[XMR] Monero - A secure, private, untraceable cryptocurrency

[binaryFate]

That's why I played it safe and got into Monero.

Most people in Monero are not in Monero to play safe, or to invest, or whatever people call it when they are in an altcoin for profit.

Monero has this very particular thing in altcoinland, that supporters are not there primarily for the profit. I know it's hard to figure, but it's true. Many early adopters are still underwater today (I am personally, and with no small amount); the core team, who are no random guys, are funding development largely out of their own pockets; yet Monero is steadily florishing since almost a year now and more and more people are spending time building stuff to make it more useful.

Personally I am in Monero out of fascination for the highly elegant technology, for the social importance of it, and for the community dedication behind it. Only once it has happened to me before, with Bitcoin. I can't speak for everybody, but I am confident it's a largely shared feeling around here. So please keep all your investment crap in other altcoin threads, that doesn't belong here. (At best, in speculation thread).

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[Brilliantrocket]

I'm invested in both Monero and DRK. I don't care who wins. In terms of potential profit, I actually stand to gain more from Monero, just because the DRK-XMR rate was so favorable when I diversified. That being said, why are Monero lead devs trolling Darkcoin? Are you guys fucking brain dead? Do you not realize how terrible that looks? If you guys spent half as much time working as trolling, Monero might actually be usable by now. This criticism applies to Smooth in particular. Get your head out of your ass bud.

I think "investing" is about much more than profit. I would not feel good investing in military companies and profiting via war/killing.
Likewise, but on a much lesser level, I would not want to profit from an instamined coin who has potentially serious security issues. Another moral issue that I stay away from.
That is an investment in a future failure and it brings the whole ship down with it and does wonders for destroying the image of Crypto.

So, one should not equate brain dead people with exposing fraud, security issues, etc.
I'm not gonna name call but what do you call those who associate themselves with that?

You should know that for something to be fraud, there must be deception. As I've stated before, the DRK instamine is well known. DRK has FAQs that address it. It's 100% out in the open. You can call it unethical, but ethics are subjective. There are those who would say that gambling is unethical. As far as security goes, nothing is 100% secure until we're all using open source hardware. Haven't seen any commentary on that far more important issue. (Suggestion: incorporate the development of an open source hardware storage device into the Monero objectives/mission statement as Skycoin has done. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=380441.msg10594612#msg10594612)

Monero has way more to gain by building itself up than by tearing others down. If DRK is built on a flawed foundation, as you seem to think, then it would follow that it will eventually crumble.

[wpalczynski]

I'm invested in both Monero and DRK. I don't care who wins. In terms of potential profit, I actually stand to gain more from Monero, just because the DRK-XMR rate was so favorable when I diversified. That being said, why are Monero lead devs trolling Darkcoin? Are you guys fucking brain dead? Do you not realize how terrible that looks? If you guys spent half as much time working as trolling, Monero might actually be usable by now. This criticism applies to Smooth in particular. Get your head out of your ass bud.

I think "investing" is about much more than profit. I would not feel good investing in military companies and profiting via war/killing.
Likewise, but on a much lesser level, I would not want to profit from an instamined coin who has potentially serious security issues. Another moral issue that I stay away from.
That is an investment in a future failure and it brings the whole ship down with it and does wonders for destroying the image of Crypto.

So, one should not equate brain dead people with exposing fraud, security issues, etc.
I'm not gonna name call but what do you call those who associate themselves with that?

You should know that for something to be fraud, there must be deception. As I've stated before, the DRK instamine is well known. DRK has FAQs that address it. It's 100% out in the open. You can call it unethical, but ethics are subjective. There are those who would say that gambling is unethical. As far as security goes, nothing is 100% secure until we're all using open source hardware. Haven't seen any commentary on that far more important issue.

Monero has way more to gain by building itself up than by tearing others down. If DRK is built on a flawed foundation, as you seem to think, then it would follow that it will eventually crumble.

Yes, but burning how many people with it as it crumbles?  And financially burning would be the least destructive outcome, what if there are serious repercussions due to compromised "anonymity"?

This could lead to people having their lives turned completely upside down and ruined by governments.

[generalizethis]

I'm invested in both Monero and DRK. I don't care who wins. In terms of potential profit, I actually stand to gain more from Monero, just because the DRK-XMR rate was so favorable when I diversified. That being said, why are Monero lead devs trolling Darkcoin? Are you guys fucking brain dead? Do you not realize how terrible that looks? If you guys spent half as much time working as trolling, Monero might actually be usable by now. This criticism applies to Smooth in particular. Get your head out of your ass bud.

