ / X11

[TheLittleDuke]

Please join trello and telegram so we can brainwash you into loving karma and doing something for karma!


Hurry up and join trello. I think the room is giving free fruit punch!!

+1

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[TheLittleDuke]

Since we already do JSON based API work in PHP / Python for Givecoin we'd be more than happy to just donate that same work to Karma for free.

If you want to spend money please consider buying Google ad-words to build awareness for the coinbase.

-dvd

[bitwho]

Since we already do JSON based API work in PHP / Python for Givecoin we'd be more than happy to just donate that same work to Karma for free.

If you want to spend money please consider buying Google ad-words to build awareness for the coinbase.

-dvd

that's the spirit!

What kind of API service you have in mind?

[TheLittleDuke]

Since we already do JSON based API work in PHP / Python for Givecoin we'd be more than happy to just donate that same work to Karma for free.

If you want to spend money please consider buying Google ad-words to build awareness for the coinbase.

-dvd

that's the spirit!

What kind of API service you have in mind?

LOL -- here's something I teach my students (I do adjunct work for a couple of universities) -- it's a powerful technique for surfacing unmet needs...

1. That's a good question!
2. I guess it depends....
3. What do YOU think?

:-)

This is an especially good pattern to use when you're in job interviews -- you know those annoying times when you think someone is trying to trick you or trip you up.  Those annoying questions like:

"Which is better?  Java or .NET?"

1. Start by validating the speaker.  People like to know that they are smart ;-)

2. Obviously "it depends"

   a. What are you using today?
   b. What challenges are you having?
   c. Practically speaking, is there a need to consider an alternate platform?
   d. Why limit the conversation to just "either/or"

3. If you can, get the speaker to elucidate what's already on their mind.  For those not aware of this pattern they will wax philosophic, do most of the talking and by the end of the conversation think you're the smartest person in the room ;-)


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Joking aside...

We already have an API built that interacts with our vault system, but that's not a general purpose need.

Looking around we already have good examples to leverage, like the one built into the ABE explorer and the ones at exchanges like Bittrex et al.

I would think that having an authoritative source of "current pricing" much like the COINDESK index would be useful in helping members understand what the current value of their holdings might be worth.

But that's really a short lived need -- I would think things like "number of karma holders" -- transactional information -- if it becomes the coin of reputation then what does your Web of Trust currently favor?

Integration with WebCart would be top of mind for me...

In all sincerity...what do YOU think is needed?

I would approach this in SCRUM like fashion, take the needs, triage them, let a board of stakeholders decide the priority and then begin making assignments for "ANALYSIS -> IMPLEMENTATION -> VERIFICATION -> DISPOSITION"  

Not everything gets implemented and can be "CLOSED/RESOLVED, CANCELED, or WAIT FOR FUTURE RELEASE"



These are the simple states of a light-weight project management methodology I imported from my time at a large biomedical company and brought to Fortune 50 bank using the Atlassian Jira tool to handle the state-to-state transitions.   I've been using Redmine for https://doabitofgood.com so its basically tool agnostic.

This is how you bring order out of chaos...

Initially I would focus on a JSON based protocol allowing for a variety of implementations.  PHP and Python again are top of mind because that's what we're most familiar with...

-dvd

[perhan007]

Dear Karma community,

Let us take this opportunity to introduce ourselves and our company:

My name is Perica, I’m a 30 years old IT-lawyer from Zurich, Switzerland, working as a Legal Counsel for a US-software company and running an own company (“Swiss Cryptotech GmbH”) with my business partner and friend André. André has more than 20 years in-depth IT-experience and worked with several top 500 companies. Unlike other community members or self-proclaimed companies, we and our company do not hide behind pseudonyms. The company is listed with the commercial register of Canton Lucerne with our full names, address, a real office and a paid in share capital to the equivalent of 22.000 U$D:

http://lu.powernet.ch/webservices/inet/HRG/HRG.asmx/getHRGHTML?chnr=1004798147&amt=100&toBeModified=0&validOnly=0&lang=4&sort=0

What our company currently does and offers:
- Online-Shop offering products related to cryptocurrencies
- Buying and trading cryptocurrencies on behalf of larger investors, that wish to remain anonymous or don’t want to spend too much time
- Housing ASICs and other miners
- Accompany start-ups on their way and introduction of their own services into the cryptocurrency world (choice of the right corporate form, articles of association, website, online-shop, IP matters, employment contracts, immigration law/working permits etc.)
- Investments in selected crypto-markets.

Have a look at our website to find out more:
www.swisscryptote.ch

Due to our local focus, the only currently available language is German. Additional languages will follow.

