[XMR] Monero - A secure, private, untraceable cryptocurrency

[dNote]

How about all cryptonote devs and backers not act like pre-teens.

WAT?!?!? Why? Maybe their behavior is ahead of time and everybody will act like this soon.



dNote: You guys should really, really do these three things.

- Explain the motivation and greater strategy/vision, behind your various mostly non-sustainable commercial and community projects, around CN.

- Stop creating pretended neutral, objective community websites, projects or organizations around CN. With the intent to abuse them, to promote your projects, securing your information superiority around CN and preventing the creation of a real community around CN (you wont control 100% anymore).

Your behavior is harming CryptoNote-technology. It's already visible, many CN users and people interested in CN tech are refusing to work with you and/or don't care about your ideas/next plans for the tech dev, community development or the announcement of yet another coin, out of your CryptoNote-coin-generator. Most serious people I talked with just labeled you guys as crazy and not trust-worthy.

Open up and talk and exchange with the CN-users, researcher and devs. If not, nobody will care for any of your projects or work related to CN technology.

- Reevaluate your opinion about Monero. There is absolutely no reason for your aggression against the project or your activities to sabotage Moneros development.
At least accept Monero and be neutral.
No one is talking about cooperations or team members becoming friends and exchanging christmas cards. Just stop the bullshit. And use your resources and time for something positive.
Monero is the biggest CN coin, has a fair setup, is very open & democratic and is hurting no one. No valid reasons to hate. Last but not least, if you disavow or not, the whole CN eco-system and your own CN-based projects are benefiting from the software development and infrastructure creation that is done by The Monero Project.





This is my 100% unbiased opinion and 0% influenced by my decision to support Monero. Don't reply, just really think about it. If u really care about CN technology sooner or later you will see these three points are without alternatives, if you want to stay part of CN mid-term development & future.

... just unfair. As always.

1. Explain the motivation and greater strategy/vision, behind your various mostly non-sustainable commercial and community projects, around CN.

- explained many times, will do it  again- our ONLY project is XDN = duckNOTE = DarkNOTE. Motivation = launching new FREE economy >70% of emission in the very first to open it to free markets, to exclude the miners influence and eventually to implement PoS on the top of fair PoS.

2. The only websites we are working on are websites around XDN. And we will make lots of projects around/  Soon you will see the results.

3. All you statement is about XDN devs affiliation with CN devs and other coins devs. Again and again and again, how can you be such a Morono lovers, XDN devs are independent individuals cooperated for a long time, and have a long experience in cryptos, but not here on forums. Actually it took a quite a long time to understand your blaming when it initially occurs, some a parts of our team are still saying : whaaaat?
As  i can understand, according to your logic, all who are not a Monero devs, are Bytecoin devs. Sorry, we are not.

As for me - monero is a biggest bubble, because there is only speculation about it, blockchain is unusable with its size, IMO almost everything about monero seems terrible - unusable blockchain size (On average PC, it just can`t be a network node), block intervals, tx generation size,  fee size, no GUI after almost 1 year since start,  totally wrong way of development, looks like just no understanding of CN technology.

"software development and infrastructure creation that is done by The Monero Project. " lol you are confirming my words - XRM devs can`t develop the coin, because of low technology understanding, they just make some poor services around original source code, like closed source web wallets.
There is nothing that monero gives to cryptocurrency world, except the wrong way in understanding the new technology, such a pity.

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[5w00p]

... just unfair. As always.
1. Explain the motivation and greater strategy/vision, behind your various mostly non-sustainable commercial and community projects, around CN.
......
" lol you are confirming my words - XRM devs can`t develop the coin, because of low technology understanding, they just make some poor services around original source code, like closed source web wallets.
There is nothing that monero gives to cryptocurrency world, except the wrong way in understanding the new technology, such a pity.

YOU HAVE MYOPIA

[dNote]

YOU HAVE MYOPIA

no i am not.

[arnuschky]

1. You can research the XDN difficulty chart,  ask forum folks here about mining XDN since 1st block. Ask smooth, seems he liked XDN and mined it since first blocks and he can confirm that.

It is true that I mined XDN from the beginning and there was no premine. However, you will note that tacotime didn't claim a premine, he claimed an instamine. Now on that score I must still respectfully disagree with him and agree with you. An instamine generally refers to the case where difficulty adjustment doesn't happen kick in and an enormous number of coins are mined quickly at very low difficulty (for example, DRK, where 25% were mined on the first day or something). The XDN difficulty adjustment worked well and the number of coins mined at the beginning was more or less in line with the published schedule, so I wouldn't call that an instamine.