I think "investing" is about much more than profit. I would not feel good investing in military companies and profiting via war/killing.
Likewise, but on a much lesser level, I would not want to profit from an instamined coin who has potentially serious security issues. Another moral issue that I stay away from.
That is an investment in a future failure and it brings the whole ship down with it and does wonders for destroying the image of Crypto.

So, one should not equate brain dead people with exposing fraud, security issues, etc.
I'm not gonna name call but what do you call those who associate themselves with that?

You should know that for something to be fraud, there must be deception. As I've stated before, the DRK instamine is well known. DRK has FAQs that address it. It's 100% out in the open. You can call it unethical, but ethics are subjective. There are those who would say that gambling is unethical. As far as security goes, nothing is 100% secure until we're all using open source hardware. Haven't seen any commentary on that far more important issue.

Monero has way more to gain by building itself up than by tearing others down. If DRK is built on a flawed foundation, as you seem to think, then it would follow that it will eventually crumble.

The sooner the better.

Saying it was an oopsy-mine is not the same as saying it was a fabrication intended to deceive people and the dev was actively trying to line his and his friend's pockets--which added to the linux only release seems like the most plausible story.

[Brilliantrocket]

Yes, but burning how many people with it as it crumbles?  And financially burning would be the least destructive outcome, what if there are serious repercussions due to compromised "anonymity"?

This could lead to people having their lives turned completely upside down and ruined by governments.

That's not something that you, or anyone in fact, can stop. People will do what they want, and face the consequences accordingly.

[farfiman]

You should know that for something to be fraud, there must be deception. As I've stated before, the DRK instamine is well known. DRK has FAQs that address it. It's 100% out in the open. You can call it unethical, but ethics are subjective. There are those who would say that gambling is unethical. As far as security goes, nothing is 100% secure until we're all using open source hardware. Haven't seen any commentary on that far more important issue. (Suggestion: incorporate the development of an open source hardware storage device into the Monero objectives/mission statement as Skycoin has done. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=380441.msg10594612#msg10594612)

Monero has way more to gain by building itself up than by tearing others down. If DRK is built on a flawed foundation, as you seem to think, then it would follow that it will eventually crumble.

I have searched the website and FAQ and didnt find anything about the instamine. If I'm wrong link me to it please.

[Brilliantrocket]

You should know that for something to be fraud, there must be deception. As I've stated before, the DRK instamine is well known. DRK has FAQs that address it. It's 100% out in the open. You can call it unethical, but ethics are subjective. There are those who would say that gambling is unethical. As far as security goes, nothing is 100% secure until we're all using open source hardware. Haven't seen any commentary on that far more important issue. (Suggestion: incorporate the development of an open source hardware storage device into the Monero objectives/mission statement as Skycoin has done. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=380441.msg10594612#msg10594612)

Monero has way more to gain by building itself up than by tearing others down. If DRK is built on a flawed foundation, as you seem to think, then it would follow that it will eventually crumble.

I have searched the website and FAQ and didnt find anything about the instamine. If I'm wrong link me to it please.

http://wiki.darkcoin.eu/wiki/FAQ#Was_Darkcoin_Instamined.3F

[generalizethis]

Yes, but burning how many people with it as it crumbles?  And financially burning would be the least destructive outcome, what if there are serious repercussions due to compromised "anonymity"?

This could lead to people having their lives turned completely upside down and ruined by governments.

That's not something that you, or anyone in fact, can stop. People will do what they want, and face the consequences accordingly.

You sound like a corrupt politician absolving himself of responsibility. Just because you can't make a horse drink water doesn't mean you lead him further into the desert.

[farfiman]

http://wiki.darkcoin.eu/wiki/FAQ#Was_Darkcoin_Instamined.3F

Thanks

[nachoig]

I'm invested in both Monero and DRK. I don't care who wins. In terms of potential profit, I actually stand to gain more from Monero, just because the DRK-XMR rate was so favorable when I diversified. That being said, why are Monero lead devs trolling Darkcoin? Are you guys fucking brain dead? Do you not realize how terrible that looks? If you guys spent half as much time working as trolling, Monero might actually be usable by now. This criticism applies to Smooth in particular. Get your head out of your ass bud.

Yeah, inexorably this leads to an annoying dispute and trolling. Although much of the critics against Darkcoin are valid, every day with this same subject is really tiring.