The first currency we selected to invest was Karma. Our goal was to stay in the background and see what “kosmost” and the team would be able to create. Our portfolio includes 3.100.000.000 Karma and we have no intention of investing more as we want to prevent too much concentration. On the other hand, please note that to date - even during the crash - we did not sell a single Karma.

As we all know, the Karmashares project turned out to be unsuccessful, the future of Karma is uncertain and being passive was a mistake. We are rather sorry about that.
To avoid the project to fall apart and slowly die, Swiss Cryptotech GmbH would like to offer to back up Karma:

This would include getting all existing IP and similar rights and assign agreements and logins related to Karma and Karmashares (subject to a prior due diligence), doing the hosting of the relevant websites (including a block explorer), running at least one stable pool at our own costs, coordinating the further development of new features, services and products as well as investing some of our company’s money and offering our man power and legal/technical skills. We also plan to finance extensive advertising measures in social and classic media and organize meaningful giveaways.

Next to the mandatory Bitcoin, it is the intention to make Karma the flagship of our company. As we are currently negotiating with local companies about the implementation of Bitcoin-payment systems in their online-shops and/or placing Bitcoin-ATMs in their coffees/ bars and stores, Karma could be the next step in this development. Of course, the whole project would depend on the capacities and the enthusiasm of the community and (mostly) voluntary work as we are not able to spend 100% of our time on that. We cannot promise to make the turnaround but what we can do is make sure that no content simply “disappears” overnight and secure the long-term viability of Karma.
We have had enough of all the anonymous pseudo Messiah! It’s time to provide Karma with a real face and a strong basis.

Please, dear community, let us know whether you think that our offer could me interesting for you and we will see what we can do to make the vision happen.

Many thanks.

Best regards

Perica
Founder, Partner and Manager of Swiss Cryptotech GmbH

André
Founder, Partner and President of the Management of Swiss Cryptotech GmbH

[TheLittleDuke]

We have had enough of all the anonymous pseudo Messiah! It’s time to provide Karma with a real face and a strong basis.

Totally agree!  I'm not anonymous ;-)

http://linkedin.com/in/dvduccini

It's time for Karma to figure out what wants to be.  IMHO that should be in a lazer focused Non-Profit organization as the steward.

Personally I think it could be used for a total Internet Reputation system as envisioned in:

[bitwho]

Dear Karma community,

Let us take this opportunity to introduce ourselves and our company:

My name is Perica, I’m a 30 years old IT-lawyer from Zurich, Switzerland, working as a Legal Counsel for a US-software company and running an own company (“Swiss Cryptotech GmbH”) with my business partner and friend André. André has more than 20 years in-depth IT-experience and worked with several top 500 companies. Unlike other community members or self-proclaimed companies, we and our company do not hide behind pseudonyms. The company is listed with the commercial register of Canton Lucerne with our full names, address, a real office and a paid in share capital to the equivalent of 22.000 U$D:

http://lu.powernet.ch/webservices/inet/HRG/HRG.asmx/getHRGHTML?chnr=1004798147&amt=100&toBeModified=0&validOnly=0&lang=4&sort=0

What our company currently does and offers:
- Online-Shop offering products related to cryptocurrencies
- Buying and trading cryptocurrencies on behalf of larger investors, that wish to remain anonymous or don’t want to spend too much time
- Housing ASICs and other miners
- Accompany start-ups on their way and introduction of their own services into the cryptocurrency world (choice of the right corporate form, articles of association, website, online-shop, IP matters, employment contracts, immigration law/working permits etc.)
- Investments in selected crypto-markets.

Have a look at our website to find out more:
www.swisscryptote.ch

Due to our local focus, the only currently available language is German. Additional languages will follow.

The first currency we selected to invest was Karma. Our goal was to stay in the background and see what “kosmost” and the team would be able to create. Our portfolio includes 3.100.000.000 Karma and we have no intention of investing more as we want to prevent too much concentration. On the other hand, please note that to date - even during the crash - we did not sell a single Karma.

As we all know, the Karmashares project turned out to be unsuccessful, the future of Karma is uncertain and being passive was a mistake. We are rather sorry about that.
To avoid the project to fall apart and slowly die, Swiss Cryptotech GmbH would like to offer to back up Karma:

This would include getting all existing IP and similar rights and assign agreements and logins related to Karma and Karmashares (subject to a prior due diligence), doing the hosting of the relevant websites (including a block explorer), running at least one stable pool at our own costs, coordinating the further development of new features, services and products as well as investing some of our company’s money and offering our man power and legal/technical skills. We also plan to finance extensive advertising measures in social and classic media and organize meaningful giveaways.

