[ANN][KARM] Karma / ₭ / X11

[Kennet_h]

Reverse split will not affect the dumping,  in any way.

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[bitwho]

Reverse split will not affect the dumping,  in any way.

It will not prevent any dumping or improve total volume. The market will decide that.

Reverse split will move us to satoshi range so next time some one dumps 350 ltc worth of coins the price will go from 50 satoshi to 30 satoshi. Not risk us to loose the Btc market when people dump.  Gonna be a hard time move outside 1 satoshi range with these many coins out there :/

[TheLittleDuke]

Reverse split will not affect the dumping,  in any way.

It will not prevent any dumping or improve total volume. The market will decide that.

Reverse split will move us to satoshi range so next time some one dumps 350 ltc worth of coins the price will go from 50 satoshi to 30 satoshi. Not risk us to loose the Btc market when people dump.  Gonna be a hard time move outside 1 satoshi range with these many coins out there :/

There are really good R/W examples of where this makes a lot of sense.  Here's a good commentary by the well-respected "Seeking Alpha" site -- does any of this sound familiar???

http://seekingalpha.com/article/1561812-when-does-a-reverse-stock-split-make-sense

In the investing community, few things can get an investor's attention faster than hearing the word "Reverse Split". This is typically because reverse splits are more often than not associated with small penny stocks that typically lack a profitable business plan. They are usually the result of a failure to create shareholder value and done out of necessity. The genesis of almost all reverse splits is a need to have a higher stock price so that a struggling company can sell more shares to stay afloat, or so that it may maintain its current exchange listing status. The major exchanges like Nasdaq and the New York Stock Exchange require that company's stock price maintain a certain price level.

Investors also often have a tough time understanding the simple math behind a reverse split. The reality and their perception often differ because while they often don't like the thought of their position size being reduced, reality is that the net value of the shares owned remains constant. Whether you own 1000 shares at a $1 dollar or 100 shares at $10 dollars after a 1-10 reverse split, the net value of your investment is still $1000 dollars.

Here are a few examples (I'm sure there are bad examples):

http://www.cnbc.com/id/42212417#.

Fundamentally you have to ask yourself this:

"Would you rather have a slice of the watermelon or the whole grape?"

-dvd

PS Full disclosure I have never purchase any Karma -- the ~1M shares we have today were donated freely to charitable causes.

[Vlad2Vlad]

In the stock market, reverse splits never work and they are always seen as desperation moves by dog stocks.

Why don't you people kill the inflation right now - stop the subsidy.  That's better than a reverse split.  It's exactly like a stock BuyBack.  It's a bit late but there's still about 20 billion more karma coins to be minted, correct?  So kill that via a simple code update.  A lot of top coins have done it - like NAUT, DarkCoin, MAX, etc., and it's a very smart move unlike a reverse split.

The other option given it's late in the mining cycle, is to put some of that investor money to work to buy back Karma Coins and retire them.  That's also like a stock BuyBack but this type will actually cost money, unlike the simple code change.

But given karma is so cheap, billions can be bought off the market and removed from the market forever.  If there are any wealthy backers of Karma this would be a very effective tactic short term and long term.

Regards...

[Chargin]

TheLittleDuke (dvd) and perhan007.

Please pm me the following so I can repost it here at the same time (so you don't copy each other):
.
.
.

Chargin.

Edit: Please note I edited the post above approximately 30 minutes after creating it.

I took a copy offline to work on -- give me a day or so to collect my thoughts and get back to you?

In the mean time let's see if we can't figure out what's holding a good part of the network back from catching up?

-dvd

Thanks for your pm yesterday. I'm just giving perhan007 some more time.

Chargin.

[easteagle13]

In the stock market, reverse splits never work and they are always seen as desperation moves by dog stocks.

Why don't you people kill the inflation right now - stop the subsidy.  That's better than a reverse split.  It's exactly like a stock BuyBack.  It's a bit late but there's still about 20 billion more karma coins to be minted, correct?  So kill that via a simple code update.  A lot of top coins have done it - like NAUT, DarkCoin, MAX, etc., and it's a very smart move unlike a reverse split.

The other option given it's late in the mining cycle, is to put some of that investor money to work to buy back Karma Coins and retire them.  That's also like a stock BuyBack but this type will actually cost money, unlike the simple code change.