Just a remember about buying these coins for profit: Darkcoin and Monero are being pumped by an individual (Otoh at Darkcoin, and rpietila at Monero) or a small group of individuals . Maybe they are doing this just to help in the promotion of these coins, the volume of these two coins increased a lot in the last weeks, not just the price. So, be careful. Even they being well-intentioned and well-respected in these communities, we don't know how much and until to these rallies on prices will remain.

http://wiki.darkcoin.eu/wiki/FAQ#Was_Darkcoin_Instamined.3F

Block rewards says much more: 500 coins until block #4501, 56 blocks starting #4502.
http://explorer.darkcoin.io/b/A1nDbknep

[Brilliantrocket]

You sound like a corrupt politician absolving himself of responsibility. Just because you can't make a horse drink water doesn't mean you lead him further into the desert.

If the horse refuses to drink, what good is it? The strong prosper and the weak perish, regardless of your futile interventions. Such is life.

[generalizethis]

You sound like a corrupt politician absolving himself of responsibility. Just because you can't make a horse drink water doesn't mean you lead him further into the desert.

If the horse refuses to drink, what good is it? The strong prosper and the weak perish, regardless of your futile interventions. Such is life.

But you do not know which horse will drink until you get them to water--so we(those who give a shit about privacy) place facts (like water) out for the horses and let them decide.

[binaryFate]

http://wiki.darkcoin.eu/wiki/FAQ#Was_Darkcoin_Instamined.3F

Block rewards says much more: 500 coins until block #4501, 56 blocks starting #4502.
http://explorer.darkcoin.io/b/A1nDbknep

Plotted by time says much more (the diff adjustment being so wrong - supposedly by mistake).
https://i.imgur.com/dSe9cRz.jpg

[smooth]

You should know that for something to be fraud, there must be deception. As I've stated before, the DRK instamine is well known. DRK has FAQs that address it. It's 100% out in the open.

First of all, being buried in a huge FAQ is not "out in the open". Is it stated on the OP along with the coin parameters? Is it included in specifications page on the web site? Those are places where normally relevant facts and parameters about the distribution of a coin are stated. Answers: No and no.

Second, if this is all "out in the open" why do DRK supporters get so upset about it being discussed, attack the person discussing it (including claimed doxing, though I doubt that was accurate), go onto other coin threads complain about it being discussed, etc.?

Third, the DRK FAQ itself is little more than a vehicle for further deception:

1. It claims the instamine took place over 48 hours. In fact the main part of the instamine (>1.5 million coins) happened in under 8 hours

2. It claims definitively the coins were sold/distributed (and makes other unsupported statements) when in fact this is entirely unproven and in fact unprovable.

3. It offers no disclosure about some relevant events surrounding the instamine that cast a negative light:

a) Evan promising not to launch for a few days and then doing an ambush launch shortly thereafter with 2 hours notice.

b) That there was a "serious error" in the code during the first two hours of the launch, during which time >700K coins were mined by someone somehow.

c) Any statement about the goals or planned features for the coin was withheld until after the instamine was over. In order to have any reason to mine this coin during that time you would have to literally mine every single generic featureless coin launch, or simply be extremely lucky, which is implausible for any outsiders. In this way the instamine was effectively a premine.

d) Several cuts to the mining reward that were made later (including redirecting them to masternodes i.e. existing coin owners), increasing the relative size of the premine.

Ask yourself: why is it that every single thing that has ever happened before during and after the launch, as well as the subsequent supply of the coin, had the effect of decreasing outside participation and increasing share that benefits insiders? If these were a "mistake" or "accident" you would expect half to fall one way and half the other. Sorry, I don't buy this "coincidence"

Have fun with your instamined/premined scam coin, and go right on running it up as high as it'll go, just don't expect others to remain silent about it.

[GTO911]

Could you post the exact message they sent you (the relevant part), or the link if it was public?

It is contradicting their previous (non-sensical complete BS) stand on the topic.
Here is a conversation of fluffypony with them after their abusive deletion of a xmr.to related post: https://i.imgur.com/nOHaL5f.jpg

"It really does depend on the specific nature of the thread and post.
This post specifically discusses the technology behind darkcoin, not its value or potential in the future, if a post discusses the technology behind the privacy and cloaking mechanisms of a cryptocurrency then it's fine"

[smooth]

Hey smooth! Do you feel like you are being dragged through the mud?  I sure dont.

No sir I don't. I feel like I just shined a light in a dark corner and now the cockroaches are dashing around frantically trying to get back into the dark. No mud in sight.