Next to the mandatory Bitcoin, it is the intention to make Karma the flagship of our company. As we are currently negotiating with local companies about the implementation of Bitcoin-payment systems in their online-shops and/or placing Bitcoin-ATMs in their coffees/ bars and stores, Karma could be the next step in this development. Of course, the whole project would depend on the capacities and the enthusiasm of the community and (mostly) voluntary work as we are not able to spend 100% of our time on that. We cannot promise to make the turnaround but what we can do is make sure that no content simply “disappears” overnight and secure the long-term viability of Karma.
We have had enough of all the anonymous pseudo Messiah! It’s time to provide Karma with a real face and a strong basis.

Please, dear community, let us know whether you think that our offer could me interesting for you and we will see what we can do to make the vision happen.

Many thanks.

Best regards

Perica
Founder, Partner and Manager of Swiss Cryptotech GmbH

André
Founder, Partner and President of the Management of Swiss Cryptotech GmbH

You have both brought up some good points. Excited to see both of these offers.

What we learned from our effort to make something of the LLC is that people took those effort as the only path for karma.

Why can't more then one projects give it a shot. Community should really thing hard about this now and start making some decisions.


i am ecstatic to see you finally get involved. i had a feeling your were up to something Perhan!!

[bitwho]

We have had enough of all the anonymous pseudo Messiah! It’s time to provide Karma with a real face and a strong basis.

Totally agree!  I'm not anonymous ;-)

http://linkedin.com/in/dvduccini

It's time for Karma to figure out what wants to be.  IMHO that should be in a lazer focused Non-Profit organization as the steward.

Personally I think it could be used for a total Internet Reputation system as envisioned in:

I tired to read your goals. I don't think i understand them well. but do i need to at this moment?

Except for us having to make a hard choice on who is best to run our site that our beloved Kosmost used to run, you really do not need our decision on how you want to use Karma. Karma use is not controlled by any of us. We just want to be able to have control of current services to make sure no one messes with them. Who ever this party is that will run this it will be on the consensus that they are doing to help karma community and they do not own them. If the community feels like they are not being used properly we deserve the right to have them back.

No one needs them to create a project with Karma. I dont know if anyone can stop anyone from creating a karma service. As long as your service is in good intention and not designed to hurt Karma coin image then i believe you will get the community support and thanks

[TheLittleDuke]

I tired to read your goals. I don't think i understand them well. but do i need to at this moment?

Except for us having to make a hard choice on who is best to run our site that our beloved Kosmost used to run, you really do not need our decision on how you want to use Karma. Karma use is not controlled by any of us. We just want to be able to have control of current services to make sure no one messes with them. Who ever this party is that will run this it will be on the consensus that they are doing to help karma community and they do not own them. If the community feels like they are not being used properly we deserve the right to have them back.

No one needs them to create a project with Karma. I dont know if anyone can stop anyone from creating a karma service. As long as your service is in good intention and not designed to hurt Karma coin image then i believe you will get the community support and thanks

I like the passion of this group.  That's good capital if you ask me!

Obviously if I wanted to or need to pursue a Reputation system without the current Karmacoin I certainly could and will.

I just think that it would be so much more rewarding if we made a party out of it ;-)

At the moment I have a ton of resources including servers, developers, a non-profit and a compatible Givecoin that I think in spirit supports the original tenets of Karma. 

I didn't get where I am by expecting that everyone will like me -- that's not important -- what is important is whether or not you believe I can execute to a plan.  Generally speaking most people do not like "management" -- but that is something this coinbase desperately needs at the moment.

-dvd

[p4r4m0un7]

We have had enough of all the anonymous pseudo Messiah! It’s time to provide Karma with a real face and a strong basis.

Totally agree!  I'm not anonymous ;-)

http://linkedin.com/in/dvduccini

It's time for Karma to figure out what wants to be.  IMHO that should be in a lazer focused Non-Profit organization as the steward.

Personally I think it could be used for a total Internet Reputation system as envisioned in:

I tired to read your goals. I don't think i understand them well. but do i need to at this moment?

Except for us having to make a hard choice on who is best to run our site that our beloved Kosmost used to run, you really do not need our decision on how you want to use Karma. Karma use is not controlled by any of us. We just want to be able to have control of current services to make sure no one messes with them. Who ever this party is that will run this it will be on the consensus that they are doing to help karma community and they do not own them. If the community feels like they are not being used properly we deserve the right to have them back.