But given karma is so cheap, billions can be bought off the market and removed from the market forever.  If there are any wealthy backers of Karma this would be a very effective tactic short term and long term.

Regards...

This issue of reverse splitting/coin reduction is always brought up whenever Karma is not having a good market price.

Your suggestion of buying billions and stashing it away is a good one. Provided that the investor really don't need cash flow.

Another practical, long term and beneficial to everyone is to create Karma demand. When we successfully create a demand. even the full 92B of Karma will not be enough. Because by then many whales will be holding dearly to their coins, seeing the market price is steadily climbing.

What Karma actually need, what the karma community need at the moment is COOPERATION. Profitable cooperation, no one would like to keep on spending Karma without seeing any prospect of gaining from it.

So what is the third option that can result in:

* Karma coins being removed from the market to help raise the market price?
* Karma community get a working capital for other for profit ventures?
* Creating flow of Karma (making it a real currency as it is designed to be)
* Create demand for Karma?
* Attract more talent to develop more Karma apps(voluntarily)?

In the next few weeks I will slowly bring up ideas for the whole community to think about. But as usual it will be in the spirit of brotherly cooperation... We will attain those five points above. On the other hand if you would choose to stay a silent investor or a noisy non investor, Karma will still attain them...HECK A LOT SLOWER.

[bitwho]

In the stock market, reverse splits never work and they are always seen as desperation moves by dog stocks.

Why don't you people kill the inflation right now - stop the subsidy.  That's better than a reverse split.  It's exactly like a stock BuyBack.  It's a bit late but there's still about 20 billion more karma coins to be minted, correct?  So kill that via a simple code update.  A lot of top coins have done it - like NAUT, DarkCoin, MAX, etc., and it's a very smart move unlike a reverse split.

The other option given it's late in the mining cycle, is to put some of that investor money to work to buy back Karma Coins and retire them.  That's also like a stock BuyBack but this type will actually cost money, unlike the simple code change.

But given karma is so cheap, billions can be bought off the market and removed from the market forever.  If there are any wealthy backers of Karma this would be a very effective tactic short term and long term.

Regards...

we could stop new coins from being generate at this high rate. but to what?   1000 coins per block? that is 1440000 coins per day. 518mill coin per year. but then it we would risk loosing miners. Who will mine us at that low rate? even at 1000 its still to many coins. ideally it would be 100 coin. than that would mean even less miners. Because the amount of coin already generated vs the new coins being released is very uneven

800 coins per block works well with 9.2 billion coin cap.
310 coins per block works well with 920 mill total coin cap
92 coins per block works well with 92 mill total coin cap.

[bitwho]

In the stock market, reverse splits never work and they are always seen as desperation moves by dog stocks.

Why don't you people kill the inflation right now - stop the subsidy.  That's better than a reverse split.  It's exactly like a stock BuyBack.  It's a bit late but there's still about 20 billion more karma coins to be minted, correct?  So kill that via a simple code update.  A lot of top coins have done it - like NAUT, DarkCoin, MAX, etc., and it's a very smart move unlike a reverse split.

The other option given it's late in the mining cycle, is to put some of that investor money to work to buy back Karma Coins and retire them.  That's also like a stock BuyBack but this type will actually cost money, unlike the simple code change.

But given karma is so cheap, billions can be bought off the market and removed from the market forever.  If there are any wealthy backers of Karma this would be a very effective tactic short term and long term.

Regards...

This issue of reverse splitting/coin reduction is always brought up whenever Karma is not having a good market price.

Your suggestion of buying billions and stashing it away is a good one. Provided that the investor really don't need cash flow.

Another practical, long term and beneficial to everyone is to create Karma demand. When we successfully create a demand. even the full 92B of Karma will not be enough. Because by then many whales will be holding dearly to their coins, seeing the market price is steadily climbing.

What Karma actually need, what the karma community need at the moment is COOPERATION. Profitable cooperation, no one would like to keep on spending Karma without seeing any prospect of gaining from it.

So what is the third option that can result in:

* Karma coins being removed from the market to help raise the market price?
* Karma community get a working capital for other for profit ventures?
* Creating flow of Karma (making it a real currency as it is designed to be)
* Create demand for Karma?
* Attract more talent to develop more Karma apps(voluntarily)?