It is also true that one month for reward having is an extremely fast reward schedule. I'd more properly call that a "fast mine."  Finally, it is also true that the ducknote->darknote rebrand, which one might imagine was planned from the start, happened after a few of these reward cuts meaning the bulk of the coins had been mined by the time the somewhat silly meme branding that many dismissed (though I did indeed like) was taken off and the more credible branding added. I understand that you have claimed other reasons for this reward schedule, yet the fact remains that nearly all of the coins were mined before darkNote existed.

P.S. Various comments are made and opinions expressed on the forum. Is it really necessary to respond in such a hostile and defensive manner when you disagree with something?

P.P.S. Are you affiliated with bytecoin or cryptonote in any way?

I agree with this and can also observe smooth's observations. Mining difficulty was quite low in the beginning, and open to everyone (I mined some as I liked the silly theme, just as smooth ). Also observe that ducknote was announced after optimized miners were available [1]. That means that the bytecoin scammers didn't have an edge anymore, leveling the playing field. But yes, mining 80% of all coins in the first year is fast.

dNote, passionate or not, being hostile and unfriendly on the forum isn't an "inconvenience", it's just, well, hostile and unfriendly. Don't take attacks on DarkNote personally, as these attacks will happen more and more if DarkNote succeeds. It's putting a bad image on your coin in any case.

[1] http://da-data.blogspot.be/2014/08/minting-money-with-monero-and-cpu.html

[dNote]

1. You can research the XDN difficulty chart,  ask forum folks here about mining XDN since 1st block. Ask smooth, seems he liked XDN and mined it since first blocks and he can confirm that.

It is true that I mined XDN from the beginning and there was no premine. However, you will note that tacotime didn't claim a premine, he claimed an instamine. Now on that score I must still respectfully disagree with him and agree with you. An instamine generally refers to the case where difficulty adjustment doesn't happen kick in and an enormous number of coins are mined quickly at very low difficulty (for example, DRK, where 25% were mined on the first day or something). The XDN difficulty adjustment worked well and the number of coins mined at the beginning was more or less in line with the published schedule, so I wouldn't call that an instamine.

It is also true that one month for reward having is an extremely fast reward schedule. I'd more properly call that a "fast mine."  Finally, it is also true that the ducknote->darknote rebrand, which one might imagine was planned from the start, happened after a few of these reward cuts meaning the bulk of the coins had been mined by the time the somewhat silly meme branding that many dismissed (though I did indeed like) was taken off and the more credible branding added. I understand that you have claimed other reasons for this reward schedule, yet the fact remains that nearly all of the coins were mined before darkNote existed.

P.S. Various comments are made and opinions expressed on the forum. Is it really necessary to respond in such a hostile and defensive manner when you disagree with something?

P.P.S. Are you affiliated with bytecoin or cryptonote in any way?

I agree with this and can also observe smooth's observations. Mining difficulty was quite low in the beginning, and open to everyone (I mined some as I liked the silly theme, just as smooth ). Also observe that ducknote was announced after optimized miners were available [1]. That means that the bytecoin scammers didn't have an edge anymore, leveling the playing field. But yes, mining 80% of all coins in the first year is fast.

dNote, passionate or not, being hostile and unfriendly on the forum isn't an "inconvenience", it's just, well, hostile and unfriendly. Don't take attacks on DarkNote personally, as these attacks will happen more and more if DarkNote succeeds. It's putting a bad image on your coin in any case.

[1] http://da-data.blogspot.be/2014/08/minting-money-with-monero-and-cpu.html

Thank you, much appreciate.
" But yes, mining 80% of all coins in the first year is fast." - that is the Thing. That is what i am talking about. Idea of fair proof-of-work to run real economy. XDN emission curve was invented long before any of XDN devs new something about CryptoNote technology. Yes, idea of that kind of emission can be discussable, and someone may not like that approach. But DarkNote here is for real users and real markets, that kind of emission exclude the miners influence on network and gives a crypto markets an ability to run a real Libertarian Economy. Just like Milton Friedmans "helicopter drop" in some terms. Why should we wait for several years/decades to run it as we used to, why should we be scared of miners market manipulation in the long term perspective, instead of making a good base in the very first year? Eventually, why should we waste an energy with pure PoW, instead of using energy efficient PoW/PoS scheme, but based on fair PoW initial supply. And you know, after some years keeping low - near Zero fees is laid inside DarkNote, instead of Moneros extreme fees (in fiat terms). DarkNote is very friendly for instant micropayments and almost fee-free for Huge amount transactions, while any Monero transfer  is very expensive. Wait, what? Monero transfer is expensive means big fees goes to miners, probably botnets, again and again.

Actually right now and even seems from the beginning of Monero diff jump caused by suspicious activity (probably botnets), you can see the situation that we have avoided with DarkNote emission curve.
Thanj you.

[nioc]

All my recent transfers from my wallets cost me less than a fiat penny.

[dNote]

All my recent transfers from my wallets cost me less than a fiat penny.