No one needs them to create a project with Karma. I dont know if anyone can stop anyone from creating a karma service. As long as your service is in good intention and not designed to hurt Karma coin image then i believe you will get the community support and thanks

+1

TheLittleDuke is not a bad guy. I have tried to provoke him several times and he didn`t fall into the trap. Though I am not very happy about his lack of passion about Karma, I think it is very good to have someone like him with a different point of view. But we all know now that no one from now on should ever have total control and total responsibility of the core Karma services and Karma trademark. Maybe even if Kos agree, it will be nice of him to continue to hold the trademark, until final agreement is reached about how to split the holding of the Trademark to several community members. Step by step, all services will be running again, and all bad words will be forgotten, and I hope lessons will be learned. It will just take more time than we think. And no more big promises please.

[bitwho]

there is two things your both bringing to the table.

1. Helping out by taking over the services so everything can go back online
2. Plans on how to use Karma in your projects



This is my issue. While we are lacking the speed(as always) to find the proper party to step one. You're both more then welcome to bring your plans on how you would go about your step 2 plans.

I don't see how part one is important for part 2. that is what i am trying to get at.

I am sure the community will be extremely happy to see both of you bring projects to karma. I know i would be. As more the plans are reveiled the more the whole community would back your plans.

If it was my choice i would also ask Kosmost to bring back Lill.com. Only this time i do not expect anyone of us to "own" lill.com as we foolishly thought we did. I would only require some kind of legal proof that Karma would be lill.com's primary coin. Not expecting any pay out from lill.com at all. All i would love to see is a contract that karma coin will be used. That's all. Something that would prove that as we help him we will guaranteed to use karma coin. If he gains any revenue from lill.com it should be all his. No dividends or anything expected. No , %10 will go to support Karma. Well unless he wants to offer it himself.  


That's my point. The more projects get involved the better it is for all of us.

You all do not need to have control of Step 1. But you sure will have a major saying in any future Karma coins. In example : changing Algo. If we want to reconsider changing algo , then if you are part of any of this projects then you will have a huge influence in making that decision as it will affect your project alot.

[TheLittleDuke]

+1

TheLittleDuke is not a bad guy. I have tried to provoke him several times and he didn`t fall into the trap. Though I am not very happy about his lack of passion about Karma, I think it is very good to have someone like him with a different point of view. But we all know now that no one from now on should ever have total control and total responsibility of the core Karma services and Karma trademark. Maybe even if Kos agree, it will be nice of him to continue to hold the trademark, until final agreement is reached about how to split the holding of the Trademark to several community members. Step by step, all services will be running again, and all bad words will be forgotten, and I hope lessons will be learned. It will just take more time than we think. And no more big promises please.

Ahhh thanks p4r4m0un7 -- I almost feel a "group hug" coming on - LOL

Please do not misunderstand my seemingly lack of passion for Karma -- I'm not happy with where it is today but I am VERY excited about what it could be, with some fixes AND a sense of purpose and some semblance of accountability.

I'm totally open to the idea of a "community edition" of a purely transactional coin if that's what you guys want to keep doing.  I just do not think that a "miner & investor" centric value proposition is either compelling nor sustainable.

You're going to get tired of me saying this, but the coinbase must solve a problem that consumers readily acknowledge.

There are only so many VEBLEN GOODS in the world -- things that people value and hold because of the name -- even a Rolex watch offers utility.

-dvd

[Alphi]

You all do not need to have control of Step 1. But you sure will have a major saying in any future Karma coins. In example : changing Algo. If we want to reconsider changing algo , then if you are part of any of this projects then you will have a huge influence in making that decision as it will affect your project alot.

Influence sure but ultimately control belongs to the people who own the coins. because the people who own the coins are the people who own Karma and the network. in any network these are the people who decide by consensus which way the network will go.

people assume that Developers make all the decisions but in reality updating your wallet is completely voluntary so a community can reject any changes simply by not updating their wallets.

of course in the situation of a small coin, exchanges have the most power because that's where most of the coins are so they control most of the coins.

I agree with you that nothing stops these people from getting involved except for their own desire to have control first. to those people I would say... if you want control then buy become the largest stakeholder first then you have control.. if not then your idea of control is just an illusion.

[TheLittleDuke]

I agree with you that nothing stops these people from getting involved except for their own desire to have control first. to those people I would say... if you want control then buy become the largest stakeholder first then you have control.. if not then your idea of control is just an illusion.

My dear friend, I don't want to control Karma...

I want to set it free!

I have no interest in buying and rewarding bad behavior.  I will not enrich others in this manner.