In the next few weeks I will slowly bring up ideas for the whole community to think about. But as usual it will be in the spirit of brotherly cooperation... We will attain those five points above. On the other hand if you would choose to stay a silent investor or a noisy non investor, Karma will still attain them...HECK A LOT SLOWER.

not really price related. but when some one does dump hundreds of million of coin and price goes down by halve it is obvious why i and other come back and repeat this statement.

the reason a coin like dogecoin can pull of being so valuable with having more billion coin out side already is that they coin got distributed equally. from the get go they had tons of miners and once the price blew from 2 satoshi to 10 they got even a greater hype that never died for months. that meant more and more people joined them. Both miner and regular user base. they trully are the perfect defenition of what satoshi hoped for.

what i mean by this? well there was a high demand of both miners and investors. this mean that coin got distributed to so many people.   look here: http://bitinfocharts.com/top-100-richest-dogecoin-addresses.html  

there is 77 people who own 16b coin @ range of 100,000,000-1,000,000,000  
there is 787 people who own ~20B coins @ range of 10,000,000 - 100,000,000
next step ??
1,000,000 - 10,000,000   7322   0.79% (0.88%)    18,436,863,913 DOGE ------ 7322 people (well wallets) that own anything between 1 mil to 10.
next step?
100,000 - 1,000,000   34107   3.66% (4.54%)    10,344,006,447 DOGE  ----- 34k wallets!!! they have lees then 1 million coins. Imagine if they dumped some of their coin.. whoa a whole 1 satoshi drop in pressure.

That is one damn good distribution. It is hard for people to dump doge as they do not have tons of coin to dump.

And Karma?
there are people who own multi billions. soem weeks back some one mentioned they own 5 billion coin. and i believe them. there some who said they own 3. I myself have 400 mills. I shouldnt have 400 mills. that is too much for one person to own.

So unlike doge. the moment this coin stries to raise up , some of those billionares who bought at 10-20 litoshi can easily dump us right back down to nothing....


yeah sure, if we are mainstream and if there are 9 billion people on earth ... blah blah blah.... sure we can pretend that then its justifiable to have 92 billion coins. But the problem is now. and realistically speaking We should be happy to have as much user base of 1 million karmanians. therefore considering how baldy distributed we are then we have to accept the fact that no mater how hard we try there will always be +10B coins ready to be dump at each spike.  Making it impossible to break free of 10 satoshi prices. Don't get me wrong. i am not saying we will not spike above 10 satoshi i am saying that with in hours we will be right back to 1 satoshi or less.

You can all say price doesn't matter, mainstream is the answer blah blah blah but 24hrs volume is important to keep services secure. Who will invest on us when we have less then $1m market cap on average?



Reverse split is not going to give us any 24 hrs boost but at least it will prevent when this big whales dump over and over again. because just like people are comfortable to buy at 20 litoshi prices they will feel comfortable to buy at 20 satoshi price when the price falls from 130 satoshis.

reverse split will also help minimize the amount of people day trading us for profit. reverse split will bring in new bigger fishes as they will feel more secure to invest.



its fine. I got time. I can wait few more months. Can we all agree that if karma goes high and comes back to 1 satoshi or less , then we consider reverse split?  say 920 mill coins?

[Alphi]

So unlike doge. the moment this coin stries to raise up , some of those billionares who bought at 10-20 litoshi can easily dump us right back down to nothing....

For all the people who complain about the recent dumping:

It lasted only 2 hours and the price rebounded quickly and the dumping only happened after a significant rise in the price...
If I had have been awake at the time that the dumping started then it wouldn't have even lasted that long because I would have bought way more coins than I did.

people who buy at 22 litoshi have every right to sell at 44... no amount of reverse splitting or altering the algorithms will change that fact nor will it change the percentages that people hold.
a person who controls 20% of the coins today will continue to hold 20% of the coins even after a 1000/1 reverse split or a switch to POS. So of they decide to dump then their dumping will have the same impact on the market.

if you don't want people to dump then make it worth their while to hold onto the coins instead of endlessly looking for ways to sucker people into buying with smoke and mirror tactics. If you sucker people into buying with promises of change then they will eventually end up dumping when their expectations are not met. this is exactly what we saw when we switched to X11.. people expected a whole bunch of new buyers to come into the market.. not enough buyers came after the switch over so people started dumping again.

fundamentally, this isn't a problem of miners, or too many coins.. it is a problem of market confidence and supply vs demand..
there are already too many coins in circulation and too many different types of coins on offer.. and not enough people wanting to buy them...this is not something that changing the source code can solve.