I will repeat. IMO Monero fees are extremely high, lets look:

Average XMR transaction: http://chainradar.com/xmr/transaction/bb902735207abdee5c8549133e9b0083e289813443b1be472ccba5acec3e49d0
Fee = 0.1 XMR

https://www.cryptonator.com/rates/XMR-USD/0.1

With current XMR rate fee = 0.02986642, almost 3 penny, man

[explorer]

All my recent transfers from my wallets cost me less than a fiat penny.

I will repeat. IMO Monero fees are extremely high, lets look:

Average XMR transaction: http://chainradar.com/xmr/transaction/bb902735207abdee5c8549133e9b0083e289813443b1be472ccba5acec3e49d0
Fee = 0.1 XMR

https://www.cryptonator.com/rates/XMR-USD/0.1

With current XMR rate fee = 0.02986642, almost 3 penny, man

My fees have been 0.03xmr.  You must be doing it wrong.

[G2M]

3 pennies per tx, or 1 penny per transaction ..

If we were ever to scale to visa levels, or let's even say 1 tx/sec then that's 86,400 tx's / day ...

So, by dnote's opinion, we're handing botnets anywhere from $860 - $2600, which is anywhere from 6.6% to 20% of our current daily volume. Actually 1 tx/sec and hypothetical, yet possible, .1 xmr fees we'd be right back at a 17 XMR block reward .. and I'm using 24 hours * 60 min * 60 sec * .1 xmr / 1440 blocks ... which should be about an extra 6 xmr max for every single extra transaction per second we handle. This doesn't make much sense to me, because usually you can only fit one transaction that large in a block. Which would mean that our individual block size would have to be 60 x larger just to handle 1 tx/sec with a .1 xmr fee. So we'd have block sizes of what .. 20 kb x 60? so is that 1.2 mb block sizes? So we'd have to add 1.728 gb to the blockchain daily? Guess we'd need some pruning then ..

At 2 tx/sec .. well I guess we're probably not gonna be able to handle that.

...in other words, not really a negligible amount.

dnote is making the statement that we're handing people money who only want to see this worth less, because their only motive is profit in currency that isn't monero, based on the opinion that Monero is mostly botmined for profit in btc or fiat.

The logic is not wrong, yet the difference of opinion persists.

edit: horrible drunken superbowl math fixed!

[Hueristic]

OK, Too lazy to setup irc for tiperino, So any Seahawk fan that I trust wants to bet with me on superbowl?

I have 700 XMR and will put it on my pats straight up. No lines no gambling adjustments just straight up winner take all.

Have a great SuperBowl day guys!

[kazuki49]

Have a great SuperBowl day guys!

the same to you sir

[shitaifan2013]

OK, Too lazy to setup irc for tiperino, So any Seahawk fan that I trust wants to bet with me on superbowl?

I have 700 XMR and will put it on my pats straight up. No lines no gambling adjustments just straight up winner take all.

Have a great SuperBowl day guys!

well I don't know much about handegg, but I'd be willing to bet 100XMR on the seahawks 

deal?

[jwinterm]

All my recent transfers from my wallets cost me less than a fiat penny.

I will repeat. IMO Monero fees are extremely high, lets look:

Average XMR transaction: http://chainradar.com/xmr/transaction/bb902735207abdee5c8549133e9b0083e289813443b1be472ccba5acec3e49d0
Fee = 0.1 XMR

https://www.cryptonator.com/rates/XMR-USD/0.1

With current XMR rate fee = 0.02986642, almost 3 penny, man

My fees have been 0.03xmr.  You must be doing it wrong.

If you browse through some blocks you will see, at least as of a couple weeks ago, a lot of txs with 0.1 XMR fee. This is mostly because people still haven't updated to the latest per-kb fee structure release, i.e. they're doing it wrong. Though I imagine paying one or three pennies per tx makes little difference to most people at this point.  

I think Duck/Darknote, on the other hand, has actually reduced their fees since launch. This commit pops up on github with quick googling:  

ducknote authored on Aug 26, 2014
Default and minimum XDN fee changed from 0.1 XDN to 0.001 XDN

With the cost of 1 XDN currently at ~30 satoshi, it costs a whopping 0.03 satoshi, or approximately $0.00000008 USD, to make a darknote transfer. This, imo, opens darknote up to a very cheap spam attack, if someone actually cared enough to spam the Darknote network.

There's a reason Monero fees were increased to 0.1 XMR under duress and subsequently have shifted to a per-kb fee structure - if there's practically no cost associated with making a transaction, then making a transaction becomes a vector to attack the network.

[Hueristic]

OK, Too lazy to setup irc for tiperino, So any Seahawk fan that I trust wants to bet with me on superbowl?

I have 700 XMR and will put it on my pats straight up. No lines no gambling adjustments just straight up winner take all.

Have a great SuperBowl day guys!

well I don't know much about handegg, but I'd be willing to bet 100XMR on the seahawks 

deal?