My value is in the idea execution for a Karma that has a purpose closer aligned to its marketing hype ;-)

A promise fulfilled...

[Alphi]

This would include getting all existing IP and similar rights and assign agreements and logins related to Karma and Karmashares (subject to a prior due diligence), doing the hosting of the relevant websites (including a block explorer), running at least one stable pool at our own costs, coordinating the further development of new features, services and products as well as investing some of our company’s money and offering our man power and legal/technical skills. We also plan to finance extensive advertising measures in social and classic media and organize meaningful giveaways.

greetings Perhan and welcome to the discussion.

I hope you are aware that nobody has exclusive world wide rights over Karma. the Karma "trademarks" were only registered in America and this was a measure only to protect them from abuse by other companies not to exclude anyone from using them.

as for the other "services" and karma related assets.. you are most welcome to negotiate with Kosmost directly.

you are free to use the Karma logos, trademarks, names etc for any purpose you like as long as you do not try to exclude others form using them or use them to cause harm to the community. This has always been the case since the creation of this coin and I hope that everyone will continue to respect this into the future.

I know that some people have a hangup about having to own trademarks because that is the traditional business practice.. but in reality nobody owns the logos of the Bitcoin, Litecoin or the USD and that is what allows every company in the world to use them without hindrance or restriction.

EDIT: There are registered trademarks for Bitcoin, but that was done to stop opportunists from registering and abusing it.

you are more than welcome to build new services features and updates for the Karma network and related software.
Once built, it is the individuals who decide whether to use them or not.. this is a key principle of the free market and of any crypto coin..
All you have to do is make good products and services and people will naturally start using them.

So please do start making good products and services.. the I am sure that community will welcome you. I am also equally sure that nobody will try to sue you or try to hinder your business.

Alphi

[bitwho]

You all do not need to have control of Step 1. But you sure will have a major saying in any future Karma coins. In example : changing Algo. If we want to reconsider changing algo , then if you are part of any of this projects then you will have a huge influence in making that decision as it will affect your project alot.

Influence sure but ultimately control belongs to the people who own the coins. because the people who own the coins are the people who own Karma and the network. in any network these are the people who decide by consensus which way the network will go.

people assume that Developers make all the decisions but in reality updating your wallet is completely voluntary so a community can reject any changes simply by not updating their wallets.

of course in the situation of a small coin, exchanges have the most power because that's where most of the coins are so they control most of the coins.

I agree with you that nothing stops these people from getting involved except for their own desire to have control first. to those people I would say... if you want control then buy become the largest stakeholder first then you have control.. if not then your idea of control is just an illusion.

^^^ this goes with out saying in general. It is the community who decides the overall vibe. But the question is who are these people who make this community? 

Some one need to have control of the services access. Source code github account, reddit mods, facebook admins , twitter accounts , website admins, etc. these are all services that do have to have some kind of "authoritarian" control. While Karma is open source, its source code does need to be in the hands of trusted party. Like an email. there needs one person to open them first and then this person shares the info with selective few. These few people safe guard the safety of current services. From these basic steps we already see a special "class" of people. Therefore there needs to be some kind of different groups.

Especially with our community here. Since we are made most of miners and investors, we are more then likely to go in circles when we have to decide something. Even dogecoin, the "nicest" community finally realized that they can not get anywhere fast while the community goes around in circles instead of finding a fast solution. After being idle for over 3 months they decided to create a special group that focuses on making decisions. It took them less then a months to come up with AuxPOW. Something that they wanted to do ever since they got the idea from Charley Lee of litecoin. They declined litecoin offer and wanted to do it their own way. Before they create the group and tried to get the community choose , they were met with a community who spend time speculating against it or for it. Dogeteam went in circles because they tried to get all of the shibes on board. After wasting a long time and seeing their hasharate drop they decided its not possible to wait for all community to be %100 on it.

Being here with Karma for more then 7 months  i can tell you that it will be inevitable for such groups to form.This community will turn into two groups. One that does nothing but talk and the other who are active and willing to participate. Eventually the second group will become the ones who call the shot because they are the only ones with a voice/vote.

For example there has been less then 20 people who have voted between DVD and ROY to take over. I repeat. Important services of Karma have been voted by less then 20 people. I had to personally ask Komost to give us more time as i didnt think enough people have spoken. Say what you want , but technically these 20 are calling the shot on your beloved Karma right now. Eventually it will be those kind of active people who will become the new "karma team"  .... its inevitable.