I will give you a very clear example of what I am talking about.
If you go to the beach and you are the only person there.. do you complain that there is too much sand? do you measure the size of the beach and say "this is too big" or "too small"?
If another person comes to the beach then it is more interesting and fun because now there are two people.
If whole bunch of people come to the beach then it becomes a beach party.. and pretty soon everyone wants to be on the beach.
If the beach becomes overcrowded then people start complaining that there is not enough sand.
but seriously who complains that there is too much sand in the beginning?... nobody, because they all realize that too much sand isn't the problem.. its lack of people that is fundamentally the problem.

in response to other peoples suggestions that have been made:
cutting the subsidy completely and moving to a POS model only makes the people who hold vast amounts of coins even more powerful and more likely to dump and try to manipulate the market.
(I know that POS was not mentioned but the subsidy is already so low that it has very little effect on the market now. and the only way to cut it further without making the network hopelessly insecure would be to switch to POS)

if you want less dumping and less market manipulation you need get the coins spread out across as many people as possible. this means you need to do everything you can to get more community members to join AND try not take any drastic measures that will cause people to leave.

I really am shocked at how many people do not understand the concept of network distribution and how important it is, not only for security but for building value in the economy.

we need to focus less on circular arguments going round and round and more on the core principle of Karma.. building a community that rewards people for doing good. this is the only way the community can grow.. and when the community grows the value of the coins also grows.

I have been talking less and spending more time building software for the network and community... I hope that some of you can follow my example and are simply not talking because you are working on your own awesome projects.

[Chargin]

DOGE isn't particularly well distributed, it is widely distributed. The top 5 DOGE holders hold a greater percentage of DOGE than the top 10 Karma holders have a percentage of Karma. If Karma had the same number of users as DOGE I think it would actually gain a better distribution than DOGE.

I don't have any issues with whales, only people that try to manipulate the price so it spikes high and low. If Karma had more active long term market participants (or a few whales) that react, rather than force the market, these peaks/troughs would be cut off. Having said that, I don't think there are any Karma whales manipulating the price, otherwise it wouldn't have fallen to its current levels.

Overall Karma's distribution seems to be surprisingly good for now.

Chargin.

[MundoCrypto]

Hello, does anybody knows why the twitter tipbot stop working?

I have 10K Karm there and I'm planning a giveaway for the spanish speaking people to broad the reach of the coin. any help would be appreciated

Maybe the tipbot is off.

Anyway can you provide me a karma wallet address?

Hi!
My wallet address in the tipbot? it is/was KVvWBruR5ehrSS2D2v5LE9ooJckftLVSJt

The tipbot was created and maintained by http://www.reddit.com/user/UnekPL

Thanks a lot I have wrote him inquiring about it. Hope he replies

[TheLittleDuke]

In the stock market, reverse splits never work and they are always seen as desperation moves by dog stocks.

Why don't you people kill the inflation right now - stop the subsidy.  That's better than a reverse split.  It's exactly like a stock BuyBack.  It's a bit late but there's still about 20 billion more karma coins to be minted, correct?  So kill that via a simple code update.  A lot of top coins have done it - like NAUT, DarkCoin, MAX, etc., and it's a very smart move unlike a reverse split.

The other option given it's late in the mining cycle, is to put some of that investor money to work to buy back Karma Coins and retire them.  That's also like a stock BuyBack but this type will actually cost money, unlike the simple code change.

But given karma is so cheap, billions can be bought off the market and removed from the market forever.  If there are any wealthy backers of Karma this would be a very effective tactic short term and long term.

Regards...

Whenever someone says "NEVER WORKS" -- all it takes is one example to prove them wrong  -- go look at this I linked to for examples of why that statement is just naive :-)

The other option is a "provable burn" -- or we sequester the coins with a trusted third party.  Neither of them are very attractive.