Well I don't know you but your a hero member with no neg so I don't see why I can't take your word.

Your on, GL and Just an FYI, I called Wilson as a most underrated probable great in his rookie year (When everyone else was Keapernick crazy) because he's one smart bastard!


gonna be a great game.

Anyone else speak up soon as I'll be leaving in an hour or so.

600 XMR left

[shitaifan2013]

OK, Too lazy to setup irc for tiperino, So any Seahawk fan that I trust wants to bet with me on superbowl?

I have 700 XMR and will put it on my pats straight up. No lines no gambling adjustments just straight up winner take all.

Have a great SuperBowl day guys!

well I don't know much about handegg, but I'd be willing to bet 100XMR on the seahawks 

deal?

Well I don't know you but your a hero member with no neg so I don't see why I can't take your word.

Your on, GL and Just an FYI, I called Wilson as a most underrated probable great in his rookie year (When everyone else was Keapernick crazy) because he's one smart bastard!


gonna be a great game.

Anyone else speak up soon as I'll be leaving in an hour or so.

600 XMR left

ok, cool. gl dude! 

btw. since I'm in germany don't be surprised if I won't be online directly after the game, pretty sure I'll fall asleep while watching.

[arnuschky]

Have a great SuperBowl day guys!

To you too. I wish they won't run it on a Saturday afternoon in the US, as that makes it the night to Monday for Europe and Africa, which is just very inconvenient. Why not Saturday afternoon?

[forevernoob]

Have a great SuperBowl day guys!

To you too. I wish they won't run it on a Saturday afternoon in the US, as that makes it the night to Monday for Europe and Africa, which is just very inconvenient. Why not Saturday afternoon?

Agree 100%, will be watching the game by myself since everyone else is going to work tomorrow morning.

[G2M]

Though I imagine paying one or three pennies per tx makes little difference to most people at this point.  

Sorry, I didn't clarify the reason for my rambling.

Right here, what you said, was my point.

Perhaps, we should be asking dnote exactly why .03 - .19 xmr (pool payments, etc.), or one to almost six pennies is too much, given that I agree with you on this point, and acknowledging the fact that dnote was likely well aware, being an obviously skilled developer, that the block size would have to scale to an almost impossible-to-commidate size in order for the claim that 'the tx fees are too high' to be relevant.

dnote, i'm assuming you're still reading .. would you please enlighten as to why you think this is too much?

'botnet dumping' just doesn't seem to be the entire reason behind the claim ..

I mean I get that you're going for a 'free economy' model, but running your software and keeping network nodes up hardly constitute as free. There is a cost associated with your model, ecpecially when you factor in slippage due to buying into your free economy, and volatility associated with cryptocurrencies .. especially 'free' ones .. which by definition would have that much value as well. With a PoW, non-free economy, each watt burned to produce a token of value models more closely the existing world economy (or at least the one that existed ~40+ years ago ). In a sense, the value is forever 'pegged' to something physical and tangible, and re-enforced by the belief that it was there and will be there tomorrow.

So then I guess I should be asking dnote why you think a 'free economy' model would overtake the present economic model of burning watts for value?

How do you see a 'helicopter drop' giving birth to a 'free' 'libertarian economy'?

[Hueristic]

Have a great SuperBowl day guys!

To you too. I wish they won't run it on a Saturday afternoon in the US, as that makes it the night to Monday for Europe and Africa, which is just very inconvenient. Why not Saturday afternoon?

Yeah, that doesn't make sense. Idunno?

OK, Too lazy to setup irc for tiperino, So any Seahawk fan that I trust wants to bet with me on superbowl?

I have 700 XMR and will put it on my pats straight up. No lines no gambling adjustments just straight up winner take all.

Have a great SuperBowl day guys!

well I don't know much about handegg, but I'd be willing to bet 100XMR on the seahawks 

deal?

Well I don't know you but your a hero member with no neg so I don't see why I can't take your word.

Your on, GL and Just an FYI, I called Wilson as a most underrated probable great in his rookie year (When everyone else was Keapernick crazy) because he's one smart bastard!


gonna be a great game.

Anyone else speak up soon as I'll be leaving in an hour or so.

600 XMR left

ok, cool. gl dude! 

btw. since I'm in germany don't be surprised if I won't be online directly after the game, pretty sure I'll fall asleep while watching.

I'll be at casino for who knows how long so I will take awhile to pay as well. I'll be back sometime between tonight and Friday depending on how the Poker tables are treating me.

[arnuschky]

Have a great SuperBowl day guys!

To you too. I wish they won't run it on a Saturday afternoon in the US, as that makes it the night to Monday for Europe and Africa, which is just very inconvenient. Why not Saturday afternoon?

Agree 100%, will be watching the game by myself since everyone else is going to work tomorrow morning.

I envy you