We have seen it play out before. We needed Karma decision to be made and every time we brought them up here no one cared. Only some active 20 or so karmanians.  Eventually they were the only ones replying and voting but most importantly tried to help by doing tasks that needed to be done.

Here is an other example : Our main explorer went offline for days now. The ones we spend days asking services like Mintpal to use. I only saw a certain few people trying to find solutions to this. this is the kind of response the general community gives us.

here is an example that got a lot more people involved : The motion to remove POC. Not trying to open this can of warms but it was amazing how many prideful karmanians became active to this request. 

Also it is difficult to keep a focused discussions here due to so many people going off topic or trolling. Slowly sites like Trello and telegram and hopefully karma forums will be the main places important question will be asked. And most likely those active group of people will be the only ones sharing their insight and votes. So again it will be inevitable that these certain group will be the one answering and pretty much voting on any decision making solutions.

I have been trying hard to get as many of you on board of those sites so more of you can start getting involved and have your opinion heard.

Again there is an old solution when you're stuck with two kind of groups. That solution is : one party brings in the options and the other chooses the solution. This helps keeping balance between them. If party one creates on option to benefit them then the second party will not choose it. Also the first party will try to create options that the second party will not be able to profit anymore then everyone else.


So it will be invertible that certain "groups" of people will be formed because some solution are timely mater and like any big community it will be hard to wait for everyone decisions. 

[UrsaMajorisBeta]

I'm really glad about how things seems to be developing at the moment. This might be a rough ride, but if we group up we can make this possible. Now, I know that as a  translator I can't do very much, nor even promoting in light of the recent events, but hey, i just wanted to say that you guys have a lot of silent supporters that sometimes can't really be very active.  I understand every point of view, and as the chinese story tells, you all have the reason!
Here comes, indeed, the group hug

[bitwho]

Sorry for taking this long.I wanted to give everyone else a read before i posted my opinions

Dear Karma community,

Let us take this opportunity to introduce ourselves and our company:

My name is Perica, I’m a 30 years old IT-lawyer from Zurich, Switzerland, working as a Legal Counsel for a US-software company and running an own company (“Swiss Cryptotech GmbH”) with my business partner and friend André. André has more than 20 years in-depth IT-experience and worked with several top 500 companies. Unlike other community members or self-proclaimed companies, we and our company do not hide behind pseudonyms. The company is listed with the commercial register of Canton Lucerne with our full names, address, a real office and a paid in share capital to the equivalent of 22.000 U$D:

http://lu.powernet.ch/webservices/inet/HRG/HRG.asmx/getHRGHTML?chnr=1004798147&amt=100&toBeModified=0&validOnly=0&lang=4&sort=0

What our company currently does and offers:
- Online-Shop offering products related to cryptocurrencies
- Buying and trading cryptocurrencies on behalf of larger investors, that wish to remain anonymous or don’t want to spend too much time
- Housing ASICs and other miners
- Accompany start-ups on their way and introduction of their own services into the cryptocurrency world (choice of the right corporate form, articles of association, website, online-shop, IP matters, employment contracts, immigration law/working permits etc.)
- Investments in selected crypto-markets.

Have a look at our website to find out more:
www.swisscryptote.ch

Due to our local focus, the only currently available language is German. Additional languages will follow.

impressive. Great job!  

just like DVD , both you could help Karma community with you skills. If you really love karma as much as all of us i urge you to join trello and telegram so we can chat free from distractions. Also to avoid anyone trying to use this to profit in trades. 10 minutes ofter you made your post. there was a buy spike and 300 mills were remove from sell walls.  BTT here is funny!

i will post here openly this one time and break down your post and ask questions. Then i will wish we continue this conversation away from this thread. I tried to do keep the conversation here it with DVD but every time he responded he got few responses with negative content from others.

The first currency we selected to invest was Karma. Our goal was to stay in the background and see what “kosmost” and the team would be able to create. Our portfolio includes 3.100.000.000 Karma and we have no intention of investing more as we want to prevent too much concentration. On the other hand, please note that to date - even during the crash - we did not sell a single Karma.

As we all know, the Karmashares project turned out to be unsuccessful, the future of Karma is uncertain and being passive was a mistake. We are rather sorry about that.

I am glad you've decided to get involved now. Better late then never!

To avoid the project to fall apart and slowly die, Swiss Cryptotech GmbH would like to offer to back up Karma:

This would include getting all existing IP and similar rights and assign agreements and logins related to Karma and Karmashares (subject to a prior due diligence), doing the hosting of the relevant websites (including a block explorer), running at least one stable pool at our own costs, coordinating the further development of new features, services and products as well as investing some of our company’s money and offering our man power and legal/technical skills. We also plan to finance extensive advertising measures in social and classic media and organize meaningful giveaways.