STARTcoin did a successful reverse / coin-recall and is still in early days of rebuilding itself.

I think the optics on a 92B token system is really hard to convince outsiders that there is value.  Way too diluted.

A 1:10 split would in theory push the exchange value up and put Karma on others radar.

[TheLittleDuke]

I really am shocked at how many people do not understand the concept of network distribution and how important it is, not only for security but for building value in the economy.

I agree and going one step further -- I am really shocked at how many people do not understand that PRODUCTS must fulfill a PURPOSE so that CONSUMERS can acquire and UTILIZE it.

Karma is a product produced by miners.

That product is offered for exchange to who?  Investors?

Those investors do what?  seek profit.

How do they seek profit?  Manipulate or wait until someone else offers a reason to sell.

If you do not see that Karma is currently trapped in vicious downward self-fulfilling cycle due to its current focus on rewarding miners and investors you will race to the bottom....

"Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result"

-dvd

[socoban]

Same discussion about reverse split again and again.  Every time someone drops huge amount people think reverse split will save them, because they will be on BTC market. There are hundreds of coins in BTC market with non existing buy support. KARM has amazing buy support even after such huge value loss and delusion. It is  always one of top coins on LTC market by volume. When you check last week history, there were dumps almost every day, at similar time in one big sale. It is 1 person dumping billions of KARM. He dumped at least 3 billions KARM last week. He was dumping to price 22 litoshi, after yesterday pump he dumped only to 27. The only person able to this is someone who bought it before KarmaShares or mined it when it was extra cheap and there were 1 million KARM block rewards. It must be the very same person, which was dumping on 31.August. Since there was only 1 person knowing lill.com will not be sold, this person is Kosmost.

Forget economy, forget mining speed, forget total volume. Alt coin market is so small, than anyone can be a whale on some coin. The only requirement is to buy big amount cheap and pump it by lies.

[TheLittleDuke]

Same discussion about reverse split again and again.  Every time someone drops huge amount people think reverse split will save them, because they will be on BTC market. There are hundreds of coins in BTC market with non existing buy support. KARM has amazing buy support even after such huge value loss and delusion. It is  always one of top coins on LTC market by volume. When you check last week history, there were dumps almost every day, at similar time in one big sale. It is 1 person dumping billions of KARM. He dumped at least 3 billions KARM last week. He was dumping to price 22 litoshi, after yesterday pump he dumped only to 27. The only person able to this is someone who bought it before KarmaShares or mined it when it was extra cheap and there were 1 million KARM block rewards. It must be the very same person, which was dumping on 31.August. Since there was only 1 person knowing lill.com will not be sold, this person is Kosmost.

Forget economy, forget mining speed, forget total volume. Alt coin market is so small, than anyone can be a whale on some coin. The only requirement is to buy big amount cheap and pump it by lies.

Volume does not equate to Value ;-)

My vote for the reverse-split has nothing to do with the temporal valuation fluxes you all fixate on.

My interest is creating a better, more useful purpose for the coinbase that has a credible story to tell.

92B is a number few mortals can get their head wrapped around.

There's a story about an indigenous tribe who could only count to three -- it was none, one, two, three and "many"

Reset the number to like 12B and align the story with "Karma for every person on the planet by 2020" or whatever

-dvd

[p4r4m0un7]