[smooth]

Just a remember about buying these coins for profit: Darkcoin and Monero are being pumped by an individual (Otoh at Darkcoin, and rpietila at Monero) or a small group of individuals . Maybe they are doing this just to help in the promotion of these coins, the volume of these two coins increased a lot in the last weeks, not just the price. So, be careful. Even they being well-intentioned and well-respected in these communities, we don't know how much and until to these rallies on prices will remain.

Somewhat agree. However, rpietila has been talking down the price more than up recently, warning that it was going up too fast, was due for correction, and advised waiting for pullbacks to buy. I don't know how this relates to his actual trading activity though.

[Brilliantrocket]

You should know that for something to be fraud, there must be deception. As I've stated before, the DRK instamine is well known. DRK has FAQs that address it. It's 100% out in the open.

First of all, being buried in a huge FAQ is not "out in the open". Is it stated on the OP along with the coin parameters? Is it included in specifications page on the web site? Those are places where normally relevant facts and parameters about the distribution of a coin are stated. Answers: No and no.

Second, if this is all "out in the open" why do DRK supporters get so upset about it being discussed, attack the person discussing it (including claimed doxing, though I doubt that was accurate), go onto other coin threads complain about it being discussed, etc.?

Third, the DRK FAQ itself is little more than a vehicle for further deception:

1. It claims the instamine took place over 48 hours. In fact the main part of the instamine (approx 1.5 million coins) happened in just 8 hours

2. It claims definitively the coins were sold/distributed (and makes other unsupported statements) when in fact this is entirely unproven and in fact unprovable.

3. It offers no disclosure about some relevant events surrounding the instamine that cast a negative light:

a) Evan promising not to launch for a few days and then doing an ambush launch shortly thereafter with 2 hours notice.

b) That there was a "serious error" in the code during the first two hours of the launch, during which time >500K coins were mined by someone somehow.

c) Any statement about the goals or planned features for the coin was withheld until after the instamine was over. In order to have any reason to mine this coin during that time you would have to literally mine every single generic featureless coin launch, or simply be extremely lucky, which is implausible for any outsiders. In this way the instamine was effectively a premine.

d) Several cuts to the mining reward that were made later (including redirecting them to masternodes i.e. existing coin owners), increasing the relative size of the premine.

Ask yourself: why is it that every single thing that has ever happened before during and after the launch, as well as the subsequent supply of the coin, had the effect of decreasing outside participation and increasing share that benefits insiders? If these were a "mistake" or "accident" you would expect half to fall one way and half the other. Sorry, I don't buy this "coincidence"

Have fun with your instamined/premined scam coin, and go right on running it up as high as it'll go, just don't expect others to remain silent about it.

Perhaps some of those things might rise to the level of deception. Even so, the creator of a cryptocurrency can distribute it however they want. My opinion is that anyone outside of the crypto community will view every cryptocurrency, no matter the distribution as being premined. They didn't mine it, and a small number of people did, so in their eyes the entire thing is unfair. The nuanced difference between DRK and a "fairly" distributed coin won't register with them. So the entire issue is moot, imo.

May I suggest that the Monero core team hire others to disparage competitors, so as not to compromise the speed of Monero's development? You don't put your management on toilet cleaning duty, after all.

[smooth]

May I suggest that the Monero core team hire others to disparage competitors, so as not to compromise the speed of Monero's development?

Concern trolling much?

No one is actively "disparaging competitors" and we certainly aren't going to hire people to do it. We are criticizing an instamine/premine scam with mediocre technology. It doesn't even matter whether it is a competitor or not (a reasonable argument has been made that it isn't). Bytecoin wasn't a competitor of anything when I criticized their ninjamine/premine scam, for example. I don't play favorites.

[Brilliantrocket]

May I suggest that the Monero core team hire others to disparage competitors, so as not to compromise the speed of Monero's development?

Concern trolling much?

No one is actively "disparaging competitors" and we certainly aren't going to hire people to do it. We are criticizing an instamine/premine scam with mediocre technology. It doesn't even matter whether it is a competitor or not (a reasonable argument has been made that it isn't). Bytecoin wasn't a competitor of anything when I criticized their ninjamine/premine scam, for example. I don't play favorites.

Ugh, moral crusaders. Fine, don't hire them, the community seems to be doing that job well enough. But do prioritize your time. Anyone can be a righteous crusader, pointing out evil wherever it dwells. Use your time to code. Anyway, just make me rich and we're all good.