Karmashare is scraped. here are services that Kosmost is looking to hand over:

1) explorer.karmacoin.me block explorer (on digitalocean)
2) karmacoin.me website
3) karmacoin.me domain
4) karma forums
5) trademarks
6) checkpointing server (currently hosted in linode.com)
7) seed node

Explorer , website and Domain
Since we spent a lot of times asking services like pools, exchanges, faucets , Coinmarketcap  etc. The block explorer must be in the same place as it is now. Under explorer.karmacoin.me. therefore it is important that we get the website and the domain back online. My point it that they need to redirect back to the same place.
Thank you for offering your help for these but i believe we have some one in mind already and maybe the steps are already being taken. But this person will help us safegurd these services and will not have time to work on them. I will PM you so we can talk and perhaps you can help us up keeping them.

Karma Forums:
i think the same person will take these over. We will be looking to find new admin for these forums. you're more then welcome to help us out.

Trademarks
the trademarks are a critical point. How does a whole community own the trademark? I mean technically there has to be an "owner" so this still need to be resolved. But at this time i personally dont feel comfortable neither you or DVD to have them unless you can legally prove that you are only safe guarding them and they belong to all of us. At this time we do not have any one for this.

Check point and Seed nodes
I believe these should go all together in the same servers as the first three. We should keep all under one roof. You're more then welcome to help us run these properly as i am sure we will be needing the professional help.

As you can see. We just want to get the services back up online as soon as possible. We appriciate all the offers from anyone but have to be very caution on who has full access to them. Will we get hurt if some one take them over and abuses the power? no we will just build new ones and hopefully the community will use the new ones. So they are not critical(except trademarks). But tons of effort was put on those and it will be easier to continue from them.

Next to the mandatory Bitcoin, it is the intention to make Karma the flagship of our company. As we are currently negotiating with local companies about the implementation of Bitcoin-payment systems in their online-shops and/or placing Bitcoin-ATMs in their coffees/ bars and stores, Karma could be the next step in this development. Of course, the whole project would depend on the capacities and the enthusiasm of the community and (mostly) voluntary work as we are not able to spend 100% of our time on that. We cannot promise to make the turnaround but what we can do is make sure that no content simply “disappears” overnight and secure the long-term viability of Karma.
We have had enough of all the anonymous pseudo Messiah! It’s time to provide Karma with a real face and a strong basis.

Please, dear community, let us know whether you think that our offer could me interesting for you and we will see what we can do to make the vision happen.

Many thanks.

Best regards

Perica
Founder, Partner and Manager of Swiss Cryptotech GmbH

André
Founder, Partner and President of the Management of Swiss Cryptotech GmbH

Perica. i am glad to see you showing interest and willing to help. You both seem to have some good skills that Karma can use at this moment. As mentioned to DVD you are urged to implement karma in you project. Pm me so i can get you on trello and telegram so we can talk. i got so many question and its hard to have them here.

One question i do want to ask here:

Do you think you and your partner will still want to collaborate and implement karma in your plans even if you are not chosen as the candidate to control the services kosmost is looking to hand out? or you will only help if you get  total control?
 
To me it seems like you want to start implementing Karma and since we need help your willing to offer help by taking over of them. help me out understand this better.

Cheers

Who

[Alphi]

For example there has been less then 20 people who have voted between DVD and ROY to take over. I repeat. Important services of Karma have been voted by less then 20 people. I had to personally ask Komost to give us more time as i didnt think enough people have spoken. Say what you want , but technically these 20 are calling the shot on your beloved Karma right now. Eventually it will be those kind of active people who will become the new "karma team"  .... its inevitable.

I agree but the decision to hold voting on the karmashares forums is also the reason why you are getting such a small amount of votes... if people weren't a part of Karmashares before it collapsed they are hardly likely to join the site now.

I am working on an block-chain based technology to further democratize crypto coins that does not involve signing up to yet another website.. but too early yet to give any details.
I agree the way things are done now is not adequate nor representative of the entire community's wishes.

We have seen it play out before. We needed Karma decision to be made and every time we brought them up here no one cared. Only some active 20 or so karmanians.  Eventually they were the only ones replying and voting but most importantly tried to help by doing tasks that needed to be done.

its not that nobody cared it is because there is information scattered across so many different places that it is hard for people (who often hold more than 5 different coins) to check up on every thread at every website. Further scattering information by getting people to sign up to even more websites is not going to help solve this problem.