Due to lack of connection I am not able to be active. And to be honest, I am not very excited about Karma ATM. Despite of my conn problems I have managed to chat with some Karmanians in my country and this is what we think:
Try to learn lessons from the recent bitcoin price drop. The investors are holding and recognizing crypto currencies as some sort of gold or token, but not as a tool to purchase goods. Did the acceptance of bitcoin in Newegg and Paypal increased the price? No. They are massively selling bitcoins to buy Alibaba stocks from IPO, cause it is more profitable to have stocks than bitcoins ATM. Why aren`t they using bitcoins to save money when buying goods from Newegg? Mmm? For a purchase of 550$ with bitcoins a 150$ can be saved. So, good luck with the Philippines affair. To us this proves that for now Karma should stick to it`s technical nature, as I have said many times (why no one is listening - I don`t know.). Just remember what I have said in March and Arpil about reverse split, X11 and PoS. X11 happened at August. PoS didn`t, but we don`t need it anymore. The supply of coins is really good now. The time for reverse split is gone with the X11 fork. We have missed the moment. Now is too late for this discussion. If somebody is concerned about the BTC market, he should remember what Mintpal have said about the removal - Coin has less than 0.2 BTC volume per week, for a period of 4 weeks. So if this community can not trade Karma for 0.2 BTC once in a month for a whole week, we definitely don`t deserve to be on the BTC market. So simple. ATM we are talking about 70$. Trade or die with our bags of Karma. I have always liked kosmost`s vision about all the things he wanted to achieve with Karma. Except chasing Philippines or whatever and selling lill. Lill was meant to be a fully integrated with Karma and become a whale search engine in crypto world, not to provide few bitcoins for 100-200 Karmanians. And this is still achievable. Our concerns are not about who will take core services, but for the total lack of vision. Our suggestion is to ask kosmost nicely, very nicely, if he is willing to share his vision about the developing of eyeQ, Hireplex, Wespond and of course Lill. And to provide estimation of money and time to achieve the goals. And to decide what will take to bring back on the table these projects. Again, today`s problem is not who will take the core services, but the lack of vision and achievable goals. If a vision and goals are presented and accepted well from the community, I am sure that more people will become active.

Good luck guys.  

[bitwho]

I really am shocked at how many people do not understand the concept of network distribution and how important it is, not only for security but for building value in the economy.

I agree and going one step further -- I am really shocked at how many people do not understand that PRODUCTS must fulfill a PURPOSE so that CONSUMERS can acquire and UTILIZE it.

Karma is a product produced by miners.

That product is offered for exchange to who?  Investors?

Those investors do what?  seek profit.

How do they seek profit?  Manipulate or wait until someone else offers a reason to sell.

If you do not see that Karma is currently trapped in vicious downward self-fulfilling cycle due to its current focus on rewarding miners and investors you will race to the bottom....

"Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result"

-dvd

People understand both of these well but no one here cares to do anything about more then suggest what other should do.


reverse split favors us only in cushioning the impact when people dump or pump.  Its fine. let keep ignoring the elephant in the room.
i am sure we will be able to attract a lot of people and investors while we have $400 daily volume with our coin. All the merchants/people will line up to get a slice of our pie


Who is going to help karma spread widely? the only 6-7 people who show up day after day for karma while the rest sit on their asses??

I dont just talk about reverse split all day. i am trying very hard to attract more and more people. I said i was done reporting real progressive work in BTT thread. therefore only a topic of likes of reverse split is something i will continue to bring up here.  Because we can not move forward easy while few single people have billions of billions of karma. %20 gain while dealing with billion of karma is a good chunk of btcs. They will keep dumping and buy low and recycle.

i got told the same thing before when we moved from 15 litohis to 1 satoshi. We don't need the split. We just have to work hard.. Only that no one really does work hard and no one help out spread the news or karma. and moving from 15 litoshi to 1 satoshi is not really a good progress. its a joke to be at 1 satoshi. 1 satoshi or lower are for coins that want to stay a hobby. something to have fun with $30.

if you want to be taken seriously then we must have a user base that can support 100 satoshis sell pressure.

How are we going to do this?  why everyone just speculates here all this pressure falls on me , east , chargin , ryan and few people in trello. Soon as i am in the talk it will fall also on shoulders of perica , andres and david.  That's it.  these are the people who are brainstorming to create future plans for karma. Do you think we will be able to get billion users easy that 92 billion coins would make sense?

We are not only stuck with bad distribution where whales stay whales , but also with lack of public help. I know as long we we have people fighting for this coin we will survive but i see us risking the BTC markets well before we even come closer to having 1 million user base.

I am not interest in help out investors or miners. I don't care. i want karma to stay relevant long enough to give us time to pick up momentum!

[bitwho]

Due to lack of connection I am not able to be active. And to be honest, I am not very excited about Karma ATM. Despite of my conn problems I have managed to chat with some Karmanians in my country and this is what we think:
Try to learn lessons from the recent bitcoin price drop. The investors are holding and recognizing crypto currencies as some sort of gold or token, but not as a tool to purchase goods. Did the acceptance of bitcoin in Newegg and Paypal increased the price? No. They are massively selling bitcoins to buy Alibaba stocks from IPO, cause it is more profitable to have stocks than bitcoins ATM. Why aren`t they using bitcoins to save money when buying goods from Newegg? Mmm? For a purchase of 550$ with bitcoins a 150$ can be saved. So, good luck with the Philippines affair. To us this proves that for now Karma should stick to it`s technical nature, as I have said many times (why no one is listening - I don`t know.). Just remember what I have said in March and Arpil about reverse split, X11 and PoS. X11 happened at August. PoS didn`t, but we don`t need it anymore. The supply of coins is really good now. The time for reverse split is gone with the X11 fork. We have missed the moment. Now is too late for this discussion. If somebody is concerned about the BTC market, he should remember what Mintpal have said about the removal - Coin has less than 0.2 BTC volume per week, for a period of 4 weeks. So if this community can not trade Karma for 0.2 BTC once in a month for a whole week, we definitely don`t deserve to be on the BTC market. So simple. ATM we are talking about 70$. Trade or die with our bags of Karma. I have always liked kosmost`s vision about all the things he wanted to achieve with Karma. Except chasing Philippines or whatever and selling lill. Lill was meant to be a fully integrated with Karma and become a whale search engine in crypto world, not to provide few bitcoins for 100-200 Karmanians. And this is still achievable. Our concerns are not about who will take core services, but for the total lack of vision. Our suggestion is to ask kosmost nicely, very nicely, if he is willing to share his vision about the developing of eyeQ, Hireplex, Wespond and of course Lill. And to provide estimation of money and time to achieve the goals. And to decide what will take to bring back on the table these projects. Again, today`s problem is not who will take the core services, but the lack of vision and achievable goals. If a vision and goals are presented and accepted well from the community, I am sure that more people will become active.

Good luck guys.  

people hold on to bitcoin because it is still on its early days. seriously. Bitcoin is still so new. Also price didnt fall due to alibaba IPO. There is a huge amount of whales who control bitcoin prices. The ebay news had some effect. Price went from 380 to 430. Which also prooves that Inside trading was in effect. all three bitcoin ,litecoin and doge rose before the ebay and Okcoin/bitstamp jointure. again. price of bitcoin now compare to last year is a big difference. So tons of people are holding on to it because technically they bout it on the rise. We saw tons of people using bitcoin to buy things when the price was $900-1000. 

its never late for reverse split. especially since we got like.. 5 services and 4 pools. thats all we got to worry to update 


I said it. Kosmost is more then welcome to bring back his project. only this time he should be more clearer on his intention. I dont want any kind of payments. him bring his project would give karma more things to be used for. I dont want to gain any dividents or payments from his projects.



The real problem karma is suffering is the lack of people getting involved and big investors. if we had this two groups then we would be flying up in charts. building structures and having the financial support.   

If the community really cares about this coin as much as they type here all they got to do figure our which group they are and join to help!

Are you some one who wants to help or are you some one who can support the people who want to help?

[TheLittleDuke]

Are you some one who wants to help or are you some one who can support the people who want to help?

I am both.  As well as potential investor with more than coins to prop up the (false) economy.  I have resources like permanent wallet build lab at a real office space near several universities.

I have vision for this coinbase that puts it in non-miners hands -- to distribute it to the masses -- based on its original intent and promises.  To make it a physical real-world tipping coin to socialize it out with waitstaff -- print pretty metal foil wallets that ALSO become collectors items.  Allow people to download the wallet or store them somewhere and then make the paper wallets ALSO worth something -- like a trading card.  Create a BOUNTY program for people to turn them in at vendors in the real world for exchange.

It's IDEAS like these that I can bring to a coinbase like Karma or Give.

But I'm not going to buy or beg or borrow to acquire the coins in its current form.

You have a GREAT name and an original mission that has become perverted and in-ward focused on miners and whales.  

Who do you think is going to win that battle?

The whales have essentially made slaves of the miners...

-dvd

[altcoingood]

Kosmost ressurected karma and he also killed karma...





Move along, dump your coins, I've dumped mine and am closing down whatever karma-related stuff i run. It was fun but never real.





Luckily I only lost about 2 btc myself (which was A LOT for me). Cheeers people.