Here is an other example : Our main explorer went offline for days now. The ones we spend days asking services like Mintpal to use. I only saw a certain few people trying to find solutions to this. this is the kind of response the general community gives us.

we have two block explorers.. this is the first I've heard of it. I don't sit on the thread 24 hours a day but at least the important announcements should be made here or in one central location.

here is an example that got a lot more people involved : The motion to remove POC. Not trying to open this can of warms but it was amazing how many prideful karmanians became active to this request.  

yep when people care enough.. even if they have to go out of their way.. they will make the effort lol

Also it is difficult to keep a focused discussions here due to so many people going off topic or trolling. Slowly sites like Trello and telegram and hopefully karma forums will be the main places important question will be asked. And most likely those active group of people will be the only ones sharing their insight and votes. So again it will be inevitable that these certain group will be the one answering and pretty much voting on any decision making solutions.

yes it is difficult but it is where most of the people go for their information.
this is also why we should probably hold off making any big decisions until we have a proper inclusive decision making process in place.

by big decision I mean, who controls the trademarks and major structural changes to the network like algo changes or change in coin supply etc. everything else, i.e. who controls which websites is really not that big of a deal and can be negotiated directly with Kosmost and other people who control those sites.

I think some people will be angry of Kosmost tries to sell Lil.com and pocket the money for himself but since I was not involved in that project it really is none of my business.. Ultimately the people who should decide the fate of LIL are the people who were directly involved in creating it i.e. Kosmost and whoever helped him to design and code the site.

to be honest with you.. I think what is really going on here is that some entities really want to control the Trademarks, the source code, and LIL.com. If all 3 get given to the same person with complete control and they mess it up then this community will cease to exist.. end of story.. no more rising from the ashes, no more rebuild..

people are only still here because they believed that Karmashares was a community project and community owned. if Karmashares was completely self interested and privately owned then I can guarantee you that most of the community members would have left a long time ago and the only person talking in this forum would be Kosmost and a few trolls... yes I know it looks like that now but a lot of the old guard are still here... and we ARE working on karma related projects.

I have been buying up lots of coins lately and working on my own projects and quite frankly if someone comes along and decides to exclude me from the network either by determining where I can use my coins or telling me that I can no longer use the logos which I helped to create then that will be enough to force me leave the community and not look back.

to be honest all this power struggle and control issues BS is what got us into this mess in the first place.. we should all be able to work together to make Karma a better economy for all of us.. not trying to carve up our own little kingdoms from the remnants of a once great crypto coin.

lets not forget that Karma was once one of the highest volume traded coins on mintpal one of the most successful crypto exchanges... our strength came from our sense of loyalty to the community and not from karmashares (which we all thought was community owned anyways) lets not sell ourselves short and throw the baby out with the bath water.

so to sum up.. generally I do agree with your sentiments and thinking.. I just haven't given up on the community spirit yet..  

[TheLittleDuke]

For example there has been less then 20 people who have voted between DVD and ROY to take over. I repeat. Important services of Karma have been voted by less then 20 people. I had to personally ask Komost to give us more time as i didnt think enough people have spoken. Say what you want , but technically these 20 are calling the shot on your beloved Karma right now. Eventually it will be those kind of active people who will become the new "karma team"  .... its inevitable.

I must openly agree with you because it it just and right -- we cannot let a tyranny of the minority choose for the silent majority.  A sample size of 20 is small even for a "small sample size" -- I would not feel right directing development with so few members weighing in!

Again there is an old solution when you're stuck with two kind of groups. That solution is : one party brings in the options and the other chooses the solution. This helps keeping balance between them. If party one creates on option to benefit them then the second party will not choose it. Also the first party will try to create options that the second party will not be able to profit anymore then everyone else.

It does not have to come down to an "either-or" -- I'm not suggesting that it does!  Life is not so simple?

One of my favorite quotes comes from the Canadian rock band "Rush" where in the song "Free Will" singer Geddy Lee sings:

"You can choose a ready guide in some celestial voice
If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice!"

That means "silence is compliance" - it also means that every decision has three possible outcomes.  Think about it...

I would tentatively propose that the the Swiss firm handle the "for profit" side of Karma while the USA based non-profit focus on the community and development of the blockchain for a purpose viz the "Internet Reputation"

Clearly the Swiss firm has an investment in the coinbase that I'm certain that they would like to monetize -- hopefully not at your expense!

Whereas the the USA non-profit has no financial stake in the coinbase and is thus more pure of motive.

It's a "YES IF" pattern solution!

Would you agree?

-dvd